Painter, another big man? Mosley, a versatile guard with a good body? Jackson, another sparkplug? Grad transfer? Hold the spot?
What do we think?
What do we think?
So, who gets the last 2016 slot?
- Thread starter rwhitney014
- Start date
I would say a Grad Transfer as well unless an offer is accepted by a 5* or something amazing like that... 
Here are the outstanding offers. Simpson is highest ranked, but would CC bring in a player to compete with Brown? I think CC respects Brown's skills a bunch. But no bad choices here.
Wonder why the class should be done with an available scholarship?
list
G Xavier Simpson Lima, OhioLima Senior 5'11" 165 N/A 4 stars N/A N/A
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G Jagan Mosely Jersey City, New JerseySt. Anthony 6'2" 200 N/A 3 stars N/A N/A
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F Dylan Painter Hershey, PennsylvaniaHershey 6'10" 215 N/A N/A N/A
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F Quinton Rose Rochester, New YorkBishop Kearney 6'5" 160 N/A 3 stars N/A N/A
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G Quentin Jackson Martinsville, VirginiaCarlisle School 6'3" 165 N/A 3 stars N/A N/A
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G Christian Terrell Sacramento, CaliforniaSacramento 6'4" N/A N/A 3 stars N/A N/A
list
Because there is no compelling need and no compelling prospect likely to be both available and interested. Also, pocketing the schollie gives Collins the flexibility to take a 5th year transfer in 2016 and still have 3 schollies for 2017. Spend it on a 2016 freshman and you have no 2016 5th year transfer option and just 2 schollies for 2017.
Of the players you list, Simpson for sure no longer has any interest in NU, and with Brown NU has no interest in him. Terrell does not have an offer, and the rest have us outside their top 2-3, and/or don't fill a need (post Brown and Benson) and/or aren't "must take" type prospects. Remember, we came in late for most of them based on their summer AAU performances.
I like pocketing this schollie. 12 solid roster positions is enough to run the program and get through the season. Having a 5th year option for next year is wise. And if we get an early priority 2017 commit from a local guy like Justin Smith, Collins will have no problem signing 2 more top prospects in that class. Aside from attention grabbing success on the floor this year, I really believe Justin Smith is the next key piece to Collins achieving what he set out to do when he committed all of his considerable energy and abilities to Northwestern.
GOUNUII
My preference is to get four-year instead of one-year players (though I accept one-and-dones, too.) Assuming the players on Fig's list above continue continue to hold offers, I'd rather get one of them in the program.
The benefit of the fifth year player is that you have a great idea of what you'll get, whether with JVZ this year or with the nondescript Yale guy (name slips my mind) last year. The fun of any high school kid is that, depending on skills and effort and growth and luck, any one of them has the potential to be an all-time great.
It looks pretty clear that Collins is trying to save the last scholarship for 2017. He will only have 2 guys running out of eligibility then (Tap and the Incredible Hulk Sanjay) so rather than give 4 scholarships in 2016, he'll give 3 and have 3 for freshmen in 2017. This allows him to use the last scholarship in 2016 on a grad transfer, and then use it again in 2017. Makes a lot of sense and spreads out the scholarships nicely, 3 a year and one year out of every 4 a 4th.
The issue with a 4 year player is that you're stuck with him for 4 years. If we were the type of school who cut kids loose if they're not performing, I'd say take a 4 year player and maybe he's the kid who works hard, constantly improves, and you're happy you took him. If not, you send him packing. We're not that school and I don't want to be that school.
So the answer is you be picky. You take chances. You go after guys that may be a waste of time because your chances with him are slim. Maybe you pull a miracle and get another stud into the class. If not, you take the 5th year transfer and save the scholarship for next year.
Uh, do Mike Turner, Cher Ajou, Kale Abrahamson and Johnny Vassar ring a bell? Maybe they weren't sent packing, but they were given honest assessments of their performance and potential and they elected to move on. So hard to see how NU would be "stuck" with someone who doesn't fit.
Turner was off the team because wasn't trying. Notice he didn't transfer anywhere. He just stopped playing. After playing basketball like it's a job for years, burnout happens. This wasn't Collins running out a kid because he wasn't good.
Kale was a fit for Carmody's offense, but not Collins. Collins gave him the roll of standing in the corner and shooting 3s. Kale wasn't happy with that and preferred to transfer. This is far different than recruiting a kid, recruiting over him and sending him packing.
Vassar has transferred 6 times in the last 5 years. Not sure what this deal was, but we could probably use another PG and don't we have a roster spot open?
So my point is, none of them clogged up the roster. This is different than was the case under previous administrations.
That said, I like the idea of a 5th year at this time because it helps to balance out recruiting classes. Having three scholarships available as CCC and the program are hitting stride is better than only having two. We have a fairly balanced group right now with backup centers, PFs and PGs so no real needs right now. First time I can say that. I like the 5th year because it gives a full roster while allowing better balancing of recruiting cycle and still allows getting a top frosh next year. Just do not see anyone worth using a 4 year scholarship on at this point
THat said, going forward, I would rather have 4 year guys. But for now class balance is more important.
My bad. I thought this was the "don't throw stones at Tom Creen because Collins had transfers too" type of post. Sorry for misinterpretting it.
I liked Coach Carmody a lot. But I get the feeling that the fires to win burn a lot hotter for Collins. I don't recall any of BC's team working out with Navy Seals or posting videos of 300# squats. Love the physical toughness he seems to be demanding from his teams. And I have no problem with guys who don't buy-in leaving.
I think Ajou and Turner were kinda clogging the roster, just because they were both terrible. Maybe not in the short term, but longer term we've put those scholarships to better use basketball-wise.
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The growing prevalence of 5th year transfers around the nation (and in our own program - 3 in the last four seasons!) raises a thought....what if we got 3 players per class just about every year, which leads to a total of 12 on the roster, and then got a 5th year guy just about every year to fill out that 13th schollie?
I'm not sure if that makes sense or what the downsides could be, but I could totally see it happening on more than just an immediate basis.
I'm not sure if that makes sense or what the downsides could be, but I could totally see it happening on more than just an immediate basis.
First, we might get to a point that we RS someone like a center that takes time to develop, or because of injury and that would take the extra scholarship. Then, for the 5th year to be brought in, they have to be a beneficial addition. As we go on with better recruiting, that is less likely. But for now, they are a healthy addition as we can use additional talent as specific positions (C up to now. PF in the past) And they help to balance out the classes. I see the a great advantage of the 5th year to the program now but I see it less important in a couple years.
Ajou was never going to play, but I thought Turner had some talent. He seemed to be a quick jumper and had some athletic talent. I would've liked to have seen what he would've done during his career. Honestly, I think if he stuck with it, he would've been a much better player for us than Cerina or Kriesberg. Turner would've played at least a 6-10 minute a night roll at center and I think could've gotten some time at the 4 with Olah in the game. That could've produced some mismatches.
Actually after Turner's freshman year, I thought he was going to be the man and Olah was going to be mediocre, so maybe I don't know anything. I also thought after their freshman years that Jeff Ryan was going to be a stud and Kevin Coble was going to be average so maybe I'm bad at this.
A lot has to do with how much effort they are willing to put in. Turner was always supposed to be a 4 but saw himself as a 3 and never embraced the 4 spot. He had athleticism but never put it to use in the way the coaches wanted. We had plenty of 3s and he was far down the list but we had no 4s so that was where the opportunity was.
Go back and look at Turner's rebounding numbers per minute as a 4 that season. He didn't hardly rebound at all, didn't play physical, and didn't have the ball-handling skills or shooting skills of a wing. That said, I'm still surprised he didn't end up playing SOMEWHERE. He had some athleticism. Ajou, good on him, found a home at Seton Hall.
Just went through the big ten season trying to jog my memory... turns out I can't find a game to back up my thoughts on Turner. Memory must be fading. I probably should stop drinking.
I just wanted to jump on the bandwagon and applaud the honesty of this statement. Too often, it's been an incredibly rare thing out here. I'll leave it at that.
a) Shakes, I never thought Turner would be "the man." But I agree with you that he showed something early that he could be a reasonable contributor.
b) To continue the idea of players who never reached first-view impressions, I'd like to offer Vince Scott. To this day, I think his best game - far and away - was his first game against future first round pick, David Harrison. He was aggressive and vocal on defense and we never saw that again.
B. The entirety of Bill Carmody centers would qualify. I guess Travares would be the exception.
When I was in seventh grade, we had a mile run in gym class. I was not a good distance runner, and I knew I would be one of the worst in the class, but I wanted at least one moment of glory. So I sprinted at the beginning and totally led the pack! I ended up pretty much in last place. It was not a good strategy, but it was fun while it lasted.
Anyway, if we got a fourth recruit right now, we'd probably be #1 in the nation in recruiting for a little while (I think only three or four teams currently have even three commitments, and we'd be the first with four), and that would be really cool, at least briefly.
But like in seventh grade, that glory would not last long. Let's stay the course and save that schollie for when we really need it.
Anyway, if we got a fourth recruit right now, we'd probably be #1 in the nation in recruiting for a little while (I think only three or four teams currently have even three commitments, and we'd be the first with four), and that would be really cool, at least briefly.
But like in seventh grade, that glory would not last long. Let's stay the course and save that schollie for when we really need it.
What NU can use is a penetrating SG. Hopefully, Scottie Lindsey or maybe Jordan Ash has those skills but I have not seen those skills yet. When Tre Demps graduates, NU will need more guards to beat their man off the dribble and penetrate and then find open shooters like Falzon, McIntosh, Taphorn or Lindsey who can hit the open three.
We recruited Lindsey with a broken leg and recovery from ACLs are pretty good so it would seem that is unlikely as a reason we are not involved. Could be that CCC wanted three guys this year and needs for a second PG ( with Vassar departure) and bigs took precedence. Or it could be grades.
Taking this in a slightly different direction, we've also never really had to worry about 5th year transfers in the other direction (I can only think of one time that we even discussed it since they implemented the rule). As the program builds, we might also be losing people in the other direction? I'm not necessarily saying people will want to leave, but one of the conditions that is probably necessary to be a 5th year transfer is that you have enough talent and ability that you could go elsewhere and fill a need for a year. If our talent level is improving, it seems that this is at least somewhat more likely to happen.
You mean like Tre Demps leaving to play at Indiana as Tom Creen alluded to...
[QUOTE="shakes3858, post: 54324, member: 936"]You mean like Tre Demps leaving to play at Indiana as Tom Creen alluded to...[/QUOTE]
Didn't hear about that, Shakes. Where did that come from? Do you have a link to something on this?
Didn't hear about that, Shakes. Where did that come from? Do you have a link to something on this?