I was fighting my way through the security line in Baltimore on March19 returning from the Dominican Republic and struck up a conversation with the young woman behind me in line. She told me she was returning home to Chicago from Loyola-Baltimore. I told her I was an old NU guy and mentioned that we had a grad transfer from her University. She immediately said "Oh, you mean Pat Spencer - he's a great guy." She is a senior and knew Pat well. She also knows Pat's brother. who was a freshman on the Loyola-Baltimore basketball team this year, and had nice things to say about him as well. In retrospect, we were very fortunate to have Pat Spencer don the Purple and White this past season!
Pat Spencer
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There are 3 professional lacrosse leagues.
NLL-National Lacrosse League-this is the most senior league , commonly known as "box lacrosse". It is a great indoor game dominated by Canadians, who have played the game on hockey rinks in the summer for years.
MLL-Major Lacrosse League-the oldest outdoor league that most American lacrosse players have played in. The league has struggled over the past 20 years, with many franchises coming and going
PLL-Premiere Lacrosse League-a new league with "Wall Street Money" that started last year with salaries dwarfing those in the MLL. Paul Rabil(Dematha/JHU) was the force behind this league. The PLL has garnered a good TV package and may outlast the MLL
My son was the Rookie of the Year in the MLL years ago . I believe his salary was less than $1000/game. He lasted 3 years. Lacrosse is a contact game but the professional game took violence to a new level. His back has long scars from the "checks" delivered by defensemen's 6' longsticks
NCAA and Professional lacrosse are sports that everyone should take a look at. NU fans may be familiar with the women's game but the men's game is truly a man's game. Shots and passes routinely are launched at 100mph +. The eye to hand coordination of elite lacrosse players is probably second to none
Pat Spencer was the best lacrosse player of the past 5 years and one of the greats of all time. His ability to transition to D1 BB underscores his athletic ability
Thanks Doc, very informative. Spencer's ability to play big ten basketball does show his remarkable athleticism and competitive drive. One of my close friends was an all Ivy caliber lacrosse player, albeit not on Pat's level so I've always had respect for the sport. He was a much smaller version of Pat, but very athletic and competitive. That said, Pat must have been amazed that while he was among the biggest, strongest, fastest and most athletic players that college Lax has ever seen, in big ten basketball he was routinely going against guys who were arguably as or more athletic and often way bigger. In my estimate, basketball players are the most athletic on the planet given size, speed, agility etc...Imagine some of these guys taking up lacrosse instead of bball at a young age.
I think you are underestimating his athleticism since he looks like a guy that slips out to the YMCA while his wife watches the toddlers back home. One of his dunk attempts was started from close to the free throw line. I am sure he has surprised more than a few players in high level pick up games.
Spence is no doubt a great athlete. My observation is that he was one of the greatest athletes in the history of lacrosse. On a college basketball court he certainly showed immense strength, toughness and serious hops but he didn't necessarily stand out and there were plenty of guys who were bigger and quicker. He's an amazing athlete and competitor but I just note that basketball player athleticism is other-worldly. To wit, guys like McNabb, Peppers, Moss, TO were unbelievable athletes in football but not necessarily so on a bball court. I would've liked to see Spencer at WR, TE or Safety--I bet he could've been all-american.
BT guards are lightning fast! NBA,even better! Until we can play three deep,with that level of talent,we ain't beating Michigan!
I will never forget watching the show which pitted athletes from multiple sports in various competitions (swimming, 100 yard dash, etc.). Joe Frazier almost drowning swimming a length of a pool was amusing, but watching Elvin Hayes almost running down OJ Simpson in a 100 yard dash illustrates t-cat's point. A 6'9" basketball player in almost a dead heat with an in-his-prime NFL great (later killer, but that's another story) who also ran track at USC and was on a 4X100 relay team that was world class. . .
Well, it wasn’t OJ, but the Big E looked pretty good running down Jean-Claude Killey. Amazing footage here!! Couldn’t find him vs. OJ.
No argument about the superior athleticism of elite BB players but I doubt there are many that can catch a ball travelling at upwards of 100 mph in a 3' stick on the run and shoot it at similar velocities with either their right or left hand
When my son was a freshman in HS, JHU's Coach Pietramala loved # 14 ,Landon's left handed attackman, but my son was right handed. How many BB players can shoot as well left handed as they can right handed, layups excluded
Lacrosse and BB are different sports but Pat Spencer's ability to play B1G BB so well after 4 years of college lacrosse was still a great story
People are equating athleticism to running fast and jumping high. Pretty much a pre-req to being an elite BB player. To your point, how many elite BB players can hit a 100 mph fastball or a 93 mph cutter? You have probably golfed with former professional baseball and hockey players. How often did they suck at golf?
I know we got footage of the Big E running in the Superstars competition, but I can’t remember many BB players dominating the Superstars. I do know several football players and Track guys won. Even Kyle Rote, JR. Dominated Superstars. BB players often were out of there element in many of the events.
I’m differentiating a bit from physical athleticism (speed, size, power, agility, quickness) and “skills” that require thousands of hours or disciplined practice like hitting a curve ball or lax stick skills or hitting a turnaround jumper. There’s talent in all of it but I think the raw physical athleticism of elite b-ball players is off the charts. Imagine guys like Lebron, MJ, Giannis, Zion, Luka, Kobe, JKidd, Iverson put all of their focus on other sports like lax, b-ball, soccer. Some might struggle with a given skill but overall it would be insane. No doubt we’d have the best soccer team in the world if our best athletes focused on it instead of basketball and football.
Sorry Torque, I am not totally buying that those Basketball Superstars would be insane in a sport like baseball. I agree with the premise that they have physically gifted in speed, agility, quickness et al. However, I just don’t see most of these guys turning into Mike Trout or Max Scherzer by putting in the hours for baseball. No different than me seeing Trout become an elite b-ball player. That’s not say they aren’t out if this world basketball players, but some of the very attributes that made them elite basketball players don’t necessarily translate to elite in a sport requiring that insane hand eye coordination skills.
Different sports need different skill sets and physical abilities. I think Michael Jordan found that out when he quit basketball for baseball. Not arguing about the freakish athleticism of pro NBA ballers, but as Billy Bean and Moneyball aptly demonstrated, it takes more than that to succeed in other sports like baseball.
Basketball and football players are, for the most part, huge. No doubt that LeBron is one of the world’s best athletes, but being 6-8 is of limited advantage in soccer or baseball.
Basketball and football skills translate effectively to sports of pure athleticism (which is basically only track & field).
In most other sports (baseball, hockey, soccer, golf, tennis), being huge can be an advantage, but it is not a prerequisite.
The reason the U.S. is not as good at soccer at the rest of the world is because, 25 years after the 94 World Cup, there *still* isn’t an effective pipeline to identify and professionalize, like, 8 year olds. Some would argue that’s just fine, but it sure did suck in the summer of ‘18.
Basketball and football skills translate effectively to sports of pure athleticism (which is basically only track & field).
In most other sports (baseball, hockey, soccer, golf, tennis), being huge can be an advantage, but it is not a prerequisite.
The reason the U.S. is not as good at soccer at the rest of the world is because, 25 years after the 94 World Cup, there *still* isn’t an effective pipeline to identify and professionalize, like, 8 year olds. Some would argue that’s just fine, but it sure did suck in the summer of ‘18.
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Also, soccer is like the 5th (maybe 4th) sport that the best athletes gravitate to here in the US, where in most of the world it's #1.
Even in countries like SKorea and Japan where baseball has long been the dominant team sport, soccer seems to have caught up to baseball.
Ecat would have a better grasp of this, but in China, BB seems to still be a good bit ahead of soccer
When we were in the high-level youth soccer world for a few years, it was readily apparent that the US Soccer Development Academy did a relatively weak job scouting and building the skills required. We don't have enough trainers in the US who are capable of teaching the technical skills and enough parents (and coaches) who understand the importance of proper development. Korea and Japan have improved at soccer mainly because an American brought Coerver training to these countries, where it took hold quickly.
Another issue is that we keep discussing the purely physical aspects to soccer. On that basis, the US is one of the largest countries in the world with the most resources and should be able to field world-class national teams even if the best athletes are playing other sports. Anybody really believe the USMNT is lacking is size, strength and speed? But creativity, composure on the ball, decision-making, and feel for the game are other important attributes. Again, a lot of coaches in the US don't seem to prioritize these aspects--they mainly want guys who run really hard instead of running smart.
US was catching up in soccer a decade or two ago. Very visibly. The advent of soccer academies around the world, where young players live for the sport, has elevated the quality of Europe’s players. That was a major force behind the gap going from closing to widening.
I admit that I was very skeptical that Pat was going to be anything more than the back up when I heard of his signing. Boy, was I wrong. Toughest kid on the team. Gaines is the only other one close. Great tenacity and didn’t back down from anyone. I really enjoyed this kid.
I always thought he was trying to parlay this into a chance to play in Europe. He'd make more there than in any current lax league. I think he may have done enough to get a look.
I agree. He had a couple weaknesses in his game that were because he didn't play for four years. One example is his three point shooting. He has everything he needs to be a decent shooter from distance except for the reps. That can be addressed.
I sat behind an NBA scout at the Fort Meyers tournament, and he said Spencer was definitely a Summer League/G League guy. And that was very early in the preseason. He'll have pro hoops opportunities based on his play last year and moreso his potential.