It doesn't seem that long ago that these two wrestlers were considered to be equals and evenly matched. Why is Lee light years better than Fix now? Lee's average time on the mat this year is 3:11. Fix manages regular decisions against unranked opponents. Fix is about to be 25 years old. Why is he not more dominant?
Spencer Lee vs Daton Fix
- Thread starter OAMC99
- Start date
Spencer has always been better than Daton at folkstyle. The real comp between them has been in freestyle.
Daton took 4th at Super32 one year. One of his losses in that tourney was to Luke Karam, a good, but not elite wrestler. Lee won Super32 & the Ironman in HS. Dominated really.
The big difference is mat wrestling. Lee has an arm bar & tilt series. There's a video on YouTube that covers his technique. He's also incredibly strong for a 125. There's another video of him training with a 141. Lee is not only stronger P4P, he's stronger period. Sebastian Rivera said the first time he went on bottom against Lee, he couldn't even move because of the strength & technique.
Daton took 4th at Super32 one year. One of his losses in that tourney was to Luke Karam, a good, but not elite wrestler. Lee won Super32 & the Ironman in HS. Dominated really.
The big difference is mat wrestling. Lee has an arm bar & tilt series. There's a video on YouTube that covers his technique. He's also incredibly strong for a 125. There's another video of him training with a 141. Lee is not only stronger P4P, he's stronger period. Sebastian Rivera said the first time he went on bottom against Lee, he couldn't even move because of the strength & technique.
Lee hasn’t had the elite wrestlers at his weight like Fix has had with Suriano and RBY. Lees style is also setup for folk. He is a turner and Daton isn’t. The stats show Daton has been very dominant even if there are times he doesn’t light up the scoreboard. He has had very few matches where he has been in any trouble.
He has a 60% bonus rate at the national tournament. In the last 10 years, there is one wrestler in college that has been better.
And it isn’t even being a homer to point out that Daton was cheated out of that first title.
Saying all that, Daton needs to get a NC.
He has a 60% bonus rate at the national tournament. In the last 10 years, there is one wrestler in college that has been better.
And it isn’t even being a homer to point out that Daton was cheated out of that first title.
Saying all that, Daton needs to get a NC.
You are right he did. Suriano was down at 125 who many thought was to a big of pull for him but then he pulled back down his last year for Michigan
I might not be following you correctly, but this doesn't seem right...
According to WrestleStat, Daton has bonus-ed in 7 out of 15 matches at NCAAs. That's 46.7%. Over the last 10 years, several guys had a higher bonus percentage. Alex Dieringer was 13/21 or 61.9%.
Dynasty Defined posted that stat on Twitter. I’m wondering if he is using only his wins? 7 of his 12 NCAA wins have been bonus point wins.
@leecothran
Ahh, I didn't realize you got that from Lee. He can clarify.
BTW, if you didn't count the x I made out in baseball, I have the highest batting average ever.
Well dang y’all can complain about anything here. Now we have to have a thread about how our top guy isn’t putting up points compared to a Hodge winner with a completely different skillset? Do y’all even enjoy watching wrestling? Sure I wish Daton was pinning more but good lord. How many times has he been taken down or called for stalling this season. He’s an animal on the mat. Lee is a fantastic wrestler, one of the greatest ever and super fun to watch.
Go read the Hawkeye board. According to them Spencer Lee is the GOAT. There was a guy last year at 285 that is/was better than him. Nobody was pinning/putting Gable on his back. What did he lose in college? One match?
If Lee wins the Hodge again this year and joins Cael Sanderson as the only 3 time winners then he’s in the conversation. At least over the past 30 years. He’s certainly one of the best college wrestlers in the last 30 plus years.
Curious. If he is a 3 time Hodge award winner which wrestlers would you argue had better college careers?
I can’t argue a 3 time Hodge winner. Gable Steveson was as dominant of wrestler as we have seen in 30 years. He lost 2 matches as a true freshman. 3-1-1. Could have come back and cake walked through another title. Kyle Dake won it at 4 weights. Cael Sanderson. Kyle Snyder, Zain Retherford. Logan Steiber won 4*, David Taylor. Spencer is the only one I’ve seen locked up in a cradle and stuck in person. One of his Hodge Trophies was the COVID year. The other he shared with Gable, who I think was better. So he’s got 5 years to win 3. He is a stud though who is fun to watch wrestle. I enjoy watching just to see if someone can test his gas tank. Most can’t make it that far.
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He’ll always be the first also. I’m not sure I can even tell you everyone off the top of my head that have won 4.
Cael, Pat, Steiber, Dake?
Clearly he was screwed out of the first one but I thought he got screwed out of the second one as well. Fix is just a different type of wrestler and my hope is that there is something that they are working on as a way to counter RBY's length advantage. There are many things to complain about but Fix is not one of them. I think we take him for granted since he hasn't won a title yet. Hopefully this is his year.
Lee dominates from the top position, but he can be taken down. I think the Purdue guy got 2 takedowns. Picc took him down twice in 1 period.
That's why a freestyle match would be so interesting. Daton is very good with underhooks and he also has an elite high crotch. He can score from exposures, step outs, and passivity points (RBY would have to wrestle Daton differently in freestyle). Daton also has a great gut wrench (Spencer too). I hope we get to see it.
That's why a freestyle match would be so interesting. Daton is very good with underhooks and he also has an elite high crotch. He can score from exposures, step outs, and passivity points (RBY would have to wrestle Daton differently in freestyle). Daton also has a great gut wrench (Spencer too). I hope we get to see it.
In three career finals matches, Fix has zero takedowns. So it's hard to say he's been screwed over.
His finals against Suriano is the only one where he was screwed.
In a Ricky Bobby sense, you are correct.
A rare few are locks to make the finals every time they step on the mat. Lee and Fix are among that group.
Your statement was “light years”. Lee is not light years ahead of Fix.
GOAT talk is about career accomplishments, so the 4 timers often head the list. Then dominance sometimes factors in (bonus points).
Here's a different question though. If everyone was granted 1 more year of eligibility, who do you think would have been most likely to win if they had returned? For example would Gable Steveson or Spencer Lee be considered the bigger lock this year?
Cael Sanderson would probably have faced Damion Hahn in 2003. Kyle Dake would probably have faced David Taylor again in 2014. Logan Stieber would probably have faced Dean Heil in 2016. Not sure who Pat Smith would have faced. But there are others. Jordan Burroughs was only a 2 timer, but he would have been the returning World champ when David Taylor won in 2012. John Smith would have been a returning Olympic champ. Could anyone have touched him?
What does that list look like, in order from most likely to repeat?
Here's a different question though. If everyone was granted 1 more year of eligibility, who do you think would have been most likely to win if they had returned? For example would Gable Steveson or Spencer Lee be considered the bigger lock this year?
Cael Sanderson would probably have faced Damion Hahn in 2003. Kyle Dake would probably have faced David Taylor again in 2014. Logan Stieber would probably have faced Dean Heil in 2016. Not sure who Pat Smith would have faced. But there are others. Jordan Burroughs was only a 2 timer, but he would have been the returning World champ when David Taylor won in 2012. John Smith would have been a returning Olympic champ. Could anyone have touched him?
What does that list look like, in order from most likely to repeat?
This year Gable a heavier favorite than Lee. I don’t see anyone tossing Gable to his back like we just saw with Spencer Lee.
Lee seems to have the strength of Anthony Robles. 125 hasn’t had anyone other than Suriano that could really keep Lee from working his top game.
Dake, Taylor, and Burroughs all a toss up.
Pat and John I don’t see losing. Same with Cael.
Steiber still doesn’t count because JO had the takedown to beat him.
Lee seems to have the strength of Anthony Robles. 125 hasn’t had anyone other than Suriano that could really keep Lee from working his top game.
Dake, Taylor, and Burroughs all a toss up.
Pat and John I don’t see losing. Same with Cael.
Steiber still doesn’t count because JO had the takedown to beat him.
If they wrestle today, Fix wins in both styles at any weight. Spencer hasn't wrestled anybody as good as Fix since 2019.
Daton has wrestled in 15 matches at NCAA tournaments and has won 60% of those matches by bonus point victories.
Spencer Lee is the only wrestler with more bonus point victories at NCAAs over the last 5 years. 73%.
Spencer Lee and Jason Nolf are the only two with more over the last 10 years. 75%.
This right here. There are several things to complain about... Daton is not one of them. He wins. He scores bonus points. He has a world silver medal while wrestling at OSU. He's an all time great wrestler at Oklahoma State and still has a great chance to win two NCAA titles and become an Olympic champ.
Where are you getting this from?
WrestleStat shows he has 7 bonus point wins in 15 matches, that's a 46.7% bonus rate.
Lee just pinned the #6 kid in the country from UW for his 6th straight pin. Kid is amazing
Based on today’s result, this whole ruse seemed to work…
Let S-talk Fix again before each dual and see how he responds
Let S-talk Fix again before each dual and see how he responds