OSU without Kaleb Wesson

[haywood jahblowme]

drastically different team. (not surpringinly - he is one of the best big guys in the league)

but its odd when you don't have a 30 min game player you are depending on playing, how crippling it is to the playing style and roster.

LeDee and Young are the back-up "5" - and their incoming class has a G, SF, PF

you would think a B1G school with a rich tradition would do a better job of having a better center waiting around to play behind Wesson. because its easy to get those guys

now imagine being OSU and and being told Wesson is done for the year just 2 months before the seasson started, and then LeDee tears his knee up

 

[NJCat]

drastically different team. (not surpringinly - he is one of the best big guys in the league)

but its odd when you don't have a 30 min game player you are depending on playing, how crippling it is to the playing style and roster.

LeDee and Young are the back-up "5" - and their incoming class has a G, SF, PF

you would think a B1G school with a rich tradition would do a better job of having a better center waiting around to play behind Wesson. because its easy to get those guys

now imagine being OSU and and being told Wesson is done for the year just 2 months before the seasson started, and then LeDee tears his knee up

Ouch!!

 

[Catreporter]

I see what you did there!

 

[ricko6543211]

drastically different team. (not surpringinly - he is one of the best big guys in the league)

but its odd when you don't have a 30 min game player you are depending on playing, how crippling it is to the playing style and roster.

LeDee and Young are the back-up "5" - and their incoming class has a G, SF, PF

you would think a B1G school with a rich tradition would do a better job of having a better center waiting around to play behind Wesson. because its easy to get those guys

now imagine being OSU and and being told Wesson is done for the year just 2 months before the seasson started, and then LeDee tears his knee up

Ehhhhhh this is a bit selective. Lathon =/ Wesson which I think is the comp you’re trying to make.

Imagine being MSU and losing Langford, then Ward and Ahrens. They did okay. Things happen in basketball. It’s best to be prepared. Coaches try their best to be.

Great win last night! Go Cats! Thanks to Vic and Dererk and the others.

 

[pawildcat_rivals209725]

Ohio State is definitely not a tournament team without Wesson. With suspensions, injuries etc., the B1G's prospects of making noise in the NCAAs are diminishing.

 

[NUCat320]

Everything is just so hard.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

Ehhhhhh this is a bit selective. Lathon =/ Wesson which I think is the comp you’re trying to make.

Imagine being MSU and losing Langford, then Ward and Ahrens. They did okay. Things happen in basketball. It’s best to be prepared. Coaches try their best to be.

Great win last night! Go Cats! Thanks to Vic and Dererk and the others.

MSU is also a blue blood elite instituiton. not really a valid comparison for why they do well without guys vs. why we struggle

national recruit rank for current MSU team (including their THREE nba draft picks during that time)

2015 -
mcquaid - 84
ahearns - 3 star
davis - 26 (2nd round draft pick)

2016
bridges - 10 (#12 draft overall)
ward - 41
langord - 20
winston - 29

2017
Jackson - 6 (#4 pick overall)
tillman - 86

2018
kithier - 113
bingham - 61
brown - 101
loyer - 65
henry - 115

2019
hall - 46
watts - 39



by same ranking system
Law - 103
falzon - 92
pardon - NR
ash - NR

benson - 118
brown - NR
ivanauskus - 97

gaines - NR

greer - NR
young - NR
nance - 67
kopp - 66
(lathon - 127/ 27th best PG prospect)

2019
beran - 100
buie - NR
jones - NR

 

[NUCat320]

MSU is also a blue blood elite instituiton. not really a valid comparison for why they do well without guys vs. why we struggle

national recruit rank for current MSU team (including their THREE nba draft picks during that time)

2015 -
mcquaid - 84
ahearns - 3 star
davis - 26 (2nd round draft pick)

2016
bridges - 10 (#12 draft overall)
ward - 41
langord - 20
winston - 29

2017
Jackson - 6 (#4 pick overall)
tillman - 86

2018
kithier - 113
bingham - 61
brown - 101
loyer - 65
henry - 115

2019
hall - 46
watts - 39



by same ranking system
Law - 103
falzon - 92
pardon - NR
ash - NR

benson - 118
brown - NR
ivanauskus - 97

gaines - NR

greer - NR
young - NR
nance - 67
kopp - 66
(lathon - 127/ 27th best PG prospect)

2019
beran - 100
buie - NR
jones - NR

Isn’t NU’s strategy to recruit top-tier talent? Or is that also the administration’s fault?

 

[stpaulcat]

Ehhhhhh this is a bit selective. Lathon =/ Wesson which I think is the comp you’re trying to make.

Imagine being MSU and losing Langford, then Ward and Ahrens. They did okay. Things happen in basketball. It’s best to be prepared. Coaches try their best to be.

Great win last night! Go Cats! Thanks to Vic and Dererk and the others.

Pardon is back next year, is he not?

 

[NJCat]

Pardon is back next year, is he not?

Nope.

 

[stpaulcat]

Nope.

Bummer. Gonna miss him and Law.

 

[ricko6543211]

MSU is also a blue blood elite instituiton. not really a valid comparison for why they do well without guys vs. why we struggle

national recruit rank for current MSU team (including their THREE nba draft picks during that time)

2015 -
mcquaid - 84
ahearns - 3 star
davis - 26 (2nd round draft pick)

2016
bridges - 10 (#12 draft overall)
ward - 41
langord - 20
winston - 29

2017
Jackson - 6 (#4 pick overall)
tillman - 86

2018
kithier - 113
bingham - 61
brown - 101
loyer - 65
henry - 115

2019
hall - 46
watts - 39



by same ranking system
Law - 103
falzon - 92
pardon - NR
ash - NR

benson - 118
brown - NR
ivanauskus - 97

gaines - NR

greer - NR
young - NR
nance - 67
kopp - 66
(lathon - 127/ 27th best PG prospect)

2019
beran - 100
buie - NR
jones - NR

Hey I'm not trying to start an argument here too. Just saying that lots of other teams have injuries or suspensions or whatever too. Sometimes teams do well through the injuries, sometimes they don't. Whether they do or not reflects preparation, depth, and ability to make adjustments. Pointing to a bad game from OSU as sample size of one and suggesting "look at this, therefore it's okay that we stink this year" just seems like a bit of a cop out to me. Losing Lathon was not ideal, but it wasn't an extreme event, other than that we've actually been pretty healthy this year, you have to expect some attrition.

If Wesson were gone for an entire season, I still think OSU fans would be disappointed (and rightfully so) if their team went 4-15 in conference (one game pending). They would expect that the rest of the team is able to make sufficient adjustments to win a few more games. Va Tech has held up pretty darn well recently with their PG and best player out. Meanwhile, Duke fans are probably somewhat disappointed with how they've adjusted (or not) to not having Zion in the last few games.

 

[hdhntr1]

Hey I'm not trying to start an argument here too. Just saying that lots of other teams have injuries or suspensions or whatever too. Sometimes teams do well through the injuries, sometimes they don't. Whether they do or not reflects preparation, depth, and ability to make adjustments. Pointing to a bad game from OSU as sample size of one and suggesting "look at this, therefore it's okay that we stink this year" just seems like a bit of a cop out to me. Losing Lathon was not ideal, but it wasn't an extreme event, other than that we've actually been pretty healthy this year, you have to expect some attrition.

If Wesson were gone for an entire season, I still think OSU fans would be disappointed (and rightfully so) if their team went 4-15 in conference (one game pending). They would expect that the rest of the team is able to make sufficient adjustments to win a few more games. Va Tech has held up pretty darn well recently with their PG and best player out. Meanwhile, Duke fans are probably somewhat disappointed with how they've adjusted (or not) to not having Zion in the last few games.

OSU has only scored 101 pts in the two games Wesson has been out. It is likely that had they not had him from the beginning of the season, their record would look a lot like ours. Losing Lathon at that point in the cycle definitely was an extreme event. It was made worse by also losing Ash as both plan A and B were wiped out. Law's knee is still not back and is still impacting his explosiveness

 

[haywood jahblowme]

Ehhhhhh this is a bit selective. Lathon =/ Wesson which I think is the comp you’re trying to make.

Imagine being MSU and losing Langford, then Ward and Ahrens. They did okay. Things happen in basketball. It’s best to be prepared. Coaches try their best to be.

Great win last night! Go Cats! Thanks to Vic and Dererk and the others.

made this argument before.

Hey I'm not trying to start an argument here too. Just saying that lots of other teams have injuries or suspensions or whatever too. Sometimes teams do well through the injuries, sometimes they don't. Whether they do or not reflects preparation, depth, and ability to make adjustments. Pointing to a bad game from OSU as sample size of one and suggesting "look at this, therefore it's okay that we stink this year" just seems like a bit of a cop out to me. Losing Lathon was not ideal, but it wasn't an extreme event, other than that we've actually been pretty healthy this year, you have to expect some attrition.

If Wesson were gone for an entire season, I still think OSU fans would be disappointed (and rightfully so) if their team went 4-15 in conference (one game pending). They would expect that the rest of the team is able to make sufficient adjustments to win a few more games. Va Tech has held up pretty darn well recently with their PG and best player out. Meanwhile, Duke fans are probably somewhat disappointed with how they've adjusted (or not) to not having Zion in the last few games.

this is where we disagree and i have made this point many times. Centers and PGs are hard to "stockpile" - yes some teams are able to - but many are not when you really break down the roster.

MOST teams do not have 30 min ballhandler (capable to fill this role for an entire season) or Center waiting behind the one currently playing. Most have a 30 min ballhandler (or center) and a capable 10-15 min back up and then re-recruit that position when the player leaves or graduates (blue blood programs excluded of course)

 

[NJCat]

Bummer. Gonna miss him and Law.

Yep. Two great Cats.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

Isn’t NU’s strategy to recruit top-tier talent? Or is that also the administration’s fault?

the window of success is super small - but i think CCC and staff can figure it out.

think of yourself as a TOP TIER talent:
NU has:
one 20 win regular season
one NCAA tournament appearance
a crappy arena (up till this year)
a non-existent/crappy practice facility
a laughing stock reputation
a relatively weak roster
a unique campus expeience
not had a major NBA presence

a TOP TIER talent has to want to:
- have above average grades and test scores compared to all other top tier talents
- take on the fact that they choose a laughing stock - deal with that perception within their communities and do so over high quality places with great reputations (stan, UW, nova) etc...
- actually value a highest faultily education vs. UM, UW, etc (not including stan, duke, ND - which do not have the above) - or even value the degree at all
- battle HS/AAU coaches that want to send them elsewhere
- believe they can do what no one has been able to do in 30 years and get drafted to NBA

it can be done - but those relationships needed to be built over YEARS. we had a special group of kids in the tournaments years who were equal parts lucky and good.

never before has NU been seen as a winner, or even could be a winner

it is only the 2020/2021 class that don't necessarily know NU as a place with zero history, tradition, or piss poor facilities (and that coming off playing at all-state)

 

[NUCat320]

@haywood jahblowme none of this is news.

I guess I don’t understand why you’ve pivoted from ‘interesting insider’ to ‘whiny excuse-maker’ in the last 3 weeks.

I hope next year is better.

I’m going to do my best not to respond to your posts from here on out, but I sincerely hope that the coaching staff learns something from this year and improves next season, and as next season goes on. Last night was a nice respite. Let’s get another one next week.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

@haywood jahblowme none of this is news.

I guess I don’t understand why you’ve pivoted from ‘interesting insider’ to ‘whiny excuse-maker’ in the last 3 weeks.

I hope next year is better.

i just like keeping the perspective for who NU is and the position they are in vs. jumping on CCC and staff single highhandedly when i can recognize there are many factors for lack of success this year

could i come on here and ***** about this and that and trash CCC and the seniors and the shot making etc... sure. but what does that add?

i have defended the idea CCC overplays guys in minutes played swell with facts

i have defended the loss of lathon and ash with roster breakdowns from other teams in the big and 2 other conferences - and cited other teams examples (like wesson)

i have pointed out the major hurdle the admissions aspect is for a team sport that plays 5 players at a time when 1 player can make or break a season for non blue-blood teams (see K Wesson)

i have continued to point out that simply making the NCAA tournament doesn't magically make top tier kids want to attend NU

i have continued to point out that our offense, even crippled without its primary ball handler, continues to get players wide open shots

i have continued to point out that the conference is possibly the strongest it has ever been top to bottom (and with that being said - NU is actually having a top 4-6 year statically speaking on its strength as a team from places like kenpom) in a year where 23 or so games are against the top 75 teams in the country

if me pointing those things out to show the other side of posters bitching about those things - then sure i gladly be labeled as a whiny excuse maker.


sure i get information here or there. sometimes its accurate and sometimes it not. but i am first and foremost a fan which is why i am on the board in the first place, so don't really care if what i post bothers you!

 

[ricko6543211]

OSU has only scored 101 pts in the two games Wesson has been out. It is likely that had they not had him from the beginning of the season, their record would look a lot like ours. Losing Lathon at that point in the cycle definitely was an extreme event. It was made worse by also losing Ash as both plan A and B were wiped out. Law's knee is still not back and is still impacting his explosiveness

How many years out of the last 10 or so of NU basketball have we not lost at least one meaningful contributor to injury, suspension, transfer or something else? It's gotta be at least half, maybe more. It seemed like every year it was a new thing during Carmody's regime. Coble, Cobb, Crawford, under Collins we've had Olah, Law, etc. I think our tournament year was the exception rather than the rule.

Adversity will come, things happen in life and in CBB. Sometimes teams make it through that adversity with flying colors, more often they are hampered to some varying extent. As I said above, the outcome depends on preparation, depth, and ability to make adjustments. It's unfortunate we lost Lathon, that made it tough, I just don't think that absolves the team / coach of all blame. It was still a disappointing outcome even given that.

 

[ricko6543211]

made this argument before.


this is where we disagree and i have made this point many times. Centers and PGs are hard to "stockpile" - yes some teams are able to - but many are not when you really break down the roster.

MOST teams do not have 30 min ballhandler (capable to fill this role for an entire season) or Center waiting behind the one currently playing. Most have a 30 min ballhandler (or center) and a capable 10-15 min back up and then re-recruit that position when the player leaves or graduates (blue blood programs excluded of course)

Yeah, you've made this point. I / we get it - it's hard. If winning in CBB were easy, everyone would do it. Doesn't change the fact that having a roster that, in hindsight, was this dependent on an unproven freshman PG was a risky strategy.

If this was the obvious and clear consequence of losing Lathon, then how come most folks here were not predicting a 4 win conference season? It seemed to me like the general consensus was something like 8-12 or so. I have a sneaking feeling that, even without Lathon, CC's expectations (realistic expectations, not his goals) for the year were not to be at or near the bottom of the conference. I bet he thought they could still compete. And I bet that he would consider the season a disappointment and thinks we have underperformed. If he does not, then frankly I would be quite disappointed in him.

 

[Medill90]

All the bitching about this year....all the bitching about the team....the coaching....the players....

This morning NU, despite the 10 game losing streak, is 67 overall in KenPom and 19 in defense.

That is just incredible.

 

[hdhntr1]

Yeah, you've made this point. I / we get it - it's hard. If winning in CBB were easy, everyone would do it. Doesn't change the fact that having a roster that, in hindsight, was this dependent on an unproven freshman PG was a risky strategy.

If this was the obvious and clear consequence of losing Lathon, then how come most folks here were not predicting a 4 win conference season? It seemed to me like the general consensus was something like 8-12 or so. I have a sneaking feeling that, even without Lathon, CC's expectations (realistic expectations, not his goals) for the year were not to be at or near the bottom of the conference. I bet he thought they could still compete. And I bet that he would consider the season a disappointment and thinks we have underperformed. If he does not, then frankly I would be quite disappointed in him.

It was not really that risky. Having a true 30 mpg PG would have made a difference of several games. (with him and Ash, we likely win at least 5-7 more games and are dancing (or close. At least NIT). And he was not just about this year. We also lost the backup PG in Ash. As far as predictions, other sites had us predicted for 12th in conference (before the loss of Ash) and that is a difference of about 1 or two games and not having even Ash probably made that difference. As far as why people on this board were predicting more, hard to expect Law's injury and the subsequent deterioration of his game. Have to think expecting more out of Taylor was reasonable as well. The combination plus some bad luck probably cost us a few games. They also might not have had a feel for just how tough the BIG is this year. Basically we ran into a perfect storm. Plus Fan is short for fanatic and people are optimists.

 

[ricko6543211]

All the bitching about this year....all the bitching about the team....the coaching....the players....

This morning NU, despite the 10 game losing streak, is 67 overall in KenPom and 19 in defense.

That is just incredible.

Tough conference. and 19 is a really good defense. I scrolled through a few years back, that's the best I found, even in the tourney year we were #32 (and 2 full points per 100 worse). Every other team with a top 20 D is in the top 42... Washington is #18 D at #42 overall. The only other team with a similarly extreme split as us is VCU... #32 overall, #176 O and #4 D. We are #19 and #186, for 67 overall.

Can we bring back the "Make Shots" slogan for next year? We are pounding the rock well, but not putting it in the net!

 

[hdhntr1]

How many years out of the last 10 or so of NU basketball have we not lost at least one meaningful contributor to injury, suspension, transfer or something else? It's gotta be at least half, maybe more. It seemed like every year it was a new thing during Carmody's regime. Coble, Cobb, Crawford, under Collins we've had Olah, Law, etc. I think our tournament year was the exception rather than the rule.

Adversity will come, things happen in life and in CBB. Sometimes teams make it through that adversity with flying colors, more often they are hampered to some varying extent. As I said above, the outcome depends on preparation, depth, and ability to make adjustments. It's unfortunate we lost Lathon, that made it tough, I just don't think that absolves the team / coach of all blame. It was still a disappointing outcome even given that.

We had more than an average share of bad luck and adversity. Losing Lathon, Losing Ash, Law getting injured, Taylor (and to some extent Turner) being nowhere close to where they were at their former schools, Ryan mono, Falzon taking longer to recover. It was a perfect storm. Does it totally absolve CCC and company? No but it does give things perspective.

For next year, Pardon will be difficult to replace. Turner likely is a reasonable replacement for Law (not necessarily the healthy Law but the one we had for much of the year. We will be in much better position regarding the PG/LG position and our Fresh will be Sophs for the other wings. Gaines will likely take another step So we will likely be in better shape in 3 positions, even in one and worse in 1 depending. And it will be hard to have the BIG as strong as it was this year. And if we have a couple transfers that can help further. In short, I think we will be in descent shape

 

[JournCat]

All the bitching about this year....all the bitching about the team....the coaching....the players....

This morning NU, despite the 10 game losing streak, is 67 overall in KenPom and 19 in defense.

That is just incredible.

After everything that's gone wrong ... if the ball goes in against Michigan, we hold on at Iowa, and if we manage to win either Penn State or Rutgers, we'd be a fringe bubble team. This year was plagued by bad coaching, bad recruiting, and also bad bounces.

 

[julescat]

After everything that's gone wrong ... if the ball goes in against Michigan, we hold on at Iowa, and if we manage to win either Penn State or Rutgers, we'd be a fringe bubble team. This year was plagued by bad coaching, bad recruiting, and also bad bounces.

Are you being serious?

 

[JournCat]

Are you being serious?

Only half-serious. Emphasis on fringe.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

@haywood jahblowmeI guess I don’t understand why you’ve pivoted from ‘interesting insider’ to ‘whiny excuse-maker’ in the last 3 weeks.

As opposed to what? Being someone who ***** on the team/staff with every post (ie you)?

 

[NUCat320]

As opposed to what? Being someone who ***** on the team/staff with every post (ie you)?

Cmon maaaaan. I like the Grizzlies jerseys.

 

[ricko6543211]

It was not really that risky. Having a true 30 mpg PG would have made a difference of several games. (with him and Ash, we likely win at least 5-7 more games and are dancing (or close. At least NIT). And he was not just about this year. We also lost the backup PG in Ash. As far as predictions, other sites had us predicted for 12th in conference (before the loss of Ash) and that is a difference of about 1 or two games and not having even Ash probably made that difference. As far as why people on this board were predicting more, hard to expect Law's injury and the subsequent deterioration of his game. Have to think expecting more out of Taylor was reasonable as well. The combination plus some bad luck probably cost us a few games. They also might not have had a feel for just how tough the BIG is this year. Basically we ran into a perfect storm. Plus Fan is short for fanatic and people are optimists.

I'm a little bit confused by your post, but if we continue we'll just be going in circles.

Cheers and Go Cats!

 

[IGNORE]

MSU is also a blue blood elite instituiton. not really a valid comparison for why they do well without guys vs. why we struggle

national recruit rank for current MSU team (including their THREE nba draft picks during that time)

2015 -
mcquaid - 84
ahearns - 3 star
davis - 26 (2nd round draft pick)

2016
bridges - 10 (#12 draft overall)
ward - 41
langord - 20
winston - 29

2017
Jackson - 6 (#4 pick overall)
tillman - 86

2018
kithier - 113
bingham - 61
brown - 101
loyer - 65
henry - 115

2019
hall - 46
watts - 39



by same ranking system
Law - 103
falzon - 92
pardon - NR
ash - NR

benson - 118
brown - NR
ivanauskus - 97

gaines - NR

greer - NR
young - NR
nance - 67
kopp - 66
(lathon - 127/ 27th best PG prospect)

2019
beran - 100
buie - NR
jones - NR

But CCC is a great recruiter.

 

[NJCat]

But CCC is a great NU recruiter.

Fixed it for you. Relative to past administrations he is great. Relative to the rest of the B1G, not so much.

 

[ricko6543211]

i just like keeping the perspective for who NU is and the position they are in vs. jumping on CCC and staff single highhandedly when i can recognize there are many factors for lack of success this year

could i come on here and ***** about this and that and trash CCC and the seniors and the shot making etc... sure. but what does that add?

i have defended the idea CCC overplays guys in minutes played swell with facts

i have defended the loss of lathon and ash with roster breakdowns from other teams in the big and 2 other conferences - and cited other teams examples (like wesson)

i have pointed out the major hurdle the admissions aspect is for a team sport that plays 5 players at a time when 1 player can make or break a season for non blue-blood teams (see K Wesson)

i have continued to point out that simply making the NCAA tournament doesn't magically make top tier kids want to attend NU

i have continued to point out that our offense, even crippled without its primary ball handler, continues to get players wide open shots

i have continued to point out that the conference is possibly the strongest it has ever been top to bottom (and with that being said - NU is actually having a top 4-6 year statically speaking on its strength as a team from places like kenpom) in a year where 23 or so games are against the top 75 teams in the country

if me pointing those things out to show the other side of posters bitching about those things - then sure i gladly be labeled as a whiny excuse maker.


sure i get information here or there. sometimes its accurate and sometimes it not. but i am first and foremost a fan which is why i am on the board in the first place, so don't really care if what i post bothers you!

I definitely appreciate your posts. I hope you keep posting.

The one thing I'll say is - if you think the current state of the board is "bitching and moaning", you must not have been here doing the Carmody years (or see what happens on the football board if you bring up our prior OL coach). For the most part (there are maybe 2-3 exceptions, people that do legitimately "***** and moan"), I think a significant majority of people have been making honest (and, depending on your opinion, possibly fair) observations about things that have gone wrong this year and trying to figure out whether it will improve going forward. I actually don't know if I've seen a single person say they don't want Collins as a HC (might be wrong there, I'm sure I've missed one of the crazies state that). For the most part though, people have said something to the effect of "I think Collins is the answer long-term, we are just in a bit of a rough patch now, there are some questions we should be asking and things we can learn from the last 2 years."

So I hope you don't think that I'm bitching and moaning. If you do, let me know, I can moderate or just stay out of the conversation. I do think you've been a bit on the defensive side recently, but you certainly have an interesting perspective and I appreciate your posts.

Thinking generally, I tend to post something for one of a few reasons:
1. Observations from a game that just happened (strangely, I do this much more often after a win than a loss...)
2. Pregame thoughts, questions, analysis
3. Assigning power rankings, or trying to estimate the probability of X happening
4. Once in a blue moon I will think I have a useful data point or some analysis
5. Responding to people when I think they are overreacting or over-projecting in one direction or the other to try to bring the conversation back to center / fair value

Maybe I've been doing too much of 5 recently. But it's funny, for a long time (including most of this year) I felt my posts in group 5 were usually on the side of "stop bitching so much, we are still doing pretty well." Recently I actually have been more on the side of "some folks are being overly defensive - this year actually has been a disappointment." To be clear, I'm still quite happy we have CC as our coach, I just think it's okay to call a spade a spade this year, take some lessons away from it, and look for ways we can improve in the next 2 years. Maybe I'm wrong.

Who knows, maybe we'll take 5 straight in Chicago next weekend and flip the entire thing around. Anyone want to guess the chances of that? I'll throw out 200/1...

 

[hdhntr1]

I definitely appreciate your posts. I hope you keep posting.

The one thing I'll say is - if you think the current state of the board is "bitching and moaning", you must not have been here doing the Carmody years (or see what happens on the football board if you bring up our prior OL coach). For the most part (there are maybe 2-3 exceptions, people that do legitimately "***** and moan"), I think a significant majority of people have been making honest (and, depending on your opinion, possibly fair) observations about things that have gone wrong this year and trying to figure out whether it will improve going forward. I actually don't know if I've seen a single person say they don't want Collins as a HC (might be wrong there, I'm sure I've missed one of the crazies state that). For the most part though, people have said something to the effect of "I think Collins is the answer long-term, we are just in a bit of a rough patch now, there are some questions we should be asking and things we can learn from the last 2 years."

So I hope you don't think that I'm bitching and moaning. If you do, let me know, I can moderate or just stay out of the conversation. I do think you've been a bit on the defensive side recently, but you certainly have an interesting perspective and I appreciate your posts.

Thinking generally, I tend to post something for one of a few reasons:
1. Observations from a game that just happened (strangely, I do this much more often after a win than a loss...)
2. Pregame thoughts, questions, analysis
3. Assigning power rankings, or trying to estimate the probability of X happening
4. Once in a blue moon I will think I have a useful data point or some analysis
5. Responding to people when I think they are overreacting or over-projecting in one direction or the other to try to bring the conversation back to center / fair value

Maybe I've been doing too much of 5 recently. But it's funny, for a long time (including most of this year) I felt my posts in group 5 were usually on the side of "stop bitching so much, we are still doing pretty well." Recently I actually have been more on the side of "some folks are being overly defensive - this year actually has been a disappointment." To be clear, I'm still quite happy we have CC as our coach, I just think it's okay to call a spade a spade this year, take some lessons away from it, and look for ways we can improve in the next 2 years. Maybe I'm wrong.

Who knows, maybe we'll take 5 straight in Chicago next weekend and flip the entire thing around. Anyone want to guess the chances of that? I'll throw out 200/1...

I don't think too many are not disappointed with the way this year has gone. And the staff is responsible for the overall performance. However some things happen outside of their control. How can one prepare for what happened with Lathon? It it is something that happens every other year then having it happen was something that had to be prepared for. However, out of about 1000 D 1 recruits per year, how often does it happen? Especially that late in the process with no coaching change and the amount of due diligence that NU goes through. We are talking a guy who had been cleared by admissions and had signed his letter of intent. Sorry, I can not blame that on CCC and staff. The injury to Law and Ash is another thing that it is hard to hold the staff responsible for. And while injuries happen, Law is a guy that most programs would find difficult to do without or with diminished capacity

What the staff can be held accountable for is what they did with the hand dealt them. Did they put the team in a position to win. The number of close calls indicates that they did not a fair job in this. Could they have done better? Maybe. But they do not play the game. Players have to execute and this year, they often did not.

I consider this year to have been a lot of bad luck coupled with horrendous timing and perhaps a bad decision or two mixed in. So now we look at what has been done or is being done about it to limit the possibility of it happening again.

Basically I look at this year as a lot of bad luck and bad timing

 

[ricko6543211]

I don't think too many are not disappointed with the way this year has gone. And the staff is responsible for the overall performance. However some things happen outside of their control. How can one prepare for what happened with Lathon? It it is something that happens every other year then having it happen was something that had to be prepared for. However, out of about 1000 D 1 recruits per year, how often does it happen? Especially that late in the process with no coaching change and the amount of due diligence that NU goes through. We are talking a guy who had been cleared by admissions and had signed his letter of intent. Sorry, I can not blame that on CCC and staff. The injury to Law and Ash is another thing that it is hard to hold the staff responsible for. And while injuries happen, Law is a guy that most programs would find difficult to do without or with diminished capacity

What the staff can be held accountable for is what they did with the hand dealt them. Did they put the team in a position to win. The number of close calls indicates that they did not a fair job in this. Could they have done better? Maybe. But they do not play the game. Players have to execute and this year, they often did not.

I consider this year to have been a lot of bad luck coupled with horrendous timing and perhaps a bad decision or two mixed in. So now we look at what has been done or is being done about it to limit the possibility of it happening again.

Basically I look at this year as a lot of bad luck and bad timing

My point is precisely counter to your first point - to some extent, something "outside of their control" is going to happen every year. It's quite rare that everyone you expect to be on the roster plays a full season, and plays to their full abilities. I agree the probability of that specific thing happening with Lathon is quite low, but the probability of *something* happening to a starter or other key contributor is pretty high (i.e. what are the chances of that specific Kevin Coble situation... nonetheless, it did, sh** happens, injuries happen too). I think all the "woe is us" cries of bad luck this year are a bit disingenuous.