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- Thread starter GatoLouco
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A little premature for this type of discussion. Every player that has transferred out under Collins with the exception of Chier Ajou has moved to a mid or low-major conference in order to get more playing time, i.e. not transferring because they're high-major quality and weren't getting the PT they thought they deserved.
I know it's early, but this has to be the frontrunner for Worst Post of the Year.
You always have really insightful comments and I look forward to your posts and analysis. Everyone has off days, it's all good.
If you all like the take the moral high ground that there are subjects real fans don't touch, that's fine with me. Your choice. Happy for you if that makes you feel more of a "real" purple fan. I understand "real" fans don't discuss the possibility of players leaving. Our program is too holly for the peasantry of programs that are more like sports franchises.
But here's reality:
1) More and more players enter the portal. With the COVID related eligibility rules, that number might even balloon more this year. And that's normal for programs filling the rosters with scholarship players. If, unlike our last few seasons, you have 10+ scholarship players, someone is going to be unhappy. That's expected and understandable, and one should just wish the young man wanting to leave good luck.
2) Players leave, in the overwhelming majority of cases, because of lack of minutes. Hence, they are usually bench players as starters are getting minutes. Other than maybe RAP, every player that has left NU recently has been for that reason.
3) They also leave, of course, to the programs that can give them minutes. Like stated by CappyNu, ours have left for mid majors. Not hard to figure out why, historically we have not had bench players with limited minutes that are power conference quality type of players.
4) We have a good group coming in of Simmons/Roper/Barnhizer. Bench will become even more competitive. We might actually have bench players that are attractive for power conference teams.
5) The concern players might leave might actually be a good thing, as it means we are better 1-12 than we have been in recent memory. And that's also a testament to the quality of players CC brings in. While I believe he is a poor practice/game coach, I believe he's outstanding as a recruiter given what he has to work with. And having players potentially leaving is not necessarily a jab at his abilities.
So you have:
Berry - It's not the minutes, for a freshman he gets some. But, unless the kid likes playing the 2 spot (possible), he is slowly getting less and less motivated. He's looking at another season and wondering if he has one more year being the third option playing the 1 spot, hence getting zero minutes at the point, potentially only having the chance of getting back to playing it after a 2+ year hiatus. With the consequences of development that entails. If the kid wants to play pro basketball, that's not good. At the same time, it's obvious he's got skills! Which makes him attractive for a lot more other programs.
Young - He's getting 15 minutes a game in B1G play, often driven by Beran getting in foul trouble. Maybe he's happy with that. Possible. Or maybe he realizes he's a pretty darn good player, a true 5, playing in a team without any other 5. And believes, like I do, he's more of a 20-25 minutes a game guy. I believe you'd be naive to think there are not plenty of power conference teams salivating at the idea of having Young. I can think immediately of my 2nd favorite team, Butler, where he'd fit in like a glove.
Yup. I am morally inferior to all of you because I consider topics like these worthy. Take the moral high ground. I don't give a ****.
But here's reality:
1) More and more players enter the portal. With the COVID related eligibility rules, that number might even balloon more this year. And that's normal for programs filling the rosters with scholarship players. If, unlike our last few seasons, you have 10+ scholarship players, someone is going to be unhappy. That's expected and understandable, and one should just wish the young man wanting to leave good luck.
2) Players leave, in the overwhelming majority of cases, because of lack of minutes. Hence, they are usually bench players as starters are getting minutes. Other than maybe RAP, every player that has left NU recently has been for that reason.
3) They also leave, of course, to the programs that can give them minutes. Like stated by CappyNu, ours have left for mid majors. Not hard to figure out why, historically we have not had bench players with limited minutes that are power conference quality type of players.
4) We have a good group coming in of Simmons/Roper/Barnhizer. Bench will become even more competitive. We might actually have bench players that are attractive for power conference teams.
5) The concern players might leave might actually be a good thing, as it means we are better 1-12 than we have been in recent memory. And that's also a testament to the quality of players CC brings in. While I believe he is a poor practice/game coach, I believe he's outstanding as a recruiter given what he has to work with. And having players potentially leaving is not necessarily a jab at his abilities.
So you have:
Berry - It's not the minutes, for a freshman he gets some. But, unless the kid likes playing the 2 spot (possible), he is slowly getting less and less motivated. He's looking at another season and wondering if he has one more year being the third option playing the 1 spot, hence getting zero minutes at the point, potentially only having the chance of getting back to playing it after a 2+ year hiatus. With the consequences of development that entails. If the kid wants to play pro basketball, that's not good. At the same time, it's obvious he's got skills! Which makes him attractive for a lot more other programs.
Young - He's getting 15 minutes a game in B1G play, often driven by Beran getting in foul trouble. Maybe he's happy with that. Possible. Or maybe he realizes he's a pretty darn good player, a true 5, playing in a team without any other 5. And believes, like I do, he's more of a 20-25 minutes a game guy. I believe you'd be naive to think there are not plenty of power conference teams salivating at the idea of having Young. I can think immediately of my 2nd favorite team, Butler, where he'd fit in like a glove.
Yup. I am morally inferior to all of you because I consider topics like these worthy. Take the moral high ground. I don't give a ****.
They have 9 guys playing legitimate minutes, with no seniors on the team. If they lost one player who wasn’t a major contributor last year, I don’t expect much this year. They went 8-22 and guys stayed and bought in. 2021-2022 looks different, especially since teams like Iowa, Wisconsin and ILL will probably have to reload a bit after this year. I don’t expect anybody major to leave.
Not a moral high ground issue, I just think it's too early. If the losses start piling up I think Collins will experiment with the lineups (like how benched Nance last year). To me, that's when we might see see a lot more of Berry at the 1. Young is a really interesting case. I really think he needs more minutes and I'm just not seeing what (a hurt-ish) Berran gives us offensively that Ryan doesn't. We have problems scoring points and Young seems like he adds another dimension. I could see him getting frustrated about his role, but I think it will increase as the season goes on.
I don't know Ryan Young at all, but from watching him on tv, he just seems like the last guy that would whine about playing time.
Agreed. He doesn't seem like that type of player (always hustles, has good body language etc.) but he is the one player whose minutes really seem out of balance with his production (and he started last year).
This is pure, 100% you making assumptions. As far as I can tell, Collins has never been anything other than completely forthright with his players regarding playing time. What evidence do you have to say that "Berry is slowly getting less and less motivated"? Young's minutes are not at all driven by Beran getting in foul trouble, when they've played the two-big lineup it's been between 3-6 minutes per game. We have simply played better with Nance at the 5 than Young, though he has played well in his role.
Could not agree more. And it's very worth noting, like you did, that he was a starter.
But BB looked like the happiest bench player in the world. And transferred while not being 1/2 as good as RY. Gave up a (free) master's degree at NU too in the process.
Dude, what is that we discuss here that is not assumptions?
What is there to discuss if there's no assumptions? 95% of the conversation here would not exist.
Take a look at anyone's posts, including yours. It's not because of your snazzy numbers (which are appreciated by this poster) that you make no assumptions. Get off your moral high ground and, if you think you are smarter than me or anyone else (possible, not hard in my case), keep it to yourself.
Alternatively, stay off this thread, that works too.
Lol, ok dude. It has nothing to do with me thinking I'm smarter than you, but for you to start up a post about who's going to transfer while we're in the middle of the season coming off of an unprecedented string of games against elite competition, it comes off poorly.
It’s not moral issue at all. It’s a why are we talking about this when the season isn’t close to over. I swear this board overreacts to everything. Also a lot of you not to be mean but there’s most likely an age gap seem very out of touch with what college age people think. Ya there will be more transfers now with rule but I don’t see it happening with this team. They’re close to pushing through and they know it.
Triggered? What has gotten into you? Obviously, you don’t care for CCC’s coaching abilities and I can’t blame you on some of that thought. However, the timing of your post sucks. It also is extremely speculative and the original post didn’t do anything but throw out names with no argument to support those names. It’s a stir up some **** post.
I also think transfers are more the norm than ever before. Like most programs, NU will likely have some. Big deal, that is what staffs are dealing with now. If you think that’s a good thing, great, I’ll remember that when the backlash starts post announcement.
Some players, their families read these forums. It just is disrespect to them and the program to start transfer threads without any real knowledge of whether they are happy or not. More importantly, it is Way to early for this crap. Come back after the season and actually make a case.
Wasn't his lawsuit about being told he was s**t and would never play? Pretty darn honest if so.....
I suppose that's one way to look at it. I can't imagine that's what he was told when he was recruited. Since he was taking a scholarship slot, Collins should have found a way to use him instead of trying to run him off.
Obviously he was told all the right stuff when he was recruited. If Collins did actually say that, I think he was wrong. But if he did say it, then he was also being honest. An *******, but an honest *******.
You had me till the last paragraph. These are professional athletes - i don’t care what amateur status is. Over a college NU career, they earn more than the average salaried person does over ten years. If they or their influencers are snowflakes, go find a school with a competitive program and a mild message board. Or Twitter verse. Or Reddit sub. Either bring your game up or better stay at NU cuz you won’t play pro and the NU parchment is your best earning opportunity in real life.
The damn participation trophy culture has brought this to pass. And I say no. You want pats on the back, earn them. You want a free lunch, sit on the bench, take your schollie and then get a job. You want to play pro? Grow some skin, bring some game and tell your folks to stay off the internet forever - cuz it will only get harsher at the next level.
Any NU player or prospect or family reading - you will get over a half million in benefits, a world class education, a world class city environment, amazing facilities, full Big universe with Greek system, host of legit extra curriculum and great networking connections. But if you are too soft to hear or read criticism, I don’t care. Find a softer home - maybe moraine community college has an open spot. I doubt they have a fan message board.
I guess as triggered as you posting twice in a thread described by you as “WTF”.
I have zero pleasure on stirring ****. It’s not the first time you find my stuff extremely speculative. Suit yourself if what you don’t agree with is extremely speculative. Makes sense. I bet if you agree the speculation index goes down.
Finally, weak regarding families. Really, really weak. Never have I posted anything that was offensive to a player, derogatory, personal, discriminatory, etc. If anyone reading these boards is too sensitive about opinions, can’t imagine if they played at IU. Ultimately it is just you finding reasons to justify not liking my post. Go call out the next poster that says Buie is not our guy. That sounds a lot more sensitive to any family member reading such an opinion. I’ll wait.
Well, I have generally enjoyed your posts even when I disagree. I also agree with plenty of your takes.
My WTF was directed at your first post. You started a post called “Portal” and then threw 2 names out there with zero content. The content only came after several people jumped you. I don’t think your timing is good either. In the middle of the season isn’t the time to guess what is in players heads. Fact is, you have no idea and neither do I. Throwing two names out there suggests 1) the player is unhappy and feels they have better options and 2) may not be fully invested in the team. Why can’t this wait until the season plays out?
There will likely be transfers. In this day and age, pretty much every school has them. I think you said transfers might be good as it potentially improves your talent. Well, I Will remember that when and if it happens. There are only 10 guys on the team. Everyone will be patting themselves on the back saying I told you so when it happens even if the names are different. However, if Boo and/or Berry left I would see you leading the mob with flames and pitchforks to remove CCC.
I realize you are not a CCC fan. Great, neither are a lot of other people, but this clearly was aimed as a CCC is screwing up these guys why would they stay post. Just gives you a vehicle to add recruiting the wrong players to your in game coaching criticism that leaks into most threads.
I probably could have conveyed my point better. However, you have to realize that professional athlete has a different meaning in college based on 1) what sport you participate in and 2) what school you go to.
C’mon Bob, the athletic scholarship was a great deal for both you and I, but is it for the kid that plays in the SEC, never graduates, leaves with little skills and makes a boat load of money for the university? We’re you being booed in the pool and criticized in social media because you had a bad meet?
Thanks, for the snowflake reference. I got to tell my kids that one because we know each other, you know I am far from a snowflake. They will get a chuckle out of that.
1) Thank you
2) I challenge you to find where I ever supported the idea of firing him before, potentially, the end of next season.
3) Nope, never criticized his recruiting. Another challenge for you to find. Probably never will. He's brought in excellent raw material for what I perceive is possible, currently, at NU.
The names I mentioned, Young and Berry are terrific recruits, and would hate to see them leave.
Through the incredible frustration I feel seeing CC make what I perceive are bad decisions (just my opinion, not fact), I very much root for his success. If that means I'm wrong, that's fine with me.
You seem to believe my timing is driven by some master plan of adding to my against CC arsenal. There's no more to read than concern the way the team is run might easily drive away guys we are lucky to have playing for us. And I don't get there being a right or wrong time for that.
I think the knocks on CCC are out in game coaching and poor player development. If boo or berry leave, I think that would be consistent with poor player development and folks should call for a change.
A very small percentage of power 5 revenue sport athletes make itprofessionally. Even less into American pro leagues. But the value of the NU scholarship is huge as is the connections. I don’t Matt rice would be as successful if he has UoI parchment with his cup of coffee in the league. Whether the athletes appreciate it doesn’t matter to me. Heck, most nba and nfl guys blow their money and are left destitute. College revenue power five sports are mini professional leagues.
I will take you word for it. I don’t have an inclination right now to search past posts. I absolutely understand the frustration, it’s tough to watch. I just think there’s a multitude of reasons NU struggles and replacing the Coach in my opinion doesn’t solve those issues.