Second Coaches' Rank and RPI

[Wrestleknownothing]

The second coaches' rank and RPI were released today.

Coaches' Rank
RPI

To qualify for an RPI a wrestler needs 15 matches against D1 wrestlers at his weight.

Right now Iowa only has 2 wrestlers who qualify for an RPI (Bailey, Caliendo). Only Columbia has all 10 wrestlers qualified for an RPI.

With three duals and the conference tournament left, none of the other wrestlers are mathematically eliminated, but some cannot afford a slip.

Wrestlers w/o RPI:
197 Sampson - 7 bouts
285 Kueter - 9
197 Ferrari - 10
125 Peterson - 11
157 Williams - 12
149 Block - 13
133 Ayala - 13
174 Kennedy - 14

For coaches' rank the requirement is only 8 matches. As a result 9 of 10 Iowa wrestlers are ranked in the top 33 with an expected points total of 74.3, good for an expected sixth place finish (behind PSU, Ohio St, ISU, Ok St, and Nebraska).

 

[AurtherS]

Kennedy?
How many matches does Gabe have at 184 and 197? I am guessing he can’t get an RPI at any weight.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Kennedy?
How many matches does Gabe have at 184 and 197? I am guessing he can’t get an RPI at any weight.

Oops. I will edit the post.

Arnold has 6 at 174, 7 at 184 and 2 at 197

 

[InTheCircle]

The second coaches' rank and RPI were released today.

Coaches' Rank
RPI

To qualify for an RPI a wrestler needs 15 matches against D1 wrestlers at his weight.

Right now Iowa only has 2 wrestlers who qualify for an RPI (Bailey, Caliendo). Only Columbia has all 10 wrestlers qualified for an RPI.

With three duals and the conference tournament left, none of the other wrestlers are mathematically eliminated, but some cannot afford a slip.

Wrestlers w/o RPI:
197 Sampson - 7 bouts
285 Kueter - 9
197 Ferrari - 10
125 Peterson - 11
157 Williams - 12
149 Block - 13
133 Ayala - 13
174 Kennedy - 14

For coaches' rank the requirement is only 8 matches. As a result 9 of 10 Iowa wrestlers are ranked in the top 33 with an expected points total of 74.3, good for an expected sixth place finish (behind PSU, Ohio St, ISU, Ok St, and Nebraska).

If you don’t skip the soldier salute, this isn’t an issue.
On another note Okie State has 9 of 10 in the top ten of coaches rank. The only not, is 11th in the coaches poll.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

If you don’t skip the soldier salute, this isn’t an issue.

No one told me I was supposed to be there. I will do better.

 

[AndreTheHawk]

The second coaches' rank and RPI were released today.

Coaches' Rank
RPI

To qualify for an RPI a wrestler needs 15 matches against D1 wrestlers at his weight.

Right now Iowa only has 2 wrestlers who qualify for an RPI (Bailey, Caliendo). Only Columbia has all 10 wrestlers qualified for an RPI.

With three duals and the conference tournament left, none of the other wrestlers are mathematically eliminated, but some cannot afford a slip.

Wrestlers w/o RPI:
197 Sampson - 7 bouts
285 Kueter - 9
197 Ferrari - 10
125 Peterson - 11
157 Williams - 12
149 Block - 13
133 Ayala - 13
174 Kennedy - 14

For coaches' rank the requirement is only 8 matches. As a result 9 of 10 Iowa wrestlers are ranked in the top 33 with an expected points total of 74.3, good for an expected sixth place finish (behind PSU, Ohio St, ISU, Ok St, and Nebraska).

You can't expect the modern athlete with the best all around resources in the history of mankind to actually participate in their chosen sport.......they could actually get hurt doing that live and in front of paying fans. We can't have that.

 

[dtripp26]

You can't expect the modern athlete with the best all around resources in the history of mankind to actually participate in their chosen sport.......they could actually get hurt doing that live and in front of paying fans. We can't have that.

15 matches in 3.5 months. How dare you ask highly trained (and now paid) young athletes do that???

While raising ticket prices of course.

I'm about to go into load management as a fan.

 

[Corby2]

15 matches in 3.5 months. How dare you ask highly trained (and now paid) young athletes do that???

While raising ticket prices of course.

I'm about to go into load management as a fan.

It's because of sports specialization. Kids now wrestle 150 matches a year for 4 years before college. Years ago 50-70 was a lot. The training 11 months a year and wear and tear on the same muscles and joints over and over. 16-17 year old kids are having Tommy John surgery nowadays because they throw 11-12 months a year. College coaches need to manage the assets so they can make it 4-5 years . Travel leagues and clubs have ruined youth sports

 

[Misalorales]

It's because of sports specialization. Kids now wrestle 150 matches a year for 4 years before college. Years ago 50-70 was a lot. The training 11 months a year and wear and tear on the same muscles and joints over and over. 16-17 year old kids are having Tommy John surgery nowadays because they throw 11-12 months a year. College coaches need to manage the assets so they can make it 4-5 years . Travel leagues and clubs have ruined youth sports

I only want to push back on the tommy john surgery thing because in my childhood they started pitch counts at youth levels and all levels and then the state of tommy john surgeries broke a while after that changed. I've always wondered if it didn't have an unintentional negative impact. They'd get to the MLB and they weren't conditioned to throw that much.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

I only want to push back on the tommy john surgery thing because in my childhood they started pitch counts at youth levels and all levels and then the state of tommy john surgeries broke a while after that changed. I've always wondered if it didn't have an unintentional negative impact. They'd get to the MLB and they weren't conditioned to throw that much.

Isn't it more so 1) bad mechanics + 2) too many curveballs using those bad mechanics + 3) too much pitching without proper warmups (including stretching) that leads to throwing injuries?

 

[Tiltman]

It's because of sports specialization. Kids now wrestle 150 matches a year for 4 years before college. Years ago 50-70 was a lot. The training 11 months a year and wear and tear on the same muscles and joints over and over. 16-17 year old kids are having Tommy John surgery nowadays because they throw 11-12 months a year. College coaches need to manage the assets so they can make it 4-5 years . Travel leagues and clubs have ruined youth sports

Funny wrestlers will piss pound each other in practice going live but god forbid they do it with a crowd watching; the crowd just adds that extra bit of danger I guess

 

[Corby2]

I only want to push back on the tommy john surgery thing because in my childhood they started pitch counts at youth levels and all levels and then the state of tommy john surgeries broke a while after that changed. I've always wondered if it didn't have an unintentional negative impact. They'd get to the MLB and they weren't conditioned to throw that much.

They still throw in doors all winter and do private lessons. It's still a problem

 

[Corby2]

Funny wrestlers will piss pound each other in practice going live but god forbid they do it with a crowd watching; the crowd just adds that extra bit of danger I guess

Yep and the reason they don't do it as much is because they were doing those practices for 4 years 11-12 months a year before college

 

[Misalorales]

Isn't it more so 1) bad mechanics + 2) too many curveballs using those bad mechanics + 3) too much pitching without proper warmups (including stretching) that leads to throwing injuries?

I really don't know enough about baseball to hazard a guess I just have always been confused by the startling increase in that operation since pitch counts came around

 

[blcoach80]

Isn't it more so 1) bad mechanics + 2) too many curveballs using those bad mechanics + 3) too much pitching without proper warmups (including stretching) that leads to throwing injuries?

The human shoulder/elbow was not designed to throw a 5 ounce baseball over and over at 60-80 mph for years on end. I always said if you are a pitcher at any level past high school, it isn't a matter of whether you get injured or not, but a question of when. Mechanics are only trying to minimize stress on the joints, but will never eliminate it over time. My son is a catcher and he throws more than the pitchers honestly, which is why I never had him pitch or work on pitching. Last thing I want is for him to take the game off from catching to turn around and pitch in it.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

I really don't know enough about baseball to hazard a guess I just have always been confused by the startling increase in that operation since pitch counts came around

Reference please.

Increased Tommy John surgeries (UCL reconstructions) in young athletes are strongly correlated with high pitch counts.

I feel it's safe to assume the majority of MLB pitchers had played baseball practically year round in warm weather states, sometimes for multiple teams.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

The human shoulder/elbow was not designed to throw a 5 ounce baseball over and over at 60-80 mph for years on end. I always said if you are a pitcher at any level past high school, it isn't a matter of whether you get injured or not, but a question of when. Mechanics are only trying to minimize stress on the joints, but will never eliminate it over time. My son is a catcher and he throws more than the pitchers honestly, which is why I never had him pitch or work on pitching. Last thing I want is for him to take the game off from catching to turn around and pitch in it.

I coached in a youth league where pitch count affected eligibility to catch. Still, coaches were either unaware or willfully skirted the rules until called on it.

Lots of balls are thrown at practice. Then multiply it for both a house team and travel team (or teams) that separately track pitch counts.

 

[Corby2]

I really don't know enough about baseball to hazard a guess I just have always been confused by the startling increase in that operation since pitch counts came around

Overuse is a huge reason why Tommy John surgery is needed

 

[Misalorales]

Reference please.

Increased Tommy John surgeries (UCL reconstructions) in young athletes are strongly correlated with high pitch counts.

I feel it's safe to assume the majority of MLB pitchers had played baseball year practically round in warm weather states, sometimes for multiple teams.

Reference for what? Just Google "increase in tommy john surgeries". There are dozens of articles about the drastic increase. I told you I don't know why I just was interested in the whole pitch count thing and how the increase came after that. I believe you and the others, they're just throwing harder and at worse angles and regardless of pitch count limits they're still overusing their arms at young ages.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Reference for what? Just Google "increase in tommy john surgeries". There are dozens of articles about the drastic increase. I told you I don't know why I just was interested in the whole pitch count thing and how the increase came after that. I believe you and the others, they're just throwing harder and at worse angles and regardless of pitch count limits they're still overusing their arms at young ages.

I did. It said overuse. Not correlated to less use.

Although correlation is not causation, no correlation means no opportunity for causation.

 

[Corby2]

Reference for what? Just Google "increase in tommy john surgeries". There are dozens of articles about the drastic increase. I told you I don't know why I just was interested in the whole pitch count thing and how the increase came after that. I believe you and the others, they're just throwing harder and at worse angles and regardless of pitch count limits they're still overusing their arms at young ages.

My suggestion is just say ok I agree with you or we can agree to disagree and move on unless you've 10 hours. 98 won't even stop to eat his 2nd lunch

 

[dtripp26]

It's because of sports specialization. Kids now wrestle 150 matches a year for 4 years before college. Years ago 50-70 was a lot. The training 11 months a year and wear and tear on the same muscles and joints over and over. 16-17 year old kids are having Tommy John surgery nowadays because they throw 11-12 months a year. College coaches need to manage the assets so they can make it 4-5 years . Travel leagues and clubs have ruined youth sports

Yes we know that aspect has changed...but wrestling "load management" is suddenly making the NBA look good by comparison.

A fringe sport that doesnt make any damn money, where the atheletes get paid but don't particpate regularly and ticket prices are rising...sounds like one helluva failing model.

But that's none of our business!

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

My suggestion is just say ok I agree with you or we can agree to disagree and move on unless you've 10 hours. 98 won't even stop to eat his 2nd lunch

I look forward to the day you follow your own suggestion.

I would simply be interested in reading an actual study, is all. Can do so over my 2nd lunch.

 

[blcoach80]

I coached in a youth league where pitch count affected eligibility to catch. Still, coaches were either unaware or willfully skirted the rules until called on it.

Lots of balls are thrown at practice. Then multiply it for both a house team and travel team (or teams) that separately track pitch counts.

I coached all three of my boy's travel teams for the last 12 years and most leagues/tournaments did innings for pitching rules. 6 inning max per day if any rules were enforced. Drove me nuts. I always tracked pitches and went by that for my players, regardless of innings. My best pitchers could throw 6 innings on 80 or less pitches. Some kids threw 40 or 50 pitches an inning if they struggled with control. That is 240-300 pitches in 6 innings! Is that ok for 1 day regardless of rest before or after? It was so stupid. I tracked teams we played that pitched 1 kid for 180 pitches, only to move him to the field from there. I always told parents I want every kid to be a pitcher other than our catchers so we can play lots of games and never stray from pitch count rules. Never had any problems other than tired arms sometimes. I also never practiced pitching in practice once we started playing games. Youth's muscles just aren't developed enough to handle that much pitching and when they get tired mechanics get sloppy. That is when injuries happen. Coaches are ruining youth sports by putting winning over the development and safety of these kids imo. One sport athletes starting at young ages are overuse injuries waiting to happen too imo.

 

[4net3sandbagger]

It's because of sports specialization. Kids now wrestle 150 matches a year for 4 years before college. Years ago 50-70 was a lot. The training 11 months a year and wear and tear on the same muscles and joints over and over. 16-17 year old kids are having Tommy John surgery nowadays because they throw 11-12 months a year. College coaches need to manage the assets so they can make it 4-5 years . Travel leagues and clubs have ruined youth sports

I agree to a certain extent, but I don't think clubs have really ruined youth sports. Initially, probably some validity, but I think alot of the clubs have a much different approach than they did before. The handful of guys you used to see come right out of high school ready to make a lineup, were beat up alot of times. Or they were burnt out a bit. You don't see that as much now. Alot of freshmen are ready to go, and are still pretty fresh. College coaches have the responsibility when the kid gets on campus. Just like the clubs, some do it better than others.

 

[Misalorales]

I did. It said overuse. Not correlated to less use.

Although correlation is not causation, no correlation means no opportunity for causation.

I feel like we're talking past one another and baseball and related stuff is one of the last things on earth I want to debate over lol. Thank you for your knowledge and explanation!

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

I coached all three of my boy's travel teams for the last 12 years and most leagues/tournaments did innings for pitching rules. 6 inning max per day if any rules were enforced. Drove me nuts. I always tracked pitches and went by that for my players, regardless of innings. My best pitchers could throw 6 innings on 80 or less pitches. Some kids threw 40 or 50 pitches an inning if they struggled with control. That is 240-300 pitches in 6 innings! Is that ok for 1 day regardless of rest before or after? It was so stupid. I tracked teams we played that pitched 1 kid for 180 pitches, only to move him to the field from there. I always told parents I want every kid to be a pitcher other than our catchers so we can play lots of games and never stray from pitch count rules. Never had any problems other than tired arms sometimes. I also never practiced pitching in practice once we started playing games. Youth's muscles just aren't developed enough to handle that much pitching and when they get tired mechanics get sloppy. That is when injuries happen. Coaches are ruining youth sports by putting winning over the development and safety of these kids imo. One sport athletes starting at young ages are overuse injuries waiting to happen too imo.

Yeah. Innings is not so effective. I also kept a counter clicker.

 

[AndreTheHawk]

Reference for what? Just Google "increase in tommy john surgeries". There are dozens of articles about the drastic increase. I told you I don't know why I just was interested in the whole pitch count thing and how the increase came after that. I believe you and the others, they're just throwing harder and at worse angles and regardless of pitch count limits they're still overusing their arms at young ages.

Way back when, regardless of what level you were at, when you started a game on the mound, you were expected to end it, unless you were getting shelled. And people did it, often.

Nolan Ryan threw 222 complete games (nowhere near a record). Last year 3 MLB players tied for the League Lead with 2 complete games. So if those 3 pitch for 111 more years, they'll tie Nolan Ryan. (with the pitch counts being what they are, maybe they'll have a shot....).

MLB Complete games have dropped from 87.6 % of games in 1904, to 0.6 % in 2024.

I guess the athletes were just better back then...........

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Way back when, regardless of what level you were at, when you started a game on the mound, you were expected to end it, unless you were getting shelled. And people did it, often.

Nolan Ryan threw 222 complete games (nowhere near a record). Last year 3 MLB players tied for the League Lead with 2 complete games. So if those 3 pitch for 111 more years, they'll tie Nolan Ryan. (with the pitch counts being what they are, maybe they'll have a shot....).

MLB Complete games have dropped from 87.6 % of games in 1904, to 0.6 % in 2024.

I guess the athletes were just better back then...........

Best strikeout pitcher in live ball era, and dead ball era. More strikes thrown in 1904, more balls put in play.

Nolan Ryan 9.55 strikeouts per 9 innings
Christy Matthewson 4.71 strikeouts per 9 innings.

I don't discount the nutritional value of fresh food was greater in the past than it is now.

 

[Corby2]

I look forward to the day you follow your own suggestion.

I would simply be interested in reading an actual study, is all. Can do so over my 2nd lunch.

Did I not say to you a few days ago we can agree to disagree? And you still kept going

 

[Corby2]

I agree to a certain extent, but I don't think clubs have really ruined youth sports. Initially, probably some validity, but I think alot of the clubs have a much different approach than they did before. The handful of guys you used to see come right out of high school ready to make a lineup, were beat up alot of times. Or they were burnt out a bit. You don't see that as much now. Alot of freshmen are ready to go, and are still pretty fresh. College coaches have the responsibility when the kid gets on campus. Just like the clubs, some do it better than others.

They're ready to go because of RTCs and being able to go to training camps with SR level guys. Some clubs that are high level obviously have guys ready. It's a business now clubs are everywhere and more isn't always better.

 

[4net3sandbagger]

They're ready to go because of RTCs and being able to go to training camps with SR level guys. Some clubs that are high level obviously have guys ready. It's a business now clubs are everywhere and more isn't always better.

Agreed. The point I was making was just the difference coming out now. Its created alot more ready to go guys out of the gate, and they seem healthier and better equipped than in the past. The old clubs were grinders. The products of those clubs showed that.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Did I not say to you a few days ago we can agree to disagree? And you still kept going

IDK, did you? Did I read that post before replying? Were my posts replies to you?

 

[InTheCircle]

It's because of sports specialization. Kids now wrestle 150 matches a year for 4 years before college. Years ago 50-70 was a lot. The training 11 months a year and wear and tear on the same muscles and joints over and over. 16-17 year old kids are having Tommy John surgery nowadays because they throw 11-12 months a year. College coaches need to manage the assets so they can make it 4-5 years . Travel leagues and clubs have ruined youth sports

Great points and good responses. Other than blcoach80, no mention of who is in control of these young athletes lives and schedules. I think it’s the parents?
Parents who were in sports know whether their child has the inner drive to compete at the highest level.
My Grandson is a pretty good athlete and we talk a lot about finding his passion and then what it takes to be really good at it. I don’t care if it’s wrestling, baseball or saxophone. One thing is for certain, getting good grades.
He said to me tonight, “You have to work smarter, not harder all the time.”
I asked him, “Well how do you that?”He looked somewhat puzzled and I said,
“You have to have knowledge and experience failures.”
The parents shouldn’t allow such a grind until bodies and minds mature.