Season Review - Good, Bad, Ugly

7th Cir. Cat

Redshirt
Jul 25, 2006
2,171
9
23
Let's start the post-mortem of the 2019-20 Cats.

Good - Boo can take over games, Kopp made a leap, Ryan Young's post moves, Spencer

Bad - In-game coaching, another 10 game losing streak,

Ugly - Overall record, holding on to leads, Radford/Merrimack

Overall, I would give this season a C-. On record alone it's an F, but they tried hard till the very end and they were a young team and Spencer was a great story
 
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NJCat

All-Conference
Mar 7, 2016
21,326
1,502
113
The fact that they never quit belongs in the Good category. Apart fom a couple of games they were competitive throughout.

But your overall grade seems generous. A second consecutive season battling for last in the B1G is at best a D-. Collins has now had 3 consecutive disappointing seasons, all for different reasons, but the arrow isn't pointing in the right directions results-wise. Young team won't be an excuse next year.
 

7th Cir. Cat

Redshirt
Jul 25, 2006
2,171
9
23
The fact that they never quit belongs in the Good category. Apart fom a couple of games they were competitive throughout.

But your overall grade seems generous. A second consecutive season battling for last in the B1G is at best a D-. Collins has now had 3 consecutive disappointing seasons, all for different reasons, but the arrow isn't pointing in the right directions results-wise. Young team won't be an excuse next year.

I hear you on the D. I gave them a C- because Nance seems to have improved the last month and Kopp has made a leap. So, the arrow "might" be pointing ever so slightly up. I also liked what I heard from Boo, Kopp and Nance in the post-game yesterday. They seem like they know they have to really"hit the gym" as Nance said numerous times in his interview.

And agreed that next year should be make or break for Collins, no more excuses
 

loyolacat

Freshman
Oct 21, 2006
2,699
50
48
I would say ,,,Collins has two years.....as most of the successful teams in the tournament have senior guards and if we had not gotten Spencer would have been a really weak area....as Boo as great potential but showed his inconsistency all year and now he is going to need a running mate for this group to go up the ladder.......They are a lot of the same guy
 

willycat

Junior
Jan 11, 2005
21,448
318
0
I would say ,,,Collins has two years.....as most of the successful teams in the tournament have senior guards and if we had not gotten Spencer would have been a really weak area....as Boo as great potential but showed his inconsistency all year and now he is going to need a running mate for this group to go up the ladder.......They are a lot of the same guy
Would think he would get 13 years, no?
 

Sec_112

Sophomore
Jun 17, 2001
6,599
195
63
There's one aspect I haven't been able to wrap my head around over these last few painful weeks.

There were quite a few individual surprises this year. Would anybody argue with the contribution of Young?

Maybe I'm the only one who didn't expect Kopp to emerge as strong as he did.

Buie showed a lot at many points as did Spencer. Jones and Nance had their moments.

Of course, each has their weaknesses. But how come the strengths almost never came together for an entire game - even at Nebraska? I thought the whole never came close to the sum of its parts.

I know there's not a ton of talent to work with, but I'm leaning toward the idea this shouldn't have been the ABSOLUTE disaster it turned out to be.
 

GatoLouco

Sophomore
Nov 13, 2019
5,636
116
63
There's one aspect I haven't been able to wrap my head around over these last few painful weeks.

There were quite a few individual surprises this year. Would anybody argue with the contribution of Young?

Maybe I'm the only one who didn't expect Kopp to emerge as strong as he did.

Buie showed a lot at many points as did Spencer. Jones and Nance had their moments.

Of course, each has their weaknesses. But how come the strengths almost never came together for an entire game - even at Nebraska? I thought the whole never came close to the sum of its parts.

I know there's not a ton of talent to work with, but I'm leaning toward the idea this shouldn't have been the ABSOLUTE disaster it turned out to be.

Problem is we tend to think or have a memory of the players at their best. Kopp for example... probably the one who grew the most. Still, had quite a few games where he disappeared. That's not really that uncommon. They all had games with very little to show for.

Good - players showing they have talent and there's something to work with

Bad/ugly - everything else
 

loyolacat

Freshman
Oct 21, 2006
2,699
50
48
the sum of its parts.
I think this is the crux of the deal with this team.....none of the parts are defective,,,,just do not fit together really well...so many of todays successful teams are multi-guard orientated. A lot of the guys we have are kind of tall and gangly, not very quick first steppers either defensively or offensively, no one is a lock down defender (remember Lumpkin and his value). When they started to emphasis eliminating hand checking the value of guards that could put it on the floor and finish at the hoop went way up as that forced more double teams which opened up the perimeter...Boo might be this guy when he becomes a better finisher and passer.....but if you get two of these guys now you are cooking....that is why I a curious about the guys we have available next year. If SPencer and Boo had another year together might have been special........My thought is that if teams wanted to shut down Kopp they could. and Young is really solid fundamentally and plays sooo hard but is not a match for some of the other bigs.....will be interesting to see how Jones continues to develop..if he is a true center or more of a 4......But I had no problem rooting for this team this year...was interesting to see how they continued to try and break the lock with the keys they had.
 

Medill90

Junior
Jan 30, 2011
6,910
321
0
There's one aspect I haven't been able to wrap my head around over these last few painful weeks.

There were quite a few individual surprises this year. Would anybody argue with the contribution of Young?

Maybe I'm the only one who didn't expect Kopp to emerge as strong as he did.

Buie showed a lot at many points as did Spencer. Jones and Nance had their moments.

Of course, each has their weaknesses. But how come the strengths almost never came together for an entire game - even at Nebraska? I thought the whole never came close to the sum of its parts.

I know there's not a ton of talent to work with, but I'm leaning toward the idea this shouldn't have been the ABSOLUTE disaster it turned out to be.

I think that's a fair question. My response would be that, similar to the early 1980's, the Big Ten is exceptional this year. Historically exceptional from top to bottom. I mean, Rutgers and PSU are both pretty good.

Not sure, though, that people get how well the Big Ten has recruited. It's going to be loaded again next year.
 

Kat burglar

Redshirt
Sep 5, 2017
231
8
18
Looking in the rearview mirror, D.
Looking forward out the windshield, B+

This year was about giving the young guys playing time to develop. Toward the end of the season we were playing all Sophomores and Freshmen for several minutes at a time. Big Ten playing time is essential for growth. It also points out what needs to be worked on over the summer. Also, getting your butt kicked by another team makes you work harder than if its only the coaches yelling at you.

I think there was strong growth this season and I would expect us to be near .500 in conference next year. This year, one game over .500 put you in 5th place.
 

7th Cir. Cat

Redshirt
Jul 25, 2006
2,171
9
23
How many wins do you predict for next year? This quote makes it seem like you believe our record will be the same as this season.

I think we will definitely be better than 3 conference wins. But I wouldn't be shocked if we only had 5 or 6, which while an improvement is still behind where I thought we would be at this point post NCAA breakthrough.

This is of course assuming there is still college basketball/functioning society.
 

EvanstonCat

Senior
May 29, 2001
50,761
762
73
Coach - Winning % (record)
Collins @ NU - .478 (109-119) in 7 seasons
Carmody @ NU - .478 (192-210) in 13 seasons

Damn, that’s pretty depressing.

This said, I would expect a much higher winning percentage after year 13 for Collins. If we give him that long. (He better start turning it around right quick.)
 

GatoLouco

Sophomore
Nov 13, 2019
5,636
116
63
I refuse to think of our program in terms of Collins vs. Carmody. 13 years was way too long to give Carmody. And it is not Collins having any record that can make Carmody look good. Or bad for that matter.

Bottom line, you do not invest so many millions in a program to be mediocre. You expect it to be at least respectable. And it is not. 2 more seasons. That's it. Beyond that it's madness.
 

Styre

Senior
Oct 14, 2004
7,728
401
83
I refuse to think of our program in terms of Collins vs. Carmody. 13 years was way too long to give Carmody. And it is not Collins having any record that can make Carmody look good. Or bad for that matter.

Bottom line, you do not invest so many millions in a program to be mediocre. You expect it to be at least respectable. And it is not. 2 more seasons. That's it. Beyond that it's madness.

Yes! Things are supposed to be different now. This isn't the half-assed, embarrassing program of the Carmody era, this is a Big Ten financial juggernaut that has its big-boy pants on and wants to be taken seriously. So you can't say "But Carmody got 13 years!" Real programs don't do that. You can't say "But admissions!" Real programs find a way around that. At any other major conference program, Collins would have been fired the day after the BTT loss (assuming there wasn't a viral pandemic).

Personally, I have said all year that Collins should not lose his job, no matter how bad this year gets, and I stand by that. Everyone knew this was going to suck and they kept him around anyway, so it'd be unfair to fire him for what everyone expected. But I strongly believe that he should be coaching for his job in 2020-21. If their record isn't significantly better, and if he hasn't secured commitments from PBJ/Christie/etc., then he should be gone. 8 years is enough to judge a performance, and while I will forever be grateful to Collins for finally getting us to the tournament, 1 good season in 8 tries is simply not good enough for a Big Ten program.
 

Purple Pile Driver

All-Conference
May 14, 2014
27,122
2,556
113
Yes! Things are supposed to be different now. This isn't the half-assed, embarrassing program of the Carmody era, this is a Big Ten financial juggernaut that has its big-boy pants on and wants to be taken seriously. So you can't say "But Carmody got 13 years!" Real programs don't do that. You can't say "But admissions!" Real programs find a way around that. At any other major conference program, Collins would have been fired the day after the BTT loss (assuming there wasn't a viral pandemic).

Personally, I have said all year that Collins should not lose his job, no matter how bad this year gets, and I stand by that. Everyone knew this was going to suck and they kept him around anyway, so it'd be unfair to fire him for what everyone expected. But I strongly believe that he should be coaching for his job in 2020-21. If their record isn't significantly better, and if he hasn't secured commitments from PBJ/Christie/etc., then he should be gone. 8 years is enough to judge a performance, and while I will forever be grateful to Collins for finally getting us to the tournament, 1 good season in 8 tries is simply not good enough for a Big Ten program.

NU has had 2 winning B1G Ten seasons in 60 years! Process that. The current coach has managed one of them. It’s astonishing that he has got the recruits he has gotten the last 3 years. Try to recruit with that history. How about all the NBA players NU has produced in those 60 years? How about the student, alumni and general fan support? I am sure there is a BMOC vibe on campus for the players. so now we get a new half empty arena and B1G money ( which btw every team gets) and we expect consistent winning year in and year out? This is a developmental program. NU does not reload. Sorry, but you would need to raise John Wooden from the grave for consistent championships.

There is one reason and one reason only we have an outside chance with PBJ and Christie. Family connections. Neither would even glance at NU without that. They should build a statue of CCC outside of WR if CCC lands them. CCC went to the tourney with one player that was an acceptable recruit to the majority of B1G teams. He has to have some clue.

No one disputes NU has to be much better the next 3 years. Great, but I see these calls for CCC’s Head next year like we have had some stellar history of success or because we are sinking so much cash in the program that winning should be a given. Sorry, but the only real chance that NU has to not be the half assed embarrassing program of the Carmody era is to let this play out with CCC. At the rate we are going, I will be 120 years old and still be able to count B1G ten winning seasons on one hand. Maybe CCC won’t or can’t turn the program around to some power, but I have some serious doubts anyone can. This isn’t rec league players/programs NU goes against. There are major challenges in this job.
 

Styre

Senior
Oct 14, 2004
7,728
401
83
Sorry, but you would need to raise John Wooden from the grave for consistent championships.

I'm not talking about consistent championships, good lord. Right now we can't even consistently finish .500 overall.

At the rate we are going, I will be 120 years old and still be able to count B1G ten winning seasons on one hand. Maybe CCC won’t or can’t turn the program around to some power, but I have some serious doubts anyone can. This isn’t rec league players/programs NU goes against. There are major challenges in this job.

Again, you're putting words in my mouth. At no point have I argued that Collins needs to build NU into a national power to keep his job. Building a program that doesn't lose three buy games at home in year 7 would be a good start.

(And remember, NU's own standard for a coach is that one losing season after 4 straight postseason appearances is a fireable offense.)
 

Purple Pile Driver

All-Conference
May 14, 2014
27,122
2,556
113
I'm not talking about consistent championships, good lord. Right now we can't even consistently finish .500 overall.



Again, you're putting words in my mouth. At no point have I argued that Collins needs to build NU into a national power to keep his job. Building a program that doesn't lose three buy games at home in year 7 would be a good start.

(And remember, NU's own standard for a coach is that one losing season after 4 straight postseason appearances is a fireable offense.)
Like I said 2 winning Big Ten seasons in the last 60. Personally, could care less about the NIT. Even buy games are exhibitions for the most part. Embarrassing, sure, but it is hard to get much more embarrassed than being 2 of 60. I want to make the upper half if the B1G. That gets you in a real tournament. If CCC does that he should be Coach of the year in the B1G. If PBJ and Christie come to NU he should a lifetime contract. If he can’t turn around the team with these current players, he will be dismissed. Many will be happy with a change. NU will get a jolt of energy from a change then regress to the mean. After all, with all of the cash being sunk in the program, NU should be able to get the next up and comer and he’s sure to stay around for the duration.
 

Medill90

Junior
Jan 30, 2011
6,910
321
0
NU has had 2 winning B1G Ten seasons in 60 years! Process that. The current coach has managed one of them. It’s astonishing that he has got the recruits he has gotten the last 3 years. Try to recruit with that history. How about all the NBA players NU has produced in those 60 years? How about the student, alumni and general fan support? I am sure there is a BMOC vibe on campus for the players. so now we get a new half empty arena and B1G money ( which btw every team gets) and we expect consistent winning year in and year out? This is a developmental program. NU does not reload. Sorry, but you would need to raise John Wooden from the grave for consistent championships.

There is one reason and one reason only we have an outside chance with PBJ and Christie. Family connections. Neither would even glance at NU without that. They should build a statue of CCC outside of WR if CCC lands them. CCC went to the tourney with one player that was an acceptable recruit to the majority of B1G teams. He has to have some clue.

No one disputes NU has to be much better the next 3 years. Great, but I see these calls for CCC’s Head next year like we have had some stellar history of success or because we are sinking so much cash in the program that winning should be a given. Sorry, but the only real chance that NU has to not be the half assed embarrassing program of the Carmody era is to let this play out with CCC. At the rate we are going, I will be 120 years old and still be able to count B1G ten winning seasons on one hand. Maybe CCC won’t or can’t turn the program around to some power, but I have some serious doubts anyone can. This isn’t rec league players/programs NU goes against. There are major challenges in this job.

I agree with a lot of this. Already it's gotten to the point that in any other Big Ten program, Collins would be fired. From the NCAA to the bottom of the conference in three years....Adios.

But everyone in the administration, in basketball, in the NU donor community have clarity on why NU bball is impossible, admissions and history. Some of us put it at 90% admissions and 10% history, and others weigh the history more heavily.

Here's the thing (as Joe Biden might say), during Carmody's last three or so years Collins was always hanging out there. Collins was the project that the good doctor wanted to try to turn around the program. (one could argue...NCAA...facilities and stadium....he did ok for NU). But there was a plan, an avenue that was very different from where the program was (at the time experiencing a modicum of NIT success).

What would a change today buy NU? Better recruiting? Better O and D schemes? Better understanding of the NU culture? (admissions will not change) Better in game coaching? So much so that the new coach and squad will do that much better than last year's Law, Pardon, Gaines, AJ, Taylor, Kopp squad? C'mon.

Admissions has ensured that NU basketball in the Big Ten will the majority of the time be Deon Thomas in an upper level NU bio class.
 

Figrating

Redshirt
Dec 19, 2007
3,568
30
0
The next recruiting class will make or break CCC.

Few NU young players in the CCC era have grown into conference level players. They have been injured and they have transferred and in one case sat out and sat on their scholarship. But the players on the current team seem more capable.
 

combes

Heisman
Jul 10, 2001
36,256
10,766
66
Like I said 2 winning Big Ten seasons in the last 60. Personally, could care less about the NIT. Even buy games are exhibitions for the most part. Embarrassing, sure, but it is hard to get much more embarrassed than being 2 of 60. I want to make the upper half if the B1G. That gets you in a real tournament. If CCC does that he should be Coach of the year in the B1G. If PBJ and Christie come to NU he should a lifetime contract. If he can’t turn around the team with these current players, he will be dismissed. Many will be happy with a change. NU will get a jolt of energy from a change then regress to the mean. After all, with all of the cash being sunk in the program, NU should be able to get the next up and comer and he’s sure to stay around for the duration.
Michigan State appears to be the leader for Christie. Had an official there a week ago and reportedly was duly impressed. He watched them clinch a share of the BT title and saw Winston kiss the logo at mid court on senior night. Purdue is a threat, too. Illinois was supposed to get a visit in April but that is obviously up in the air. And Duke is still his dream school but they have yet to offer. Tough competition.
 

Gocatsgo2003

All-Conference
Mar 30, 2006
46,628
3,003
78
Yes! Things are supposed to be different now. This isn't the half-assed, embarrassing program of the Carmody era, this is a Big Ten financial juggernaut that has its big-boy pants on and wants to be taken seriously. So you can't say "But Carmody got 13 years!" Real programs don't do that. You can't say "But admissions!" Real programs find a way around that. At any other major conference program, Collins would have been fired the day after the BTT loss (assuming there wasn't a viral pandemic).

Personally, I have said all year that Collins should not lose his job, no matter how bad this year gets, and I stand by that. Everyone knew this was going to suck and they kept him around anyway, so it'd be unfair to fire him for what everyone expected. But I strongly believe that he should be coaching for his job in 2020-21. If their record isn't significantly better, and if he hasn't secured commitments from PBJ/Christie/etc., then he should be gone. 8 years is enough to judge a performance, and while I will forever be grateful to Collins for finally getting us to the tournament, 1 good season in 8 tries is simply not good enough for a Big Ten program.

"Real programs" don't have admissions problems in the first place.