NU Fans & Students Should Be Ashamed
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Win games. Simple. I sat through the last two in the best seats in the house and it’s tough to watch. I’ve seen nearly 90 free throws in 80 minutes. Nu has shot maybe 40%. Maybe. This is not a quality product.
Last year I sat through the games at Allstate and they were dreadful. I hoped for more but honestly the way games are being played and officiated makes them hard to watch.
Last year I sat through the games at Allstate and they were dreadful. I hoped for more but honestly the way games are being played and officiated makes them hard to watch.
A crap product gets a crap clientele. There's been very little entertainment factor the past few games, which is a shame because Oklahoma was a fun time. Performance and interest has been downhill since then.
You get what you ask for at NU. They have raised the admissions requirements at the school to such a level that you wonder if we have even less sports fans in the student body than ever before (if that's possible at a school like NU). Great.... we can boast about our average SAT score, but what does it do to the make-up of the campus?
Yep, for all the people that complain about the students, you reap what you sow. I bet over half the students couldn’t have told you NU’s colors before they visited or started to get their promotional material as a prospective student. Schools like Iowa and Nebraska have a built in fan base by the fact that they are the only game in town. What else is there to do for the states residents? They are breed Iowa fans and most never went to the school.
People want to complain, they should start with the Fat Cats that either don’t show to almost every game or give away to a clients that have a connection to the opponent.
The only way this changes ( on a sustainable basis) is to win and create a buzz. Even then it will be difficult as many opponents have more local alumni than NU. Even admissions is more difficult for local kids. Probably not a popular take, but Alum’s aren’t going to fill the seats. They need to attract local non alums by putting out a top tier product, not a good to average one. DePaul did it, but not until the late 1970’s when they got very very good. Before that they didn’t draw flies. The losing came back and once again crowds are sparse. DePaul has way more local students than NU and this still remains true.
omg, did you really graduate from nu? Yea, we are losing because the student body has a few more brain cells.
willycat was right..we need 5,000 more seats. lol.
fwiw, ncaa attendance is down. The experience of watching the game at home...whenever convenient...on a wonderful TV, for FREE is a much better experience on an otherwise cold night out.
Nah, students don't owe it to anyone to attend basketball games. They pay $60K/yr to get a great education and they also have a right to any interests they choose. Just because they don't attend sports that you care about doesn't mean they should be "ashamed." I knew plenty of students who had other passions and interests---theater, community service, music, culture in Chicago, having a quiet coffee with friends--and also plenty of people who were work-study or had jobs to help pay for rent, books, food etc....
last week this board was complaining about the screamer..Now its complaining about students that arent interested in watching blowouts for the last 2 years.
At least screamer is at the game.
At least screamer is at the game.
Lot of Go Hawks chants yesterday, Guess it's time to cut the seating by another couple of thousand. Lot of empty seats behind the TV guys yesterday. Wonder why?
Let's not overly-simplify and snub our mighty NU noses at how these bases were built. Yes, there's an aspect of "build it and they will come." However, these schools were smart enough to regularly reach out and cultivate a wide fan base for decades.
How long has NU barely paid attention to even Evanston or the north shore, much less the Chicago area or even the northern part of the state? Yes, the school has desperately needed to reach out AND INVEST IN a wider market for a long time.
Thank goodness that mindset has begun to change. However, to Willy's point, the new WR and its ticket policies don't exactly scream "Com' on!! Everybody jump on board!!"
Willy, if you're going to talk about the crowd then we need to talk about those haircuts on the Iowa fans behind the Iowa bench. Hoo boy was that a step back in time. The Iowa women are lovely but the men have to stop watching reruns of Mayberry RFD, it's messing with their mojo. I thought any second a young Burt Reynolds was going to paddle by in a canoe with his crossbow.
Gee didn't notice the Io-a guys. Just wondering how many tickets a school has to make available to the visitors. Sure were a lot of Io-a folks behind and near their bench.
I am one of the few here that is not a NU alum. That is exactly the issue. Go to the Iowa/ Nebby board and I bet well over half didn’t attend the school but live in the state. I have no idea what outreach they have done or haven’t done, but even in Illinois there are plenty of fans of that school for one reason and one reason only- it is the State school. It’s not like we are inundated with Illinois marketing up here in the northern portion of the state. We have to step up our local marketing as the Chicago’s Big Ten team isn’t exactly a new fresh moniker.
I would like to understand what you would change on the ticket policies? What is preventing the casual local fan from attending? There isn’t a bad seat in the house, yet for every game opposition fans grab up the unused tickets. It certainly isn’t cost, as these seats are cheaper than just about anything available at other Big schools. What game have NU fans been shut out of that they couldn’t get a good seat at a reasonable price? In many games you can get seats at or below face value. What do people need to see to stop complaining and jump on board? Free tickets and Wilson Club access?
those wilson guys are more entertained back in the club. Im in 108 and it looked like a party back there. Until they close the club during the game, there will be no incentive to come down to their seats. But that is unlikely since they paid big bucks to wine and dine.
So get used to all the midcourt seats staying empty.
There is definitely some truth to this. Iowa fans are advocating replacing 15,400-seat Carver Hawkeye Arena with something more in the ballpark of 10,000 seats--largely because of attendance problems and a tepid home court environment. When I was growing up in Iowa in the 1970s to early 1980s, every game was packed because your only other option was to listen on the radio. My family drove an hour each way (not counting time getting in and out of the parking lot) for every home game, including on weeknights and in terrible weather. Other viewing options today create a different dynamic. Not sure what the solution is.
When I coached AYSO the NU women's soccer coach gave a talk and then invited us to a game. She explained her reality thusly. When her team travels to another Big Ten school for a game they are one of the top two or three events in that town....whether Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois or whichever. So there's always a crowd and that crowd rabidly supports the state school.
For home games, NU competes for fans with a long, long list of entertainment alternatives always offered by one of the most vibrant cities in the world. For non alums in Iowa City, U of Iowa sports are the Sox, Cubs, Bulls, Blackhawks, Bears rolled up with umpteen music venues tens of thousands of restaurants, dozens of museums....the list is endless.
On top of that, relatively tiny student population whose historic profile is national and so there's not much of an alumni base in the area from which to draw.
It's not an excuse, it's reality. Get the team into the top 25 year in and year out and that might change.
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Who's going to step up to criticize the football players who showed up for the Holiday Bowl presentation in the first half and then left at halftime of a tie game? I'll save my ire for the lower bowl purple-seaters who didn't show up, or worse, the scores of fans who gave or sold their tickets to gold-clad Hawkeye fans, including two rows of Hawkeyes just across the aisle from Dr. Jim in the Wilson Club. Can we expect an email from the ticket office, akin to the football one we received yesterday, explaining that those seat-holders have been kindly asked to relocate to a more comfortable setting in the upper reaches of Welsh-Ryan?
As another one of the few non-alums here, I agree with you that local interest is a ginormous issue.
But I disagree with you that cost isn't an issue. It's really GIVING AWAY my unused tickets, so any cost is a problem when this team isn't very competitive for the tournament ... which is historically always.
I agree there isn't a bad seat in the house, but how does a fourth grade kid know that?
What would I do? Outside of adding 2000-3000 more seats to the original arena plan targeted specifically for freebies, I'd work to find a demographic of Evanston, Skokie, Rogers Park, Wilmette etc kids and make tickets free and incredibly accessible to them and their families over a five-to-ten year period. Take the financial hit and give away 2000 seats to each game, and invest in the future.
2000 seats x $20 x 19 games = $760,000 annually ... NU can afford this.
I assume the same case could be made for a successful football program.
But that thought is even more pie in the sky with limited WR capacity. So on we go to another generation. The seats are sold but interest is minimal and the only market is X,000 NU grads every year with X% who don't really care ... another X% who don't stay in the area, etc.
Ok, that is something I could get behind for most games. The unused seats can be used by HS teams that are recognized while there. Have a day to invite entire conferences of players. Community groups etc. anything that keeps Illinois fans in Rantoul. The marquee games- NU will probably want to sell the seats because they can get a good price from the opposition versus giving it away. However, this is probably short sighted too.
Personally, I would rather see the Wilson club empty than full of Iowa fans. The only thing that will fill the Stadium with Purple is winning. Nothing else is a quick fix. Honestly, the lack of fan support is the most frustrating thing about being a NU fan. The rest of it is great (except that dump Ryan Field) . The fat cats that donate large sums should be pissed that other fans are sittin* next to Dr. Jim. Take the step to push these brokers to the top of the stadium.
It's almost like we shouldn't have asked for mandatory donations for seats in the lower level after our one successful season that followed 80 years of futility.
"Jim, we had a great season, but we need more fans at games. How can we grow our attendance?"
"I've got it. We charge them more to attend the games!"
(Full disclosure: I'm a fan of Jim Phillips and think he's done a great job as AD. But the decision to raise basketball ticket prices and demand mandatory donations for good seats while trying to increase attendance was absolutely boneheaded)
Oh, and the real people who should be ashamed are the folks on this board who try to dictate what experiences students should pursue while attending NU.
"Jim, we had a great season, but we need more fans at games. How can we grow our attendance?"
"I've got it. We charge them more to attend the games!"
(Full disclosure: I'm a fan of Jim Phillips and think he's done a great job as AD. But the decision to raise basketball ticket prices and demand mandatory donations for good seats while trying to increase attendance was absolutely boneheaded)
Oh, and the real people who should be ashamed are the folks on this board who try to dictate what experiences students should pursue while attending NU.
Why would you criticize Dr. Jim for this? What was the alternative? Keep the seats cheaper and subject them brokers managing them? Look at brokers and you can see the same seats for sale pretty much every game. As I said before, the fat cats have to sit in the seats for this to work, but i’ll Take them loitering in the Wilson Club with an empty seat versus some jackhole (sorry Waterboy) from Iowa sitting in them.
Students can do what they want. We had better attendance by students under worse circumstances. Completely understand if they are not into sports. Their prerogative not to go. But it seemed to me that the numbers were not close to attendance at earlier games.
The upper level had good attendance. Dr. Phillips chased the $. He sold the tix for most of the games. A buddy who had interaction with the Athletic Dept told they are mainly interested, correctly so, in the big fish who pay for everything. I am just disappointed that the empty seats were not given to folks. For the Illini game, my buddy gave his tix to a friend who brought his 8 year grandson. The kid was louder than the screamer, but he was so excited. He had the team memorized in moments. It was great fun to have him in our midst.
Being next to the kid reminded me of when I started with my kids 15 years ago. Seats and ticket packages were plentiful that it was easy to bring kids which helped solidify this non-alum as a fan. My kids are solid fans and love Thanksgiving b-ball and fball games when in town. I just do not see the chance for non alum fan development, other than winning, in the new arena.
The upper level had good attendance. Dr. Phillips chased the $. He sold the tix for most of the games. A buddy who had interaction with the Athletic Dept told they are mainly interested, correctly so, in the big fish who pay for everything. I am just disappointed that the empty seats were not given to folks. For the Illini game, my buddy gave his tix to a friend who brought his 8 year grandson. The kid was louder than the screamer, but he was so excited. He had the team memorized in moments. It was great fun to have him in our midst.
Being next to the kid reminded me of when I started with my kids 15 years ago. Seats and ticket packages were plentiful that it was easy to bring kids which helped solidify this non-alum as a fan. My kids are solid fans and love Thanksgiving b-ball and fball games when in town. I just do not see the chance for non alum fan development, other than winning, in the new arena.
First, increased ticket prices are a deterrent to non-affiliated fans who might otherwise attend a game. Our entire "Chicago's Big Ten Team" marketing campaign was geared towards attracting non-affiliated fans. That's difficult to do when you increase ticket prices and price those folks out of decent seats.
Next, as I've said before, I feel like the required 'donations' discourage loyal season ticket holders from renewing season tickets. My family had season tickets for 20+ years and held seats just behind the visitor's bench. Our ticket rep told us we were required to make a $5,000 'donation' to keep similar seats in the new stadium. When we decided not to pay that amount, we were offered seats in the corner of the upper deck. The value just wasn't there, and we decided not to renew our season tickets. I'd hazard to guess that we weren't the only STH's who decided against renewing season tickets due to the increased price.
Increased ticket prices also encourage STH's to sell tickets on secondary markets. If I pay $5,500 for tickets (donation+ticket price) and can't make a game, I'm much more likely to sell the tickets to high profile games in an attempt to subsidize the considerable cost of the seats. If I paid $400 (ticket price only) for the same seats, I'd be much less inclined to sell those tickets on the secondary market.
A program in our position should be focused on building our fanbase. That starts with getting young, unaffiliated locals in the building so they can develop an appreciation for the team, sport, and school. You mention that having 'fat cats' in the Wilson Club with empty seats is better than those same STH's selling their seats to visiting fans, and I agree. But that niche, along with the rest of our STH's, represents quite a small population of people. Considering how well the team is performing, I don't think we have enough people in the Chicago area who are A) affiliated with the school in some way B) potentially interested in purchasing season tickets and C) available to attend a majority of the home games to fill our brand new stadium consistently, so we need to focus on attracting non-affiliated fans who will consistently cheer for the Cats. That's really difficult to do when you increase barriers to entry.
Perhaps most importantly, it's a dumb, dumb, dumb idea to raise prices when you are already struggling to fill the stadium, and it's hard to fill the stadium when the team isn't consistently successful. As another poster said in this thread, winning is everything. The combination of increased prices and average-to-below-average performances will only hurt attendance in the long run. We need to be consistently successful before we think at all about raising ticket prices.
You said it, the only solution is winning consistently over time and building a fan base. You can't market a losing team. We're closer than we've ever been but it's still a long haul and takes time.
I agree that what we need are local STHs, whether alums or no, sitting in the 100s who will be in their seats for the home games - possibly even making noise but let's not get crazy here. And the "donations" definitely price folks out of interest in making the effort. That extra $5k priced me into the 200s and I've only seen two of my fellow STHs from the old stadium at a game this year, so it's possible lots of folks didn't come back.
Winning games will help and will bring more students, but the odds are pretty good that winning games will still see a lot of empty seats or seats filled with visiting team fans in the 100s in this price scheme.
Winning games will help and will bring more students, but the odds are pretty good that winning games will still see a lot of empty seats or seats filled with visiting team fans in the 100s in this price scheme.
cost isnt an issue. There were hundreds of tickets that NU had listed on Stubhub for $15 in blocks of 20.
The reality is that sports attendance is down, imo, due to the convenience of technology.
The biggest culprit may actually be cellphones and pads now. Everyone lives on their cells and can now watch any game on their cell. Its a much busier world due to technology, so it is more convenient to just watch on your cell or TV.
Honest question, what percentage of seats are owned by STH’s? I have heard numbers that are very high. How does that percentage compare to the old WR? I know the ticket office had painted a picture of a scarcity of seats left after STH purchases. I been to 4 games this season, but all have been thanks to the generosity of STH’s.
I don’t mean to deminish any financial impact on you or others, because raising prices do price some folks out if STH. However, someone came up with the funds and replaced you. That person should be a NU supporter. This is because there is no way a Broker would break even in lower deck seats from a cost perspective if you intent is to buy to sell the tickets. The donation makes it not even close.
I think there is at most 3 games this year that you would not be able to get in the stadium for face value or below. There would be additional games if you insisted on premium lower bowl seating. Point is IMO you could piece meal the entire season of tickets at a cost of face value seats Without the donation.
Yes, it takes some searching and work and would be considered a pain in the *** for some, but entirely possible.
As far as the fat cats trying to recoup there investment on the secondary market. I highly doubt it. This too would not come close to recapturing their investment, takes work, and quite frankly these large donors aren’t messing around with stub hub or the like to what amounts to chump change for many of them. I think they are far more likely to give them away. Sometimes they will end up in Cats fans hands and sometimes they won’t.
Again, fully respect this is not your situation or mine of the majority of us here. However, from their perspective they keep the tickets with the folks that contribute the most and are in theory Cat fans. I wish the office had their own ticket sale process that would allow for the STH’s to resell tickets when they don’t go thru the NU ticket office to screened verified NU fans like yourself. Maybe we pay a small fee per year to be listed and contacted when these seats aren’t used. No mess for the fat cats and they should want the seats used by NU fans not empty.
The fact that there's no coordination between football and basketball season tickets when there is almost certainly serious overlap to the two STH bases is a gigantic oversight. The fact that the current and projectable trend is towards squeezing more cash (especially via donations) out of us is a gigantic mistake.
NU should be marketing heavily towards two groups:
1) The people who are STHs in both sports, because they're exceedingly less likely to be the people who buy to resell, or who would resell to opposing fans because they don't care enough. There could easily be package deals, special incentives, premier access to special events (BTT, Indy, bowls, etc., as well as non-game things, whatever those are). These are the core everyday supporters of NU athletics.
2) The young alumni base, particularly those who live in Chicago. These are people who saw tons of success in NU athletics while they were in school and are less predisposed to the "we suck at sports" mindset prevalent in earlier generations. They also have a higher lifetime value when you can hook them early, tend to have more free time on their hands, and will be more likely to make some noise at games to create a better environment. Get them in the door however we can and create a fun experience around the game.
First, across the board, the young alum ticket discount needs to extend much further out than the current 5 years. I believe that it's 10 for giving/donations purposes and see no reason why that shouldn't be the same number. Anecdotally, I went straight to grad school elsewhere for three years, and though I bought football tickets when I didn't live in Chicago, I only got two years' worth of young alum discounts for basketball by the time I moved back. The marginal difference in price will be made up over time if these fans remain STHs for even a few years.
For football, this means there should be shuttle packages from Lakeview/LP/Old Town/River North and Bucktown/Wicker, replete with food and beverage, a la the student caravan to Indy. Make NU games an experience beyond just showing up and leaving. Plenty of my friends went to every game as undergrads but don't want to deal with the hassle of parking in Evanston or two long El rides, and spending half a day at Ryan with no decent food. Call 'em lazy millennials if you want, but the customer is always right. Shore those parts of the experience up. Turn them into positives.
For basketball, this is harder because 6:00 and 8:00 weeknight starts both have their own challenges, but this generation has an affinity for loyalty programs and digital check-ins that might be used to offer incentives for repeated attendance. $3 off a plate of crappy wings in Schaumburg ain't gonna cut it. Be better than that. Find places in the city catering to the same demographic whose mission matches NU's. And for the love of all that is holy, make it possible to get good seats not surrounded by Hawkeyes and Hoosiers without mortgaging the house none of us can afford anyway. Understand that the economics of college athletics stem from TV and digital streaming, and that the value therein grows when the product is better AND looks better.
(I also believe that many of these types of efforts would appeal to non-alum fans who live in the city as well. Frankly, at least for basketball, I don't think trying to appeal to families on the North Shore with no connection to NU is the way to go. The number of games, the times of those games, and the number of seats in the arena suggest to me that we'd have more success appealing to these other groups. "Chicago's Big Ten Team" presages this.)
To that point: Winning, of course, is the most important thing by a long shot. Football is fun right now; basketball is less so even with the new arena. Win and people will show. Win + be smart about the experience you provide, and more people will show more consistently.
NU should be marketing heavily towards two groups:
1) The people who are STHs in both sports, because they're exceedingly less likely to be the people who buy to resell, or who would resell to opposing fans because they don't care enough. There could easily be package deals, special incentives, premier access to special events (BTT, Indy, bowls, etc., as well as non-game things, whatever those are). These are the core everyday supporters of NU athletics.
2) The young alumni base, particularly those who live in Chicago. These are people who saw tons of success in NU athletics while they were in school and are less predisposed to the "we suck at sports" mindset prevalent in earlier generations. They also have a higher lifetime value when you can hook them early, tend to have more free time on their hands, and will be more likely to make some noise at games to create a better environment. Get them in the door however we can and create a fun experience around the game.
First, across the board, the young alum ticket discount needs to extend much further out than the current 5 years. I believe that it's 10 for giving/donations purposes and see no reason why that shouldn't be the same number. Anecdotally, I went straight to grad school elsewhere for three years, and though I bought football tickets when I didn't live in Chicago, I only got two years' worth of young alum discounts for basketball by the time I moved back. The marginal difference in price will be made up over time if these fans remain STHs for even a few years.
For football, this means there should be shuttle packages from Lakeview/LP/Old Town/River North and Bucktown/Wicker, replete with food and beverage, a la the student caravan to Indy. Make NU games an experience beyond just showing up and leaving. Plenty of my friends went to every game as undergrads but don't want to deal with the hassle of parking in Evanston or two long El rides, and spending half a day at Ryan with no decent food. Call 'em lazy millennials if you want, but the customer is always right. Shore those parts of the experience up. Turn them into positives.
For basketball, this is harder because 6:00 and 8:00 weeknight starts both have their own challenges, but this generation has an affinity for loyalty programs and digital check-ins that might be used to offer incentives for repeated attendance. $3 off a plate of crappy wings in Schaumburg ain't gonna cut it. Be better than that. Find places in the city catering to the same demographic whose mission matches NU's. And for the love of all that is holy, make it possible to get good seats not surrounded by Hawkeyes and Hoosiers without mortgaging the house none of us can afford anyway. Understand that the economics of college athletics stem from TV and digital streaming, and that the value therein grows when the product is better AND looks better.
(I also believe that many of these types of efforts would appeal to non-alum fans who live in the city as well. Frankly, at least for basketball, I don't think trying to appeal to families on the North Shore with no connection to NU is the way to go. The number of games, the times of those games, and the number of seats in the arena suggest to me that we'd have more success appealing to these other groups. "Chicago's Big Ten Team" presages this.)
To that point: Winning, of course, is the most important thing by a long shot. Football is fun right now; basketball is less so even with the new arena. Win and people will show. Win + be smart about the experience you provide, and more people will show more consistently.
how are they goin to compete with cell phones? Most or all of the people in our office will watch their favorite teams on their cell, nba pass, mlb at bat, btn, espn/dish etc.