One person's (mine) reflections on the Stoops era and the steep odds he now faces

[JRowland]

Went a little overboard with this. It's not an objective who, what, when, where, why piece. Definitely subjective commentary but a lot of reflections here on the Stoops era, where he's taken UK, where things stand now and what I see as increasingly steep odds (and why).

LINK: One person's reflections on the Stoops era and his newly steep odds

 

[Crootin]

Basketball is all about recruiting, football is all about coaching.

When it comes down to it, in any given year, the starting LOLB at UK isn't going to be meaningfully more or less talented than the starting LOLB at an Arkansas or an UCLA or even an Southern Miss. They're all going to be roughly the same size and speed.
When you get past maybe the top 100 or so recruits, nationally, players aren't different enough to merit all the attention the business gets.

The winners in this game know how to scheme better than others, motivate better than others, teach better than others, manage better than others, etc. It's been my observation that truly "great" recruiting follows winning, not the other way around.

Believing that you need a bunch of 4.4 fortys to win when everybody else has 4.5 fortys(big difference right?) is just a distraction, imo.

 

[NCukcat62]

Basketball is all about recruiting, football is all about coaching.

When it comes down to it, in any given year, the starting LOLB at UK isn't going to be meaningfully more or less talented than the starting LOLB at an Arkansas or an UCLA or even an Southern Miss. They're all going to be roughly the same size and speed.
Maybe when you get past the top 100 or so recruits, nationally, players aren't different enough to merit all the attention the business gets.

The winners in this game know how to scheme better than others, motivate better than others, teach better than others, manage better than others, etc. It's been my observation that truly "great" recruiting follows winning, not the other way around.

Believing that you need a bunch of 4.4 fortys to win when everybody else has 4.5 fortys(big difference right?) is just a distraction, imo.

Well you made good points but the first sentence doesn't give you any merit.

 

[Crootin]

Damn. Good points without merit. So close.

 

[John Henry]

Football recruits no matter what their star ranking, must be developed and coached. Stoops has yet to demonstrate an ability to do that. He has shown an inability to manage a game.. The clock is running and it is not getting any easier for him. For some strange reason our offense looked a lot different in the second half than in the first. What happened at half time? We saw the same thing when Dawson was OC. UK has a proven OC so why not turn the offense over to him completely. If we score in two plays celebrate don't worry about the defense getting tired. Maybe Coach should stay away from the offense and spend more time with the defense coordinator who is still on training wheels 3 years into the job. If no improvement on the defensive side in the next few games and the young players do not show improvement or an ability to play SEC football, throw in the towel and call it quits. Because this thing ain't workin'. Just a thought.

 

[Mr Schwump]

Interesting read after wading thru the writer's patting himself on the back for several paragraphs.

One thing for sure, UK football is one uphill battle after another and trying to build a winning tradition in the take no prisoners SEC doesn't help. I don't have much time left, it's looking doubtful it's going to happen in my lifetime but gotta keep working at it. Never know, things may suddenly start falling into place.

 

[STUCKNBIG10]

Pretty excellent article. Very fair and any UK fan that has experienced the constant pain can empathize with everything that you wrote.

 

[irishcat1965]

Stoops is in a very tight spot and there is very little margin for error in the rest of the schedule this year after that loss. It appears Stoops must run the table on Vandy, Miss. State, USC and Missouri. And he has shown nothing so far in his coaching that tells me he is capable of doing it. The only positive is that 3 of those games are home games.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

Basketball is all about recruiting, football is all about coaching.

When it comes down to it, in any given year, the starting LOLB at UK isn't going to be meaningfully more or less talented than the starting LOLB at an Arkansas or an UCLA or even an Southern Miss. They're all going to be roughly the same size and speed.
When you get past maybe the top 100 or so recruits, nationally, players aren't different enough to merit all the attention the business gets.

The winners in this game know how to scheme better than others, motivate better than others, teach better than others, manage better than others, etc. It's been my observation that truly "great" recruiting follows winning, not the other way around.

Believing that you need a bunch of 4.4 fortys to win when everybody else has 4.5 fortys(big difference right?) is just a distraction, imo.

Bear Bryant proved this repeatedly. The old saying "He could take his and beat yours or take yours and beat his". Rupp won hundreds of games with a lot of KY talent. It's coaching. The great ones get it done wherever they are with whatever they have and can get. New facilities and all of that look nice and shiny but that doesn't make the coach any better.

 

[VilleCat_rivals377292]

I am sure that Stoops is a great guy, but he is bringing this all on himself. You don't lose to Southern Miss at home in a must win game up 35-10 with Shannon Dawson on the other sideline. It is not good that WKU is a better program with less talent and facilities.

 

[JasonS.]

Really well done, @JRowland. Lot to digest here, but this may be the authoritative take on the Stoops Era to date.

 

[UKfan2151]

That was a lengthy piece but a well written one and I agree with your analysis of the situation. Right now Stoops finds himself trapped in a hole 20 feet deep. Yet he only has a ladder that reaches 10 feet. Getting out of that hole is going to be a major challenge for him at this point.

 

[KY1WING]

Damn. Good points without merit. So close.

It'll be alright.

Just work harder ...

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

After watching Stoops it's clear that he's in over his head. Obviously a very good DC but some guys just aren't HC material and I think that's what we're seeing now. He came to UK with a reputation of building solid defensive teams but it's been a disaster.

 

[BlueRunner11]

That was a lengthy piece but a well written one and I agree with your analysis of the situation. Right now Stoops finds himself trapped in a hole 20 feet deep. Yet he only has a ladder that reaches 10 feet. Getting out of that hole is going to be a major challenge for him at this point.

As Saturday clearly demonstrated, Stoops finds himself in that 20 foot hole that he stumbled bass awkwards in by his own doing. The sad thing is, he's done it before and id guess he'll do it again.

 

[Blue Decade]

Stoops is in a very tight spot and there is very little margin for error in the rest of the schedule this year after that loss. It appears Stoops must run the table on Vandy, Miss. State, USC and Missouri. And he has shown nothing so far in his coaching that tells me he is capable of doing it. The only positive is that 3 of those games are home games.

Stoops is in a tight spot. But, saying he has "shown nothing" is not fair or accurate. Stoops has been a stronger recruiter than previous Kentucky football coaches. He has brought energy and enthusiasm to the job, and he has been an important participant in the facility upgrades. I think Stoops has shown 2 shortcomings, and they are related. He has had ongoing change and upheaval on his staff, but he hasn't been able to put together a staff than can execute. And because of this, there haven't been enough successful player development stories. While a few guys like Jon Toth, Josh Forrest, CJ Johnson, and Melvin Lewis have been great stories, they have been more than balanced out by other guys like Matt Elam, Regie Meant, Jason Hatcher, Mikel Horton, Nick Richardson, Landon Foster who for 1 reason or another just haven't contributed all that was needed and expected. Football coaches must develop young players into effective players. There hasn't been enough of that, but the cupboard isn't bare either. Stoops has 23 more games to show he can do this job. I am not sure he can do it, but he still has a shot. He also has facilities that most other coaches would love to have.

 

[Shavers48]

Stoops is in a tight spot. But, saying he has "shown nothing" is not fair or accurate. Stoops has been a stronger recruiter than previous Kentucky football coaches. He has brought energy and enthusiasm to the job, and he has been an important participant in the facility upgrades. I think Stoops has shown 2 shortcomings, and they are related. He has had ongoing change and upheaval on his staff, but he hasn't been able to put together a staff than can execute. And because of this, there haven't been enough successful player development stories. While a few guys like Jon Toth, Josh Forrest, CJ Johnson, and Melvin Lewis have been great stories, they have been more than balanced out by other guys like Matt Elam, Regie Meant, Jason Hatcher, Mikel Horton, Nick Richardson, Landon Foster who for 1 reason or another just haven't contributed all that was needed and expected. Football coaches must develop young players into effective players. There hasn't been enough of that, but the cupboard isn't bare either. Stoops has 23 more games to show he can do this job. I am not sure he can do it, but he still has a shot. He also has facilities that most other coaches would love to have.

if he gets 23 more he won't win 8 of them. and hopefully that'll get barney out the door too.

 

[NeverFireDJ]

 

[irishcat1965]

Stoops is in a tight spot. But, saying he has "shown nothing" is not fair or accurate. Stoops has been a stronger recruiter than previous Kentucky football coaches. He has brought energy and enthusiasm to the job, and he has been an important participant in the facility upgrades. I think Stoops has shown 2 shortcomings, and they are related. He has had ongoing change and upheaval on his staff, but he hasn't been able to put together a staff than can execute. And because of this, there haven't been enough successful player development stories. While a few guys like Jon Toth, Josh Forrest, CJ Johnson, and Melvin Lewis have been great stories, they have been more than balanced out by other guys like Matt Elam, Regie Meant, Jason Hatcher, Mikel Horton, Nick Richardson, Landon Foster who for 1 reason or another just haven't contributed all that was needed and expected. Football coaches must develop young players into effective players. There hasn't been enough of that, but the cupboard isn't bare either. Stoops has 23 more games to show he can do this job. I am not sure he can do it, but he still has a shot. He also has facilities that most other coaches would love to have.

When I said he had shown nothing, it was in reference to his ability to win those four games.

 

[scwildcat37]

I disagree with Justin about using the money from the new facilities to to pay a coach more money.

 

[Kampus Korner_rivals164031]

Interesting read after wading thru the writer's patting himself on the back for several paragraphs.

One thing for sure, UK football is one uphill battle after another and trying to build a winning tradition in the take no prisoners SEC doesn't help. I don't have much time left, it's looking doubtful it's going to happen in my lifetime but gotta keep working at it. Never know, things may suddenly start falling into place.

Mrschwump, I sense I'm "longer in the tooth" than you so I agree that UK football developing into a consistently winning program is not likely to happen in the remaining years I have left on this earth. I'm 66 years old. I saw my first UK football game in 1959. Blanton Collier was the coach. He succeeded the "Bear". He lasted until 1962 at which time he was fired only to ultimately become the head coach of the Cleveland Browns who, two years later, won the World Football Championship. (This was before the Super Bowl was created.) Collier was was also the last UK head football coach to have a winning record during the time he was the head man. Even so, his record was barely above .500 at 41-36-3. Since Collier, I, along with many others have suffered the tenures of 10 different UK head football coaches,(Bradshaw, Ray, Curci, Claiborne, Curry, Mumme, Morris, Brooks, Phillips and now Stoops.) Not one of these coaches has obtained a winning record during their respective tenures as UK coach. It doesn't appear Stoops is likely to break this post-Collier legacy. Since 1962, UK has lost far more games than it has won. For the statisticians, this is 54 years!

For most of the past 5 decades, August has been the best month for UK football. Optimism is at its highest. fans are excited. we stand on equal footing, record wise with the Alabama's, LSU's, Georgia's ,etc. Then, the season begins and generally by the end of September or mid-October, these same fans, except for a couple of years, every 10 years or so, get the proverbial "wake up call" that our football team is not as good as we had hoped during the month of August. Alas, I can't get that excited about upcoming UK football seasons anymore. This is sad. I wish I didn't feel this way but 50 plus years of watching losing football will do that to a person. At least it has done it for me. I still watch the Cats. cheer loudly and desperately want them to win every game.but do I harbor any expectations that the UK football program will ever become a consistent winner? Regrettably, I do not.

 

[bkingUK]

How many coaches are we going to fire 3-4 years in until we do something different? I'm not saying stay loyal to Stoops regardless of results. However, when you hire a guy who has never been a head coach, you should anticipate mistakes just like you should with any other job. The only way Stoops should be let go is if there is an absolute home run hire lined up ahead of time. Otherwise, we are just replacing him with another guy with potential or another guy who failed at an elite school (Bill Curry) and we are just repeating the cycle.

I think it might be time to put the idea that we are going to hire a young hot shot coach (ala Rick Pitino, Hal Mumme) and he's going to work miracles at a program with little tradition compared to the powers of the SEC. Knute Rockne himself couldn't pull that off gracefully.

 

[yoshukai]

How many coaches are we going to fire 3-4 years in until we do something different? I'm not saying stay loyal to Stoops regardless of results. However, when you hire a guy who has never been a head coach, you should anticipate mistakes just like you should with any other job. The only way Stoops should be let go is if there is an absolute home run hire lined up ahead of time. Otherwise, we are just replacing him with another guy with potential or another guy who failed at an elite school (Bill Curry) and we are just repeating the cycle.

I think it might be time to put the idea that we are going to hire a young hot shot coach (ala Rick Pitino, Hal Mumme) and he's going to work miracles at a program with little tradition compared to the powers of the SEC. Knute Rockne himself couldn't pull that off gracefully.

Southern Miss , Eastern, Western and Louisville are not in the SEC . Let's not act like we are playing well against everyone but the SEC .

 

[Beatle Bum]

Interesting read. I think one problem is that the recruiting rankings 10 years ago are not the same as today. Recruiting blossomed into a big business. ESPN started covering more HS football games, camps became the focus of television shows and the top websites started putting more people on the ground to assess talent and there are far more camps for people to see the talent. When Mumme and Morriss were the coaches, UK got players rated as 2 stars that simply were unknowns to services. In today's world of analysts, many of UK's recruits would have been 3 stars, because they would have been better known. More kids seem to be going to more camps. So, when Stoops gets credit for such solid classes, some of that is deserved and his staff rightfully acclaimed, but some of his success has to do with the fact that the system is far more advanced today than it was just ten years ago.

 

[Mr Schwump]

Mrschwump, I sense I'm "longer in the tooth" than you so I agree that UK football developing into a consistently winning program is not likely to happen in the remaining years I have left on this earth. I'm 66 years old. I saw my first UK football game in 1959. Blanton Collier was the coach. He succeeded the "Bear". He lasted until 1962 at which time he was fired only to ultimately become the head coach of the Cleveland Browns who, two years later, won the World Football Championship. (This was before the Super Bowl was created.) Collier was was also the last UK head football coach to have a winning record during the time he was the head man. Even so, his record was barely above .500 at 41-36-3. Since Collier, I, along with many others have suffered the tenures of 10 different UK head football coaches,(Bradshaw, Ray, Curci, Claiborne, Curry, Mumme, Morris, Brooks, Phillips and now Stoops.) Not one of these coaches has obtained a winning record during their respective tenures as UK coach. It doesn't appear Stoops is likely to break this post-Collier legacy. Since 1962, UK has lost far more games than it has won. For the statisticians, this is 54 years!

For most of the past 5 decades, August has been the best month for UK football. Optimism is at its highest. fans are excited. we stand on equal footing, record wise with the Alabama's, LSU's, Georgia's ,etc. Then, the season begins and generally by the end of September or mid-October, these same fans, except for a couple of years, every 10 years or so, get the proverbial "wake up call" that our football team is not as good as we had hoped during the month of August. Alas, I can't get that excited about upcoming UK football seasons anymore. This is sad. I wish I didn't feel this way but 50 plus years of watching losing football will do that to a person. At least it has done it for me. I still watch the Cats. cheer loudly and desperately want them to win every game.but do I harbor any expectations that the UK football program will ever become a consistent winner? Regrettably, I do not.

Got a few years on you Kampus Korner, I'm 70. Saw my first game in '57 so I go back to the Collier era too. Thing I recall about those teams as well as Claiborne's teams is they may not have won a lot but the opponent knew they had been playing football at game's end. Just not seeing much physicality any longer.

 

[Beatle Bum]

And, one thing we don't yet know is whether UK was the underdog in the first game. The first half would suggest UK was not an underdog, but underdogs jump on good teams all the time. UK did it to UL the last two years. Ole Miss did it to FSU. Such seems most likely in rivalry games and for the early season games when teams are adjusting and molding. UK fans reject the notion that USM was the higher rated team, as many UL fans rejected that Houston was good enough to come to PJ and best them after then nearly knocked off traditional power Auburn.

It is now unknown. We may learn that USM is not very good. Or, we may learn they are a very good team.

That is why disappointment cannot bleed into a season analysis after just one game. Assessing Stoops and this team now is folly and only good for message boarding. At the end of the season, some fans will puff their chests and claim they were right. And, they will be. But, they don't know that now.

 

[Cats78]

You're correct. You did go overboard. Just curious... What is the background in your football knowledge? Did you ever play the game or any sports at all? I'm just skeptical on the perception that certain folks are football "experts".

 

[UK_Angus]

Basketball is all about recruiting, football is all about coaching.

When it comes down to it, in any given year, the starting LOLB at UK isn't going to be meaningfully more or less talented than the starting LOLB at an Arkansas or an UCLA or even an Southern Miss. They're all going to be roughly the same size and speed.
When you get past maybe the top 100 or so recruits, nationally, players aren't different enough to merit all the attention the business gets.

The winners in this game know how to scheme better than others, motivate better than others, teach better than others, manage better than others, etc. It's been my observation that truly "great" recruiting follows winning, not the other way around.

Believing that you need a bunch of 4.4 fortys to win when everybody else has 4.5 fortys(big difference right?) is just a distraction, imo.

agree 100%....coaching football is the toughest coaching job of all sports....its not enough to have a passion and love for the game or to be able to x and o or to be able to manage coaches and manage players or to be able to coordinate off filed activities.....you have to excel at all of those tasks and there are just not many people that excel in all of them. It seems that stoops is a talented communicator but he just lacks the necessary abilities to pull everything together in cohesive and effective manner.

The recruiting bump that we had has not translated into victories. Recruiting is important but not as important as finding a head coach that knows how to make all the pieces of the puzzle fit. You need to find that type of coach first and the wins will follow and the recruiting will follow.

That's why when you go looking for a head coach you better look at someone with head coaching experience and see their results as a head coach. They don't have to be from a P5 school they just need to be someone who has demonstrated they can run a program effectively. Just say no to coordinators because the skill set for a coordinator and a head coach are very different.

 

[lz]

You're correct. You did go overboard. Just curious... What is the background in your football knowledge? Did you ever play the game or any sports at all? I'm just skeptical on the perception that certain folks are football "experts".

I think since JR is Rivals' UK guy, he was just trying to explain his background, and I can say it's very, very rare for an out of state young person to become a UK football fan. Based on reading his work on HOB, JR has tremendous recruiting expertise and certainly a solid understanding of football, not necessarily an "expert" as you describe it...me, neither. I don't recall him claiming that but won't dispute it if that's your feeling.