To start a season nobody should ever say "man Duke is going to be really deep this year", because we never see it. I am sick of hearing the injury excuse because many teams in the country have dealt with it. It is frustrating to watch Grayson and Amile get 35 minutes while they are injured and some talented kids sitting on the bench. K has talked about how if this were the NBA he would rest them but he could spot them some minutes for sure.
September Depth/March 7 Man Rotation
- Thread starter duhondukie
- Start date
When Duke flames out in ACCT and then NCAAT everyone can say it was because K refused to develop a bench. Whether it is true or not will be too late. It will have to be considered the main reason.
My only issue is", Seven is not enough"!
This team is seven deep and I've always wondered. Posters and annylist say, you earn game time in practice so do we now look at it like Bolden, Jeter, Big V, Jack White and Javin just aren't getting it in practice?
I might catch flack but it's hard to see why five players sit on the bench. I get White and Javin, there freshman and Jeter is coming off of back surgery, but Bolden and Big V?
This team is seven deep and I've always wondered. Posters and annylist say, you earn game time in practice so do we now look at it like Bolden, Jeter, Big V, Jack White and Javin just aren't getting it in practice?
I might catch flack but it's hard to see why five players sit on the bench. I get White and Javin, there freshman and Jeter is coming off of back surgery, but Bolden and Big V?
I was certain we would see Marques after his contributions Saturday during his obligatory short stint. I was surprised he didnt see floor....
OFC
I get why Coach has shortened the bench. We now have an identity where the offense runs through our 3 key playmakers and we're set on playing small ball with Tatum at the 4. I just wish we would also give Bolden some minutes to develop because him becoming an integral part of the team would raise both our ceiling and floor this season. We would have the option to play big or small depending on the matchup which would add so much flexibility to our squad. I do think we're at our best with Tatum at the 4, but that doesn't mean that has to be the only look we have all game.
Not trying to be an expert, what is a message board/forum for? I certainly do not have all the answers but we usually see 1 to 2 kids transfer out of Duke every year because of lack of playing time or zero playing time.
It's not so much the minutes on Allen, Kennard and Tatum. It's the strain that we rely on those 3 so much, whereas a little production from bigs could take some strain off. As Sir Charles Barkley says, you live by the jump shot, you die by the jump shot. 8 guys are enough to get it done. Very seldom does Duke work inside out.
Bolden and jeter are head scratchers for me I wish they got some burn but it always happens so idk
This year had been a big disapointment, don't understand why Giles is not playing more. Allen needs to stop being a ball hog. This team will not win a championship , until we develop a inside game to many damn 3 point shots
I don't like Duke losing either but Allen is a scorer, not a ball hog. He's off right now for sure, but it's not all on him. Yes he needs to be better, Duke will have a chance if he gets the swag back. Giles may could play more but he's 18-19 and had 3 knee surgeries.
I know we tend to over react after a loss aside from the Cuse game don't see why Bolden is not getting more burn. Defensive liability maybe? Giles seems to be very productive lately he should get more minutes. Let me add Allen made a poor decision up two.. we may not have scored but thought we could have been more creative.
Jeter has been hurt. That's why he hasn't been in. Bolden who the heck knows what's up, and as far as Giles, I guess they are protecting him for the NBA. We do it every year looking at the season before it starts with our royal blue glasses on and a lot will do it next year with the Talent coming in. The thing is no one ever knows how players or teams are going to pan out. I said it earlier with the Talent on this team and the results we are getting from them, it really makes you look back at that 1999 roster and realize how amazing that team was even though they came up short. They completely destroyed teams and went 16-0 in what was then the real ACC.
Coach K isn't reducing Giles' minutes to protect him for the NBA. He is rolling out the players who he thinks give us the best chance to win on that given night. I, and many others, just happen to disagree with who those players are.
surprised you have 2 top 20 recruits just wilting away on the bench. I thought last night K couldve used bolden and jeter to wear cuse down very easily especially when you all have foul trouble like that.
I don't necessarily blame the rotation, I just think that the staff is pretty clueless about strategy. Coach seems obsessed with the 3: On Offense, have 3-4 guys that are great shooters. On Defense, prevent a high proportion of 3's by extending the Defense and switching everything.
So what's the result? Well our great shooters tend to have little athleticism, so they get burned again and again on D. And since we rarely have rim protectors (and when we do, they sit on the bench), what ends up happening is an endless parade of high-percentage shots at the rim, leading to an easy 2 or a foul and a couple of free throws.
I really think it's as simple as this. When we have strong perimeter defenders (e.g., with someone like Winslow) and/or strong rim protection, our D is pretty solid. When we don't - like this year - our D is terrible.
Coach just doesn't see this. If he wants a mix of good D and O, and insists on switching on D, then he should recruit at least 1-2 guys 6'6 - 6'9 who are good perimeter defenders and aren't a liability on O.
Why is this so hard to understand?
So what's the result? Well our great shooters tend to have little athleticism, so they get burned again and again on D. And since we rarely have rim protectors (and when we do, they sit on the bench), what ends up happening is an endless parade of high-percentage shots at the rim, leading to an easy 2 or a foul and a couple of free throws.
I really think it's as simple as this. When we have strong perimeter defenders (e.g., with someone like Winslow) and/or strong rim protection, our D is pretty solid. When we don't - like this year - our D is terrible.
Coach just doesn't see this. If he wants a mix of good D and O, and insists on switching on D, then he should recruit at least 1-2 guys 6'6 - 6'9 who are good perimeter defenders and aren't a liability on O.
Why is this so hard to understand?
I would like to see us go a bit deeper, but this is classic K. Like it or not. Last night I thought Jefferson played a great game even if he wasn't 100%. I too would have like to see more minutes for Giles, but we have seen this time and time again this season. Grayson had a rough game, Jones played some good D but shot poorly, Jackson shot poorly and made some bad decisions. Luke picked it up in the second half and kept us in the game.
Was K supposed to put Bolden in a point guard?? There weren't any other options.
Was K supposed to put Bolden in a point guard?? There weren't any other options.
Giles has been looking very good lately. would be a shame not to see him pay day dividends at Duke "IF" he's capable.
Butterball, I agree with you on Bolden. Armchair coaching it, I don't know why Duke didn't try attacking them inside. Forget Jeter. He's a cheerleader.
Some seem to think we'd be fine with two traditional bigs out there: say Bolden and Amile for stretches. That would totally screw up our defensive switching and we'd have to fight around every screen, with Bolden and Harry being the hedgers and our oversized guards being chasers. If you guys haven't noticed, both Harry and Bolden recover to the lane like molasses. It's not their fault, they just don't have enough foot speed and anticipation yet. Add in the fact that Tatum is rebounding superbly, and it's clear to me that we've got the right personnel out there. No one complains about our approach at all when we're winning; now we drop a road game due to poor shooting and some costly turnovers, and "Coach K needs to spread the minutes."??? Coach K isn't perfect, but give the man some credit. His game-plan is logical.
I tell ya right now, if I were coaching this team they would be undefeated. Coach K has lost it.
...JK....
...JK....
You spent too much time on THR before they banned you. No one is withering on the bench. Jeter had freaking back surgery. Before that he was (arguably) not at all effective.
Yea I don't know why people keep talking about Jeter when it's been said 100 times he had back surgery and is recovering....move along people
I take that as a compliment, unless now you're suddenly pretending thr is a place where they value logic and reason.
I stand by what I said. Syracuse is thin up front with guys nowhere near as skilled as either bolden or jeter, I wasn't aware he had back surgery so bolden then or hell even your other big guy..vrank? Or whatever. Lydon towards the end was getting easy layups along with gillon cuz your guys couldn't play any d due to foul trouble. At the very least use them for a couple minutes here or there to wear cuse down especially when you all got into foul trouble. I find it hard to imagine that at least one of them couldn't have played minutes in that game and helped.
What I am saying is you are parroting some of the typical nonsense we get from them. "Jeter is a 5* recruit wasting away on the bench" is a typical knock on Coach K. Look, if you want to say he could have played last night then fine. Keep in mind, he had back surgery like a month ago and was not very good (in my eyes/mind) before that. He played pretty limited minutes when half our team was battling some kind of injury. Most of us here hope like hell he improves, not only for our sakes but his. He seems like a good kid and we're all rooting for him. But he isn't very good.
Bolden is one I would like to see play more. I'm choosing to accept that Coach K understands the situation better than I do and so I can gripe a little and move on.
I think he understands the situation (we suck on D no matter who is out there) but doesn't have a plan (short-term: this season, or long-term) to address it. Last night he said we played 'without heart.' which is does exactly nothing prescriptive to fix the problem. Personally I'd love a lot more analysis to understand how we can improve but instead he's basically throwing up hands and placing it on the players. I mean, he does know we have super slow guards and no rim protector, right? How about a strategy that takes this into account? There's a reason we make 3* players look like world-beaters, every friggin year, and it's all about scheme and strategy.
Did you even read my post? I said I wasn't aware that jeter had surgery. But that doesn't change my thinking that bolden or your other big man couldn't have helped wear cuse down when you all got in foul trouble.
I'm not parroting anything, I am of the opinion you could go deeper into your bench and really help yourselves, and it's not like these guys are scrubs you have on your bench-teams would kill for that kind of depth.
Cute. You edited your post after I replied to it. You didn't say you hadn't heard about the back surgery. And yes I did read it.
Just let the masses hate Duke, Dukephys. There's no convincing the lifelong haters that Coach K is an intelligent, reflective man.
A lot of duke fans agree with your assessment. As said jeter Is coming off surgery. Sometimes think more is going on with bolden than is known. But no reason vrank can't give some minutes. When he has played this year he hasn't hurt the team.
This type of comment is annoying. I'm a Duke alum (Fuqua), go back almost every year, donate generously. I work in the business world where no one is above scrutiny, it's all about results. In my setting, if I have a client that has almost everything going for it - Brand name, top talent, etc. - yet is often losing battles against 3* competitors with less talent and brand name - then I'm going to assume that there are problems / opportunities worth investigating.
If you want to assume that Coach K is infallible or that a different strategy wouldn't change results, I won't call you a sunshine pumper or slurper. I'd appreciate it if you'd take a similar view of those of us who think Coach could be doing better.
I think it's time to go back to starting Harry.
Not perfect on defense but he had one particular moment where he was exceptional when his guy had the ball in the post.
Not perfect on defense but he had one particular moment where he was exceptional when his guy had the ball in the post.
bull**** I edited like 2 seconds after I typed it. Youre deflecting. I definitely never heard of the back surgery. Regardless youre continuing to act as if what Im saying is some sort of cardinal sin against K. Again, all Im saying is the failure to use your very talented depth is hurting your team. last night was a prime example. If you disagree, argue on those merits only, please.
Not expert by any means but after seeing how quick Dukes only three guards got in foul trouble at some point in time one would think especially with the strategy to attack Duke and attack the rim a big could help relieve the fouls.
Small Duke lineup will lose to FSU next week.
Got to give Giles and Bolden more minutes.
Would love to see 2-3 defense or 1/3/1 with Giles, Jefferson, Tatum, Kennard and either Allen or Jones.
Love Coach K but wish he would change things up occasionally.
Up 2 after the timeout with about 1:30 in the game it would have been a perfect time to switch to a zone. I believe that last timeout for the Orange and at least they would have had to change their offense.
Got to give Giles and Bolden more minutes.
Would love to see 2-3 defense or 1/3/1 with Giles, Jefferson, Tatum, Kennard and either Allen or Jones.
Love Coach K but wish he would change things up occasionally.
Up 2 after the timeout with about 1:30 in the game it would have been a perfect time to switch to a zone. I believe that last timeout for the Orange and at least they would have had to change their offense.
Duke won a national championship two years ago, 5 years removed prior to that. How ineffective is K really?
I'm all for conjecture on a message board, to somehow create an argument that Coach K is clueless and one person, that being yourself, has all of the correct answers is a little off. Maybe you work on Wall Street? It seems to be the "I can do it" mindset there.
Well I'll take your word for it on editing - I certainly didn't change your words. And I don't deflect. If you'll notice, my reply to you was pretty pointed, except for when it looked to me like you had edited what you had said (and you had). It's also funny that you would lead off a response with "did you even read my response" when my two line response to you clearly stated he had back surgery. So you didn't read mine.
So we'll both put Jeter to the side since I assume when you talk about the talented bench that people would kill for you aren't including him. If you want to argue this one, well then in addition to not reading you also don't watch games.
Again, as I said, I would like to see Bolden play more. I don't think Coach K is infallible. He is certainly human and capable of making mistakes. I tend to think that when he has a long time, and multiple chances to think about something (such as playing time) he will make a far better informed decision than I can as a reactionary fan. Do I think Bolden especially should play more? Yes. Am I probably wrong? We will never know, but there is one hall of fame coach who has won approaching 1100 games who gets to make the call. I've decided to trust his decision.
By the way, I think he clearly made a mistake against NC State when we had 4 guys in the paint (State only had the shooter) and on a missed FT at the end of the game had NO plan for how to get a shot attempt other than, I guess, "whoever gets it make a play."
When a guy doesn't play much, each and every game, there is a reason for it. And it is almost surely a competitive reason and not some personal, petty one. You don't win as much for as long as Coach K has by doing that.