Round 1 GoBigBlue712 Vs. quest4#9

[DraftCat]

Welcome to the 1st All-Time MLB Draft in Paddock's.

Voters the goal was to draft a MLB roster of legends that will compete in a hypothetical
7 game World Series. Please vote on who you believe would win out of the two teams.

@quest4#9 ...............................Pitching Rotation:

1. Jackie Robinson 2b........SP - Nolan Ryan
2. Mike Trout rf....................SP - Doc Gooden
3. Ken Griffey jr cf...............SP - Ron Guidry
4. Mark McGwire 1b...........SP - Jake Arrieta
5. Sammy Sosa lf...............CL - Eric Gagne
6. Edgar Martinez 3b
7. Buster Posey c
8. Peewee Reese ss

Bench
OF Billy Hamilton (LH) - (original, not the reds player)
IF Edgar Renteria- WS MVP
C JT Realmuto- best catcher in MLB


@GoBigBlue712 ....................................................Pitching Rotation:

Starters vs RHP.................Starters vs. LHP
1. LF-Lou Brock..................1. Lou Brock......................SP-Cy Young
2. SS-Derek Jeter................2. Derek Jeter....................SP-Ed Walsh
3. RF-Tony Gwynn..............3. Tony Qwynn.... SP/RP - Madison Bumgarner
4. 1B-Hank Aaron...............4. Hank Aaron....................SP-Harry Breechen
5. 3B-Harmon Killebrew.....5. Harmon Killebrew...........RP/CP-Hoyt Wilhelm
6. CF-Jim Edmonds...........6. Thurman Munson
7. C-Thurman Munson.......7. Jim Edmonds
8. 2B-Dustin Pedroia..........8. Javier Báez

Bench
1B-Johnny Mize................ Ralph Kiner
OF/1B-Ralph Kiner............ Johnny Mize
2B/SS/3B-Javier Baez...... Dustin Pedtroia

 

[GoBigBlue712]

My team has a great combination of the five tools for position players. In terms of speed, Lou Brock is top five all time. I. His prime year, he stole 118 bases. That’s insane. He’s the kind of player that could turn a single into a double or a double into a triple.
For contact, batting average, and finding ways to get on base, my team is fantastic. Tony Gwynn is maybe the best pure hitter ever. In Dustin Pedroia’s prime, he put up seasons of 200+ hits and a .300 batting average. Javier Baez, Ralph Kiner, and several other guys in my team were really good at finding ways to get on base and drove in a ton of runners. Hank Aaron and Johnny Mize, primarily known for their power, were also good at lacing singles and put up high batting numbers in their primes.
Perhaps the biggest strength of my team is its power. Hank Aaron is maybe the greatest non-steroid using power bar ever. Johnny Mize and Ralph Kiner off my bench have ridiculous pop. Harmon Killebrew has six 40 homer-plus seasons. Jim Edmonds and Derek Jeter were no strangers to hitting bombs. On occasion, even a contact guy like Gwynn or a speed guy like Brock could put one over the wall.
My team is solid defensively. Most of you have probably seen Jim Edmonds’s best catch, but that was no fluke. He made crazy play after crazy play en route to eight Gold Gloves. Javier Baez is Gold Glove-caliber at three different positions. None of my outfielders have any huge issues with defense. Pedroia and especially Jeter May have had their struggles fielding on routine plays, but they both made the big plays when it really counted and won multiple Gold Gloves. Thurman Munson also won three straight Gold Gloves.
The fifth and final skill of the five tools is arm strength and accuracy. My team is gifted in that department as well. Hank Aaron had a great arm. Baez, Pedroia, and Killebrew all showed off their arms on balls deep into the hole. Edmonds, Gwynn, Kiner, and Brock all had some very nice throws. Thurman Munson had a cannon behind the plate.
My team’s hitters are no stranger to the pressure of the postseason. Thurman Munson hit a strong .357 in the playoffs. Jeter hit .321 in 156 World Series at-bats and is a six-time champion. Hank Aaron hit a sparkling .364/.417/.600 in the World Series. Johnny Mize won five championships. Pedroia was a part of three title-winning squads.

 

[GoBigBlue712]

On the other end of the baseball spectrum, my pitchers are also phenomenal. My ace, Cy Young, has the most prestigious pitching award in the sport named after him. He had four seasons of under 1 WHIP. Ed Walsh, my number two starter, had five seasons under 1 WHIP (including two seasons under 0.9) and is second all-time in career WHIP. Madison Bumgarner and Harry Breechen were also pretty good at keeping runners off-base. All of my starters rarely gave up more than three walks per game in their primes.
My starting pitchers clearly limit traffic on the base paths, but when they do give up hits, they don’t usually leave the ballpark. Young had only 2 seasons out off 22 where he gave up more than 0.3 HR/9. Ed Walsh never gave up more than 0.1 HR/9 in a season of his career. MadBum and Breechen both averaged much less than 1 home run given up per game in their primes.
In regards to strikeouts, my team may not seem like it K’s many guys, but in reality, it definitely does. Bumgarner has six seasons in a row above 190+ strikeouts, three of which were above 200 K’s, and one with an incredible 251 strikeouts. Strikeouts were not prevalent in the eras of Young and Walsh, but they still absolutely dominated in that category. Young topped 150 K’s seven times, with 3 seasons of a SO/W ratio of over 5. Walsh topped 200 K’s five times and 250 K’s four times.
Similar to my hitters, my pitchers shined in the postseason. Madison Bumgarner is his prime is probably the greatest playoff pitcher of all time. In 2014 he posted the third-lowest playoff ERA (1.03) and 45 strikeouts (a record I believe). He owns a 0.25 World Series ERA and is a three time champion. Harry Breechen was almost as dominant, putting up a 0.83 World Series ERA in 32.2 innings (A record until 1976). He was also a three-time champion. Ed Walsh pitches just 15 WS innings, but he gave up just one run. His team won that championship. Cy Young threw 34 World Series innings and owns a great 1.85 ERA in those games. He also won a championship.

 

[quest4#9]

Much respect for my opponent.

I feel my lineup is just lethal. Trout is unquestionably the best player of his generation with 3 MVPs before the age of 28. He should realistically end up in the conversation for GOAT along with Griffey if he keeps on this pace. If you’re a pitcher, you’re just dreading facing this lineup. One mistake is a homerun. Defensively we are elite at the most important positions with Jackie, Reese, Posey, and Griffey Jr.

As far as my pitching goes, had Nolan Ryan (1.69 ERA) played on better teams it’s widely believed he would have been in the conversation for greatest pitcher ever. He’s the all time MLB strikeout leader and Randy Johnson who is 2nd is pretty far behind.

The other pitchers may be unfamiliar to some, but we are judging them in their prime season, not career. There are few if any pitchers who were better in their prime than Gooden (24-4) (1.53 ERA) Guidry (25-3) (1.74 ERA) Arrieta (22-6) (1.77 ERA) and Gagne (55/55 saves) (1.2 ERA). All won the Cy Young and combined for a record of 71-13 with an average ERA of around 1.5. Not even the great Mariano Rivera ever was truly game over like Gagne was in his 55/55 save season.
Stats listed for prime season.

 

[GoBigBlue712]

Lou Brock holds a minimum 20 games played World Series record .391 batting average. Combine that with his speed and base running, and you figure he is going to be in scoring position a good chunk of the time, with Derek Jeter (.321 WS average) and Tony Gwynn (.371 WS average) coming up after. That likely means trouble on the bases, with the power part of my lineup coming up. Hank Aaron, Harmon Killebrew, and Jim Edmonds were all big threats with the bat in their hands. They were then followed by Thurman Munson, who hit .357 in the postseason. There is a good chance my team would have a several run lead right out of the gates.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I'm sorry, I just cant reward juicers and GBB712 has the better pitching staff.

 

[quest4#9]

I do have two juicers, both of whom have great power numbers already before any alleged juicing. So take them even before then and they were all time power hitters. We are judging their production in their primes, not making a HOF case for them. If that was the logic, Barry Bonds wouldn’t have gone #2 in the draft.

 

[quest4#9]

I do have two juicers, both of whom have great power numbers already before any alleged juicing. So take them even before then and they were all time power hitters. We are judging their production in their primes, not making a HOF case for them. If that was the logic, Barry Bonds wouldn’t have gone #2 in the draft.

I disagree on your pitching assessment as well. Cy Young has more losses than anyone in MLB history, and my pitchers were facing much better modern day hitters than GBB’s old timers. Mine also had better numbers in their primes.

 

[GoBigBlue712]

I disagree on your pitching assessment as well. Cy Young has more losses than anyone in MLB history, and my pitchers were facing much better modern day hitters than GBB’s old timers. Mine also had better numbers in their primes.

I, of course, disagree with you. Cy Young has so many loses because he pitched so much. He also has more wins than anybody as well. I believe that the hitters back then were just as good as today, but both sides are much more high-powered now. Here are some hitters that Walsh and Young had to face: Nap Lajoie, Honus Wagner, Sam Crawford, Fred Clarke, etc. Your claim that my guys put up worse numbers in their primes is crazy. Young and Walsh had season after season of very low ERA and WHIP. MadBum and Breechen, who are on my team mostly because of postseason success, were also great in their primes.

 

[quest4#9]

Fair. At minimum my pitchers aren’t giving up several run leads right off the bat though just bc those guys had good success in the World Series. I doubt they faced Nolan Ryan and his 108 mph fastball for 3 games.

I’m a modern day guy. I look at babe ruth and see a pudgeball guy who I can’t imagine putting up the numbers he did back then today. I’m not saying it should be the only argument, but my common sense tells me that if guys are clearly better athletes and players in today’s NBA and NFL than they were 100 years ago, then it’s probably true for MLB. Yes, Cy Young’s losses probably shouldn’t be used against him when he is also winningest. To be fair I barely favored Nolan over him when drafting, but had you taken Ryan I would have taken Cy young next myself and used your argument on his longevity lol. Still for Cy, a big reason the award is named after him is for his longevity and career accomplishments more than being a dominant force in his prime.

 

[quest4#9]

I think it’s tough for any of us including voters to understand the old timers, because I don’t think any of us saw how big, fast, and strong players were back then. I am sure the game has changed quite a bit.

 

[BigBlueEric]

BTTT

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I disagree on your pitching assessment as well. Cy Young has more losses than anyone in MLB history, and my pitchers were facing much better modern day hitters than GBB’s old timers. Mine also had better numbers in their primes.

You can't directly compare players from different eras. You have to give them credit for their numbers against players from any era otherwise you can just shrug your shoulders and always discount early baseball legends. I'm afraid that's whats going on in this vote. Speaking of primes, Doc had 1 very good year but some part of their "prime" has to have some longevity. Neither Guidry nor Doc nor Arrieta will ever sniff the HOF, Arrieta is pretty average. I'm not trying to disrespect your team but I can't figure out for the life of me how you're ahead in this voting.

 

[quest4#9]

Going by the rules we are taking them in their prime. A full season to me can be a prime, as that’s who they were when they peaked. Gooden for one ran into drug issues, but he was undoubtedly the best 20 year old pitcher ever. 24-4 with 1.7 ERA and cy young at 20 is amazing. Could he have been one of the best ever if he stayed away from drugs? We still have to judge him on that prime. Guidry’s 1978 season was just absurd... 25-3... I’m sure they weren’t HOF material over their career, but this is about production in prime.

It’s not like I just have a bunch of modern day players and that’s what voters are seeing. I have really good players who are all time players across the board. I can say I’m definitely scared it could become a home run derby if I’m the pitcher haha. Trout, Griffey, McGwire, Sosa, Martinez doesn’t sound like much fun to face 4 times a game IMO.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Going by the rules we are taking them in their prime. A full season to me can be a prime, as that’s who they were when they peaked. Gooden for one ran into drug issues, but he was undoubtedly the best 20 year old pitcher ever. 24-4 with 1.7 ERA and cy young at 20 is amazing. Could he have been one of the best ever if he stayed away from drugs? We still have to judge him on that prime. Guidry’s 1978 season was just absurd... 25-3... I’m sure they weren’t HOF material over their career, but this is about production in prime.

It’s not like I just have a bunch of modern day players and that’s what voters are seeing. I have really good players who are all time players across the board. I can say I’m definitely scared it could become a home run derby if I’m the pitcher haha. Trout, Griffey, McGwire, Sosa, Martinez doesn’t sound like much fun to face 4 times a game IMO.

You have some excellent players I just have my issues. Others obviously don't.

 

[quest4#9]

That is fair. Well it’s not over and fwiw I’m 0-2 on b-ball related drafts on here so I’m not counting a w until it’s over