Outsider perspective on UK football...

[Coyote89_rivals121762]

Been a UGA fan and season ticket holder for decades, but I have one daughter at South Carolina and another at Kentucky, so it's been interesting to see things from the other side. I know some will point to the lack of signature wins and say not much has changed for UK, but I see progress.

The SEC is a brutally tough league to transform a program. Unless you cheat to land the 4-5 star prospects like Hugh Freeze did at Ole' Miss, 80% of the teams in the league are going to have an advantage on UK in overall talent and depth. After all, Kentucky is not a state that produces a ton of elite football talent. So, you either have to wait for a once-in-a-lifetime player to come along, or you have to build it slow and steady, like Stoops is doing right now, so you can start to land more elite out-of-state recruits. Reasons I think the program is ultimately moving in the right direction:

1. UK should be back in a bowl game this year for the first time since 2010. Don't underestimate the importance of this. Recruits need to know that UK is a place where they can win games and be part of the bowl season. Even if the program isn't in the title hunt, its becoming credible, which is key. Also, before you can realistically expect to catch and pass the traditional "big 3" in the East, you have to first become the best of the other 4 teams in the division. UK beat South Carolina, Vandy, and Missouri this year and is beginning to establish itself as the best of those 4 programs. It's progress.
   
   
2. UK has been making HUGE investments in facilities lately and has the overall look and feel of a legit SEC program. The stadium, the football building, all the new dorms, etc. It all looks great and that atmosphere last night was terrific. That is what SEC football looks and feels like.
   
   
3. In order to truly compete in the SEC, UK has to position itself as the SEC option for elite recruits from the Midwest. There simply aren't enough elite players in the state of Kentucky to compete with teams like Florida, Georgia, LSU, etc. and UK doesn't have a football brand like Bama that would enable them to pull kids from all over the country. What you can offer is this. Lexington is the closest SEC destination for recruits from Ohio, Illinois, western PA, etc. and a certain number of them will want to play in the SEC rather than the Big Ten. But in order to land those kids, #1 and 2 have to be in place first. Sure enough, 5 of your top 6 rated recruits for 2017 are from Ohio. Just stay the course with that and you'll eventually start shrinking the talent gap.
   
   I do wonder why there aren't more UK players from Illinois and Missouri however. When we talked to the admissions counselors at UK, they said the 3 cities outside of Kentucky and Ohio that they target for recruiting are Chicago, St. Louis, and Atlanta and you certainly see a TON of students from all three of those areas on campus. However, among those three target areas, only the state of Georgia seems to be represented on the football roster. Not sure why that is. Having large chunks of students from those areas should make it easier to recruit football prospects as well.

In any event, the way Mark Stoops is building UK football reminds me a bit of how Mark Fox has been trying to build UGA basketball. UGA's history has been abysmal in basketball. So, an overnight transformation just wasn't going to happen. Instead, it's been slow and painful, but the Dawgs are in the upper third of the SEC pretty regularly these days and could finally be poised for a breakthrough season. Investments in facilities and establishing some degree of stability were key to making that possible.

 

[jof2]

Very well said.

 

[louisvillesux]

well said man..well said. to think that we felt like we SHOULD have beat Georgia says alot.

 

[Coyote89_rivals121762]

Very well said.

Thanks, and almost everything I just said about football applies to UK baseball as well. The renderings and fly-through videos for new stadium look awesome and will help UK become a program of choice for elite baseball players from the Midwest as well. In fact, baseball could have unlimited upside because the Big Ten doesn't really have a nationally-competitive alternative.

 

[Coyote89_rivals121762]

well said man..well said. to think that we felt like we SHOULD have beat Georgia says alot.

I think most UGA fans would concede that the Dawgs were fortunate to win last night. Game easily could have gone the other way.

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

I honestly think snell is that once in a lifetime type player. The key is to keep him healthy, get a qb on the field to keep defenses honest and build some defensive depth that UK has only seen once every decade or 2.

When stoops focused on the defense it went from bad to respectable, so I think next year and perhaps the year after is where we might do something special.

 

[Random UK Fan]

not much has changed for UK, but I see progress.

Glad to hear your perspective on everything. The frustration the UGA fans have felt this season is all-too-familiar with UK fans. We have more scar tissue than heart. We would love to see an occasional down season like you guys, rather than the other way around.

 

[tuck66]

Been a UGA fan and season ticket holder for decades, but I have one daughter at South Carolina and another at Kentucky, so it's been interesting to see things from the other side. I know some will point to the lack of signature wins and say not much has changed for UK, but I see progress.

The SEC is a brutally tough league to transform a program. Unless you cheat to land the 4-5 star prospects like Hugh Freeze did at Ole' Miss, 80% of the teams in the league are going to have an advantage on UK in overall talent and depth. After all, Kentucky is not a state that produces a ton of elite football talent. So, you either have to wait for a once-in-a-lifetime player to come along, or you have to build it slow and steady, like Stoops is doing right now, so you can start to land more elite out-of-state recruits. Reasons I think the program is ultimately moving in the right direction:

1. UK should be back in a bowl game this year for the first time since 2010. Don't underestimate the importance of this. Recruits need to know that UK is a place where they can win games and be part of the bowl season. Even if the program isn't in the title hunt, its becoming credible, which is key. Also, before you can realistically expect to catch and pass the traditional "big 3" in the East, you have to first become the best of the other 4 teams in the division. UK beat South Carolina, Vandy, and Missouri this year and is beginning to establish itself as the best of those 4 programs. It's progress.
   
   
2. UK has been making HUGE investments in facilities lately and has the overall look and feel of a legit SEC program. The stadium, the football building, all the new dorms, etc. It all looks great and that atmosphere last night was terrific. That is what SEC football looks and feels like.
   
   
3. In order to truly compete in the SEC, UK has to position itself as the SEC option for elite recruits from the Midwest. There simply aren't enough elite players in the state of Kentucky to compete with teams like Florida, Georgia, LSU, etc. and UK doesn't have a football brand like Bama that would enable them to pull kids from all over the country. What you can offer is this. Lexington is the closest SEC destination for recruits from Ohio, Illinois, western PA, etc. and a certain number of them will want to play in the SEC rather than the Big Ten. But in order to land those kids, #1 and 2 have to be in place first. Sure enough, 5 of your top 6 rated recruits for 2017 are from Ohio. Just stay the course with that and you'll eventually start shrinking the talent gap.
   
   I do wonder why there aren't more UK players from Illinois and Missouri however. When we talked to the admissions counselors at UK, they said the 3 cities outside of Kentucky and Ohio that they target for recruiting are Chicago, St. Louis, and Atlanta and you certainly see a TON of students from all three of those areas on campus. However, among those three target areas, only the state of Georgia seems to be represented on the football roster. Not sure why that is. Having large chunks of students from those areas should make it easier to recruit football prospects as well.

In any event, the way Mark Stoops is building UK football reminds me a bit of how Mark Fox has been trying to build UGA basketball. UGA's history has been abysmal in basketball. So, an overnight transformation just wasn't going to happen. Instead, it's been slow and painful, but the Dawgs are in the upper third of the SEC pretty regularly these days and could finally be poised for a breakthrough season. Investments in facilities and establishing some degree of stability were key to making that possible.

Or wait until the rest of the league is down and then play your best ball and pull out the east.....oh wait.....that is the case this year. UK let a golden opportunity slip through their hands! I'd say not much has changed.....wish it had

 

[JDHoss]

Been a UGA fan and season ticket holder for decades, but I have one daughter at South Carolina and another at Kentucky, so it's been interesting to see things from the other side. I know some will point to the lack of signature wins and say not much has changed for UK, but I see progress.

The SEC is a brutally tough league to transform a program. Unless you cheat to land the 4-5 star prospects like Hugh Freeze did at Ole' Miss, 80% of the teams in the league are going to have an advantage on UK in overall talent and depth. After all, Kentucky is not a state that produces a ton of elite football talent. So, you either have to wait for a once-in-a-lifetime player to come along, or you have to build it slow and steady, like Stoops is doing right now, so you can start to land more elite out-of-state recruits. Reasons I think the program is ultimately moving in the right direction:

1. UK should be back in a bowl game this year for the first time since 2010. Don't underestimate the importance of this. Recruits need to know that UK is a place where they can win games and be part of the bowl season. Even if the program isn't in the title hunt, its becoming credible, which is key. Also, before you can realistically expect to catch and pass the traditional "big 3" in the East, you have to first become the best of the other 4 teams in the division. UK beat South Carolina, Vandy, and Missouri this year and is beginning to establish itself as the best of those 4 programs. It's progress.
   
   
2. UK has been making HUGE investments in facilities lately and has the overall look and feel of a legit SEC program. The stadium, the football building, all the new dorms, etc. It all looks great and that atmosphere last night was terrific. That is what SEC football looks and feels like.
   
   
3. In order to truly compete in the SEC, UK has to position itself as the SEC option for elite recruits from the Midwest. There simply aren't enough elite players in the state of Kentucky to compete with teams like Florida, Georgia, LSU, etc. and UK doesn't have a football brand like Bama that would enable them to pull kids from all over the country. What you can offer is this. Lexington is the closest SEC destination for recruits from Ohio, Illinois, western PA, etc. and a certain number of them will want to play in the SEC rather than the Big Ten. But in order to land those kids, #1 and 2 have to be in place first. Sure enough, 5 of your top 6 rated recruits for 2017 are from Ohio. Just stay the course with that and you'll eventually start shrinking the talent gap.
   
   I do wonder why there aren't more UK players from Illinois and Missouri however. When we talked to the admissions counselors at UK, they said the 3 cities outside of Kentucky and Ohio that they target for recruiting are Chicago, St. Louis, and Atlanta and you certainly see a TON of students from all three of those areas on campus. However, among those three target areas, only the state of Georgia seems to be represented on the football roster. Not sure why that is. Having large chunks of students from those areas should make it easier to recruit football prospects as well.

In any event, the way Mark Stoops is building UK football reminds me a bit of how Mark Fox has been trying to build UGA basketball. UGA's history has been abysmal in basketball. So, an overnight transformation just wasn't going to happen. Instead, it's been slow and painful, but the Dawgs are in the upper third of the SEC pretty regularly these days and could finally be poised for a breakthrough season. Investments in facilities and establishing some degree of stability were key to making that possible.

Just go away....articulate, well reasoned posts aren't welcomed here.....

 

[tuck66]

Fumblin' bumblin' stumblin'.....

 

[CatEye2010]

I honestly think snell is that once in a lifetime type player. The key is to keep him healthy, get a qb on the field to keep defenses honest and build some defensive depth that UK has only seen once every decade or 2.

When stoops focused on the defense it went from bad to respectable, so I think next year and perhaps the year after is where we might do something special.

To me, depth at QB is a huge problem. We should not have run off Towles; could have used him this year when DB went down. Johnson is a barely serviceable QB, for a lower level D1 or lower team. With a decent QB, we're a whole nother level to go with our running game.

 

[ukalum1988]

I honestly think snell is that once in a lifetime type player. The key is to keep him healthy, get a qb on the field to keep defenses honest and build some defensive depth that UK has only seen once every decade or 2.

When stoops focused on the defense it went from bad to respectable, so I think next year and perhaps the year after is where we might do something special.

When Snell lunged forward to make that first down at about the UGA 20, I sincerely thought would be the signature play to lead us to a TD to win the game. Obviously didn't pan out that way, but that shows me he plays with the heart of a champion, much like Randall Cobb.

I like to thank the OP for sharing his thoughts on the program. As to why the staff doesn't recruit Illinois and Missouri harder, I can only speculate that it's primarily because our staff doesn't have a lot of connections in those states. Also, from what little I follow regarding recruiting, those two states don't produce as many high D-1 prospects as you would think.

 

[why_not_kentucky]

Been a UGA fan and season ticket holder for decades, but I have one daughter at South Carolina and another at Kentucky, so it's been interesting to see things from the other side. I know some will point to the lack of signature wins and say not much has changed for UK, but I see progress.

The SEC is a brutally tough league to transform a program. Unless you cheat to land the 4-5 star prospects like Hugh Freeze did at Ole' Miss, 80% of the teams in the league are going to have an advantage on UK in overall talent and depth. After all, Kentucky is not a state that produces a ton of elite football talent. So, you either have to wait for a once-in-a-lifetime player to come along, or you have to build it slow and steady, like Stoops is doing right now, so you can start to land more elite out-of-state recruits. Reasons I think the program is ultimately moving in the right direction:

1. UK should be back in a bowl game this year for the first time since 2010. Don't underestimate the importance of this. Recruits need to know that UK is a place where they can win games and be part of the bowl season. Even if the program isn't in the title hunt, its becoming credible, which is key. Also, before you can realistically expect to catch and pass the traditional "big 3" in the East, you have to first become the best of the other 4 teams in the division. UK beat South Carolina, Vandy, and Missouri this year and is beginning to establish itself as the best of those 4 programs. It's progress.
   
   
2. UK has been making HUGE investments in facilities lately and has the overall look and feel of a legit SEC program. The stadium, the football building, all the new dorms, etc. It all looks great and that atmosphere last night was terrific. That is what SEC football looks and feels like.
   
   
3. In order to truly compete in the SEC, UK has to position itself as the SEC option for elite recruits from the Midwest. There simply aren't enough elite players in the state of Kentucky to compete with teams like Florida, Georgia, LSU, etc. and UK doesn't have a football brand like Bama that would enable them to pull kids from all over the country. What you can offer is this. Lexington is the closest SEC destination for recruits from Ohio, Illinois, western PA, etc. and a certain number of them will want to play in the SEC rather than the Big Ten. But in order to land those kids, #1 and 2 have to be in place first. Sure enough, 5 of your top 6 rated recruits for 2017 are from Ohio. Just stay the course with that and you'll eventually start shrinking the talent gap.
   
   I do wonder why there aren't more UK players from Illinois and Missouri however. When we talked to the admissions counselors at UK, they said the 3 cities outside of Kentucky and Ohio that they target for recruiting are Chicago, St. Louis, and Atlanta and you certainly see a TON of students from all three of those areas on campus. However, among those three target areas, only the state of Georgia seems to be represented on the football roster. Not sure why that is. Having large chunks of students from those areas should make it easier to recruit football prospects as well.

In any event, the way Mark Stoops is building UK football reminds me a bit of how Mark Fox has been trying to build UGA basketball. UGA's history has been abysmal in basketball. So, an overnight transformation just wasn't going to happen. Instead, it's been slow and painful, but the Dawgs are in the upper third of the SEC pretty regularly these days and could finally be poised for a breakthrough season. Investments in facilities and establishing some degree of stability were key to making that possible.

Good post

 

[kyjohn]

To me, depth at QB is a huge problem. We should not have run off Towles; could have used him this year when DB went down. Johnson is a barely serviceable QB, for a lower level D1 or lower team. With a decent QB, we're a whole nother level to go with our running game.

UK seems to never have a quarterback capable of playing winning SEC football,and when they do ,they either don't have receivers who can catch a pass or running backs who can dominate.

 

[JC CATS]

Or wait until the rest of the league is down and then play your best ball and pull out the east.....oh wait.....that is the case this year. UK let a golden opportunity slip through their hands! I'd say not much has changed.....wish it had

You sir are a sad, pathetic man. If you won the lottery u would bi$%h because u had to pay taxes

 

[JDHoss]

To me, depth at QB is a huge problem. We should not have run off Towles; could have used him this year when DB went down. Johnson is a barely serviceable QB, for a lower level D1 or lower team. With a decent QB, we're a whole nother level to go with our running game.

We didn't "run off" Towles.

 

[Darkcide]

Great post, Coyote89. I don't post very often, but I read this board every day, and your comments are dead on. I was fortunate to have been in Sanford Stadium when the cats beat UGA 33 - 0 and the way your fans treated me then and every time I have been down there is reflective in your thoughts. You all are great.

 

[UK Cats Rock]

Thanks for the post!

 

[STUCKNBIG10]

great post, Op. Appreciate the thoughts.

 

[JABJRS]

Fumblin' bumblin' stumblin'.....

Yes......you are!

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

Been a UGA fan and season ticket holder for decades, but I have one daughter at South Carolina and another at Kentucky, so it's been interesting to see things from the other side. I know some will point to the lack of signature wins and say not much has changed for UK, but I see progress.

The SEC is a brutally tough league to transform a program. Unless you cheat to land the 4-5 star prospects like Hugh Freeze did at Ole' Miss, 80% of the teams in the league are going to have an advantage on UK in overall talent and depth. After all, Kentucky is not a state that produces a ton of elite football talent. So, you either have to wait for a once-in-a-lifetime player to come along, or you have to build it slow and steady, like Stoops is doing right now, so you can start to land more elite out-of-state recruits. Reasons I think the program is ultimately moving in the right direction:

1. UK should be back in a bowl game this year for the first time since 2010. Don't underestimate the importance of this. Recruits need to know that UK is a place where they can win games and be part of the bowl season. Even if the program isn't in the title hunt, its becoming credible, which is key. Also, before you can realistically expect to catch and pass the traditional "big 3" in the East, you have to first become the best of the other 4 teams in the division. UK beat South Carolina, Vandy, and Missouri this year and is beginning to establish itself as the best of those 4 programs. It's progress.
   
   
2. UK has been making HUGE investments in facilities lately and has the overall look and feel of a legit SEC program. The stadium, the football building, all the new dorms, etc. It all looks great and that atmosphere last night was terrific. That is what SEC football looks and feels like.
   
   
3. In order to truly compete in the SEC, UK has to position itself as the SEC option for elite recruits from the Midwest. There simply aren't enough elite players in the state of Kentucky to compete with teams like Florida, Georgia, LSU, etc. and UK doesn't have a football brand like Bama that would enable them to pull kids from all over the country. What you can offer is this. Lexington is the closest SEC destination for recruits from Ohio, Illinois, western PA, etc. and a certain number of them will want to play in the SEC rather than the Big Ten. But in order to land those kids, #1 and 2 have to be in place first. Sure enough, 5 of your top 6 rated recruits for 2017 are from Ohio. Just stay the course with that and you'll eventually start shrinking the talent gap.
   
   I do wonder why there aren't more UK players from Illinois and Missouri however. When we talked to the admissions counselors at UK, they said the 3 cities outside of Kentucky and Ohio that they target for recruiting are Chicago, St. Louis, and Atlanta and you certainly see a TON of students from all three of those areas on campus. However, among those three target areas, only the state of Georgia seems to be represented on the football roster. Not sure why that is. Having large chunks of students from those areas should make it easier to recruit football prospects as well.

In any event, the way Mark Stoops is building UK football reminds me a bit of how Mark Fox has been trying to build UGA basketball. UGA's history has been abysmal in basketball. So, an overnight transformation just wasn't going to happen. Instead, it's been slow and painful, but the Dawgs are in the upper third of the SEC pretty regularly these days and could finally be poised for a breakthrough season. Investments in facilities and establishing some degree of stability were key to making that possible.

Thank you for one of the best posts this board has observed in years. Georgia fans attending last night's game saw a UK football team on the rise and not just the usual automatic win. As always, the vast majority of Dawg fans were class all the way.

 

[jnewc2_rivals30628]

1. Comparing Stoops to Mark Fox doesn't exactly give me a lot of hope OP..dude plays in the worst basketball conference in America and leads a program in a state absolutely loaded with talent yet still can't put together a team that sniffs the top-25.

2. The "big 3" (and little two) that you say we need to pass haven't exactly been lighting the world on fire and we still can't get a win against them..the last time I checked Georgia has been average at best for several years now..same with Tennessee (and Florida to a lesser degree)

3. Talent is one thing, but Stoops has continually shown that in games where a "signature win" is on the line (Auburn, Florida, Louisville, Georgia, etc) he gets overwhelmed with emotion and overthinks his game prep and in-game coaching decisions..the moment has shown to be too big for him time after time after time, he once again starts meddling with his offensive coordinator by telling him not to run the wildcat because Georgia has too good of a run defense, yet when we finally go to the wildcat (which has been our bread and butter) halfway through the 4th quarter out of desperation we march it right down Georgia's throat begging the obvious question of why we didn't put Snell and even Boom in the wildcat before there were 9 minutes left in the game and we had to have a score

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

1. Comparing Stoops to Mark Fox doesn't exactly give me a lot of hope OP..dude plays in the worst basketball conference in America and leads a program in a state absolutely loaded with talent yet still can't put together a team that sniffs the top-25.

2. The "big 3" (and little two) that you say we need to pass haven't exactly been lighting the world on fire and we still can't get a win against them..the last time I checked Georgia has been average at best for several years now..same with Tennessee (and Florida to a lesser degree)

3. Talent is one thing, but Stoops has continually shown that in games where a "signature win" is on the line (Auburn, Florida, Louisville, Georgia, etc) he gets overwhelmed with emotion and overthinks his game prep and in-game coaching decisions..the moment has shown to be too big for him time after time after time, he once again starts meddling with his offensive coordinator by telling him not to run the wildcat because Georgia has too good of a run defense, yet when we finally go to the wildcat (which has been our bread and butter) halfway through the 4th quarter out of desperation we march it right down Georgia's throat begging the obvious question of why we didn't put Snell and even Boom in the wildcat before there were 9 minutes left in the game and we had to have a score

My friend, you need to march right over to the coaches offices and tell them your blueprint for UK being an SEC champion contender.

 

[Poetax]

Thanks OP, its great to get an outsider's view when our fanbase can be up in the air about Saturday night's loss. Its good to hear what others in the SEC think.

 

[jauk11]

The OP leaves me disgusted--------that some poster from out of state can spend one weekend in Kentucky and have a better grasp of the situation than a lot of regular posters on here.

 

[shutzhund]

Or wait until the rest of the league is down and then play your best ball and pull out the east.....oh wait.....that is the case this year. UK let a golden opportunity slip through their hands! I'd say not much has changed.....wish it had

Andre, is that you?

 

[frost1]

Thanks OP. great post. much appreciated.

 

[megablue]

Been a UGA fan and season ticket holder for decades, but I have one daughter at South Carolina and another at Kentucky, so it's been interesting to see things from the other side. I know some will point to the lack of signature wins and say not much has changed for UK, but I see progress.

The SEC is a brutally tough league to transform a program. Unless you cheat to land the 4-5 star prospects like Hugh Freeze did at Ole' Miss, 80% of the teams in the league are going to have an advantage on UK in overall talent and depth. After all, Kentucky is not a state that produces a ton of elite football talent. So, you either have to wait for a once-in-a-lifetime player to come along, or you have to build it slow and steady, like Stoops is doing right now, so you can start to land more elite out-of-state recruits. Reasons I think the program is ultimately moving in the right direction:

1. UK should be back in a bowl game this year for the first time since 2010. Don't underestimate the importance of this. Recruits need to know that UK is a place where they can win games and be part of the bowl season. Even if the program isn't in the title hunt, its becoming credible, which is key. Also, before you can realistically expect to catch and pass the traditional "big 3" in the East, you have to first become the best of the other 4 teams in the division. UK beat South Carolina, Vandy, and Missouri this year and is beginning to establish itself as the best of those 4 programs. It's progress.
   
   
2. UK has been making HUGE investments in facilities lately and has the overall look and feel of a legit SEC program. The stadium, the football building, all the new dorms, etc. It all looks great and that atmosphere last night was terrific. That is what SEC football looks and feels like.
   
   
3. In order to truly compete in the SEC, UK has to position itself as the SEC option for elite recruits from the Midwest. There simply aren't enough elite players in the state of Kentucky to compete with teams like Florida, Georgia, LSU, etc. and UK doesn't have a football brand like Bama that would enable them to pull kids from all over the country. What you can offer is this. Lexington is the closest SEC destination for recruits from Ohio, Illinois, western PA, etc. and a certain number of them will want to play in the SEC rather than the Big Ten. But in order to land those kids, #1 and 2 have to be in place first. Sure enough, 5 of your top 6 rated recruits for 2017 are from Ohio. Just stay the course with that and you'll eventually start shrinking the talent gap.
   
   I do wonder why there aren't more UK players from Illinois and Missouri however. When we talked to the admissions counselors at UK, they said the 3 cities outside of Kentucky and Ohio that they target for recruiting are Chicago, St. Louis, and Atlanta and you certainly see a TON of students from all three of those areas on campus. However, among those three target areas, only the state of Georgia seems to be represented on the football roster. Not sure why that is. Having large chunks of students from those areas should make it easier to recruit football prospects as well.

In any event, the way Mark Stoops is building UK football reminds me a bit of how Mark Fox has been trying to build UGA basketball. UGA's history has been abysmal in basketball. So, an overnight transformation just wasn't going to happen. Instead, it's been slow and painful, but the Dawgs are in the upper third of the SEC pretty regularly these days and could finally be poised for a breakthrough season. Investments in facilities and establishing some degree of stability were key to making that possible.

An excellent, thoughtful post, but I question that the concept of landing really good players that would rather plan in the SEC than the Big Ten. If they are that good and want to play in the SEC, they will head further South. Close to 35% of our scholarship players right now are from Ohio and many are not making contributions and proving to be SEC level players. Clearly Jordan Jones and Benny Snell, Jr. are, for sure, and maybe Conrad. I think recruiting north of the Mason-Dixon line should definitely be done, but not in the percentages we currently are. Most of the players we are recruiting are picking us over MAC Schools, along with Indiana, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Purdue, Illinois and sometimes West Virginia. To move up in the SEC, I believe we need more talent that is a notch higher.

 

[sluggercatfan]

To me, depth at QB is a huge problem. We should not have run off Towles; could have used him this year when DB went down. Johnson is a barely serviceable QB, for a lower level D1 or lower team. With a decent QB, we're a whole nother level to go with our running game.

Look...SJ DID NOT drop and fumble the ball like Badet, Johnson and Baker did. I think under the circumstances he has done a really good job, your "playmakers" must make SIMPLE plays. They do and Stephen Johnson is 6-1 as qb!

 

[Coyote89_rivals121762]

1. Comparing Stoops to Mark Fox doesn't exactly give me a lot of hope OP..dude plays in the worst basketball conference in America and leads a program in a state absolutely loaded with talent yet still can't put together a team that sniffs the top-25.

2. The "big 3" (and little two) that you say we need to pass haven't exactly been lighting the world on fire and we still can't get a win against them..the last time I checked Georgia has been average at best for several years now..same with Tennessee (and Florida to a lesser degree)

3. Talent is one thing, but Stoops has continually shown that in games where a "signature win" is on the line (Auburn, Florida, Louisville, Georgia, etc) he gets overwhelmed with emotion and overthinks his game prep and in-game coaching decisions..the moment has shown to be too big for him time after time after time, he once again starts meddling with his offensive coordinator by telling him not to run the wildcat because Georgia has too good of a run defense, yet when we finally go to the wildcat (which has been our bread and butter) halfway through the 4th quarter out of desperation we march it right down Georgia's throat begging the obvious question of why we didn't put Snell and even Boom in the wildcat before there were 9 minutes left in the game and we had to have a score

1. Fox has won 20+ games the last 3 years in a row and will likely do so again this year. That has NEVER happened before in UGA basketball history. So, as mediocre as it may sound, it's still progress for a program like ours. And he's doing it with a bunch of 3-star kids that weren't even recruited by the high-major programs. Regardless of how much talent there may be in the Atlanta area, you can't get those kids to attend UGA unless and until they see a winning program and coaching stability. The investments in the practice facility were important too. Gotta show that the school is committed to the sport. So, although its an imperfect analogy, it applies to UK football. Investments in facilities, stability in the coaching staff, and gradually gaining credibility as a program by simply making a bowl game are all important steps in the process of building a winner. And the quickest way to ruin that momentum would be for recruits to feel that Stoops could be on his way out. That's the last thing the program needs right now.

2. The "big 3" have indeed been down, but that may continue a bit longer. Florida is certainly not "back" just yet, UGA clearly still has some rebuilding to do, and Tennessee could regress next year rather than taking a step forward. So, it's not like the window of opportunity is about to close. UK should take a step forward by qualifying for a bowl this year and could take another step forward with an 8-4 type season next year.

3. The issue is still talent. UGA is certainly not elite these days. But they still have a few more play-makers than UK, and that's what tends to make the difference in a close game. All it takes is 1-2 plays to alter the outcome of a close game like that and the team with more future NFL prospects tends to find a way to make them. So, rather than bashing Stoops for not being able to overcome the talent gap, why not focus on what Saturday night could mean to closing the talent gap? Might be the best showcase UK has had in years for a large crop of talented recruits. Gotta convert all those positive impressions into actual commitments or signatures, but it's a start.

 

[fuzz77]

To me, depth at QB is a huge problem. We should not have run off Towles; could have used him this year when DB went down. Johnson is a barely serviceable QB, for a lower level D1 or lower team. With a decent QB, we're a whole nother level to go with our running game.

First, Pat wasn't "run off". He saw that Barker was going to play in front of him and he didn't want to sit for his senior year.
Second, Johnson has a higher completion % than does Pat this year and has about the same percentage as did Pat while Pat was at UK. I also don't remember fans being all that enthused about Pat's performances while at UK.
It seems that the normal course of events for UK QBs (at least lately) is that the fans complain about them while they are playing and then wanted back after they leave.

 

[appaws]

All the Dawgs fans I met Saturday night were super nice and classy. Thanks for the great post OP.

 

[skcatfan]

I gotta say all the Georgia fans on here seem pretty classy. Most of them at the game were too but there was one behind us that ran his mouth all night. In the 2nd half at one point he started yelling this is KENTUCKY we're losing to!! Then there was another in front of us acting like a raving lunatic off his meds when we were up also. He started screaming for everybody to get up and make some noise even though it was 90% UK fans around him lol.

 

[jauk11]

An excellent, thoughtful post, but I question that the concept of landing really good players that would rather plan in the SEC than the Big Ten. If they are that good and want to play in the SEC, they will head further South. Close to 35% of our scholarship players right now are from Ohio and many are not making contributions and proving to be SEC level players. Clearly Jordan Jones and Benny Snell, Jr. are, for sure, and maybe Conrad. I think recruiting north of the Mason-Dixon line should definitely be done, but not in the percentages we currently are. Most of the players we are recruiting are picking us over MAC Schools, along with Indiana, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Purdue, Illinois and sometimes West Virginia. To move up in the SEC, I believe we need more talent that is a notch higher.

Maybe Conrad?

That tells me all I needed to know, quit reading your post after that.

Di you happen to notice where a few of our OL, in contention for best OL in the nation, are from? A few four star DBs? Many more.

 

[UKUGA]

Always appreciate a positive take on UK, but I have no confidence that going to a bottom tier bowl game does anything to help recruiting.

People always seem to forget that Kentucky has actually played in a handful of low tier bowl games over the years, and it has never been the springboard that resulted in any type of sustainable success.

Now, perhaps if there is a new batch of interested recruits who don't know any history, the bowl appearance, combined with the facilities, could mean something.

As far as beating Vandy, SC, and Missouri, I agree. But that is where next year becomes the real test. (And don't forget to throw Miss State in there).

While we are on this supposed upward trajectory, how many of SC, Vandy, and Miss state, will we be able to beat on the road next season, when our schedule is brutal, and those wins will be needed to give us a shot at 6 wins and a trip to another low tier bowl game?

The point is, we have had several spurts of mediocrity through the years, and have gotten many pats on the head from oppposing fan bases.

We have to do it on the field for it to count, and so far, we haven't.

 

[eku69]

Been a UGA fan and season ticket holder for decades, but I have one daughter at South Carolina and another at Kentucky, so it's been interesting to see things from the other side. I know some will point to the lack of signature wins and say not much has changed for UK, but I see progress.

The SEC is a brutally tough league to transform a program. Unless you cheat to land the 4-5 star prospects like Hugh Freeze did at Ole' Miss, 80% of the teams in the league are going to have an advantage on UK in overall talent and depth. After all, Kentucky is not a state that produces a ton of elite football talent. So, you either have to wait for a once-in-a-lifetime player to come along, or you have to build it slow and steady, like Stoops is doing right now, so you can start to land more elite out-of-state recruits. Reasons I think the program is ultimately moving in the right direction:

1. UK should be back in a bowl game this year for the first time since 2010. Don't underestimate the importance of this. Recruits need to know that UK is a place where they can win games and be part of the bowl season. Even if the program isn't in the title hunt, its becoming credible, which is key. Also, before you can realistically expect to catch and pass the traditional "big 3" in the East, you have to first become the best of the other 4 teams in the division. UK beat South Carolina, Vandy, and Missouri this year and is beginning to establish itself as the best of those 4 programs. It's progress.
   
   
2. UK has been making HUGE investments in facilities lately and has the overall look and feel of a legit SEC program. The stadium, the football building, all the new dorms, etc. It all looks great and that atmosphere last night was terrific. That is what SEC football looks and feels like.
   
   
3. In order to truly compete in the SEC, UK has to position itself as the SEC option for elite recruits from the Midwest. There simply aren't enough elite players in the state of Kentucky to compete with teams like Florida, Georgia, LSU, etc. and UK doesn't have a football brand like Bama that would enable them to pull kids from all over the country. What you can offer is this. Lexington is the closest SEC destination for recruits from Ohio, Illinois, western PA, etc. and a certain number of them will want to play in the SEC rather than the Big Ten. But in order to land those kids, #1 and 2 have to be in place first. Sure enough, 5 of your top 6 rated recruits for 2017 are from Ohio. Just stay the course with that and you'll eventually start shrinking the talent gap.
   
   I do wonder why there aren't more UK players from Illinois and Missouri however. When we talked to the admissions counselors at UK, they said the 3 cities outside of Kentucky and Ohio that they target for recruiting are Chicago, St. Louis, and Atlanta and you certainly see a TON of students from all three of those areas on campus. However, among those three target areas, only the state of Georgia seems to be represented on the football roster. Not sure why that is. Having large chunks of students from those areas should make it easier to recruit football prospects as well.

In any event, the way Mark Stoops is building UK football reminds me a bit of how Mark Fox has been trying to build UGA basketball. UGA's history has been abysmal in basketball. So, an overnight transformation just wasn't going to happen. Instead, it's been slow and painful, but the Dawgs are in the upper third of the SEC pretty regularly these days and could finally be poised for a breakthrough season. Investments in facilities and establishing some degree of stability were key to making that possible.

Good post.