Some of you older gentlemen, please answer this question for me. Besides the obvious (Final Four and Sweet 16), what is the main difference between Rick Stansbury and Richard Williams. I don't have numbers, but it seems that Richard Williams and Rick Stansbury are both defensive minded coaches. Stans will never be offensive minded, but we always seem to be around the top of the SEC in defensive statistics like rebounding and points allowed. What kind of offense did we put up under Williams?
Richard Williams and Stansbury Comparison
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Some of you older gentlemen, please answer this question for me. Besides the obvious (Final Four and Sweet 16), what is the main difference between Rick Stansbury and Richard Williams. I don't have numbers, but it seems that Richard Williams and Rick Stansbury are both defensive minded coaches. Stans will never be offensive minded, but we always seem to be around the top of the SEC in defensive statistics like rebounding and points allowed. What kind of offense did we put up under Williams?
Some of you older gentlemen, please answer this question for me. Besides the obvious (Final Four and Sweet 16), what is the main difference between Rick Stansbury and Richard Williams. I don't have numbers, but it seems that Richard Williams and Rick Stansbury are both defensive minded coaches. Stans will never be offensive minded, but we always seem to be around the top of the SEC in defensive statistics like rebounding and points allowed. What kind of offense did we put up under Williams?
Williams: Absolutely hated recruiting, much more inconsistent in terms of winning - he won more when he won but he also had a lot more bad seasons, not willing to change his style of play much.
Stans: Works very hard at recruiting, consistently pretty good - rarely great and rarely bad, more willing to change things up - used to be criticized for pounding the ball inside, now is criticized for just jacking up 3's.
Stans: Works very hard at recruiting, consistently pretty good - rarely great and rarely bad, more willing to change things up - used to be criticized for pounding the ball inside, now is criticized for just jacking up 3's.
Richard was a set offensive minded person like Knight. Setting solid picks, knowing how to come off of screens properly. He was tough on his players in that sense. I don't recall us averaging high totals, maybe high 50's to mid 60's on average.
Rick is polar opposite offensively speaking. If you are open, jack it. Richard would pull your *** if you weren't doing what he told you to do. None of the current players would survive under Richard except JV.
Rick is polar opposite offensively speaking. If you are open, jack it. Richard would pull your *** if you weren't doing what he told you to do. None of the current players would survive under Richard except JV.
Tricky Dick's teams were fundamentally sound. Not always the best 'talent', but as far as the basics of basketball, always solid. Never saw 4 guys stand around and watch the ball. Always motion and with a purpose. I can't tell you how many times Todd Merritt or Russell Walters or (fill in the blank) would catch an opponent with a solid screen in the middle of the floor. Or how many times you could hear Dick scream 'BART!' during a game.
Like him or not, players respected Richard Williams and you did it his way. I've never seen Stans pull a player for a behind the back pass. Dick pulled players all the time for 'playground' stuff.</p>
Like him or not, players respected Richard Williams and you did it his way. I've never seen Stans pull a player for a behind the back pass. Dick pulled players all the time for 'playground' stuff.</p>
the message boards would have had complete melt down in the 96 regular season. blowout to Kentucky at home, loss bama at home, loss UM and Vandy on road. We also barely beat a horrible Tenn team at home and barley beat UM at home (one of the ugliest games i've seen), and loss to UALR at home. Its not until the tournamet when the offense that was run was throw it to dampier if he is doubled throw it to Jones, Bullard, or Wilson to shoot three. Not exactly at complicated offense
Wilson went for about 35 that day and I remember running on the court after the win. I remember laughing in Antonio McDyess' face and running away. Typical 15 year old behavior.
When is the last time that you have seen a back door cut. Super D scored on that play at least once a game. One of our problems is the lack of a true post player. JV does not attract a double team most of the time. We have had decent offenses with players like Austin, Roberts, and Rhodes. This year we also lack a anyone that can drive the lane.
95 is when Wilson went for 35, the poster above is right that Washington hit three at buzzer. If I was going to question a comment, I think I would make sure my facts were right. Besides the two postseason runs of 95 and 96, Stansbury tenure is hands down bettter.
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We were a top 10 preseason team. If we had, say, lost to UK in the SECT final, and lost in the 2nd round of the NCAA's, what would the expectations and opinions be today? Markedly different, I imagine. Dontae Jones just went apeshit for 3 weeks in March, and nobody in America could guard him, combined with the presence of Damp and Wilson getting hot, we were virtually unstoppable. ****, we almost lost to VCU in the first round, and it wasn't Wilson or Bullard or Damp or Dontae that bailed us out. It was Bart 17ing Hyche. Sometimes, you have to be lucky. What if UCLA beats Princeton? So much happens in March that is out of your control - the stars aligned for us, and we rode it out. But that 2 week time frame has skewed so many people's expectations.
What bothers most Stansbury supporters, including me, is that the expectations for our basketball team are almost impossible to meet for some of our fans. It feels like some folks want to go undefeated and win every game by 20 or they aren't happy. Last night was a sucky game and we played like **** and it cost us. The key with basketball is - how do you respond? Our teams always bounce back, that's why Rick has won way over 60% of the games he coaches. I expect we will play well on Saturday and have a great chance to win against a very good Ole Miss team. But guess what? If we lose, the world won't end. The very best elite teams every year lose 3-4 or more games, sometimes to teams they shouldn't lose to.
What bothers most Stansbury supporters, including me, is that the expectations for our basketball team are almost impossible to meet for some of our fans. It feels like some folks want to go undefeated and win every game by 20 or they aren't happy. Last night was a sucky game and we played like **** and it cost us. The key with basketball is - how do you respond? Our teams always bounce back, that's why Rick has won way over 60% of the games he coaches. I expect we will play well on Saturday and have a great chance to win against a very good Ole Miss team. But guess what? If we lose, the world won't end. The very best elite teams every year lose 3-4 or more games, sometimes to teams they shouldn't lose to.
We were 10-6 and had a very good team and we won the division. I'm fairly certain the SEC had 4 teams in the Sweet 16 and 2 in the Final 4. IF the 2010 team gets hot and goes to the Final 4 no one will care if we lost to WKU, BUT as of right now it's a big deal.
is that Williams is a coach- Little Wooden is a recruiter
Williams took over a program that had lost to Delta State the year before he got the job. Not Rider, not Richmond, not San Diego- Division II Delta State in Cleveland. You never looked at Williams teams and thought- "they just arent well coached"...you could see that they just didnt have the talent. Williams had years when both starting guards were 5'9 (OWatt and Chucky), or both post players were 6'7 (Walker and Stevens- did I mention I hate Erik Stevens?). But even through that, we looked well-coached. We had a plan. We played hard. We just didnt have the talent alot of years
Stansbury took over a program 2 years removed from a Final Four. Say what you want, it was still fresh and people knew it. Stansbury teams play defense and rebound pretty well, but thats about it. Offensively they look lost. I dont think we have changed in bounds plays in 12 years. We play hard in spurts. Some players dont respect the coach and do their own thing- (that NEVER happened under Williams)
Its just about what do you want out of our program? Most coaches can come in here and recruit as well as Stansbury if they use the same methods he does. The question then would come down to coaching ability and handling your players. I simply think we can do better than what we have.
Williams took over a program that had lost to Delta State the year before he got the job. Not Rider, not Richmond, not San Diego- Division II Delta State in Cleveland. You never looked at Williams teams and thought- "they just arent well coached"...you could see that they just didnt have the talent. Williams had years when both starting guards were 5'9 (OWatt and Chucky), or both post players were 6'7 (Walker and Stevens- did I mention I hate Erik Stevens?). But even through that, we looked well-coached. We had a plan. We played hard. We just didnt have the talent alot of years
Stansbury took over a program 2 years removed from a Final Four. Say what you want, it was still fresh and people knew it. Stansbury teams play defense and rebound pretty well, but thats about it. Offensively they look lost. I dont think we have changed in bounds plays in 12 years. We play hard in spurts. Some players dont respect the coach and do their own thing- (that NEVER happened under Williams)
Its just about what do you want out of our program? Most coaches can come in here and recruit as well as Stansbury if they use the same methods he does. The question then would come down to coaching ability and handling your players. I simply think we can do better than what we have.
You could not be more full of excrement. There were plenty of games that Williams lost to crappy teams. You just choose not to remember it. Anyone remember the year we won the SEC and then lost to a craptastic UT team in the SEC tournament then followed it up with a first round NCAA loss to Eastern Michigan? Take out 2 years during Williams' tenure and you would wonder why in the hell we kept him as long as we did.
Yeah, that was the year we had absolutely no depth and Todd Merritt was suspended the night before the E. Michigan game for failing his drug testHanmudog said:
aGAIN- there were bad losses...but you never looked at Williams teams and said they werent coached
The only part I disagree with is the part about the 96 team setting expectations for current teams. Maybe for some people, but not for me. Sure I'd like to get back to the Final Four, but that was lightning in a bottle type stuff that isn't going to happen to Mississippi State more than every 20 or 30 or 100 years or more. I don't think that winning two games in the NCAAs is unreasonable though, and there have been several times in Rick's tenure we had a good enough team to do that. But not every year. Each team has a different ceiling, and each fan has a different idea of what that ceiling is.
This year is playing out differently than I and probably most thought. I sheepishly thought we would have Renardo by now. I didn't foresee us not using our bench, so maybe Renardo would not have mattered. I didn't see the Bailey, Smith and Beckham injuries, but again, the might not have mattered. Still, I thought we would be a legitimate top 20 team and maybe better. Hasn't worked out that way yet, but we're just now at the halfway mark, so we have time to reach a lot of goals.
This year is playing out differently than I and probably most thought. I sheepishly thought we would have Renardo by now. I didn't foresee us not using our bench, so maybe Renardo would not have mattered. I didn't see the Bailey, Smith and Beckham injuries, but again, the might not have mattered. Still, I thought we would be a legitimate top 20 team and maybe better. Hasn't worked out that way yet, but we're just now at the halfway mark, so we have time to reach a lot of goals.
And I really don't give too much of a **** whether either one's bad losses were due to bad coaching or bad recruiting (although I can promise you I saw plenty of Richard Williams games where the team looked poorly coached). They're still bad losses.
Uhhhh......yes I did.Coach34 said:
Without even batting an eye I can give you two very specific examples.
1989 - playing Florida in the Hump. They had Joe and Pat Lawrence, brothers (twins?) who could shoot it like crazy. We were young but talented and had fought like heck to be in the game. Late in the game RW goes zone. ZONE. Guess what happened. The Lawrences threed us to death and we lost.
1992 - playing Austin Peay up there. A couple of nights earlier in an Indiana - Michigan game Knight sat on the bench while the FAb Five went on an extended run. Vitale and others were screaming for the TO. Knight just sat there. Indiana chipped away after that and eventually won the game. Two nights later at Austin Peay, RW tried the same thing. Only we never caught up and lost to Austin Freaking Peay because dubmass RW wanted to be like Knight and not call time out. It was one of the most pathetic things I have ever listened to on the radio. His ego cost us any chance to win that game.
Don't get me started on the dumb things that RW did. He owned LSU for a long time, won the SEC for the first time in forever, went to a SS and a FF, and he had some strengths as others have noted, but he was far from a great coach.
But, I do think the Final Four skewed some people's expectations of what this program can consistently reach. Maybe not yours, but I've seen it on this board and heard it from others.
Those calling to fire Rick Stansbury are just stupid and know absolutely nothing about sports. Period. We should have high expectations for basketball - but Rick himself is the reason we have those expectations, and a lot of people don't seem to grasp that. We've had one bad loss - Rider. We shouldn't have lost to WKU or Richmond, but neither of those teams are what I would consider bad losses. Disappointing, sure, but not bad losses. Both of those teams have shown they are capable of beating near about anyone this year. Bottom line, we're 12-3 and we have people wanting to fire the coach. It's amazing to me. I'm just chalking it up to people not old enough to really understand how horrible our basketball program has been historically outside of the 1958-1964ish stretch, until Williams and Stansbury came. To me, it's almost like winning the West in football, and then our fans suddenly expecting it to happen every year.
Those calling to fire Rick Stansbury are just stupid and know absolutely nothing about sports. Period. We should have high expectations for basketball - but Rick himself is the reason we have those expectations, and a lot of people don't seem to grasp that. We've had one bad loss - Rider. We shouldn't have lost to WKU or Richmond, but neither of those teams are what I would consider bad losses. Disappointing, sure, but not bad losses. Both of those teams have shown they are capable of beating near about anyone this year. Bottom line, we're 12-3 and we have people wanting to fire the coach. It's amazing to me. I'm just chalking it up to people not old enough to really understand how horrible our basketball program has been historically outside of the 1958-1964ish stretch, until Williams and Stansbury came. To me, it's almost like winning the West in football, and then our fans suddenly expecting it to happen every year.
Why hasn't he been able to land another college head coaching position? Your arguments are absurd but one thing we can count on. You'll be here bitching whether it be a loss or a win. I posted this last nite, and I'll post it again, can the board take up a collection and get you to a shrink? You truly must be one miserable person and just because you have recruited a few baffoons to agree with you, that doesn't mean you are correct. Go get Brady, or Gottfried, or Pelphrey and then see how much success we have. Thank God you are not our AD.
proves you are either lying or stupid.
Did Dontae Jones respect Richard Williams? Did he never do his own thing? Why the 17 did he sit his *** on the bench so much early in that season? Because he didn't understand the team concept and what Williams' expectations were regarding defense. Once he did, Dontae played.
Williams parlayed the Final Four into jack ****. We had a horrible team after we lost everyone. You could maybe forgive him for thinking we'd have Bullard back, but any idiot knew that Damp and Jones were done. Stansbury took over a team that was about as far removed from that Final Four as you could be. He had, what? Bart Hyche and Tyrone Washington (he of the 1" vertical leap?).
Did Dontae Jones respect Richard Williams? Did he never do his own thing? Why the 17 did he sit his *** on the bench so much early in that season? Because he didn't understand the team concept and what Williams' expectations were regarding defense. Once he did, Dontae played.
Williams parlayed the Final Four into jack ****. We had a horrible team after we lost everyone. You could maybe forgive him for thinking we'd have Bullard back, but any idiot knew that Damp and Jones were done. Stansbury took over a team that was about as far removed from that Final Four as you could be. He had, what? Bart Hyche and Tyrone Washington (he of the 1" vertical leap?).
"Did Dontae Jones respect Richard Williams? Did he never do his own thing? Why the 17 did he sit his *** on the bench so much early in that season? Because he didn't understand the team concept and what Williams' expectations were regarding defense. Once he did, Dontae played"
Sounds like Dontae respected Williams to me
Does Stansbury have Augustus' attention?
How many times has Stewart been benched for taking bad shots? Jamont Gordon?
How bout Johnson trying to get Stansbury to put Augustus in the game last year, offering to give up his spot?
How bout Bowers telling the newspaper after making the winning shot against Bammer in T-Town that Stansbury drew up a play, but he wanted to do something different- so he did?
You are truly amazing Meo- but you do love your man. I give you credit
Sounds like Dontae respected Williams to me
Does Stansbury have Augustus' attention?
How many times has Stewart been benched for taking bad shots? Jamont Gordon?
How bout Johnson trying to get Stansbury to put Augustus in the game last year, offering to give up his spot?
How bout Bowers telling the newspaper after making the winning shot against Bammer in T-Town that Stansbury drew up a play, but he wanted to do something different- so he did?
You are truly amazing Meo- but you do love your man. I give you credit
Um, because he's not looking for another job? He and his wife love Starkville and he believes he can build a consistantly winning basketball program.Coach34 said:
So far he's done exactly that.
If you are good at your job in the coaching world, people come looking for you, not the other way around. Rick may be perfectly happy in Starkville and have no intent on leaving (I can respect that), but if he were a hot commodity, we sure as hell would know about it. At the very least, Rick would leverage these job offers into getting paid his fair value. Has this ever happened (I'm seriously asking, not making a factual statement)?
Also, check how many times Richard was one and done in the SEC tourney. And you folks have no idea how many jobs Stansbury has been offered. I know for a fact he was, but he told them he had no interest. How many has Richard been offered, or Gottfried, or any of the other flash in the pan coaches that Coach 34 wanted.
Stans has not been offered any good jobs. We would hear about it on the SPS, that's a fact.Dawgbreeze said:
whether you like it or not!
What has Stan's done? Rick has dominated a pretty weak SEC Western division since coming on.
Can you imagine if Stan's had to go up against the likes of Dale Brown, Wimp Sanderson, Sonny Smith, and Nolan(when they were in their PRIME)? Richard started out against those guys with nothing in the way of talent? All of you that want to dog out Williams have to remember that he inherited a program where he's was asked to win 1 SEC game "once in a while". That's it! He had nothing for the first 4 years in the way of talent but he started to build by pursuing in-state players, who had predominately, gone out of state i.e. Alabama's connection with Wimp. He shut off that valve and started something special. After the final 4, he was completely spent mentally and couldn't pull it back together. He even admits this. Yes, there are lots of rumors about his personal life, but I'm not going there. He also put together a staff that was turned out to be pretty decent and some moved on to bigger things-John Brady(Samford, LSU), Duane Reboul(Birmingham Southern), Jimmy Tillette(Samford), and Stansbury.
Who's left Stan's team for greener pastures? The guy flat out can't coach. I watched every game that Williams coached, and yes, there were times that he infuriated me. But he did discipline his players for bad decisions! Stansbury does not. Just look at Jamont and that will tell you enough about his ability.
What has Stan's done? Rick has dominated a pretty weak SEC Western division since coming on.
Can you imagine if Stan's had to go up against the likes of Dale Brown, Wimp Sanderson, Sonny Smith, and Nolan(when they were in their PRIME)? Richard started out against those guys with nothing in the way of talent? All of you that want to dog out Williams have to remember that he inherited a program where he's was asked to win 1 SEC game "once in a while". That's it! He had nothing for the first 4 years in the way of talent but he started to build by pursuing in-state players, who had predominately, gone out of state i.e. Alabama's connection with Wimp. He shut off that valve and started something special. After the final 4, he was completely spent mentally and couldn't pull it back together. He even admits this. Yes, there are lots of rumors about his personal life, but I'm not going there. He also put together a staff that was turned out to be pretty decent and some moved on to bigger things-John Brady(Samford, LSU), Duane Reboul(Birmingham Southern), Jimmy Tillette(Samford), and Stansbury.
Who's left Stan's team for greener pastures? The guy flat out can't coach. I watched every game that Williams coached, and yes, there were times that he infuriated me. But he did discipline his players for bad decisions! Stansbury does not. Just look at Jamont and that will tell you enough about his ability.
Stans has been contacted at least twice (that I know of) by major conference schools (nobody said Kentucky, you dumb sack of ****) and has declined interest, through his agent. Difference between Stansbury and some of the coaching whores out there is that he didn't leak other school's interests in him to the media to try to squeeze more money out of MSU. (aka Houston Nutt).
Or your ignorant *** doesn't know the difference... So what two teams came looking for Bury?</p>
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