After reading that post about Rupp being offered the Duke job I wonder what was vibe around Kentucky at the end of Rupp's career here? What were the newspapers saying? What were the fans saying? What was the sense about the program moving forward?
Question for the old farts
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My memories also. Was only 12-13 at time but Rupp seemed to be an "old" 70. We didn't use terms of senility or Alzheimer's then but there seemed to be a undercurrent of something like that. Most people felt game had passed him and were excited about Joe B. Rupp's last few years had a feel like Tubby's last few.
My memories also. Was only 12-13 at time but Rupp seemed to be an "old" 70. We didn't use terms of senility or Alzheimer's then but there seemed to be a undercurrent of something like that. Most people felt game had passed him and were excited about Joe B. Rupp's last few years had a feel like Tubby's last few.
In the future you might want to consider using a little kinder description for those who have been around awhile. Just sayin.
There were some people very unhappy that he was forced out, and he was most definitely bitter about it. Those 2 things I remember well.
On a related note I think Joe B doesn't get the credit he deserves for doing what few others have ever done, successfully following up a legend, and keeping the program viable. He came within a hair of winning two titles in his first 6 seasons. UK basketball could have faded from the scene at that point, but he didn't let it happen. I also think he was smart enough to see the game was changing, and hung 'em up.The Georgetown game in the '84 Final 4 being a great example of that. Thompson unleashed his athletes with their quickness and length, and we could hardly even get the ball to half court in the 2nd half. The next year the tournament expanded to 64 teams. The year after the shot clock was introduced, and the year after that some started using the 3 point line. Greats like Knight and Crum never really did fully adjust. Granted, it didn't work out so well for UK either until Rick came to town with his pressing D and 3 point shooting O.
There were some people very unhappy that he was forced out, and he was most definitely bitter about it. Those 2 things I remember well.
On a related note I think Joe B doesn't get the credit he deserves for doing what few others have ever done, successfully following up a legend, and keeping the program viable. He came within a hair of winning two titles in his first 6 seasons. UK basketball could have faded from the scene at that point, but he didn't let it happen. I also think he was smart enough to see the game was changing, and hung 'em up.The Georgetown game in the '84 Final 4 being a great example of that. Thompson unleashed his athletes with their quickness and length, and we could hardly even get the ball to half court in the 2nd half. The next year the tournament expanded to 64 teams. The year after the shot clock was introduced, and the year after that some started using the 3 point line. Greats like Knight and Crum never really did fully adjust. Granted, it didn't work out so well for UK either until Rick came to town with his pressing D and 3 point shooting O.
Rupp was starting to get ill too. He had diabetes and was feeling the effects. I remember him propping his leg up on a chair too. I think it was either Billy Reed or maybe Dave Kindred in the C-J that wrote a scathing article against UK for "forcing" him out even though it was a state law. Joe B Hall got a lot of blame for supposedly working behind the scenes to make sure he retired and that is why many did not support Joe B at first.
I definitely remember the undercurrent of poor health and capacity. The media coverage was much different then. The only time you really got a sense for Rupp was during the weekly show where his engagement was significantly reduced to answering a few questions followed by a player interview and special piece on the freshman team or highlights of the previous game.
The best I can remember there was just no controversy. There was no "should he, or shouldn't he". Everyone knew the end had arrived. And there certainly was no question as to who the next coach was going to be. As to the sense about the program, after the 13-13 season, I think people believed the Cats would sooner or later get back to success, but no one was sure when that would be. I would love to hear comments about the "hope" of the program rising again. I don't specifically remember this.
To say Rupp was a legend is, of course, an understatement. He was engrained into the fabric of Kentucky. To see he and the program settle into mediocrity was indeed sad. I was young, but I'm guessing some older folks at the time experienced the reality of mortality when the Rupp Era ended. He was always there; the team was always good; and it was something in many poor communities that could be depended on. The Cats success defined many people's self worth (and still does).
I do remember vividly the grumbling in the years after Rupp about Hall's style of play, his success, the color of his eyes (not really although it wouldn't surprise me), his recruiting; just anything that certain people could complain about. Message Boards would have been bad. Even after the championship, Joe B. was criticized. I always liked Joe B. and would try and defend him the best I could.
To say Rupp was a legend is, of course, an understatement. He was engrained into the fabric of Kentucky. To see he and the program settle into mediocrity was indeed sad. I was young, but I'm guessing some older folks at the time experienced the reality of mortality when the Rupp Era ended. He was always there; the team was always good; and it was something in many poor communities that could be depended on. The Cats success defined many people's self worth (and still does).
I do remember vividly the grumbling in the years after Rupp about Hall's style of play, his success, the color of his eyes (not really although it wouldn't surprise me), his recruiting; just anything that certain people could complain about. Message Boards would have been bad. Even after the championship, Joe B. was criticized. I always liked Joe B. and would try and defend him the best I could.
This old fart have never heard that he was offered the Duke job?
This post was edited on 2/23 1:37 PM by westerncat
I had/have the greatest respect for Coach Rupp. One the biggest thrills for me was to try out for the freshman team with him watching from the stands, while Joe B ran the drills. That being said, Coach Rupp was starting to lose it a little by the time he retired. I remember him confusing Mark Soderberg and Kent Hollenbeck, by saying "that Soderbeck boy". By the time he retired, I don't think we were getting the best players, either. He was looked at as no longer on the cutting edge.
Coach Rupp was adored by the student body and the people of rural Kentucky. However, Coach Hall did a lot better than most on here seem to remember. It was Coach Hall that recruited the "super kittens" - that is one of the reason's Coach Rupp didn't want to leave. Coach Hall's first teams were loaded and had a great chance to win it all, but for the bad break of having to play John Wooden in his last game, he would have the title in 1975. Officiating was the difference. Coach Wooden walked out to mid court screaming at the officials as UK was winning with less than 10 minutes to go. He should have had technical fouls called at a minimum. No one said anything, because it was Wooden's last game and in California for the National Championship. Kentucky's players and coaches seemed rattled after that and the officials were certainly intimidated.
When the kittens were freshmen the Coliseum would fill to capacity for their games, which were played before the varsity game. One fourth of the people would go home in the second half of the varsity game. The kittens went 25-0 if I remember correctly and blew out everyone, while the varsity struggled that year. I was a student and we will never know for sure, but supposedly the kittens beat the varsity regularly and Rupp wouldn't allow them to keep score of those scrimmages.
Coach Rupp was starting to suffer from his diabetes and its many sub issues like early dementia in my opinion. But he could still keep an audience in awe with his stories. Coach Rupp was "retired" because of Kentucky's retirement age law. Some people tried to get the law changed, but the legislature never took it up. Coach Hall was Rupp's top assistant and briefly accepted the St. Louis head coaching job. Coach Rupp met with Coach Hall and the athletic department agreed that Coach Hall would take the job when Rupp retired. Coach Rupp just wasn't ready to go and it was a shame, because some of his image was tarnished, but most of the people quickly forgave Coach Rupp and understood his situation. A lot of people aren't ready to retire when the time comes.
Duke approached Coach Rupp and it was rumored he verbally had accepted the job. Supposedly Ester,(Coach Rupp's Wife) told Adolph she was moving from Lexington and he should do more farming. The rest is history.
Coach Rupp was one of if not the greatest teller of stories ever. His radio shows were classics with his stories. If you can imagine Caywood Ledford and him discussing basketball and life. R.I.P. Coach Rupp and Caywood - you are and will always be Kentucky Basketball for those born before 1950.
Go Big Blue!
When the kittens were freshmen the Coliseum would fill to capacity for their games, which were played before the varsity game. One fourth of the people would go home in the second half of the varsity game. The kittens went 25-0 if I remember correctly and blew out everyone, while the varsity struggled that year. I was a student and we will never know for sure, but supposedly the kittens beat the varsity regularly and Rupp wouldn't allow them to keep score of those scrimmages.
Coach Rupp was starting to suffer from his diabetes and its many sub issues like early dementia in my opinion. But he could still keep an audience in awe with his stories. Coach Rupp was "retired" because of Kentucky's retirement age law. Some people tried to get the law changed, but the legislature never took it up. Coach Hall was Rupp's top assistant and briefly accepted the St. Louis head coaching job. Coach Rupp met with Coach Hall and the athletic department agreed that Coach Hall would take the job when Rupp retired. Coach Rupp just wasn't ready to go and it was a shame, because some of his image was tarnished, but most of the people quickly forgave Coach Rupp and understood his situation. A lot of people aren't ready to retire when the time comes.
Duke approached Coach Rupp and it was rumored he verbally had accepted the job. Supposedly Ester,(Coach Rupp's Wife) told Adolph she was moving from Lexington and he should do more farming. The rest is history.
Coach Rupp was one of if not the greatest teller of stories ever. His radio shows were classics with his stories. If you can imagine Caywood Ledford and him discussing basketball and life. R.I.P. Coach Rupp and Caywood - you are and will always be Kentucky Basketball for those born before 1950.
Go Big Blue!
I was in high school at the time and we were season ticket holders. It was pretty controversial as I recall. Rupp had some powerful supporters in town and on the UK Board of Trustees who did not want him to retire. He refused to even talk about it until he was forced to. His health was declining and his recruiting fell off. His last team was downright terrible, and were actually booed at the Coliseum. (Though he did recruit Kevin Grevey, Mike Flynn, Jimmy Dan Conner, and Bob Guyette as his last group and they went on to be national runner-ups in 1975.) At that point most fans were ready for him to go. It was especially concerning that Indiana, UNC, and Louisville had younger coaches who were getting the nationally known recruits away from UK. But there was a fair amount of skepticism about Joe B. Hall as his successor.
as his last Student Manager..I drove him home every day..The Diabetes and Phlebitis were wearing on him..His eyesight was getting worse ..His gait was slower..His mind was sharp ,but he did have trouble with names..He called me Louisville (I was from Louisville thus the nickname)..
Bitter..you damn right he was bitter..He blamed President Otis Singetary for the undercurrent of forcing him out..He often said .."I'll be coaching somewhere..you can write that down" He took a figurehead job as President of the Memphis Tams (ABA) no duties just a PR.gig. I felt a great deal of compassion for him..He was good to me..God Bless his memory...
I think Esther (Mrs. Rupp) wanted him to retire and enjoy what time he had left..Cancer was present but not as bad til a few years later..He said often" if UK retires me,might as well take me out to Lexington Cemetery"..He lived 5 years after retirement..
I remember his speech at the Basketball Banquet.." For those of you that went down the Glory Road with me...My eternal thanks..Good Night" Bitter wasn't the word..
Bitter..you damn right he was bitter..He blamed President Otis Singetary for the undercurrent of forcing him out..He often said .."I'll be coaching somewhere..you can write that down" He took a figurehead job as President of the Memphis Tams (ABA) no duties just a PR.gig. I felt a great deal of compassion for him..He was good to me..God Bless his memory...
I think Esther (Mrs. Rupp) wanted him to retire and enjoy what time he had left..Cancer was present but not as bad til a few years later..He said often" if UK retires me,might as well take me out to Lexington Cemetery"..He lived 5 years after retirement..
I remember his speech at the Basketball Banquet.." For those of you that went down the Glory Road with me...My eternal thanks..Good Night" Bitter wasn't the word..
I cut my teeth as a UK fan with Coach Hall and the 1974-1975 team. I only partially remember Jim Andrews, Larry Steele, Tom Parker, Jim Dinwiddie, etc and Coach Rupp's last years. I vaguely remembering the 'official' reason being university policy of 70 years being mandated retirement age.
As I 'recall', wasn't Coach Hall's first season was also the first playing season for Connor, Flynn, Grevey, etc?
I remember the 1975 game vs UCLA the same way. With Coach Wooden announcing his retirement the day before, the fix was in. My dad called him an SOB from our living room.
As I 'recall', wasn't Coach Hall's first season was also the first playing season for Connor, Flynn, Grevey, etc?
I remember the 1975 game vs UCLA the same way. With Coach Wooden announcing his retirement the day before, the fix was in. My dad called him an SOB from our living room.
yes he was.. His Farm Manager suffered a heart Attack and he had to run his huge Polled Hereford farm in Bourbon County..or he might have been the Duke Coach..
We say Coach Rupp was slowing down and he was but Rupp as an old man won the SEC Championship the last five years of his career. Five straight.
At that time, It was a well known fact that Coach Rupp had to leave at age 70 as the state had the rule for state employees. The head coach at UK was a state employee. But like a lot of older people he wanted to leave when he wanted to leave and he thought he had a few more years left as a coach. But no waiver was given and Coach Rupp understood but he still wanted to go to work somewhere as he expressed that to Cawood in an interview.
His 69-70 team lost 2 games. One win away from a Final Four. His 70-71 team lost 6 games, lost in the Sweet 16 and his last team, 71-72 lost 7 games. The last being in the Regional Finals, Elite Eight. One win away from a Final Four. Joe B's first team lost 8 games and his second team lost 13 games. The next year Joe B went to the Final Four.
Rupp was definitely slowing down as the game was changing. He liked a fast game and with Coaches like Babe McCarthy and Dean Smith the games would soon become stall ball. He hated stall ball.
As you review history, Coach Rupp's leaving worked out for the best. The program was still a solid program and was built on a solid foundation. Coach Hall kept us at the top of the SEC, won a title and recruited some of the all time greats to UK. The biggest testimony to the greatness of Adolph Rupp is the current state of our program. He did not build a program on sand. He built it on solid rock.
If you have never heard Rupp's Farewell Speech and you are a UK fan I would recommend you getting a copy and listening. It may have been the greatest Farewell Speech since Lou Gehrig.
This post was edited on 2/23 2:10 PM by Sawnee Cat
At that time, It was a well known fact that Coach Rupp had to leave at age 70 as the state had the rule for state employees. The head coach at UK was a state employee. But like a lot of older people he wanted to leave when he wanted to leave and he thought he had a few more years left as a coach. But no waiver was given and Coach Rupp understood but he still wanted to go to work somewhere as he expressed that to Cawood in an interview.
His 69-70 team lost 2 games. One win away from a Final Four. His 70-71 team lost 6 games, lost in the Sweet 16 and his last team, 71-72 lost 7 games. The last being in the Regional Finals, Elite Eight. One win away from a Final Four. Joe B's first team lost 8 games and his second team lost 13 games. The next year Joe B went to the Final Four.
Rupp was definitely slowing down as the game was changing. He liked a fast game and with Coaches like Babe McCarthy and Dean Smith the games would soon become stall ball. He hated stall ball.
As you review history, Coach Rupp's leaving worked out for the best. The program was still a solid program and was built on a solid foundation. Coach Hall kept us at the top of the SEC, won a title and recruited some of the all time greats to UK. The biggest testimony to the greatness of Adolph Rupp is the current state of our program. He did not build a program on sand. He built it on solid rock.
If you have never heard Rupp's Farewell Speech and you are a UK fan I would recommend you getting a copy and listening. It may have been the greatest Farewell Speech since Lou Gehrig.
This post was edited on 2/23 2:10 PM by Sawnee Cat
I was about 12-13 when he retired. There was much discussion in the news about 70 being the mandatory retirement age and that it would not be waived. I hated seeing him go, but was more concerned about the team than the coach. The first Hall team I remember was led by Jim Andrews. They got beat in the tournament by iu.
I also remember the night he died. Dec 7, 1977 I think. If I'm not mistaken, the Cats were playing Kansas.
I also remember the night he died. Dec 7, 1977 I think. If I'm not mistaken, the Cats were playing Kansas.
It was Adolph Rupp Night at Kansas He played at Kansas In the Hall of Fame They had a moment of Silence to pray for Rupp ..We won the game..Rupp died at the UK Med Center that night..
..We won the game..Rupp died at the UK Med Center that night..
I don't remember that either. AR did not want to be retired. He went out kicking and screaming I think it was time. He was not healthy.
I never heard anyone mention that Joe B. was doing anything other than supporting Rupp during that period. Not even fair to say it here, even if you heard it. It just implants a very wrong thought the minds of the idiots that frequent this board. But bigbluegrog is very correct about Rupp being at the end of his excellent carreer when he was forced out. I recall passing him on campus in about 69 and said "hi coach" in passing and he literally growled like I had insulted him. Rupp always had a grumpy personality, but toward the end he was more than just grumpy. He was getting old. We all knew what was happening, but it was time and most everybody I knew accepted it. Joe B. did an excellent job taking over from a true legend. We have heard that phrase used many times, but I can't recall anybody ever taking over a dynasty like joe B. did. I actually think Cal is a better, but you just can't beat out Adolph's 41 year run. My God. I wasn't even born when Rupp came to Kentucky. He had been the coach for 35 years when I arrived on campus.
I didn't realize older UK fans didn't know about this. It was common knowledge. Maybe memories are fading in our elder years.
About 20 or 25 years ago, Billy Packer told the story of Duke offering the job during a game I was watching on TV. He knew behind the scene things in the ACC but this was out in the open.
Rupp certainly was winding down in life but he was well respect when he was retired. Every team in the SEC had a special recognition prepared for him when he made his final visit and he even got a standing ovation at Mississippi State, the team he probably disliked more than any other. Mississippi State had given Kentucky pure hell for about 20 years.
Of course he had his distractors, but peers still enjoyed watching his teams and he still had a lot to offer. Joe B handled the change with class and the program was solid. I am glad Coach Rupp lived to see an arena named after him. He should have a statute erected in his honor on campus. But that will never happen.
This post was edited on 2/23 3:06 PM by Sawnee Cat
About 20 or 25 years ago, Billy Packer told the story of Duke offering the job during a game I was watching on TV. He knew behind the scene things in the ACC but this was out in the open.
Rupp certainly was winding down in life but he was well respect when he was retired. Every team in the SEC had a special recognition prepared for him when he made his final visit and he even got a standing ovation at Mississippi State, the team he probably disliked more than any other. Mississippi State had given Kentucky pure hell for about 20 years.
Of course he had his distractors, but peers still enjoyed watching his teams and he still had a lot to offer. Joe B handled the change with class and the program was solid. I am glad Coach Rupp lived to see an arena named after him. He should have a statute erected in his honor on campus. But that will never happen.
This post was edited on 2/23 3:06 PM by Sawnee Cat
BoulderCat I would also say Joe B Hall did not get the credit he deserves for fully integrating Kentucky basketball. On a human level I think that was his greatest act.
I also think your first sentence is very true.
This post was edited on 2/23 4:12 PM by Levibooty
I'm not saying the part about Joe B was 100% factual, but I do remember stories that a lot of Adolph's biggest supporters felt like that was going on and I have a pretty reliable source. Each side had its big supporters and I recall at the time, hearing about some divisiveness between the two. I think Joe B supported Rupp, but because Rupp was not yet ready to go, not sure Rupp supported Joe B at first.
I'm 61 but am not an old fart til I fart dust. UK had a mandatory retirement age and they enforced it. If he was not ready to go then human nature would be that it was not pretty.
From the video footage I've seen of Rupp's last post-season banquet he said, "I'll never retire. That's something I'll never do. I might step aside." He wanted to retain control, but really his health was failing him at the time. From what I understand, he even took up his own coach's tv show that rivaled Joe B. and made comments on the team. Seems that there was a general consensus that he needed to retire, and a relief that the retirement age provision could be used to effect his retirement with the least discord.
If you haven't seen it, I ran across this good video on Rupp and some of his best teams...it has a bit of footage at the end from that last banquet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkoCHaloudk[/URL]
This post was edited on 2/23 6:15 PM by UK3Pointer
If you haven't seen it, I ran across this good video on Rupp and some of his best teams...it has a bit of footage at the end from that last banquet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkoCHaloudk[/URL]
This post was edited on 2/23 6:15 PM by UK3Pointer
Coach Rupp was having trouble remembering names for a few years before he retired. I was listening to his postgame show after a game in the mid 60's when a seldom used backup center by the name of Clint Wheeler had played and had a pretty good game. Coach Rupp wanted to recognize Wheeler for his performance, but he couldn't remember his name. After what seemed like a really long pause Coach Rupp finally said; "Oh hell that big boy from Ashland."
I thought he was the greatest coach ever at that time and I still do.
I was a medical student during the last years of Rupp's coaching career. He was in and out of UKMC on a regular basis. On one admission I was assigned to do his H&P. I was intimidated, but he was a real gentleman and could not have been nicer. At the end of the H&P, I was suppose to do a rectal exam., but didn't have the nerve to bring to bring it up. As I was leaving the room he said " I quest you need to put a finger up my ***, so lets get over with" What a guy!
We had a fraternity brother on the teem. While Rupp was still revered,mi recall him saying Joe B was already doing most the coaching. I wondered if Rupp was already experiencing bouts wit dementia or at least memory loss. It was fun being there when The Man in the Brown Suit coached, students standing and yelling "Hello Adolph" when he came on the court. Two highlights: when Ray Mears and Rupp went head to head, and when Pete Maravich & LSU came to Memorial.
I qualify as an elderly flatuance and I don't recall anything much being said about Rupp going to Duke. There may have been something to it but I tend to put it in the category of Rupp got a caddliac and Bryant got a watch. Bryant himself admitted that that did not happen and some still believe it.
This has been a very enjoyable and informative thread. You old farts have held your own and I'll be staying off your lawns 
. This was my favorite post:
. This was my favorite post:
I am 68 and I talked to Coach Rupp about it. It happened.
Folks, Coach Rupp was not forced out. State employees had to retire at 70. Coach Rupp did not want to hang up his spurs but State law required it. I can't believe that folks in this thread are saying he was forced out. Damn folks it was the law.
The only controversy was that UK had promised Joe B. Hall the head coaching job and Coach Rupp lashed out at Joe and tried to put Catlett in. That did not work as the UK admin had earlier gone to St. Louis and begged Joe B. to come back.
The thing is Rupp didn't want to go but UK had this mandatory retirement age rule. Rupp knew his 74 -75 team had a chance to go all the way. He had not been real close to a title in a few years and Wooden's success had weighed on Rupp. It actually came down to a board vote of a regular meeting. Rupp thought he had enough votes to get a exemption but there where alot of behind the scenes politicking as you can imagine. The group that thought Rupp's time had come and gone wanted him out and there where those who believed that Rupp deserved to go out on his own terms. Now as the media started to become a real thing with coach interviews after games there where fears that Adolph was going to embarrass us someway. Rupp was famous for speaking his mind. Ultimately Rupp's bid for exemption came up short. Joe B. Hall his top asst. was named head coach in a move that is unheard of today. I believe the thinking was that Joe would be the sacrificial lamb following Rupp but he was lucky enough to inherit a really good squad and Joe's best attribute was recruiting. The rest as they say is history !
Yes we do Jason but it isn't near as much fun as it used to be,don't rush it you'll get there soon enough