OT: A study on intermittent fasting, preliminary results are alarming.

LionJim

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I wouldn’t normally post something like this but this seems quite out of kilter. As the link states, a lot of further study needs to be done.

 
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Tgar

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EricStratton-RushChairman

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I tried this for a while and found that without constant attention to the quality of calories, I tended to eat poorly during the 8 hours... or at least had to fight temptation to eat poorly.

For me, the only thing that has worked to bring my BMI down, and stay down, is to go on 4 week "zero carb/keto" cycles every 3 months or so.

Additionally, I read the book, The Case Against Sugar, and it changed my entire opinion about moderate sugar intake.
 

Moogy

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I wouldn’t normally post something like this but this seems quite out of kilter. As the link says, a lot of further study needs to be done.


So much time and attention given to the latest fads when all you need to do is eat in moderation, eat fairly healthy and exercise. It's really that simple.

You don't need to starve yourself for periods of time, or only ingest meat, or vegetables, or eliminate entire lines of food, or whatever the latest-cool-kid trend is. It's not worth the potential drawbacks to mess with this stuff unless you just like to conduct human experiments on yourself or have some obsessive-compulsive and addictive feelings you feel the need to work out on yourself.
 

LionJim

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So much time and attention given to the latest fads when all you need to do is eat in moderation, eat fairly healthy and exercise. It's really that simple.

You don't need to starve yourself for periods of time, or only ingest meat, or vegetables, or eliminate entire lines of food, or whatever the latest-cool-kid trend is. It's not worth the potential drawbacks to mess with this stuff unless you just like to conduct human experiments on yourself or have some obsessive-compulsive and addictive feelings you feel the need to work out on yourself.
Yeah, it’s not real complicated. Not easy either, but that’s another story. You didn’t get fat overnight, you won’t lose weight overnight.
 
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psuro

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I have done the Intermittent Fasting, and it does work - but I also worked out 6 days a week.

One of the issues is that you replace carbs with fats and proteins. And when you do it (especially if keto), you lose out on a lot of root vegetables and lose out on necessary vitamins. Most people (including myself) who do the IF also do keto as part of it, and the increase in red meat consumption is a potential risk.
 
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Bwifan

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I tried this for a while and found that without constant attention to the quality of calories, I tended to eat poorly during the 8 hours... or at least had to fight temptation to eat poorly.

For me, the only thing that has worked to bring my BMI down, and stay down, is to go on 4 week "zero carb/keto" cycles every 3 months or so.

Additionally, I read the book, The Case Against Sugar, and it changed my entire opinion about moderate sugar intake.

Good info.... for me it truly is a matter of burning more calories than I take in. If I do that I can keep my weight around 185. All these other things work initially but for me the one thing that works is limiting my intake and working out to burn off more than I take in.
 

psuro

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Good info.... for me it truly is a matter of burning more calories than I take in. If I do that I can keep my weight around 185. All these other things work initially but for me the one thing that works is limiting my intake and working out to burn off more than I take in.
It's a good principle. What helped me was to use an app to track the calories in and burned. As long as I was honest with myself, it was fine.
 

nittanyfan333

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I tried this for a while and found that without constant attention to the quality of calories, I tended to eat poorly during the 8 hours... or at least had to fight temptation to eat poorly.

For me, the only thing that has worked to bring my BMI down, and stay down, is to go on 4 week "zero carb/keto" cycles every 3 months or so.

Additionally, I read the book, The Case Against Sugar, and it changed my entire opinion about moderate sugar intake.


sugar is the freaking devil.... the insulin response that sugar causes is so bad for you from a fat storage standpoint. that includes refined carbs since they turn into glucose and cause the same insulin response. If people would just stick to natural carbs (fruits and veggies) And get rid of sugar/pasta/bread it would change their life.
 

Obliviax

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I tried this for a while and found that without constant attention to the quality of calories, I tended to eat poorly during the 8 hours... or at least had to fight temptation to eat poorly.

For me, the only thing that has worked to bring my BMI down, and stay down, is to go on 4 week "zero carb/keto" cycles every 3 months or so.

Additionally, I read the book, The Case Against Sugar, and it changed my entire opinion about moderate sugar intake.
A comedian, a woman, used to say "stay away from processed white sugar, processed white bread and processed white men."
 

EricStratton-RushChairman

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Good info.... for me it truly is a matter of burning more calories than I take in. If I do that I can keep my weight around 185. All these other things work initially but for me the one thing that works is limiting my intake and working out to burn off more than I take in.
The biggest misconception out there is all calories are created equal. They are not. The sugar lobby had done an amazing job misguiding the public
 
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EricStratton-RushChairman

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sugar is the freaking devil.... the insulin response that sugar causes is so bad for you from a fat storage standpoint. that includes refined carbs since they turn into glucose and cause the same insulin response. If people would just stick to natural carbs (fruits and veggies) And get rid of sugar/pasta/bread it would change their life.
Absolutely dead on accurate
 
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Tgar

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sugar is the freaking devil.... the insulin response that sugar causes is so bad for you from a fat storage standpoint. that includes refined carbs since they turn into glucose and cause the same insulin response. If people would just stick to natural carbs (fruits and veggies) And get rid of sugar/pasta/bread it would change their life.
Gave up on the sugar and increased hydration a long time ago. Will politely disagree or point out two options. Basmati rice has a lower glycemic index than other starches.

On a food tour one morning in Rome, we sampled true Al dente pasta which when prepared that way apparently has a slower release of sugars as well. The guide pointed out it was a major difference between an American diet and a Mediterranean / Italian diet ( along with portions ) that allowed for pasta to be consumed regularly without developing diabetes. We tend to over cook our pasta in the US.

Sugar is the devil, same with serving size. A “ serving “ of Creamery ice cream is 2/3 of a cup and approximately 20 grams of sugar. A cone has to be Three cups worth.
 
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Grant Green

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I tried this for a while and found that without constant attention to the quality of calories, I tended to eat poorly during the 8 hours... or at least had to fight temptation to eat poorly.

For me, the only thing that has worked to bring my BMI down, and stay down, is to go on 4 week "zero carb/keto" cycles every 3 months or so.

Additionally, I read the book, The Case Against Sugar, and it changed my entire opinion about moderate sugar intake.
Yeah, I saw a 60 minutes piece on sugar a while ago and came away with the same reaction. I still eat sweet stuff, but definitely try to limit sugar intake as much as possible. Do you recall what the book said was too much? What were some of your biggest take-aways?
 

BW Lion

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Yeah, I saw a 60 minutes piece on sugar a while ago and came away with the same reaction. I still eat sweet stuff, but definitely try to limit sugar intake as much as possible. Do you recall what the book said was too much? What were some of your biggest take-aways?
Wife and I read the original edition of this book 20+ years ago and still follow.

Sugar Busters.
 

Got GSPs

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wbcbus

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My whole life I've been an intermittent faster just because I've never been into breakfast. So 99% of my life I don't eat between 9 pm and noon. My heart health is fine, so I have to assume there's more to this.
 
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LionJim

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My whole life I've been an intermittent faster just because I've never been into breakfast. So 99% of my life I don't eat between 9 pm and noon. My heart health is fine, so I have to assume there's more to this.
I’m sure there’s more to this. 91% is too high.
 

nittanyfan333

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Gave up on the sugar and increased hydration a long time ago. Will politely disagree or point out two options. Basmati rice has a lower glycemic index than other starches.

On a food tour one morning in Rome, we sampled true Al dente pasta which when prepared that way apparently has a slower release of sugars as well. The guide pointed out it was a major difference between an American diet and a Mediterranean / Italian diet ( along with portions ) that allowed for pasta to be consumed regularly without developing diabetes. We tend to over cook our pasta in the US.

Sugar is the devil, same with serving size. A “ serving “ of Creamery ice cream is 2/3 of a cup and approximately 20 grams of sugar. A cone has to be Three cups worth.

I had no idea about the al dente vs overcooked pasta deal. super interesting, but when you think about it, makes total sense. overcooking pasta breaks down the bonds and makes it more easily digestible.

You mentioned it twice, but I think it bears repeating: serving size.... A friend of mine started seeing a dietician and did a food diary for a week. she didn't realize that the creamer she was using had a serving size of 1 tbs. in that 1 tbs there were 6g of sugar. she measured how much she used each cup and it ended up being an average of 1/4 cup, which is 24g of sugar. times 3 cups of coffee a day and she's BEFORE LUNCH consuming 75g of sugar. that's equivalent to 6 tbsp of granulated sugar. in about a 2 hour span. just think about that.....

few years ago I tried the zone diet. it's predicated on the 40/30/30 (carb/protein/fat) split, which consists of blocks of food at the macro level with each block being 9g (carb) / 7g (pro) / 1.5g (f) and you get an allocated amount of blocks a day. it takes some time to get used to and can be a bit convoluted, but you can eat what you want you just have to look at portions. You can have your sandwich sure, but a single slice of bread is 2 blocks, so a whole sandwich is 4 blocks of carbs and if you're on a 4 block meal that's your entire allotment of carbs for that meal (plus sandwich meat and maybe mayo as your fat). OR..... you can have 6ozs of salmon (4 blocks of P), 3 cups of cooked broccoli (1 block carb), 2 cups of sliced cucumber (1 block carb), 1.5 cups of snow peas (1 block carb), 1/4 cup hummus (1 block carb) and 12 almonds (4 blocks fat) and have the same amount of nutrition from a macronutrient level??

sorry.... went down the rabbit hole, but I agree 100% with what you said about serving size. people don't realize how badly they're busting serving size and blowing their macros out of the water... if the average person would measure and diary their food for 2 days they'd be shocked at how much garbage they're eating
 
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nittanyfan333

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I’m sure there’s more to this. 91% is too high.


not jsut that, but when you look at the method of the "study" it's a bit.... janky.... at best

The study looked at answers to questionnaires along with death data from 2003 through 2019. Because it relied in part on forms that required patients to recall what they ate over two days, scientists said there was room for potential inaccuracies. About half of the patients were men and the mean age was 48.

It wasn’t clear how long the patients continued the intermittent fasting, though the researchers assumed they kept it up, according to Zhong.

I also found another article that brings up more issues with the study. one of the big things

8-hour time-restricted eating linked to a 91% higher risk of cardiovascular death | American Heart Association

The study’s limitations included its reliance on self-reported dietary information, which may be affected by participant’s memory or recall and may not accurately assess typical eating patterns. Factors that may also play a role in health, outside of daily duration of eating and cause of death, were not included in the analysis.

Future research may examine the biological mechanisms that underly the associations between a time-restricted eating schedule and adverse cardiovascular outcomes, and whether these findings are similar for people who live in other parts of the world, the authors noted.

“Overall, this study suggests that time-restricted eating may have short-term benefits but long-term adverse effects. When the study is presented in its entirety, it will be interesting and helpful to learn more of the details of the analysis,” said Christopher D. Gardner, Ph.D., FAHA, the Rehnborg Farquhar Professor of Medicine at Stanford University in Stanford, California, and chair of the writing committee for the Association’s 2023 scientific statement, Popular Dietary Patterns: Alignment with American Heart Association 2021 Dietary Guidance.

“One of those details involves the nutrient quality of the diets typical of the different subsets of participants. Without this information, it cannot be determined if nutrient density might be an alternate explanation to the findings that currently focus on the window of time for eating. Second, it needs to be emphasized that categorization into the different windows of time-restricted eating was determined on the basis of just two days of dietary intake,” he said.

“It will also be critical to see a comparison of demographics and baseline characteristics across the groups that were classified into the different time-restricted eating windows – for example, was the group with the shortest time-restricted eating window unique compared to people who followed other eating schedules, in terms of weight, stress, traditional cardiometabolic risk factors or other factors associated with adverse cardiovascular outcomes? This additional information will help to better understand the potential independent contribution of the short time-restricted eating pattern reported in this interesting and provocative abstract.”


but to me, the BIG issue is that they compared annual NHANES quastionnaires with death data from the same time frame... that jsut feels really sketchy to me to publish a study on...

In this study, researchers investigated the potential long-term health impact of following an 8-hour time-restricted eating plan. They reviewed information about dietary patterns for participants in the annual 2003-2018 National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) in comparison to data about people who died in the U.S., from 2003 through December 2019, from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Death Index database.
 
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NittPicker

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I don't know how popular it was but years ago I knew some people who were doing a "nothing white" diet. They did what they could to minimize how much white food/ingredients they ate. Sugar, salt, white bread, etc. It made sense but I never tried it.

A simple diet tip I've heard is never eat anything which comes in a bag. No chips, pretzels, fast food, etc. Can't argue with that.
 
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PSU Mike

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Can we assign certain posters to the fasting group for a new study?
 

PSU Mike

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So much time and attention given to the latest fads when all you need to do is eat in moderation, eat fairly healthy and exercise. It's really that simple.

You don't need to starve yourself for periods of time, or only ingest meat, or vegetables, or eliminate entire lines of food, or whatever the latest-cool-kid trend is. It's not worth the potential drawbacks to mess with this stuff unless you just like to conduct human experiments on yourself or have some obsessive-compulsive and addictive feelings you feel the need to work out on yourself.
What percentage of Americans would opt for a pill over all of that? The unpleasant truth is, as a whole, Americans are lazy SOBs. That assertion goes beyond physical health, and holds for mental stimulation as well. I get social demerits all the time when people hear the way I think about things. If you thought that response got left back in middle school you’d be wrong.
 

Moogy

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sugar is the freaking devil.... the insulin response that sugar causes is so bad for you from a fat storage standpoint. that includes refined carbs since they turn into glucose and cause the same insulin response. If people would just stick to natural carbs (fruits and veggies) And get rid of sugar/pasta/bread it would change their life.

Give me a study ... identical twins, preferably ... one that consumes X amount of calories per day with Y activity level, but that X amount of calories includes substantial sugar/pasta/bread ... and the other twin also consumes X amount of calories per day with the same Y activity level, but that X amount of calories includes fruits and veggies but little to no sugar/pasta/bread.
 

Moogy

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Yeah, it’s not real complicated. Not easy either, but that’s another story. You didn’t get fat overnight, you won’t lose weight overnight.

Right ... and that's where most of the value in these trends come from ... they keep you from ingesting too much food by cutting off X, Y or Z. Moderation requires constant monitoring and assessment of everything, whereas cutting off this food group, or not eating at this time, just requires a singular focus. And then every trend claims that's not the case ... that this one really changes your metabolism, or controls insulin ... blah, blah, blah.
 
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DaytonRickster

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I wouldn’t normally post something like this but this seems quite out of kilter. As the link states, a lot of further study needs to be done.

One of my physicians was speaking with me about this 1 yr ago. He was a proponent. I declined to go that route. I still say everything in moderation. I am careful what I eat but I eat three meals a day, exercise and try to minimize sugar intake. I rarely drink soda or other surgery drinks, don't drink alcohol or smoke. I eat lots of chicken, some fish, some red meat, pork, veggies, berries, and nuts. We have to decide for ourselves.
 
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LionJim

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Yeah, it’s not real complicated. Not easy either, but that’s another story. You didn’t get fat overnight, you won’t get to your target weight overnight.
Fixed. I get anal about being precise. It’s my training, I suppose.
 

Moogy

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Fixed. I get anal about being precise. It’s my training, I suppose.
I only get anal about once a year, max. I don't get to train for it. I'm not very precise either. Wait, what were we talking about again?
 
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slwlion01

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I wouldn’t normally post something like this but this seems quite out of kilter. As the link states, a lot of further study needs to be done.

I still fast intermittently and made it to 84. And still maintain my Lenten fast. Just lucky and blessed I guess.
 
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slwlion01

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