OT: Lest we forget ... on this December 7th
- Thread starter Alaskawildkat
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It's really kind of amazing to visit Hickam field and see the hangars that still have broken glass and bullet holes in them from 12/7/1941.
Amendment: I actually meant Ford Island, not Hickam Field. Hickam is still an active air force base. Ford Island was a Navy airstation during the war. The hangars are still there, but the runways aren't.
Amendment: I actually meant Ford Island, not Hickam Field. Hickam is still an active air force base. Ford Island was a Navy airstation during the war. The hangars are still there, but the runways aren't.
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I visited Pearl a few years back with my wife and kids and was really overcome with emotion from the whole experience. The only regretful part of the whole visit was watching some Japanese tourists there acting as if they were visiting Disney Land. No perspective or respect.
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Did anyone else catch that Edward Shames, the last surviving member of Easy Company, just passed away at 99?
He lived quite the life and used Hitler’s special cognac to toast at his son’s bar mitzvah (…not sure how I feel about that). I should rewatch “Band of Brothers” one of these years. Incredible show.
FYI to any of our fans in Virginia: his funeral is this Sunday in Norfolk. If I lived nearby I’d certainly go to pay my respects.
He lived quite the life and used Hitler’s special cognac to toast at his son’s bar mitzvah (…not sure how I feel about that). I should rewatch “Band of Brothers” one of these years. Incredible show.
FYI to any of our fans in Virginia: his funeral is this Sunday in Norfolk. If I lived nearby I’d certainly go to pay my respects.
I stood an early Sunday morning quarterdeck watch on the USS Enterprise, docked across from Ford Island, in cloudy late November, and it was one of eeriest experiences of my life. This was after a night out at the O Club in Honolulu which had very much the feeling of WWII due to the architecture, the dress and the music.
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Thanks for posting that link. Reading the bio I was surprised to learn that he and my uncle may have crossed paths. Like Edward Shames my uncle also parachuted in at Normandy and also like him he was one of the first U.S. soldiers to go into one of the Concentration Camps.
It wasn't until recent years just before his passing that he was able to talk about the later experience. One of the things he shared with me was finding a ball peen hammer that apparently had been used to knock gold fillings out of teeth. He also talked about how weak the survivors were and how he and his comrades attempted to give them water from their canteens and how difficult it was for them to even swallow.
If I remember correctly, the ovens were still burning and there were bones or bodies stacked up like firewood.
In reading about Buchenwald's history later I learned that the Soviets took it over and they treated the Germans they rounded up and kept there just as cruelly.
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I bet the Japanese feel the same way when Americans do the same at Hiroshima. What you should be pissed about is that our leaders back then knew they were coming and didn't bother telling any of the commanders at Pearl or Hickam, but made sure the modern ships and the carriers were out on manuevers well beforehand. Also, what do you think those Japanese tourists were supposed to do? In 1997 I did a study abroad in St. Petersburg Russia and saw the mass graves of the siege. At least 42 huge mounds I counted with 50,000 dead in each mound. We were blown away by it all, but I bet some Russians thought we were not respectful enough either.
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The oil drops from the ship below pictured here as they rose to the surface on December 3, 2019 - 78 years after the sinking:
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And a portion of the USS Arizona that pierces the surface adjacent to the Memorial:
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I have never been to Hiroshima but I doubt Americans go there laughing out loud, joking around while taking pictures as if they were at Disney World. If any Americans do that, then they are also insensitive idiots. .
Dachau was in the American zone -- it's just north of Munich -- and was never under Soviet occupation.
I believe you may be confusing it with Buchenwald, which was in the Soviet zone, and was designated NKVD Special Camp #2 after the war. Sachsenhausen was similarly designated NKVD Special camp #7. One brutal, vicious dictatorship replaced another.
I think a lot of younger Japanese have only the sketchiest idea of the history of their country in the 1930s and 1940s. It's embarassing, therefore not talked about.
I agree with this. Having worked with a lot of Japanese, I think culturally they have difficulty being critical of their superiors, institutions and certainly fire eaters. They whitewash their history. That may explain what I saw at Pearl but it still does not excuse it. from speaking with others who have been frequent visitors at Pearl, they indicated my experience is not unique. Japanese inundate Oahu and they don’t seem to have any sense of historical perspective whatsoever.
I think this is true of younger generations in many countries, and sad to say it's starting to apply to the US too with how a lot of history/textbooks are being whitewashed of the dirtier parts of history. There's a scale to everything of course, and the US is nowhere near where a country like China is on that scale, but it's concerning how many young Americans learn a very "cleaned up" version of the events of the 1800s and 1900s compared to even just 20 or 30 years ago.
It's just taboo to talk about the mass deaths/starvations/etc. that happened in countries like Russia/China or Japan/Germany (and their allies) WWII aggression. And so young people often learn very little about it and it ends up being a subject blocked off from memory to a certain extent by society. France is an example of a country that doesn't teach any of its people about racial/ethnic issues historically and pretends that they've always been a perfect egalitarian society (which anybody that knows anything about France knows is a total fabrication).
The blunt reality is just that every country has an element of nationalism to an extent, and you have a collective mindset that seeks to focus on a cleaner version of history than the actual results. In some countries like China or Russia, that effect ends up being very overwhelming and distorts the history that people there learn significantly.
If you go to visit concentration camps/museums in Germany, you will find plenty of tourists that don't really understand the seriousness of what happened in WWII there because they either didn't learn much about it or because it was glossed over. Many of them treat those types of visits as if they're at a theme park which is outrageous..., but it's a product of what they're taught.
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You are correct. It was Buchenwald Concentration camp that my Uncle helped liberate, It was then taken over by the Soviets.
One of its claims to fame was the camp leader’s wife known as the Witch of Buchenwald as she reportedly had lampshades made from human skin.
I have actually visited Dachau just outside of Munich . It was a humbling experience from the Arbeit macht frie ( Work makes free) entrance banner to the reconstructed barracks and Never Again memorial.
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You doubt Americans act like idiots when abroad? American tourists have a well earned reputation for a reason
I will never forget my visit my visit to Auschwitz. It was a beautiful, sunny warm spring day. I just remember the quiet as we walked along tracks and through the gates. It was surreal.
And you didn't have to go into an oven. Very lucky you (us). There, but the grace of god..... Herein lies why we must preserve our free and open society, currently imperiled.
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AWC always starts threads that result in thoughtful discussion without the animosity that existed on The Rock. I miss hearing and learning from the opinions of others and hope The Rock could be resurrected under the guidelines of civility. The personal attacks on others for sharing their opinions were uncalled for. I hope The Rock arises again and the moderators ban posting by anyone that violates the simple tenet of " no personal attacks" Attack opinions with your own opinions, which may or not be any more valid than those you disagree with.
Today's funeral of Bob Dole showed the respect that people with differing opinions, beliefs and backgrounds have for each other and I could never understand the need to "attack" others, shielded by the anonymity of the internet.
I hope The Rock returns
Today's funeral of Bob Dole showed the respect that people with differing opinions, beliefs and backgrounds have for each other and I could never understand the need to "attack" others, shielded by the anonymity of the internet.
I hope The Rock returns
Are you referring to The Rant (board)? It could be called The Rocky board.
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Obviously, but docrugby’s suggestion for a replacement forum that would land between the rock and the formerly hard place is a good one,