Round 1 JHannibalSmith vs. jrpross

[DraftCat]

Welcome to the 1st All-Time MLB Draft in Paddock's.

Voters the goal was to draft a MLB roster of legends that will compete in a hypothetical
7 game World Series. Please vote on who you believe would win out of the two teams.

@JHannibalSmith

Lineup vs LHP............................................Lineup vs. RHP
1. 2B Craig Biggio {RH} (C, CF, LF)...........1. 2B Frankie Frisch {SH} (3B, SS)
2. CF Al Simmons {RH} (LF)......................2. RF Paul Waner {LH} (1B)
3. LF Hank Greenberg {RH} (1B)...............3. CF Al Simmons {RH} (LF)
4. 1B Lou Gehrig {LH}...............................4. 1B Lou Gehrig {LH}
5. 3B Miguel Cabrera {RH} (1B, LF, RF)....5. LF Hank Greenberg {RH} (1B)
6. RF Albert Belle {RH} (LF).......................6. 3B Miguel Cabrera {RH} (1B, LF, RF)
7. SS Manny Machado {RH} (3B)..............7. C Mickey Cochrane {LH}
8. C Mickey Cochrane {LH}.......................8. SS Manny Machado {RH} (3B)

Bench:
2B Frankie Frisch {SH} 3B, SS...............2B Craig Biggio {RH} (C, CF, LF)
SS Joe Cronin {RH} 3B..........................SS Joe Cronin {RH} (3B)
RF Paul Waner {LH} 1B..........................RF Albert Belle {RH} (LF)

Pitching Rotation:
SP Pedro Martinez {RHP}
SP Carl Hubbell {LHP}
SP Max Scherzer {RHP}
SP Lefty Gomez {LHP}
RP Craig Kimbrel {RHP}

@jrpross ..................................Pitching Rotation:


1. Paul Molitor 2B (rh).............SP: Grover Cleveland Alexander
2. Babe Ruth RF (lh)...............SP: Clayton Kershaw
3. Ernie Banks SS (rh)............SP: Mordecai “three finger) Brown
4. David Ortiz 1B (lh)..............SP: Jim Bunning
5. Juan Gonzalez (rh).............Closer: Dennis Eckersley
6. Kirby Puckett CF (rh)
7. Scott Rolen 3B (rh)
8. Yadier Molina C (rh)

UTL: Bobby Bonds, Steve Garvey, Chuck Knoblauch (all rh)

 

[jrpross_rivals]

I’ll copy & paste my breakdown from the other thread with some other thoughts so people don’t have to go search for it.

At the risk of sounding like coach Cal, I like my team. I have a guy at the top who led the league in hits numerous times and is a great base runner. I’ve got sluggers out the wazoo in the 2-5 spots; 2 righties, 2 lefties, including the best player of all time, and Puckett at 6 hit .318 for his lifetime and had some power too. My 7 & 8 guys were chosen mainly for their multiple gold-gloves, but are not at all slouches at the plate. Rolen’s best year he hit .314, 34, and 124. Molina’s was .315, 22, and 76.

My utility guys have great speed and play great defense. Bonds could hit 35 homers and Knoblauch could steal 60 bases. They’ll be perfect to pinch run, pinch hit, and sub in for defense when my team (inevitably ) gets a lead later in the game. And with Garvey and Molitor playing multiple positions, I have great flexibility. If I put in Garvey, Knoblauch, Banks, & Rolen, I have a full gold-glove winning infield.

As for pitching, my starters have CAREER era’s of 2.56, 2.44, 2.03, and 3.27.
We forget about those old guys, but Alexander and Brown dominated like you wouldn’t believe at the time. Alexander won 4 pitching triple crowns including 3 in a row from 1915-17. From 1915-20 his ERA was never above 1.91. And while Brown was never a strikeout pitcher, his 1.04 ERA in 1904 was the 3rd lowest ever for a starter in a season he pitched 9 shutouts. And my closer Eckersley, was the last reliever to win the MVP, which may not have even been his best year. 2 years earlier, he had a 0.61 ERA and 48 saves.

All in all, with Alexander, Kershaw, Brown, Bunning and the Eck, I think I have a case for best pitching staff out there, and the rest of my lineup notwithstanding, I’ve got the Great Bambino.

Go ahead. Do the right thing with your vote...

 

[JHannibalSmith]

I think this team has a nice mix of old & modern players & righties & lefties. Every position player I have can play at least 2 positions with the exceptions of Cochrane (C) & Gehrig (1B). So, I still have at least one backup at every position in spite of having only 3 bench players. The lineup is littered with HOFers, multiple MVP & triple crown winners & the middle of the lineup is deadly. I can’t imagine a better 3-4 duo than Greenberg & Gehrig. Greenberg is 6th all time in both slugging & OPS & Gehrig is 3rd all time in both. Al Simmons put up some astronomical numbers with a .334 lifetime BA & averaging 22 HR & 134 RBI/162 game season. He could handle the bat very well, having a great K/AB ratio. He was also pretty fast & hit for power & a high average. He is an ideal 2 hitter with some pop. If he &/or Biggio can get on base I like my chances to score with Greenberg, Gehrig, Cabrera & Belle looming. All of my position players are good hitters & most are serious power hitters as well. Lol, I don’t have a lot of time for a thorough review at the moment so I’ll have to finish this quickly & come back to post some stats. I really think the lineup has a really nice flow & each spot is filled with someone who is ideal for the role. I also think this team’s versatility is one of its best qualities bc so many guys can play so many positions that I can mix & match & adapt to most any pitcher. I also have 3 player/managers on the roster so this team SHOULDN’T beat themselves.

I love my pitching rotation, with 2 of the best RHP & 2 of the best LHP ever alternating starts I can match up well with RH or LH dominant lineups. Pedro & Scherzer have each won 3 Cy Young Awards & Hubbell won 3 Pitcher Of The Year Awards which was the precursor to the Cy Young. Lefty Gomez won 2. They all won at least 1 triple crown & Hubbell won 2 MVPs. He famously struck out Ruth, Gehrig, Fox, Simmons & Cronin consecutively in the 1934 all star game. I’d probably start in order, Pedro, Hubbell & Scherzer with Gomez in long relief & Kimbrel to close. Kimbrel has been very dominant in his career averaging 42 saves/162 game season with a career 2.08 ERA & minuscule career WHIP of 0.945 with 15 K & 4 BB/9 IP. There really isn’t a weakness anywhere on this team & it would take a very special series to beat them, IMO. The bad part is that all of these teams have the capability of playing a perfect series & winning so it would really all come down to individual matchups IMO. I really wish we could find a simulator. Lol

 

[Drcats2025]

This one was HARD. Two very good teams.

 

[BigBlueEric]

BTTT

 

[jrpross_rivals]

Hannibal does have a killer roster. He may have a marginal advantage at a few positions and I have a few others, but I feel like my pitching staff really tips the scales in my favor. I’ve seen Brown, Kershaw, and Alexander listed as top 15 all time pitchers. Pedro is really the only guy he has of that caliber.

And I still say that nobody could stop the Babe.

 

[JHannibalSmith]

Hannibal does have a killer roster. He may have a marginal advantage at a few positions and I have a few others, but I feel like my pitching staff really tips the scales in my favor. I’ve seen Brown, Kershaw, and Alexander listed as top 15 all time pitchers. Pedro is really the only guy he has of that caliber.

And I still say that nobody could stop the Babe.

I have nothing but respect for your team but I don’t get your logic on the pitching. 3 of my starters have won 3 Cy Young Awards or the equivalent & Gomez won 2. They all won pitching triple crowns & 2 are LHP & 2 are RHP so I can match up with any lineup. Scherzer has done just as much as Kershaw & Hubbell was the best LHP til Koufax came along. I don’t think my staff takes a back seat to any team outside of maybe @UKNorse. Not saying it’s better than the rest, just that it can compete.

Offensively you have a ton of power but they strike out A LOT & have no speed on the basepaths. It would be a station to station or HR kind of scoring team. I think my offense is more well rounded with guys who hit for average AND power & their skills suit their place in the order. But, the difference IMO is your team would struggle defensively. Ortiz is a liability at 1B. Molitor was made a DH for a reason too & Babe & Juan Gonzalez aren’t taking any gap shots away. Anything not hit directly at them would be an adventure. Don’t take that as me ripping your team. I have to find a weakness somewhere, lol. I love your team honestly & it sucks we have to play in the 1st rd. I also think you’re a little crazy for batting Babe 2nd, lol. He strikes out too much for the 2 hole & he needs to be 3rd or 4th to knock in the good pure hitters at 1 & 2. Plus, Babe will be hitting with nobody on base a lot of times so idc to give up a solo HR to him. I’m thrilled I don’t have to worry about facing him with men on base most times. Or worst case, one man on. That formula y’all were using only accounted for OPS & isn’t accurate for building a lineup. But, I have no problem if I lose to your team. It’s good enough to beat mine & it’s not like I’m getting hosed if you win. This should’ve been a final 4 series though, lol.

 

[jrpross_rivals]

I have nothing but respect for your team but I don’t get your logic on the pitching. 3 of my starters have won 3 Cy Young Awards or the equivalent & Gomez won 2. They all won pitching triple crowns & 2 are LHP & 2 are RHP so I can match up with any lineup. Scherzer has done just as much as Kershaw & Hubbell was the best LHP til Koufax came along. I don’t think my staff takes a back seat to any team outside of maybe @UKNorse. Not saying it’s better than the rest, just that it can compete.

Offensively you have a ton of power but they strike out A LOT & have no speed on the basepaths. It would be a station to station or HR kind of scoring team. I think my offense is more well rounded with guys who hit for average AND power & their skills suit their place in the order. But, the difference IMO is your team would struggle defensively. Ortiz is a liability at 1B. Molitor was made a DH for a reason too & Babe & Juan Gonzalez aren’t taking any gap shots away. Anything not hit directly at them would be an adventure. Don’t take that as me ripping your team. I have to find a weakness somewhere, lol. I love your team honestly & it sucks we have to play in the 1st rd. I also think you’re a little crazy for batting Babe 2nd, lol. He strikes out too much for the 2 hole & he needs to be 3rd or 4th to knock in the good pure hitters at 1 & 2. Plus, Babe will be hitting with nobody on base a lot of times so idc to give up a solo HR to him. I’m thrilled I don’t have to worry about facing him with men on base most times. Or worst case, one man on. That formula y’all were using only accounted for OPS & isn’t accurate for building a lineup. But, I have no problem if I lose to your team. It’s good enough to beat mine & it’s not like I’m getting hosed if you win. This should’ve been a final 4 series though, lol.

It’s funny, I originally had Molitor, Puckett, Ruth at the 1-3, which is a more traditional approach, but using a couple different sites, it said that the above lineup would make the most runs. And to a point I do understand. It could end up giving the Bambino an extra at-bat or at least one of the sluggers behind him.

To respond to your assertions of poor defense, which I don’t disagree with, that’s exactly why I picked my backups. Once my sluggers put up 10-12 runs or so () in comes Bonds in left and Garvey/Knoblauch at 1st/2nd, all 3 of which won gold gloves at their positions to hold the lead. Once that happens, by the way, with a simple double switch, I could then have say, Bonds and Knoblauch at the 9/1 spots before Ruth comes up. 2 guys with great speed who were fantastic at getting on base in their primes.

And don’t get me wrong, your pitching staff is still tremendous. But looking at it from top to bottom, I just feel like mine is a good step up. Looking at it from top to bottom.

Martinez: career 2.93 ERA, 2 years under 2.00, triple crown in 99
Alexander: career 2.56 ERA, 6 straight years under 2.00, 3 straight triple crowns in 15-17 and another in 20.

Hubbell: career 2.98 ERA, one year under 2.00, best WHIP was .0982
Kershaw: career 2.44 ERA, 3 years under 2.00, 6 seasons of lower WHIP than .982

Scherzer: career 3.20 ERA, best year 2.51
Brown: career 2.06 ERA, best year 1.04

Gomez: career 3.34 ERA, best year was 2.33
Bunning: career 3.27 era, best year was 2.29

Overall, I would actually give the edge to Gomez over Bunning, as he was more dominant in his era, despite the above stats. But otherwise, I think all my other guys get the nod.

Like you said, not to down your team at all. I picked my guys because I felt they were the best and you did too. It’s just a killer matchup that’s going to come down to people’s opinions.

 

[jrpross_rivals]

On a side note, with these competitions, i SWEAR every time I write up what I think is a very well thought out intelligent write up or response, I immediately lose a few votes [laughing]

 

[JHannibalSmith]

It’s funny, I originally had Molitor, Puckett, Ruth at the 1-3, which is a more traditional approach, but using a couple different sites, it said that the above lineup would make the most runs. And to a point I do understand. It could end up giving the Bambino an extra at-bat or at least one of the sluggers behind him.

To respond to your assertions of poor defense, which I don’t disagree with, that’s exactly why I picked my backups. Once my sluggers put up 10-12 runs or so () in comes Bonds in left and Garvey/Knoblauch at 1st/2nd, all 3 of which won gold gloves at their positions to hold the lead. Once that happens, by the way, with a simple double switch, I could then have say, Bonds and Knoblauch at the 9/1 spots before Ruth comes up. 2 guys with great speed who were fantastic at getting on base in their primes.

And don’t get me wrong, your pitching staff is still tremendous. But looking at it from top to bottom, I just feel like mine is a good step up. Looking at it from top to bottom.

Martinez: career 2.93 ERA, 2 years under 2.00, triple crown in 99
Alexander: career 2.56 ERA, 6 straight years under 2.00, 3 straight triple crowns in 15-17 and another in 20.

Hubbell: career 2.98 ERA, one year under 2.00, best WHIP was .0982
Kershaw: career 2.44 ERA, 3 years under 2.00, 6 seasons of lower WHIP than .982

Scherzer: career 3.20 ERA, best year 2.51
Brown: career 2.06 ERA, best year 1.04

Gomez: career 3.34 ERA, best year was 2.33
Bunning: career 3.27 era, best year was 2.29

Overall, I would actually give the edge to Gomez over Bunning, as he was more dominant in his era, despite the above stats. But otherwise, I think all my other guys get the nod.

Like you said, not to down your team at all. I picked my guys because I felt they were the best and you did too. It’s just a killer matchup that’s going to come down to people’s opinions.

There’s definitely a plus to getting more ABs for your best hitter. But, a guy like Babe is just too good to hit higher than 3 IMO. Reason being, I would walk him every chance I got with him in the 2 hole. Wouldn’t even blink to put him on & pitch to Banks. I don’t have to worry about him stealing a base or scoring on a gapper. Some games the pitching will dominate & we will have to manufacture runs. It can be tough without some contact hitters getting on base for the big sticks. That’s just my preference though & obviously it can’t be too bad of a thing getting Babe Ruth maximum PAs. I just think Puckett, Molitor & Ruth is the best 1-3 you could use. Could be the best in the whole thing. Puckett had pop but also hit for average, was always on base & wasn’t blazing fast but was a great base runner. I think Molitor is the quintessential 2 hole hitter. He was one of my favorite players as a kid honestly. I like the guys who can drive in 100 runs without hitting 30+ HRs. He hit for a high average & got A LOT of hits using every part of the field. He was a wizard with the lumber & never really declined over his 20 year career or whatever it was. He played a long time at an elite level.

 

[jrpross_rivals]

Bump to the top. Someone changed their vote.

Come on now people, you can’t let Babe Ruth loose in the first round!

 

[JamesIII]

@jross Your hitters 4 - 8 were going to have a lot of double plays, not much speed there.