Recruiting travel budget

[Pukecat]

I read this article about Ohio State's Chris Holtmann
https://www.buckeyextra.com/sports/...io-state-mens-basketball-coach-chris-holtmann

and I wondered how much Northwestern holds back Collins from doing what he needs to do on the road. As I said in other threads, now that the arena is done and the facilities are happening, we have to turn our attention to more admissions leeway and the recruitment/travel budget.

 

[hdhntr1]

I read this article about Ohio State's Chris Holtmann
https://www.buckeyextra.com/sports/...io-state-mens-basketball-coach-chris-holtmann

and I wondered how much Northwestern holds back Collins from doing what he needs to do on the road. As I said in other threads, now that the arena is done and the facilities are happening, we have to turn our attention to more admissions leeway and the recruitment/travel budget.

The recruiting budget is likely OK But admissions now seems to be the restriction

 

[IdahoAlum]

Man this admissions refrain is getting old. As I've noted in many previous posts, this is all in Collins' court. If he feels his program is being treated unfairly, he needs to go see Phillips and lay out his case. Then, if there is no response, he has to make a decision -- stick to the program or move on. I have a hard time buying this dichotomy that recruiting has improved so tremendously under Collins, but admissions is killing us. Which is it? NU is signing three and four-star players. Many of them are not producing. Is that admissions' fault?

Sure NU is a tough gig. Not a large percentage of 18-year-olds want to put in the time and effort to succeed academically at a place NU. A much smaller percentage have that desire and can play basketball at the Big Ten level. We get it. That's why I'm not advocating we fire Collins. Give him all the time he needs to be successful. But at some point players gotta play, recruiters gotta recruit and coaches gotta coach. Oh, and admissions gotta admit. Or not....

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Man this admissions refrain is getting old. As I've noted in many previous posts, this is all in Collins' court. If he feels his program is being treated unfairly, he needs to go see Phillips and lay out his case. Then, if there is no response, he has to make a decision -- stick to the program or move on. I have a hard time buying this dichotomy that recruiting has improved so tremendously under Collins, but admissions is killing us. Which is it? NU is signing three and four-star players. Many of them are not producing. Is that admissions' fault?

Sure NU is a tough gig. Not a large percentage of 18-year-olds want to put in the time and effort to succeed academically at a place NU. A much smaller percentage have that desire and can play basketball at the Big Ten level. We get it. That's why I'm not advocating we fire Collins. Give him all the time he needs to be successful. But at some point players gotta play, recruiters gotta recruit and coaches gotta coach. Oh, and admissions gotta admit. Or not....

Well our own insider has said they were a few transfers this year that NU had to stop recruiting because they wouldn’t be admitted. Freeman was one of them. Apparently, NU admissions goes back to HS transcripts in admission decisions. Even on graduate transfers that have been in college at least 4 years. These are players that are eligible and in good standing at the time of transfer.

What none of us know is which prospects have we legitimately had a shot at that CCC couldn’t offer. He certainly has had too many misses, but we don’t know if is as handcuffed as as some suggest that it forces him to Tier 2 guys. I would bet CCC has had numerous conversations with Phillips about extending some leeway. Doesn’t mean Phillips can accomplish this change. Look at the number of offers compared to other similar schools. This has to be a coordinated effort and money doesn’t completely solve it.

 

[willycat]

Man this admissions refrain is getting old. As I've noted in many previous posts, this is all in Collins' court. If he feels his program is being treated unfairly, he needs to go see Phillips and lay out his case. Then, if there is no response, he has to make a decision -- stick to the program or move on. I have a hard time buying this dichotomy that recruiting has improved so tremendously under Collins, but admissions is killing us. Which is it? NU is signing three and four-star players. Many of them are not producing. Is that admissions' fault?

Sure NU is a tough gig. Not a large percentage of 18-year-olds want to put in the time and effort to succeed academically at a place NU. A much smaller percentage have that desire and can play basketball at the Big Ten level. We get it. That's why I'm not advocating we fire Collins. Give him all the time he needs to be successful. But at some point players gotta play, recruiters gotta recruit and coaches gotta coach. Oh, and admissions gotta admit. Or not....

Why not?

 

[IGNORE]

Man this admissions refrain is getting old. As I've noted in many previous posts, this is all in Collins' court. If he feels his program is being treated unfairly, he needs to go see Phillips and lay out his case. Then, if there is no response, he has to make a decision -- stick to the program or move on. I have a hard time buying this dichotomy that recruiting has improved so tremendously under Collins, but admissions is killing us. Which is it? NU is signing three and four-star players. Many of them are not producing. Is that admissions' fault?

Sure NU is a tough gig. Not a large percentage of 18-year-olds want to put in the time and effort to succeed academically at a place NU. A much smaller percentage have that desire and can play basketball at the Big Ten level. We get it. That's why I'm not advocating we fire Collins. Give him all the time he needs to be successful. But at some point players gotta play, recruiters gotta recruit and coaches gotta coach. Oh, and admissions gotta admit. Or not....

I agree but would go further. If he can't get some relief, help the next guy. On the way, profess a love for the team, the school, blah blah blah - but that the admission are so terribly restrictive it has destroyed any chance of fielding a competitive team and any coach that chooses to replace him should be considered for sainthood.

Maybe that, plus a very challenging effort to replace replace CCC, would shame the institution into some changes.

 

[gradeck]

Man this admissions refrain is getting old.

Exactly.

There’s no reason to think it’s going to change. Bemoaning admissions is like bemoaning the fact that it’s cold in the Winter in Evanston. It’s an uncontrollable factor.

 

[IGNORE]

Exactly.

There’s no reason to think it’s going to change. Bemoaning admissions is like bemoaning the fact that it’s cold in the Winter in Evanston. It’s an uncontrollable factor.

Is it everything we talked about here uncontrollable from perspective?

 

[willycat]

Exactly.

There’s no reason to think it’s going to change. Bemoaning admissions is like bemoaning the fact that it’s cold in the Winter in Evanston. It’s an uncontrollable factor.

Maybe then take advice of a former President of NU and move to the Ivy League. No scholarships = one problem solved.

 

[mikewebb68]

Here is our 247 composite average player rankings over the history of the 247 composite:

2019 --.9016
2018 - .9110
2017-- .8868 (one player average)
2016-- .8884
2015-- .8873
2014-- .8664
2013-- .8789 (CC unweighted average: .8886)
2012--.8643
2011-- .8074
2010-- . .9100 (one player average)
2009-- .8808
2008-- .8584
2007-- .8903
2006-- .8259
2005-- No players
2004-- .7889
2003-- .8000 (BC last 10-year unweighted average not including 2005= .8473)

Can anyone identify a general trend here? (Hint: it is inconsistent with a narrative that our recruiting has not improved substantially under CC due to academic restrictions...)

 

[hdhntr1]

Man this admissions refrain is getting old. As I've noted in many previous posts, this is all in Collins' court. If he feels his program is being treated unfairly, he needs to go see Phillips and lay out his case. Then, if there is no response, he has to make a decision -- stick to the program or move on. I have a hard time buying this dichotomy that recruiting has improved so tremendously under Collins, but admissions is killing us. Which is it? NU is signing three and four-star players. Many of them are not producing. Is that admissions' fault?

Sure NU is a tough gig. Not a large percentage of 18-year-olds want to put in the time and effort to succeed academically at a place NU. A much smaller percentage have that desire and can play basketball at the Big Ten level. We get it. That's why I'm not advocating we fire Collins. Give him all the time he needs to be successful. But at some point players gotta play, recruiters gotta recruit and coaches gotta coach. Oh, and admissions gotta admit. Or not....

In order to put together a competitive team, you have to have at least 8-10 top guys distributed between positions. Recruiting can be stronger in bringing in more top guys but still hurting because admissions restricts the ability to fill the roster with enough guys at the right positions. PG is an example. Top PGs that are also good academically are rare when something happens to your guy it is tough to replace. Same if a top guy decides to go elsewhere.

 

[hdhntr1]

Exactly.

There’s no reason to think it’s going to change. Bemoaning admissions is like bemoaning the fact that it’s cold in the Winter in Evanston. It’s an uncontrollable factor.

Doesn't have to completely change but being more flexible for a couple guys does not destroy the academic reputation of the whole school

 

[Max_Power]

Here is our 247 composite average player rankings over the history of the 247 composite:

2019 --.9016
2018 - .9110
2017-- .8868 (one player average)
2016-- .8884
2015-- .8873
2014-- .8664
2013-- .8789 (CC unweighted average: .8886)
2012--.8643
2011-- .8074
2010-- . .9100 (one player average)
2009-- .8808
2008-- .8584
2007-- .8903
2006-- .8259
2005-- No players
2004-- .7889
2003-- .8000 (BC last 10-year unweighted average not including 2005= .8473)

Can anyone identify a general trend here? (Hint: it is inconsistent with a narrative that our recruiting has not improved substantially under CC due to academic restrictions...)

Skeptic sees numbers and asks: What was the overall trend for power 5 programs? If they all trended up then it’s inflation caused by websites over ranking recruits as click bait.

That said - Collins has landed higher rated recruits with better offers. He has also failed to land elite talent at point guard or land a player like Taphorn or Lumpkin who are solid kids who develop into big contributors.

 

[Medill90]

Man this admissions refrain is getting old. As I've noted in many previous posts, this is all in Collins' court. If he feels his program is being treated unfairly, he needs to go see Phillips and lay out his case. Then, if there is no response, he has to make a decision -- stick to the program or move on. I have a hard time buying this dichotomy that recruiting has improved so tremendously under Collins, but admissions is killing us. Which is it? NU is signing three and four-star players. Many of them are not producing. Is that admissions' fault?

Sure NU is a tough gig. Not a large percentage of 18-year-olds want to put in the time and effort to succeed academically at a place NU. A much smaller percentage have that desire and can play basketball at the Big Ten level. We get it. That's why I'm not advocating we fire Collins. Give him all the time he needs to be successful. But at some point players gotta play, recruiters gotta recruit and coaches gotta coach. Oh, and admissions gotta admit. Or not....

I know from faculty/administration that Schapiro has, perhaps more than any of his predecessors, pushed the revenue sports....and specifically as a way to improve diversity. I also know that a lot of the faculty has long been tenured, and could give two bits about sports. So I think Phillips has likely pushed and Schapiro has pushed and the movement has been tectonic-like.

So, I'm with you that Collins has to make a decision and I think we're in that period now.

I agree with you on the "players gotta play." Collins can't take and make the shots. For a couple years they've gotten open looks and can't knock it down and a rate competitive with the conference. Some guys have to play, that's why they're here.

Just want to add that I think the slightest move on bb admissions still keeps us well above the rest of the conference....level with or above Vandy, Stanford, etc. It means opening it up for one or two players per year.

 

[Pukecat]

Exactly.

There’s no reason to think it’s going to change. Bemoaning admissions is like bemoaning the fact that it’s cold in the Winter in Evanston. It’s an uncontrollable factor.

Why is it uncontrollable?

 

[IGNORE]

Here is our 247 composite average player rankings over the history of the 247 composite:

2019 --.9016
2018 - .9110
2017-- .8868 (one player average)
2016-- .8884
2015-- .8873
2014-- .8664
2013-- .8789 (CC unweighted average: .8886)
2012--.8643
2011-- .8074
2010-- . .9100 (one player average)
2009-- .8808
2008-- .8584
2007-- .8903
2006-- .8259
2005-- No players
2004-- .7889
2003-- .8000 (BC last 10-year unweighted average not including 2005= .8473)

Can anyone identify a general trend here? (Hint: it is inconsistent with a narrative that our recruiting has not improved substantially under CC due to academic restrictions...)

Um, not sure anyone disagrees that recruit rankings have improved under CCC. Player development, player retention, game management and most importantly - win loss records.

 

[mikewebb68]

Um, not sure anyone disagrees that recruit rankings have improved under CCC. Player development, player retention, game management and most importantly - win loss records.

There were actually several people on here who believe that our recruiting is not improving and that academic restrictions are to blame. That's why I posted the numbers..

 

[hdhntr1]

There were actually several people on here who believe that our recruiting is not improving and that academic restrictions are to blame. That's why I posted the numbers..

We have always had academic restrictions. While in the past it and our other issues kept us from getting any real top talent, now that those other issues have been somewhat resolved, we have been able to bring in some top talent. However now the academic restictions have limited our ability to put together full classes that balance out to form a complete team

 

[Pukecat]

There were actually several people on here who believe that our recruiting is not improving and that academic restrictions are to blame. That's why I posted the numbers..

Who said that? Sounds like one of your straw man arguments again.