SIAP: Cincinnati was 4th in total plays this year. Kentucky was 107th

May 6, 2002
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The problem is that we don't look to run a hurry up style offense that would benefit us with less talent. At least not with Coach Stoops here. Will he fully turn over the offense to Gran to let him do that? He doesn't seem to like to keep up the uptempo through more then a half. Hopefully we give up the conservative play and be aggressive all the time.
 

KY1WING

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If he's hired three spread offense coordinators who were known for running lots of plays prior to coming here and are unable to once they got here, who do you think applied the brakes?
 

sluggercatfan

Heisman
Aug 17, 2004
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This whole stoops doesn't want this style is the dumbest thing on this board. If he doesn't want to run this style then why has he hired three spread coordinators who were known for running a lot of plays? It's unbelievable. The whole argument is completely baseless and one of the dumbest things I've heard on this entire board.
Unbelievable.baseless and dumb...Really , do you not trust your own eyes ...you are the one that is wrong
 
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DaBossIsBack

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Jun 28, 2013
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Unbelievable.baseless and dumb...Really , do you not trust your own eyes ...you are the one that is wrong
Unless you're in that huddle or in that coaches room then you have no idea that Stoops was responsible for slowing down the offense. The offense sucked because we couldn't pick up first downs, put our selves in unmanageable situations, stupid penalties, etc. You have to have more brain power than this.
 

Rickman

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Jul 18, 2005
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When I heard that Dawson didn't have plays for the TE in his offense, that was an early red flag.

Think he did a poor job of adapting to his players skill set - or lack thereof.

W a poor OL, running long developing patterns was problematic. Was pretty established under Brown that Towles played better after a QB run or 2 - yet that was not only not called, but strongly discouraged from Dawson.
 

Rickman

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Based on his tempo at UK he must have been suggesting to Holgerson that they slow it down. [winking]

Peace

I like your posts typically WC, but you are being a bit jerk-ish here. (Though I admit I am thin skinned about UK football. Pain still fresh from another disappointing year)

You are a good enough football guy to know why UK wasn't able to go tempo. And much of it was on Dawson's play calling. It simply did not fit his personnel much of the time.
 
May 6, 2002
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Then what about Brown? I bet his plays were way down when he came here. I don't think it is a coincidence. You don't let up on teams like we did after halftime all the time unless you want to.
 
Nov 29, 2015
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This whole stoops doesn't want this style is the dumbest thing on this board. If he doesn't want to run this style then why has he hired three spread coordinators who were known for running a lot of plays? It's unbelievable. The whole argument is completely baseless and one of the dumbest things I've heard on this entire board.
Why did these coordinators numbers of called plays drastically decrease under stoops? Coincidence or maybe stoops has something to do with it? Probably just a coincidence you're right man.
 

zcats

Heisman
May 29, 2001
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Dawson's reluctance to use the QB run especially early in the year coupled with his tendency not to use the TE gave opposing LB's a big advantage. We were a pretty easy offense to defend after our tendencies and weaknesses were made clear. Dawson really didn't adjust adequately.
 

DaBossIsBack

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Why did these coordinators numbers of called plays dramatically decrease under stoops? Coincidence or maybe stoops has something to do with it? Probably just a coincidence you're right man.
You're not very good at this are you? There are numerous possibilities and truthfully it's probably a combination of several factors. To say that it is Stoops and only Stoops when he continues to hire the same style of coordinator is borderline retarded.
 

DACats86

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Jan 7, 2003
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Then what about Brown? I bet his plays were way down when he came here. I don't think it is a coincidence. You don't let up on teams like we did after halftime all the time unless you want to.
Wait, what?! Read that again and let me know if that says what you wanted it to say.
 

BlueRaider22

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Sep 24, 2003
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JR recently said that he spoke to members of the staff about Stoops interfering and forcing the offense. He said that the rumors that Stoops has been interfering are vastly overblown.

In other words, HE AINT.

The reason we haven't called more plays is 2 fold:
-we can't execute the plays we do call
-we can't execute up-tempo.

Look at Texas A&M. They want to play up-tempo.....Sumlin has don't it every yr and so has all of his OC's. But their personnel can't run it this yr, so they haven't gone up-tempo this yr.

We haven't gone up-tempo because we couldn't. Faster pace can help an offense if they can execute it. It makes everything worse if they can't execute.
 
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You're not very good at this are you? There are numerous possibilities and truthfully it's probably a combination of several factors. To say that it is Stoops and only Stoops when he continues to hire the same style of coordinator is borderline retarded.
To say he had nothing to with it at all when there's a common trend with these spread OCs is absolutely moronic. You're telling me these coordinators voluntarily went into slow the game down mode and go conservative after halftime every game when there resumes suggest they would never do such? Then to say stoops didn't have much to do with it. Is pretty much the dumbest thing I've read on this board in weeks. Stoops is the boss. If he tells OC to go conservative, that's what they'll do. And from what I saw on the field. Game plans drastically changed after halftime during games in which we were winning. These OCs didnt ever do that at there previous stops. So yea you're pretty much a confirmed idiot.
 
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JR recently said that he spoke to members of the staff about Stoops interfering and forcing the offense. He said that the rumors that Stoops has been interfering are vastly overblown.

In other words, HE AINT.

The reason we haven't called more plays is 2 fold:
-we can't execute the plays we do call
-we can't execute up-tempo.

Look at Texas A&M. They want to play up-tempo.....Sumlin has don't it every yr and so has all of his OC's. But their personnel can't run it this yr, so they haven't gone up-tempo this yr.

We haven't gone up-tempo because we couldn't. Faster pace can help an offense if they can execute it. It makes everything worse if they can't execute.
Yes because current staff members are obviously going to throw the guy that employs them under the bus...... Riiiiigggghhhhtttt. Gotcha.
 

BlueRaider22

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^not to mention it's downright illogical. And flies in the face in the conversations I've had with members of the staff.
 

DaBossIsBack

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To say he had nothing to with it at all when there's a common trend with these spread OCs is absolutely moronic. You're telling me these coordinators voluntarily went into slow the game down mode and go conservative after halftime every game when there resumes suggest they would never do such? Then to say stoops didn't have much to do with it. Is pretty much the dumbest thing I've read on this board in weeks. Stoops is the boss. If he tells OC to go conservative, that's what they'll do. And from what I saw on the field. Game plans drastically changed after halftime during games in which we were winning. These OCs didnt ever do that at there previous stops. So yea you're pretty much a confirmed idiot.
He keeps hiring spread coordinators. Let me repeat. He keeps hiring spread coordinators. If stoops wanted to control the clock and play conservative then he would hire a coordinator that does that. It's starts there and ends there. Everything you are suggesting is conjecture and nothing more. It's baseless and all you are doing is assuming. The logic in this situation tells us that Stoops wants to run a high powered offense because that's what he keeps hiring. My effin God. Please do us a favor and stop posting.
 

3kidsandme

Heisman
Jan 12, 2013
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Why did these coordinators numbers of called plays drastically decrease under stoops? Coincidence or maybe stoops has something to do with it? Probably just a coincidence you're right man.
Please people use common sense not agendas. Brown had what 6 or 7 scholarship wr with 5 being true frosh and a run first qb you can't go uptempo with no depth or experience. Hear 2 offense got better but was still full of true freshman hard to go tempo when these guys dont know the plays or have the conditioning. Year 3 Dawson had the most 3 and outs in the sec once again can't go uptempo when you can't get first downs. It is not Stoops as you wanna suggest Wildcard it's common sense that we have not had the personnel.
 

WildCard

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May 29, 2001
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I like your posts typically WC, but you are being a bit jerk-ish here. (Though I admit I am thin skinned about UK football. Pain still fresh from another disappointing year)

You are a good enough football guy to know why UK wasn't able to go tempo. And much of it was on Dawson's play calling. It simply did not fit his personnel much of the time.
Well, thanks. I try not be a jerk but I guess sometimes it just spills out. [laughing] But that said I think there was a strong expectation that UK would operate at a faster tempo that what they did.

I'm not sure personnel was the reason UK did not operate at faster tempo. I think fast tempo is first and foremost a mentality to do so and Dawson seemingly came from that offensive style. But I'm not sure the defensive minded CMS wants to play that way. OTOH, while coming up on the defensive side Tubbs has always been a more wide open guy as HC.

A fast pace does put pressure on your defense and Cincy could not stop a toilet. I was critical of how much UK ran Towles in 2014 but it did show he was very capable of running some read option which I believe, for most teams, is the real key to a "fast paste" offense. Just run up to the line, set and you have 2 or 3 options built into a single play. But there are exceptions. Cincy was not a read option team with Kiel who had less than 100 rushes in 2 years as QB and they cranked off a lot of plays.

Peace
 

KY1WING

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Sep 15, 2005
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Just a general football question - if you are a head coach who wants to run up tempo (as some have suggested here) at what point do you say we can't do this (for whatever reason) and go to ball control? Is that determined pre-season, pre-game, during game decision?
 
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Rickman

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KY1wing,
That is what happened w UK trying to run "fast paste" as WC said. (Never fails to make me laugh!)

CMS may be willing to have the O go fast, but not if we can't sustain drives. Fast 3 and outs are death to a D.

WC - that is why I said personnel + Dawson's play calling. He wanted much more deep passing routes that took time to develop. UKs OL could not block well enough. Led to too many 3 and outs, so they had to go slower. My opinion at least.
 
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hmt5000

Heisman
Aug 29, 2009
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Ull game we got doubled up on T O P. I think stoops reeled in Dawson after that because a bowl game was the goal. If we could of strung together some drives at any point he would of probably sped up some.
 

jauk11

Heisman
Dec 6, 2006
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Well, thanks. I try not be a jerk but I guess sometimes it just spills out. [laughing] But that said I think there was a strong expectation that UK would operate at a faster tempo that what they did.

I'm not sure personnel was the reason UK did not operate at faster tempo. I think fast tempo is first and foremost a mentality to do so and Dawson seemingly came from that offensive style. But I'm not sure the defensive minded CMS wants to play that way. OTOH, while coming up on the defensive side Tubbs has always been a more wide open guy as HC.

A fast pace does put pressure on your defense and Cincy could not stop a toilet. I was critical of how much UK ran Towles in 2014 but it did show he was very capable of running some read option which I believe, for most teams, is the real key to a "fast paste" offense. Just run up to the line, set and you have 2 or 3 options built into a single play. But there are exceptions. Cincy was not a read option team with Kiel who had less than 100 rushes in 2 years as QB and they cranked off a lot of plays.

Peace

I think the "fast paste" offense was known in some circles as the "instant spaghetti" offense. But maybe only in the Italian community.

And I think Towles was one of our best weapons as a runner, a lot faster than most realize with the fastest shuttle time in the Elite 22 he attended, which included a 5' 10" athlete playing QB. From two of the tackles he made on DBs that intercepted his passes (one an All American he manhandled, the other he knocked winding, literally) he could have played linebacker, and would have made an excellent TE, unfortunately his measurables were too good to consider that------or maybe not, but I still think he gets drafted as a QB just on his measurables and arm, certainly gets a shot as a free agent.

But then I thought Couch was a very good runner also, although I can see not exposing him to too many carries. Couch was also quite an athlete, IIRC he averaged about 28 PPG in basketball, maybe in his junior year of high school.

A running QB in a defense spread out by the threat of a pass and with an extra blocker is a big weapon, just ask BP. Kelly just had a 43 yard scamper vs Oklahoma State, (Then a TD pass to Treadwell, who is a GREAT target), but he should have scored if he had stopped dead and used his two blockers. I think not using Towles as a runner was a huge mistake, and he was big enough to take some punishment, probably not as much there as having to take hits while also trying to throw the ball.
 
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BlueRaider22

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We were slow the entire year. Had execution problems the entire yr. Struggled to pass the entire yr. I don't understand why some of y'all are saying it's all Stoops. As if Stoops was sitting back saying, "Hey we're down 30 to Miss St (or UT) let's slow it down even more."

The amount of Stoops interference was vastly overblown. He certainly had some problems last yr but getting in Dawson's way was not one of them. Dawson's problems were personnel and Dawson.
 

Rickman

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Jauk - he also seemed to settle into the game after some runs. Less happy feet that hurt his accuracy.

Agree taking that out of the playbook was a mistake. Don't want 15 runs a game, but 5-6 would have been good.
 
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CATFANFOLIFE87

Heisman
Apr 8, 2008
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If you aren't executing what sense does it make to go fast? Are you shooting for the lowest TOP possible? That sounds counterproductive if you ask me. First you have to be able to execute the plays that you run with consistency. Then you have to rep them hundreds of times to be able to speed them up. The team then has to adjust to lining up quickly, executing, then lining up quickly with little to no time to catch your breath. It takes a few years of practice with continuity in the coaching staff and the offense before it's possible to play like that. Switching coordinators 3 times and changing your QB makes it tough to speed up
 
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CATFANFOLIFE87

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Apr 8, 2008
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Lol you're an ******* with no common sense how nice. My 'conjecture' was based on the FACTS that his 2 spread OCs ran way less plays than they were supposed to. If you watched the games and saw how conservative the play calling got once we had the lead and watched how we tried our best to dwindle the clock down, that's not the way these coordinators were brought up. Neal brown has never coached that way, Dawson was new to the gig but I highly doubt since he was a spread coordinator that his coaching philosophy had anything to do with being conservative. Stoops on the other hand is a very conservative football mind. So why are these spread coordinators all of a sudden out of nowhere becoming so conservative? Did they just one day wake up and decide to change their philosophy on the sport they've coached their whole lives? Or did stoops instill a little bit of his philosophy into their game plan? I'll let you decide.

You can call it conjecture if you want but to me it's pointing out the absolutely obvious using simple logic with the facts at hand. You're an absolute idiot if you want to believe that if stoops tells a coordinator to go conservative, that they're not going to do what their employer tells them to do. Yes he does keep hiring spread coordinators, I'll give you that for whatever that's worth? But am I going to sit here and pretend he doesn't interfere with the pass happy offenses these OCs like to run? I mean there's gotta be a reason these offenses run the ball way more than they've ever had in their entire careers once arriving here. And you keep reiterating the fact stoops keeps hiring spread coordinators so that's the kind of offense he wants? I don't believe for an effing second that stoops has a clue what he's doing right now outside of recruiting.

As far as in game coaching goes I think the man is as clueless as the sport has ever seen. So to use that as your evidence, to me, is completely irrelevant because I quite frankly don't know what the hell stoops wants out of an offense. Did you see an offensive identity this year? Yea me neither. Unless taking a lead then going conservative is an identity then sure I'll let you have that one. None of these OCs coach that way. Were we supposed to have a damn good offense this year? That's what the coaches told us. Why during the beginning of the year did we go with the deep ball on a fairly consistent basis, why is it by midseason that wasn't even an option? I guess these OCs just changed their philosophies over night as you say. GD moron right here. To think people can't use simple facts to come up with real conclusions by calling it conjecture then you're going to live a very clueless life. If everybody lived life like this then there would never be crimes solved and murder would almost be legal because motives are all 'conjecture'. For example say a wife kills her husband for insurance purposes so she can collect a big life insurance check or will money or what have you, the prosecutor can't use the motive of her wanting her husbands money as evidence because it's conjecture? Please get real for only a second, look in the mirror, and realize how much of an idiot you are. And it's funny because you actually think you're all knowing when you type. Comical.
How old are you and have you ever played football? My guess is 17 and no. If you can't see the many obvious reasons why we haven't been able to play as fast as Stoops wants to then your knowledge of the game is remedial at best. Texas Tech had Mike Leach who ran the same offense as Brown so when Brown got there the hurry up offense was already in the DNA of the players there. West Virginia has ran a spread hurry up offense for just as long. It takes depth, years of practice, consistency, continuity, and chemistry to run that type of offense. None of which are established here yet. Our defense gets killed in the 4th quarter as it is we'd get murdered every week in the SEC playing that pace with as many 3 and outs as we'd have. Until the offense is efficient enough to play with that pace AND move the ball/use some clock we can't do it
 
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How old are you and have you ever played football? My guess is 17 and no. If you can't see the many obvious reasons why we haven't been able to play as fast as Stoops wants to then your knowledge of the game is remedial at best. Texas Tech had Mike Leach who ran the same offense as Brown so when Brown got there the hurry up offense was already in the DNA of the players there. West Virginia has ran a spread hurry up offense for just as long. It takes depth, years of practice, consistency, continuity, and chemistry to run that type of offense. None of which are established here yet
What's the excuse for this season though? Weren't we supposed to have a very good uptempo offense this year? Have I ever played football? Lol yea care to see my state championship ring as a starting defensive end? Jesus man. I'd be willing to bet I know way more about the game than you, exponentially more at that.
 

CATFANFOLIFE87

Heisman
Apr 8, 2008
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What's the excuse for this season though? Weren't we supposed to have a very good uptempo offense this year? Have I ever played football? Lol yea care to see my state championship ring as a starting defensive end? Jesus man. I'd be willing to bet I know way more about the game than you, exponentially more at that.
The team had to learn an entirely new offense this past season and will have to again for the 3rd time in 4 years. We had an inept QB and spent the entire spring and fall splitting QB reps because Towles couldn't seperate himself. There is a laundry list of reasons why it was going to be tough to play fast and almost none why it should've happened as you expected

If you're so smart why are all of your posts personal attacks instead of intelligently arguing the finer points of the sport? It either shows a lack of knowledge, maturity, or both. I played for 9 years and 4 of them were under Bob Redman. I know a thing or two about football