OT - Rule changes you would like to see to improve the game

[eastbaycat99]

Since the Cats are struggling, I thought I would throw out a topic that doesn’t focus on their lack of a point guard.

Rule revisions have changed the game a lot in my lifetime. I played before and during the prohibition on dunks. The introduction of the shot clock in college and high school, and certainly the 3 point line changed the game radically. Recently, the addition of restricted arc and revision to the 5 second rule have had smaller effects. The shot clock and 3 point shot have really improved the game, in my estimation.

My question is whether you have a rule change you would like to see enacted in college and high school ball (e.g. using the international lane to open movement)?

A change to address a pet peeve I have is in how non-shooting fouls are assessed, and the effect they have on some key plays. Specifically, since the whistle stops play and the ref awards an out of bounds possession, one and one free throw opportunity or 2 free throws, sometimes a basket the offense has earned by making a great cut over a pick or entry pass is waved off due to a floor foul before the shot is started. As a fan, this always seems to happen when my team is in a scoring drought, and someone like Pardon gets a pass, takes one dribble and dunks. On the foul my player always seems to miss the front end of a one and one and the drought continues.
The change I would like to see is to make a non-shooting foul the equivalent of the delayed penalty in hockey. Let the ref arm signal the foul but let play continue. If the offense scores, momentarily stop play, have the ref let the scorer know on whom the foul was called, and change possession. If a field goal isn’t scored, stop play on change of possession and either award the free throws or possession to th offensive team. Finally, if a second foul occurs before change of possession, award a single free throw for it if it is on defense, or consider the possession a held ball if the foul is on the offense.

Anyway, any thoughts?

 

[NJCat]

Since the Cats are struggling, I thought I would throw out a topic that doesn’t focus on their lack of a point guard.

Rule revisions have changed the game a lot in my lifetime. I played before and during the prohibition on dunks. The introduction of the shot clock in college and high school, and certainly the 3 point line changed the game radically. Recently, the addition of restricted arc and revision to the 5 second rule have had smaller effects.

My question is whether you have a rule change you would like to see enacted in college and high school ball (e.g. using the international lane to open movement)?

A change to address a pet peeve I have is in how non-shooting fouls are assessed, and the effect they have on some key plays. Specifically, since the whistle stops play and the ref awards an out of bounds possession, one and one free throw opportunity or 2 free throws, sometimes a basket the offense has earned by making a great cut over a pick or entry pass is waved off due to a floor foul before the shot is started. As a fan, this always seems to happen when my team is in a scoring drought, and someone like Pardon gets a pass, takes one dribble and dunks. On the foul my player always seems to miss the front end of a one and one and the drought continues.
The change I would like to see is to make a non-shooting foul the equivalent of the delayed penalty in hockey. Let the ref arm signal the foul but let play continue. If the offense scores, momentarily stop play, have the ref let the scorer know on whom the foul was called, and change possession. If a field goal isn’t scored, stop play on change of possession and either award the free throws or possession to th offensive team. Finally, if a second foul occurs before change of possession, award a single free throw for it if it is on defense, or consider the possession a held ball if the foul is on the offense.

Anyway, any thoughts?

I like your idea.

I'd like them to go to 6 fouls. Nobody wants to see good players sit. Maybe make the 5th and 6th foul a 3 shot FT attempt or something, but I'd rather have players in the game.

 

[PurpleFaze]

I like your idea.

I'd like them to go to 6 fouls. Nobody wants to see good players sit. Maybe make the 5th and 6th foul a 3 shot FT attempt or something, but I'd rather have players in the game.

Either that or get the refs to quit calling so many blah fouls. Sometimes the games become unwatchable with zero flow. Id prefer they err on the side of too few than too many fouls.

 

[TheC]

I want to see the designated hitter in both leagues.

Oh.... wait... wrong board. I thought this was the football/MLB board.

(And I don't really want the DH in the National League, but saw the report today that its being discussed again.)

 

[torque-cat]

Either that or get the refs to quit calling so many blah fouls. Sometimes the games become unwatchable with zero flow. Id prefer they err on the side of too few than too many fouls.

Totally agree. Stop with calling fouls when the offensive player is initiating contact or pretending like he got slammed. Ruins the flow and is bogus. Defensive players should be allowed their space and if the offense initiates contact call it on them.

 

[willycat]

Since the Cats are struggling, I thought I would throw out a topic that doesn’t focus on their lack of a point guard.

Rule revisions have changed the game a lot in my lifetime. I played before and during the prohibition on dunks. The introduction of the shot clock in college and high school, and certainly the 3 point line changed the game radically. Recently, the addition of restricted arc and revision to the 5 second rule have had smaller effects. The shot clock and 3 point shot have really improved the game, in my estimation.

My question is whether you have a rule change you would like to see enacted in college and high school ball (e.g. using the international lane to open movement)?

A change to address a pet peeve I have is in how non-shooting fouls are assessed, and the effect they have on some key plays. Specifically, since the whistle stops play and the ref awards an out of bounds possession, one and one free throw opportunity or 2 free throws, sometimes a basket the offense has earned by making a great cut over a pick or entry pass is waved off due to a floor foul before the shot is started. As a fan, this always seems to happen when my team is in a scoring drought, and someone like Pardon gets a pass, takes one dribble and dunks. On the foul my player always seems to miss the front end of a one and one and the drought continues.
The change I would like to see is to make a non-shooting foul the equivalent of the delayed penalty in hockey. Let the ref arm signal the foul but let play continue. If the offense scores, momentarily stop play, have the ref let the scorer know on whom the foul was called, and change possession. If a field goal isn’t scored, stop play on change of possession and either award the free throws or possession to th offensive team. Finally, if a second foul occurs before change of possession, award a single free throw for it if it is on defense, or consider the possession a held ball if the foul is on the offense.

Anyway, any thoughts?

Like your delayed foul rule change, as there are times the offensive player continues to the hoop and scores. let that score stand but charge the defender with a personal. Think that's the way they used to call it in the NBA but not sure about now, since I don't watch them.

 

[eastbaycat99]

In my original post in this thread, I referenced a really bad rule change, the no dunk rule.
For those of you too young to remember, in 1967 the NCAA banned dunking, a move generally attributed to the fact that Lew Alcindor ( before he changed his name to Kareem Abdul Jabber) was humiliating all manner of college centers by dunking over them, and more specifically, reverse dunking over them. Most high school governing boards went along with this, and a technical was assessed on any dunk in games or in pregame warm ups.
When I was a junior in high school, dunking was still allowed, and two of my teammates and I, them by means of height and talent and me by generous use of stickum, were able to dunk in our pregame warmup. We thought we were pretty cool and intimidating.
I went to an all-male Catholic high school in an unnamed Midwest city, and every year we had a grade school tournament for the Parochial schools in the diocese, largely as a recruiting event. In my junior year, the athletic director asked me to take responsibility for organizing the tournament, and gave me the contact info for all the grade schools. Most of the schools were all white, and had a predominant mix of Irish, German, Italian or Polish kids two or three generations removed from coming to the US.
It was a 32 team tournament, and it took a fair amount of work to fill the brackets. I called the coach of the team at one school who asked me, “you really want us to play at your place?”, to which I answered sure (I was trying to fill out the bracket) and he laughed a little, and said they would be glad to come play. As it turned out, they were one of two African-American schools in the diocese, which I did not know. They had pretty systematically been excluded from tournaments like ours.
In addition to organizing the tournament, I was also responsible for dragooning my teammates into reffing it. As luck would have it, I drew the duty for this school’s first game. They came out of the locker room to go into their pregame drill with 2 little kids, maybe 5th graders each dribbling 2 balls, leading the team into lay up lines. As each drove to the basket, each flipped the two balls over his shoulder to trailing players, who in turn did the same, passing one ball to each of the last four players, each of whom slammed a one handed dunk. I was standing at half court, in my striped shirt, and the coach of the other team walked up to me and asked “Really?”

The next year, when the rule was enacted, I understood why completely. As I said, it was a really bad rule!

 

[hdhntr1]

Since the Cats are struggling, I thought I would throw out a topic that doesn’t focus on their lack of a point guard.

Rule revisions have changed the game a lot in my lifetime. I played before and during the prohibition on dunks. The introduction of the shot clock in college and high school, and certainly the 3 point line changed the game radically. Recently, the addition of restricted arc and revision to the 5 second rule have had smaller effects. The shot clock and 3 point shot have really improved the game, in my estimation.

My question is whether you have a rule change you would like to see enacted in college and high school ball (e.g. using the international lane to open movement)?

A change to address a pet peeve I have is in how non-shooting fouls are assessed, and the effect they have on some key plays. Specifically, since the whistle stops play and the ref awards an out of bounds possession, one and one free throw opportunity or 2 free throws, sometimes a basket the offense has earned by making a great cut over a pick or entry pass is waved off due to a floor foul before the shot is started. As a fan, this always seems to happen when my team is in a scoring drought, and someone like Pardon gets a pass, takes one dribble and dunks. On the foul my player always seems to miss the front end of a one and one and the drought continues.
The change I would like to see is to make a non-shooting foul the equivalent of the delayed penalty in hockey. Let the ref arm signal the foul but let play continue. If the offense scores, momentarily stop play, have the ref let the scorer know on whom the foul was called, and change possession. If a field goal isn’t scored, stop play on change of possession and either award the free throws or possession to th offensive team. Finally, if a second foul occurs before change of possession, award a single free throw for it if it is on defense, or consider the possession a held ball if the foul is on the offense.

Anyway, any thoughts?

Law would have scored a couple more times the othernight. It is reasonable but how long would it be delayed? Till a stoppage of play or just until the person fouled finished the continuation?

 

[hdhntr1]

I like your idea.

I'd like them to go to 6 fouls. Nobody wants to see good players sit. Maybe make the 5th and 6th foul a 3 shot FT attempt or something, but I'd rather have players in the game.

I think the guy that used to coach ND would allow the guy to stay in but suggested an additional FT for each foul past 5

 

[hdhntr1]

Like your delayed foul rule change, as there are times the offensive player continues to the hoop and scores. let that score stand but charge the defender with a personal. Think that's the way they used to call it in the NBA but not sure about now, since I don't watch them.

Would it still be an and one?

 

[eastbaycat99]

Law would have scored a couple more times the othernight. It is reasonable but how long would it be delayed? Till a stoppage of play or just until the person fouled finished the continuation?

I would make it change of possession like in hockey.

 

[eastbaycat99]

Would it still be an and one?

I would keep it the same. If a field goal is scored, just record the foul. If not, either possession with 20 seconds, one and one or two shots depending on team foul count.

 

[hdhntr1]

I would keep it the same. If a field goal is scored, just record the foul. If not, either possession with 20 seconds, one and one or two shots depending on team foul count.

But on a regular foul in act of shooting it is an and one. Seems reasonable if it is a continuation. Just more like NBA continuation than NCAA

 

[eastbaycat99]

But on a regular foul in act of shooting it is an and one. Seems reasonable if it is a continuation. Just more like NBA continuation than NCAA

Act of shooting is different and would remain 2 shots or and one if made.

 

[Sec_112]

My pet peeve is more of a tendency by officials rather than a written rule.

I'd REALLY like to see the game called more closely when a guy accidentally trips or stumbles over a defender's feet. Just because someone trips doesn't mean it's a foul on the defender.

90% of the time an incidental trip is called a foul. (It's an official stat!! ) I'd bet 50% of the time there was no contact to cause it or it was simply incidental.

 

[Username Not Available]

I agree with Torque's comment regarding offensive players and would like to see fouls called on them when they initiate contact. I was tired a long time ago by the style of play that has ball handlers leaping into defenders and drawing fouls on the obvious pretense that they were just shooting. And can you imagine how post play might change if it weren't all about butt slamming defenders out of the way?

 

[willycat]

In my original post in this thread, I referenced a really bad rule change, the no dunk rule.
For those of you too young to remember, in 1967 the NCAA banned dunking, a move generally attributed to the fact that Lew Alcindor ( before he changed his name to Kareem Abdul Jabber) was humiliating all manner of college centers by dunking over them, and more specifically, reverse dunking over them. Most high school governing boards went along with this, and a technical was assessed on any dunk in games or in pregame warm ups.
When I was a junior in high school, dunking was still allowed, and two of my teammates and I, them by means of height and talent and me by generous use of stickum, were able to dunk in our pregame warmup. We thought we were pretty cool and intimidating.
I went to an all-male Catholic high school in an unnamed Midwest city, and every year we had a grade school tournament for the Parochial schools in the diocese, largely as a recruiting event. In my junior year, the athletic director asked me to take responsibility for organizing the tournament, and gave me the contact info for all the grade schools. Most of the schools were all white, and had a predominant mix of Irish, German, Italian or Polish kids two or three generations removed from coming to the US.
It was a 32 team tournament, and it took a fair amount of work to fill the brackets. I called the coach of the team at one school who asked me, “you really want us to play at your place?”, to which I answered sure (I was trying to fill out the bracket) and he laughed a little, and said they would be glad to come play. As it turned out, they were one of two African-American schools in the diocese, which I did not know. They had pretty systematically been excluded from tournaments like ours.
In addition to organizing the tournament, I was also responsible for dragooning my teammates into reffing it. As luck would have it, I drew the duty for this school’s first game. They came out of the locker room to go into their pregame drill with 2 little kids, maybe 5th graders each dribbling 2 balls, leading the team into lay up lines. As each drove to the basket, each flipped the two balls over his shoulder to trailing players, who in turn did the same, passing one ball to each of the last four players, each of whom slammed a one handed dunk. I was standing at half court, in my striped shirt, and the coach of the other team walked up to me and asked “Really?”

The next year, when the rule was enacted, I understood why completely. As I said, it was a really bad rule!

I seem to remember that the no dunking rule was also enforced during warm-ups. referees were on the floor and would charge a technical if someone duked. That had something to do with rims and backboards being damaged by dunks and costs and delayed that caused.

 

[eastbaycat99]

I seem to remember that the no dunking rule was also enforced during warm-ups. referees were on the floor and would charge a technical if someone duked. That had something to do with rims and backboards being damaged by dunks and costs and delayed that caused.

You are correct. I know the stated rationale was fear of breakage, but at the time we suspected it was a conspiracy against having fun!

 

[Styre]

I seem to remember that the no dunking rule was also enforced during warm-ups. referees were on the floor and would charge a technical if someone duked.

That rule was enforced all the way up until the 2015-16 season.

 

[hdhntr1]

You are correct. I know the stated rationale was fear of breakage, but at the time we suspected it was a conspiracy against having fun!

Originally it might have had something to do with the damage but also about people getting hurt. But the real reason was to stop Lew Alcindor. There was also the technical for hanging on the rim. Now you almost have to do a chin up. I can remember some backboards being destroyed. Glass shattered, rims bent etc, But they have upgraded the equipment and maybe it was at an in between time.

 

[hdhntr1]

That rule was enforced all the way up until the 2015-16 season.

Don't recall that

Dunking - “Alcindor” Rule. From 1967 to 1977, a no dunking rule was enacted in college basketball. The reasons given were to prevent basket damage and injuries. However, it was specifically aimed at stopping Lew Alcindor.

So it looks like the rule against was removed in 1976-77 season. But I guess not for pre game warm ups

Here is a list of rule changes and dates

http://www.orangehoops.org/NCAA/NCAA Rule Changes.htm

 

[Styre]

So it looks like the rule against was removed in 1976-77 season. But I guess not for pre game warm ups

As an example, Kansas State got dinged for pregame dunking in the 2014 NCAAs.