To me sometimes the difference between who wins and loses is strength of the wrestler (assuming the wrestler has some good basic moves). I watched the great Dake-Taylor matches and I always thought that Dake was just stronger than and Taylor-and somehow could muscle his way out of Taylor's moves. Flashforward to SVN-who i think is a terrific wrestler. I also realize he is a redshirt freshman. I just think that he is not yet quite as strong as the guys he lost to like Sasso last night. I think he is just as good if not better wrestler than Sasso-but Sasso-a senior-just was stronger. Am I off base here or right on? Hopefully SVN will get stronger with age and S&C-he is quick and has great moves.Any thoughts?
question from a former Not great wrestler
- Thread starter psykim
- Start date
I was a pretty good wrestler. I never lifted though. I wrestled plenty of guys who looked the part and were a lot stronger than me but it never made up for the gap in skill against me.
D1 is way different though. These guys have immense skill so it’s like the reverse. Strength absolutely matters and I think SVN will be elite once he gets stronger.
D1 is way different though. These guys have immense skill so it’s like the reverse. Strength absolutely matters and I think SVN will be elite once he gets stronger.
A long time ago in conversations with non-wrestling people about the sport when they would ask "why do you like wrestling", my answer would often be something like this. To be GREAT you need these things:
1. Mental toughness - if you don't believe in yourself and that you can win, you've already lost when you step on the mat
2. Constant discipline - not just for those 7+ minutes on the map but just about all day every day. Cael talked about it in the presser this week - managing your weight all week sets you up for success.
3. Quickness - you have to drill until reactions are just reflex and you must have those kind of muscle fibers
4. Strength - your entire body. I played many sports and wrestling by far was the one which engaged every muscle. There is not doubt that some moves take a crazy amount of strength to execute or you can be overwhelmed by the raw power of someone.
5. Balance & body awareness - creating angles and gaining leverage is essential to executing takedowns and maintaining a solid stance gives you the balance to fend off shots. Scoring points at the edge is the equivalent of a great receiver dragging his toes for an impossible catch along the sideline and all about body awareness.
6. Flexibility - Key to defense. How many guys do you see bend to the point that you can feel the pain in your own body. This is one of the biggest differences I see in the sport as compared to say 20 years ago. There are far more guys who are uber-flexible making it much harder to score.
7. Skill - you can't be a one-trick pony. Every wrestler has their go to/favorite moves that they enjoy or that just work for them and their style. But you've got to have a variety of moves and counters or your just too easy to neutralize.
Go down our lineup right now. Rate each of our guys on these 7 dimensions and then compare them to who they wrestled against from Michigan, Iowa and now Ohio State. The winner of each of those bouts is going to have a distinct advantage over the loser in probably a couple areas but it could just be one.
8. (this is an edit to my original post and I can't believe I let it off) Conditioning - This is somewhat tied to number 2 in the sense that poor weight management plays a part. Zain and Nolf are great examples. They had the deepest of gas tanks. They could go, go, and go some more. There were many times they exhausted their opponents by midway or end of the 2nd then that onslaught just went into silly territory. This genetics and training.
Back to your original post - it's been a while since I watched the matches, but in mind the reason Dake won was more about 5 & 6. He was just so damn hard to score on (and still is). He knew Taylor was going to be shoot and be agressive. As long as he held his position and created just enough action not to be called for stalling, he would be able to defend and score points off a counter. It is frustrating as hell to experience and even watch as a fan, but it is a reality of the sport.
1. Mental toughness - if you don't believe in yourself and that you can win, you've already lost when you step on the mat
2. Constant discipline - not just for those 7+ minutes on the map but just about all day every day. Cael talked about it in the presser this week - managing your weight all week sets you up for success.
3. Quickness - you have to drill until reactions are just reflex and you must have those kind of muscle fibers
4. Strength - your entire body. I played many sports and wrestling by far was the one which engaged every muscle. There is not doubt that some moves take a crazy amount of strength to execute or you can be overwhelmed by the raw power of someone.
5. Balance & body awareness - creating angles and gaining leverage is essential to executing takedowns and maintaining a solid stance gives you the balance to fend off shots. Scoring points at the edge is the equivalent of a great receiver dragging his toes for an impossible catch along the sideline and all about body awareness.
6. Flexibility - Key to defense. How many guys do you see bend to the point that you can feel the pain in your own body. This is one of the biggest differences I see in the sport as compared to say 20 years ago. There are far more guys who are uber-flexible making it much harder to score.
7. Skill - you can't be a one-trick pony. Every wrestler has their go to/favorite moves that they enjoy or that just work for them and their style. But you've got to have a variety of moves and counters or your just too easy to neutralize.
Go down our lineup right now. Rate each of our guys on these 7 dimensions and then compare them to who they wrestled against from Michigan, Iowa and now Ohio State. The winner of each of those bouts is going to have a distinct advantage over the loser in probably a couple areas but it could just be one.
8. (this is an edit to my original post and I can't believe I let it off) Conditioning - This is somewhat tied to number 2 in the sense that poor weight management plays a part. Zain and Nolf are great examples. They had the deepest of gas tanks. They could go, go, and go some more. There were many times they exhausted their opponents by midway or end of the 2nd then that onslaught just went into silly territory. This genetics and training.
Back to your original post - it's been a while since I watched the matches, but in mind the reason Dake won was more about 5 & 6. He was just so damn hard to score on (and still is). He knew Taylor was going to be shoot and be agressive. As long as he held his position and created just enough action not to be called for stalling, he would be able to defend and score points off a counter. It is frustrating as hell to experience and even watch as a fan, but it is a reality of the sport.
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Usually a big difference in skills and strength between a senior and a freshman. Sasso is a very good wrestler and is very dangerous even in the bottom position.
Based on your list, if I would rank you it, I would but strength on the low end of the list. So many other aspects of wrestling trump strength. Dake was never a muscle head, I would be willing to bet he isn't great in the weight room. It seems to me that it is easy to say, not strong enough when a move isn't finished, instead of saying if he had better technique or was quicker.
I agree. The way I see it, if you are in wrestling shape you are likely pretty "whole-body" strong. There are few guys where strength is the big difference. Some of the guys cutting a LOT of weight might have an advantage in a dual, but it haunts many of them come tournament time when they have to make weight 2 or 3 days in a row. You see them wilt.
Agree.
SVN is a redshirt Freshman, on the smaller side for his weight class, who's lost by regular decision to wrestlers ranked higher, sometimes by quite a bit, than he currently is. It's reasonable to expect that at some point there will be a breakthrough-, upset win. Who knows, maybe come tournament time.
It's interesting to compare redshirt Freshman Van Ness' first-year varsity results-to-date with those of true Freshman Levi Haines, who spent what would've otherwise been his Senior HS wrestling season competing in open collegiate tournaments against mostly mid- to lower-level competition. Van Ness had: (1) to deal with a significant injury during his redshirt and, to the best of my knowledge, (2) never faced organized, college-level competition before arriving at Penn State. Haines (1) did not have to deal with a significant injury and (2) faced college-level opponents in organized competition on multiple occasions as a high school Senior.
Circumstances alter cases, and (1) and (2), above, could go a long way toward explaining the difference in first-year results-to-date for two very talented college wrestlers.
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Don't forget Sasso came out of Nazareth....he had excellent coaching and big time match experience in HS against Easton, Northampton and rest of Lehigh Valley schools.
Something I've wondered about, not being a wrestler but enjoying our squad. Some of the OSU wrestlers appeared larger, more muscular than our young men. This is not the first time I've seen this apparent discrepancy.
Arizona State, as I remember, had an outstanding middle weight several years ago who always appeared a weight or two larger that his opponents. They have to make weight so is this an optical illusion or is there a method to the training making the size difference.
I look forward to some sage observations from our former wrestlers on the board.
Arizona State, as I remember, had an outstanding middle weight several years ago who always appeared a weight or two larger that his opponents. They have to make weight so is this an optical illusion or is there a method to the training making the size difference.
I look forward to some sage observations from our former wrestlers on the board.
I feel like Match Management should be #9. Knowing when to score is almost as important as knowing how to score. You also have to know how to save energy during a match and not empty the tank too soon. If you're ahead and in a tight spot you have to know some of the dark arts to waste time (shoot on a leg and hold on, use your stall warning, rest on bottom for a bit, throw in a leg on top and just ride...)
I'm sure everybody who has wrestled has a story like that. I remember beating a couple guys who looked like they'd tear my head off.
Strength plus skill wins every time. A year in weight room for all freshmen will go far with getting their strength to their skill set which in that room keeps improving.
