Recruiting concern

[xxxbobxxx]

I posted a few months ago wondering if anyone else was concerned about the lack of activity. Well, at this point, CCC has signed 2 out of 3 of his recruits in his last two classes. Only in his first short recruiting season did he bring them in later. In fact, by the first week of July a year ago, the 2016 class was complete.

Anybody growing a little concerned that there is little action on the recruiting front? Nobody committed, nobody even seemingly close. Any thoughts why? (I have some but am not ready to trigger the barrage of attacks yet.)

 

[NJCat]

I posted a few months ago wondering if anyone else was concerned about the lack of activity. Well, at this point, CCC has signed 2 out of 3 of his recruits in his last two classes. Only in his first short recruiting season did he bring them in later. In fact, by the first week of July a year ago, the 2016 class was complete.

Anybody growing a little concerned that there is little action on the recruiting front? Nobody committed, nobody even seemingly close. Any thoughts why? (I have some but am not ready to trigger the barrage of attacks yet.)

I think I'm not concerned. Collins is going after a higher caliber of recruit and now that he has his $110 Million Taj Chris to sell, he should be able to close the deal.

Look at the top 100 recruits on Rivals for 2017. Few (22) have committed.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

I think I'm not concerned. Collins is going after a higher caliber of recruit and now that he has his $110 Million Taj Chris to sell, he should be able to close the deal.

Look at the top 100 recruits on Rivals for 2017. Few (22) have committed.

I agree that the new renovations should help re-energize the recruiting. Still, I think it's unlikely we would land 3-4 Top 100 recruits. Our recent achievements has gotten into landing one. So, I think the Top 100 list is a red herring. The better question, even if we do get one of them again, where are the other recruits coming from?

 

[NJCat]

The better question, even if we do get one of them again, where are the other recruits coming from?

High school. Lighten up, Francis........

 

[YesterdaysCat]

I agree that the new renovations should help re-energize the recruiting. Still, I think it's unlikely we would land 3-4 Top 100 recruits. Our recent achievements has gotten into landing one. So, I think the Top 100 list is a red herring. The better question, even if we do get one of them again, where are the other recruits coming from?

The new locker rooms will be a selling point, too. Fitzgerald sold the new Taj Mafitz years before they broke ground. I think he promised last year's seniors that they would be training in it and maybe the previous year's class, too. The point is that you can get a lot of recruiting mileage from a few artist renderings and big promises. Collins is going after a much higher caliber recruit and I think he feels if he strikes out that he can always sign kids in the spring or pursue graduate transfers if need be, especially if the 2016-17 team goes to the postseason.

 

[ThatadultfromHolland]

I think once one of those top recruits commit to NU we should see the other shortly follow. I could be very wrong but I just feel like the top recruits want to see a little more promise in the program and the reason why they're still interested is academics and all the other pros NU brings also they probably believe in what Collins is building but want a little more evidence and if he brings in another solid recruiting class that bodes very well for the future.

 

[Medill90]

The better question, even if we do get one of them again, where are the other recruits coming from?

High school.

 

[Sec_112]

... I think it's unlikely we would land 3-4 Top 100 recruits ...

I think it's unlikely NU will land 3-4 top 500 recruits since there are only two spots open.

I think there are all kinds of signs recruiting is not going in the direction the staff originally planned. That's fine. It's Northwestern, and anybody with half a brain understands it's a battle. This staff has demonstrated several times they understand "the market," and I'd bet they're smart enough to not be caught off guard if their early-bets-turned-top-100 recruits don't sign.

Last thought: It's not the activity and ratings in June that count.

 

[CommodoresAndCats]

We're still in the running for top targets so I think Collins is still trying to get his first choices in the door. If he strikes out you'll see him moving on to recruits that were similar high school caliber to Skelly, Pardon, Lindsey etc.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

I think it's unlikely NU will land 3-4 top 500 recruits since there are only two spots open.

I think there are all kinds of signs recruiting is not going in the direction the staff originally planned. That's fine. It's Northwestern, and anybody with half a brain understands it's a battle. This staff has demonstrated several times they understand "the market," and I'd bet they're smart enough to not be caught off guard if their early-bets-turned-top-100 recruits don't sign.

Last thought: It's not the activity and ratings in June that count.

What signs are those? We have a lot of guys with eligibility left and none of them is going pro early, so HS guys who presume they're "one and done" see roadblocks. It's a good problem to have frankly and plenty of talent is available.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

What signs are those? We have a lot of guys with eligibility left and none of them is going pro early, so HS guys who presume they're "one and done" see roadblocks. It's a good problem to have frankly and plenty of talent is available.

The phrase 'good problem to have' comes from two scenarios. Mega teams, mega corps that are established, set the curve, dominate...and by teams down and out looking for the bright side. I would take a one and own caliber talent over any starter we have and hope to persuade him into two years and countless years of recruiting value.

One and done does not have to mean academically challenged. Some of these guys choose to complete their degrees.

Secondly, a one and down does not see anyone on our squad as a road block. Assume the number one ranked PG was also brilliant, do you think he could, and would, not unseat Mac by conference. (Reality is he would start day 1 and Mac would slide into the 2.) Maybe the top forward in the incoming class fears...Falzon, Law, RI? Seriously? Tell me any of the top C's would worry about being blocked by Pardon, or Benson.

Sec is probably right. Cards aren't falling as hoped, new recruiting tool just unveiled and they are holding out hope. But expect the next class to be small and unimpressive. Year after? New facilities will help. Overachieving this year would help more with a little positive national PR.

 

[Walker Fan]

Here we go again with irrelevant arguments. One and done guys who are drafted in the first round are top 10 guys in the nation out of high school or top 5 guys in the nation. Last time I checked California is not a mega program and a pretty strong academic program and they had the no. 3 pick in the draft Jaylen Brown. How did they do it? A coach willing to hire a crooked assistant who got fired during the season. So NU is not willing to take those shortcuts.

Next idea debunked: NU has 2 scholarships available so yes, good deduction in that the class will be small.

As for what would happen if NU brought in the top PG in the nation? Duke did that and their PG transferred in short time to USC. That would happen quickly with BMac who is not defensively able to guard talented SGs. So that theory is blown up.

NU is recruiting mainly 4 star guys and now starting to go after high 3 star guys. Collins knows what he is doing. Too bad 4 star guys really want to ride the pines on MSU and never get the minutes to allow their games to develop like Alvin Ellis is doing. Then the following year after a four star guy goes to MSU they could ride the bench as they bring in a 5 star guy.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

the program has had 3-5 kids in so far and has a few more coming in the next few weeks. there is no media reports because these are unofficial visits. i have heard good things about the names who have visited. can't share those names - but have faith in knowing that CCC and staff are hitting the recruiting trail hard.

 

[Max_Power]

Love the tape of Jordan Nwora who they offered yesterday. Yeah its a highlight tape but he's Skelly with range to 28 feet. His average star ranking is like .5 yet he has dozens of offers.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Love the tape of Jordan Nwora who they offered yesterday. Yeah its a highlight tape but he's Skelly with range to 28 feet. His average star ranking is like .5 yet he has dozens of offers.

Stop blowing holes in xyzbobxyz's arguments. At this rate, his ship will be on the ocean's bottom and he won't be able to post anymore. Wait, what am I saying? Keep going.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

Stop blowing holes in xyzbobxyz's arguments. At this rate, his ship will be on the ocean's bottom and he won't be able to post anymore. Wait, what am I saying? Keep going.

Sure. Old schtick you got going there. Proof will be in the pudding. I look forward to being wrong and seeing this year's Falzon, Law, RI.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

Stop blowing holes in xyzbobxyz's arguments. At this rate, his ship will be on the ocean's bottom and he won't be able to post anymore. Wait, what am I saying? Keep going.

Btw yesterday, why are you on my arse? My rant about Vassar had you more aligned than disagreeing. What have I done draw your ire? Or is this FB board related?

 

[xxxbobxxx]

Here we go again with irrelevant arguments. One and done guys who are drafted in the first round are top 10 guys in the nation out of high school or top 5 guys in the nation. Last time I checked California is not a mega program and a pretty strong academic program and they had the no. 3 pick in the draft Jaylen Brown. How did they do it? A coach willing to hire a crooked assistant who got fired during the season. So NU is not willing to take those shortcuts.

Next idea debunked: NU has 2 scholarships available so yes, good deduction in that the class will be small.

As for what would happen if NU brought in the top PG in the nation? Duke did that and their PG transferred in short time to USC. That would happen quickly with BMac who is not defensively able to guard talented SGs. So that theory is blown up.

NU is recruiting mainly 4 star guys and now starting to go after high 3 star guys. Collins knows what he is doing. Too bad 4 star guys really want to ride the pines on MSU and never get the minutes to allow their games to develop like Alvin Ellis is doing. Then the following year after a four star guy goes to MSU they could ride the bench as they bring in a 5 star guy.

I think you are wrong about Bmac not able to defend the 2. And remember he was a 2 in HS, a combo guard in a the recruiting trail and offered 'lead' guard here. Typically, a one is quicker, often smaller of the two guards. Bmac might struggle against the rarer tall SGs.

But to this point, let me ask you: do you see brown on the floor at all this year? If so, where is Mac - resting on the bench or on the floor? If on the floor, who is playing, or defending, which guard positions?

Also, we have landed at least one 4 star each year under CCC (I think benson bounced but 3 and 4 depending on the service, as did RI, so I would argue at least one is 4 star.) My original post was the concern of that pattern disappearing. Instead of improving, I fear we slipped back to 3's. You seem to agree unintentionally.

 

[Walker Fan]

Yes, Isiah Brown will see minutes because we will need his offense. He will either be the PG who leads the second unit or play some minutes with BMac.

As for your gloom and doom predictions about 2017 recruiting, please recall that
Vic Law, our highest rated recruit in the past 20 years committed on the 4th of July weekend. So we are not behind according to your made up time line.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

I didn't make up anything. In any earlier thread I recounted the signing history of most the CCC. By most, that leaves exception ripe for your cherry pick.

Doom and gloom? I think I have stated concerned. You must be among the koolaid klanners that find anything short adulterated belief and support for the programs to be treasonous. You must really enjoy the silence around here without anything else to discuss. You could simply choose not to participate.

Btw, you failed to answer the question: if brown and Mac share the floor, who guards the opponent's two? Or is it more zone? You know I believe the answer is Mac. I also think CCC wants more man and less zone. So maybe we will witness the answer in a few months. Also then to be able to answer if Mac can guard a 2.

Yes, Isiah Brown will see minutes because we will need his offense. He will either be the PG who leads the second unit or play some minutes with BMac.

As for your gloom and doom predictions about 2017 recruiting, please recall that
Vic Law, our highest rated recruit in the past 20 years committed on the 4th of July weekend. So we are not behind according to your made up time line.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Btw yesterday, why are you on my arse? My rant about Vassar had you more aligned than disagreeing. What have I done draw your ire? Or is this FB board related?

I agree with you about Vassar, but this unrelented criticism of Coach Collins is sad. At this point, you're complaining about our small recruiting class when it's two guys and Coach has a loooonnnnng time to sign them.

Next you'll complain about how we haven't made it to the NCAAs under Collins.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Also, we have landed at least one 4 star each year under CCC (I think benson bounced but 3 and 4 depending on the service, as did RI, so I would argue at least one is 4 star.) My original post was the concern of that pattern disappearing. Instead of improving, I fear we slipped back to 3's. You seem to agree unintentionally.

What's wrong with 3s, though? The 2017-18 team will be loaded with returning players. We'll have to replace Taphorn and Lumpkin... and that's it. We're still a far cry from a recruiting class of Vince Scott and a pair of sneakers that Coach Carmody bought at Old Orchard.

 

[NJCat]

The 2017-18 team will be loaded with returning players.

2017-18 is THE year. Cats finally make the NCAA Toonament. Book it.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

I agree with you about Vassar, but this unrelented criticism of Coach Collins is sad. At this point, you're complaining about our small recruiting class when it's two guys and Coach has a loooonnnnng time to sign them.

Next you'll complain about how we haven't made it to the NCAAs under Collins.

Inaccurate. Listen, I get the vitriol from the klan. But I am a CCC fan, doesn't mean I cannot be critical. He is no savior. I'm a sox fan yet KW and RH have been driving me crazy. I like Ventura, but don't like him as the manager. But I digress.

You can buy into the klan and va, it's your right, but they are wrong. I liked the hire and still have faith, but my head is not in the sand. Take that as you want.

 

[ThatadultfromHolland]

Wasn't Mac a 3 star and the best player out of his class? I'd take 3 stars like him anyday. But Collins is doing a great job recruiting talent and I am a little impatient with no commits yet but I'm just a worrier I'm sure he will fill the spots with big ten talent. Collins hasn't really failed at bringing talent to NU.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

What's wrong with 3s, though? The 2017-18 team will be loaded with returning players. We'll have to replace Taphorn and Lumpkin... and that's it. We're still a far cry from a recruiting class of Vince Scott and a pair of sneakers that Coach Carmody bought at Old Orchard.

Ok, if you don't herald thee 4 and 5's. But I thing it's the glass half full approach. I doubt you, nor anyone here would pick landing a 3 over a 4 if it was that easy. Heck, I recall the Law savior rhetoric, which I thought unfair. How excited was the Board for Benson, Falzon, RI. It differed in volume compared to Skelly, Vassar, etc.

When we get them, there is excitement. And we have got them each year of the CCC reign. This year seems different. And maybe, hopefully, I'm wrong. But history is not supportative and history separates us from the unintelligent. In theory.

We will land two recruits. (Still curious of the source of the open schollie for the potential addition to the current class...) But will they be another potential (Skelly, Lindsey) or an acknowledged talent (them 4s), well latter case is not looking strong.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

Wasn't Mac a 3 star and the best player out of his class? I'd take 3 stars like him anyday. But Collins is doing a great job recruiting talent and I am a little impatient with no commits yet but I'm just a worrier I'm sure he will fill the spots with big ten talent. Collins hasn't really failed at bringing talent to NU.

He was. Did you get more excited about Mac or Law in that class. Be honest. Or Lindsey or Skelly - also 3s?

Would you prefer never taking higher than a 3? Of course not. They are all lottery tickets. The more stars, the higher probability.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

Wasn't Mac a 3 star and the best player out of his class? I'd take 3 stars like him anyday. But Collins is doing a great job recruiting talent and I am a little impatient with no commits yet but I'm just a worrier I'm sure he will fill the spots with big ten talent. Collins hasn't really failed at bringing talent to NU.

And Mac is great but let's not puff. He won't be an All American. Might not be a All Big 10 First teamer. He is our best player and glue. He is not the lost ark of recruiting.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

I feel like I should change my handle to 'keeping it real.'

 

[ThatadultfromHolland]

He was. Did you get more excited about Mac or Law in that class. Be honest. Or Lindsey or Skelly - also 3s?

Would you prefer never taking higher than a 3? Of course not. They are all lottery tickets. The more stars, the higher probability.

I was most excited about law in all honesty and I'm still hopeful about skelly he's improved a lot. But I'd take high 3 stars over a lot of 4 stars. I'm not saying only 3 stars I'd extremely happy with a one and done talent but I wouldn't be disappointed with these to guys being high level 3 stars.

 

[ThatadultfromHolland]

And Mac is great but let's not puff. He won't be an All American. Might not be a All Big 10 First teamer. He is our best player and glue. He is not the lost ark of recruiting.

No but he's one of the best players I've seen here (granted short watching time) and id love to have a starting 5 with his ability (given to fit each position that is) I bet they'd easily make the tournament.

 

[NUCat320]

At this point, you're complaining about our small recruiting class when it's two guys and Coach has a loooonnnnng time to sign them.

He's not complaining. He's stating concern, that this class is differing in timing from previous classes, and perhaps we're going deeper into plan B guys than previously (he implied the Plan B thing, and I'm stating it). I think it's a valid point.

I don't know enough to know if we set our sights higher than previously. I do know the signing period starts in, what, four months, and NU is 0% complete. It's not a problem, but it becomes one if that number is still 0% in, say, six weeks (it is my sense that commitments slow in pace when school resumes, and that the hoops action is hottest in the summer).

 

[xxxbobxxx]

He's not complaining. He's stating concern, that this class is differing in timing from previous classes, and perhaps we're going deeper into plan B guys than previously (he implied the Plan B thing, and I'm stating it). I think it's a valid point.

I don't know enough to know if we set our sights higher than previously. I do know the signing period starts in, what, four months, and NU is 0% complete. It's not a problem, but it becomes one if that number is still 0% in, say, six weeks (it is my sense that commitments slow in pace when school resumes, and that the hoops action is hottest in the summer).

Thank you for your voice of reason.

 

[hdhntr1]

He was. Did you get more excited about Mac or Law in that class. Be honest. Or Lindsey or Skelly - also 3s?

Would you prefer never taking higher than a 3? Of course not. They are all lottery tickets. The more stars, the higher probability.

Actually I was pretty excited to see Skelly come in because he represented something I had not seen at NU under BC since TH. Sure I like seeing 4s but just as important is that the lowest level of his recruits has been a 3 star. And most of them have been a different level of athlete as well.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

He's not complaining. He's stating concern, that this class is differing in timing from previous classes, and perhaps we're going deeper into plan B guys than previously (he implied the Plan B thing, and I'm stating it). I think it's a valid point.

I don't know enough to know if we set our sights higher than previously. I do know the signing period starts in, what, four months, and NU is 0% complete. It's not a problem, but it becomes one if that number is still 0% in, say, six weeks (it is my sense that commitments slow in pace when school resumes, and that the hoops action is hottest in the summer).

Oh, come now. He was complaining. He's "concerned" remember? That's PC for "I have a complaint."

We have two spots to fill and we'll have a lot of returning minutes. We're not Kentucky where six guys are leaving for the NBA and Collins can promise a lot of run to a frosh. It wouldn't bother me at all if we sign guys in the spring or don't sign anybody at all and pick up two graduate transfers instead and roll those scholies over.

I wouldn't be "concerned" and won't be "concerned" until we have four starters graduating and no viable recruits coming in.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

Oh, come now. He was complaining. He's "concerned" remember? That's PC for "I have a complaint."

We have two spots to fill and we'll have a lot of returning minutes. We're not Kentucky where six guys are leaving for the NBA and Collins can promise a lot of run to a frosh. It wouldn't bother me at all if we sign guys in the spring or don't sign anybody at all and pick up two graduate transfers instead and roll those scholies over.

I wouldn't be "concerned" and won't be "concerned" until we have four starters graduating and no viable recruits coming in.

Thanks for the interpretation of my own words. Wanna get married? My wife loves that routine too.

But I find your analysis intriguing.

2017
G: Mac. That's it. Ash - raise your hand if you are confident. Lindsey, see Ash. Oh wait, frosh savior will be the bet. Law - SF or SG or guy that got hurt and doesn't get back to pre injury levels. Who knows? 80 minutes and Mac can't play them all. Maybe Vassar returns as the next MJ...

F: Falzon - does he go up or down. Who knows? Law? You mean the savior at the off guard? How many positions can he play at once. RI - let's hope this unproven Frosh turns into the real deal. What are the statistical odds? Skelly- I can see him starting. That would be Sanjay 2.0 - new and improved, but not winning you any championships.

And then center. Pardon - of Nebraska or otherwise. Better or figured out. Benson - another pin our hopes on the unproven frosh.

So Yesterday, no we are not KY. But what stellar, standout beyond Mac do you have? You have lots of POTENTIALS. And four open spots. I think we need to hit on high ceiling recruits every year if we want to arrive on the national scene. We need another big recruit - ideally a G as we have high potential recruits at F and C and an established solid guy a G.

And if it happens, great. We have a better chance. If not, well, you apologists can start raising your abstract, consolatory arguments yet again. I want to see another landmark recruit..

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Thanks for the interpretation of my own words. Wanna get married? My wife loves that routine too.

But I find your analysis intriguing.

2017
G: Mac. That's it. Ash - raise your hand if you are confident. Lindsey, see Ash. Oh wait, frosh savior will be the bet. Law - SF or SG or guy that got hurt and doesn't get back to pre injury levels. Who knows? 80 minutes and Mac can't play them all. Maybe Vassar returns as the next MJ...

F: Falzon - does he go up or down. Who knows? Law? You mean the savior at the off guard? How many positions can he play at once. RI - let's hope this unproven Frosh turns into the real deal. What are the statistical odds? Skelly- I can see him starting. That would be Sanjay 2.0 - new and improved, but not winning you any championships.

And then center. Pardon - of Nebraska or otherwise. Better or figured out. Benson - another pin our hopes on the unproven frosh.

So Yesterday, no we are not KY. But what stellar, standout beyond Mac do you have? You have lots of POTENTIALS. And four open spots. I think we need to hit on high ceiling recruits every year if we want to arrive on the national scene. We need another big recruit - ideally a G as we have high potential recruits at F and C and an established solid guy a G.

And if it happens, great. We have a better chance. If not, well, you apologists can start raising your abstract, consolatory arguments yet again. I want to see another landmark recruit..

That was not really my point. Assuming Coach keeps all of these guys, they're going to be around a while yet. You point out that we don't know about Falzon, Law, RI, Pardon, Benson, Ash. Well, no crap, Coolio. Your "analysis" is hardly genius. We're talking about guys with 3 or 4 years of eligibility here. You're already concerned RI and Benson won't pan out. Great!

You keep talking about apologists. That would make you the xyzChicken Littlexyz.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Thanks for the interpretation of my own words. Wanna get married? My wife loves that routine too.

 

[docrugby1]

2017-18 is THE year. Cats finally make the NCAA Toonament. Book it.

Do you mean the year we play all our home games away ?

 

[NJCat]

Do you mean the year we play all our home games away ?

That too......