Spotlight and corruption/abuse in the church

[KingOfBBN]

"Spotlight" is a fantastic film if you haven't watched it yet. It covers the Boston Globe's investigation into the corruption of the child abuse in the Catholic Church where priests get moved around instead of facing actual accountability.

That in itself is no secret. However, it shed a light on corruption in the church, which is absolutely rampant everywhere and it showed how reluctant people were to help the journalists with the truth. Many people just ignore it because of pastor/priest worship or they switch off their brains and just listen to the sermon and check off the box.

Now, I don't want this to spiral into a "Does God exist or not" thread (I know that's way too much to ask) because I believe in God, however, I have now been to multiple churches where financial abuse is out of control and I have family that have been affected by sexual abuse.

Why do people allow this BS? How can people continue to tithe when they see pastors living like rockstars? How can people turn off their brains to sexual abuse and think church is above corruption? It's a massive problem. Maybe not in the small towns as much but next time, take a look at how much money churches piss away on vanity projects or the pastor's family BS.

Makes me sick. Zero accountability. I'm to the point that I think the church should be taxed or have some type of monitoring because the self monitoring is obviously not working.

 

[P.PattersonISwalkingthruthatdoor]

*bookmarked for toilet reading tomorrow at work*

 

[KingOfBBN]

Oh, this one should be good. I hope it doesn't turn into a pissing contest but an actual decent convo about a noteworthy topic.

This article kind of touches on the abuse in that specific church system (globally).
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/26/calvary-chapel-s-tangled-web.html

Read up on guys like Mark Driscoll and his rampant financial abuse (and illegal activity) at Mars Hill.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...rs-hill-megachuch-like-a-crime-syndicate.html

Or this sack of shat prosperity gospel preacher asking for a $60 million dollar jet and getting it.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/13/living/creflo-dollar-jet-feat/

This site is ran by a former step son of a preacher in the Calvary Chapel system who was sexually abused by the man and revealed the inner workings/financial abuse that comes with being a preacher in the system. He also, has shown how unwilling anyone is to listen to any claims that doesn't go along with portraying pastors as saints.

http://calvarychapelabuse.com/wordpress/

For about three years now, identifying church corruption has been kind of a personal hobby of mine. It's just messed up how many opportunistic wolves hide in that system and take advantage of folks and then everyone just has their blinders on.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

I have never been affiliated with churches as big as the ones you mentioned. All of the ones I know or attend are in no way, shape, or form like that.
I think it's unfair to lump them all in this category and act as if they are all money grubbing hypocrites.
You will get a lot of posts in this thread that will say all churches and Christians are like this and that only the ignorant and unlearned would fall for the "fairy tale" of Christianity.
Congratulations.
There are a lot of churches that are nothing like what you said. Not even close. Of course that doesn't fit into your agenda.

 

[KingOfBBN]

I have never been affiliated with churches as big as the ones you mentioned. All of the ones I know or attend are in no way, shape, or form like that.
I think it's unfair to lump them all in this category and act as if they are all money grubbing hypocrites.
You will get a lot of posts in this thread that will say all churches and Christians are like this and that only the ignorant and unlearned would fall for the "fairy tale" of Christianity.
Congratulations.
There are a lot of churches that are nothing like what you said. Not even close. Of course that doesn't fit into your agenda.

This isn't a reflection on the actual gospel, all Christians or God. It's about the lack of accountability in the church, people putting men on pedestals, the concept of tithing and the willingness to overlook abuse.

I grew up in a small Eastern Kentucky town and that's all I knew until I moved away after high school. What I'm describing is nothing like what I grew up around but the majority of the country is not small towns and those offering plates in churches in big cities get crazy amounts of cash that isn't taxed.

I don't think pastors should be bringing in six figures, nor setting up dynasties by giving their kids or son-in-laws positions and naming them as their successors (this even happens in Kentucky towns) and I think there's a massive amount of sick people that hide in the church to take advantage of folks (sexual predators and financial abusers) because Christians usually want to believe the best in people especially if they're at church.

 

[MegaBlue05]

I was raised VERY Catholic. I'm talking mass every Sunday, every holy day, Sunday school, youth group, etc., etc., etc. All four of my grandparents were super Catholic as well.

The little boys scandal is what made me quit. I won't get into my thoughts on religion because it's not the spirit of the thread. But, the way the Vatican handled the scandal by transferring those bastards instead of prosecuting them made me question taking moral advice from these people. I haven't set foot inside a Catholic church since 2001.

As for the financial stuff, I'm guessing it varies from congregation to congregation. However, it does seem some "ministries" turn into ponzi schemes to bilk the flock out of piles of cash to buy a bunch of cool **** for themselves. Especially those idiots from back in the day with the "prosperity gospel" crap. Send me seed money and God will send it back 5 bajillion fold!!!!!!

 

[JumperJack]

Small churches FTW.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

The last church I attended was in EKY a long long time ago. It started out as a small church and within a year the congregation had more than quadrupled. The preacher was fairly young (late 30s) with a young family. Shortly after the massive growth they sold their old home and bought a massive brand new home and the wife was driving a Benz. Haha About two years later he was caught with a member's daughter (21-22ish). The wife was supposedly cheating with the girl's grand father. It was beautiful. At my parents' current church the pastor and his wife have a Mercedes each and they bought their daughter a Range Rover for her 16th birthday. This is right in the heart of EKY. Snake oil has always paid well.

 

[Bill Derington]

It doesn't matter who,when, or where, people are fallible.

 

[Ron Mehico]

When you walk into the gold plated doors of the city in the heart of Europe that was made specifically for the religion, you realize how powerful and mighty the church is. Tax exempt and criticism exempt. It is and always will be the easiest way to gain power. If you've ever watched "last week tonight" they actually made a fake church and it was pretty entertaining. Anyway, you'll never win against that, it is truly a David vs Goliath fight. There are millions like Cawood who consider it an insult not only to god and jesus, but themselves and their family to question the church. Its too engrained in culture.

 

[funKYcat75]

This is at least the third time the OP has posted that description of that church. We get it.

 

[Crushgroove]

Life-long Catholic school product here. They soured me on organized religion at a very early age. I have had no use at all for the RCC in my adult life due directly to the damage it caused me as a child.

The straw that finally broke the camel's back was how the Pope and the modern RCC are in a constant state of flux and change these days with their doctrine just to keep interest in their product up and asses in pews. Doctrine that made life hell for the rest of us 20+ years ago. Friends I had in grade school in the 80's whose folks got divorced, the church ex-communicated them and kicked him out of school with no questions asked and I never saw those people again. Now, the RCC offers classes on everything from how to masturbate to single parent classes and ongoing post-divorce counseling. Sellouts. Hypocrites.

Way to ruin my morning, OP. How about some paper cuts and a spay bottle filled with rubbing alcohol while you're at it?

 

[Crushgroove]

The last church I attended was in EKY a long long time ago. It started out as a small church and within a year the congregation had more than quadrupled. The preacher was fairly young (late 30s) with a young family. Shortly after the massive growth they sold their old home and bought a massive brand new home and the wife was driving a Benz. Haha About two years later he was caught with a member's daughter (21-22ish). The wife was supposedly cheating with the girl's grand father. It was beautiful. At my parents' current church the pastor and his wife have a Mercedes each and they bought their daughter a Range Rover for her 16th birthday. This is right in the heart of EKY. Snake oil has always paid well.

This is actually a huge point of contention with a lot of Christians. Got into a shoving match with my best friend in the world (a Mormon, no less) in my living room floor, b/c I felt the pastor of a local church should be more humble than to drive a $100k car on tax-free church money. He felt a man of God could drive whatever he wanted while doing God's work and told me I as going to hell. Well, thems fightin words, don'tcha know.

 

[qwesley]

IdaCat just emailed his boss that he won't be in today.

 

[funKYcat75]

This is actually a huge point of contention with a lot of Christians. Got into a shoving match with my best friend in the world (a Mormon, no less) in my living room floor, b/c I felt the pastor of a local church should be more humble than to drive a $100k car on tax-free church money. He felt a man of God could drive whatever he wanted while doing God's work and told me I as going to hell. Well, thems fightin words, don'tcha know.

If you want to go there, then no Christian should be driving an expensive car, have a big house, live extravagantly, etc., while there are still people in need and/or non-believers out there. Just sayin' ...

 

[DaBossIsBack]

This is actually a huge point of contention with a lot of Christians. Got into a shoving match with my best friend in the world (a Mormon, no less) in my living room floor, b/c I felt the pastor of a local church should be more humble than to drive a $100k car on tax-free church money. He felt a man of God could drive whatever he wanted while doing God's work and told me I as going to hell. Well, thems fightin words, don'tcha know.

He would preach about God's favor and that just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you can't enjoy your fruits. I hate on Christianity a lot but isn't sacrifice and altruism part of the foundation?

 

[jockstrap_mcgee]

I used to attend a church in downtown LA where the pastor was a guy who quit practicing law to plant the church. They met in a rented theater and had a congregation of about 300 people. It was a mix of homeless people from Skid Row, yuppies who lived in apartments downtown, seminary students and people who googled it.
The church's books were completely open and every penny they spent on anything was made public. We left because the drive became too far, but it was a good community. One of the most truly diverse crowds I've ever seen.

People can be corrupted. The church is not something that's inherently so.

 

[TheEgyptianMagician]

It doesn't matter who,when, or where, people are fallible.

Except maybe these guys, whatever religion's variant... monks generally put their no money where their mouth is.

 

[KingOfBBN]

This is at least the third time the OP has posted that description of that church. We get it.

Second but if we can discuss where to find the best steak in Lexington 87,000 times in 8 years then this should be fine.

 

[mashburned]

I just think this is another example of the declining values of society. Greed and envy run pretty much everything. It is sick and twisted.

 

[KingOfBBN]

If you want to go there, then no Christian should be driving an expensive car, have a big house, live extravagantly, etc., while there are still people in need and/or non-believers out there. Just sayin' ...

It's quite a bit different though considering how the money is given. At our jobs, we don't use scripture to say God wants you to tithe to take care of the widows and orphans and then use the money to finance a lifestyle.

 

[funKYcat75]

Second but if we can discuss where to find the best steak in Lexington 87,000 times in 8 years then this should be fine.

I stand corrected. It is the fourth, counting this one.

You see this crap a lot in mega churches and churches who teach the prosperity gospel. If you study tithing, it was an Old Testament teaching and had nothing to do with people giving 10 percent of their cash to the church forever. When you start seeing preachers and their family use the church as their own personal bank account and living a life of luxury at the expense of the congregation, it is time to move on but too many times, people put pastors on a pedestal.

I posted sometime a year ago about an experience I had at a church where the preacher had bogus BS jobs as full time for his family like his daughter leading the worship team (only three services a week and often a volunteer job everywhere else), one son in-law who got full-time work for doing the audio and lighting for the services, and another son in-law who was just a high school pastor who despite his wife not working was able to afford a ridiculously expensive home....on a high school pastor's salary.

Combine this with their kids going to private school, his wife having another salary position, and on and on it goes. But what I talked about back a year ago was the daughter started a Kickstarter page to fund two CDs she wanted to make and distribute where the proceeds would still be going to her. She and her dad, the head preacher, advertised this at multiple services and asked for $32,000 to make it happen. UNBELIEVABLE. Then she made the goal, made her albums, and then of course, had no one to sell it to but the people who funded it in the first place. I questioned this in an anonymous email about what are they doing to determine the basic needs of the congregation like people unable to pay bills,needing food, or transportation and what the preacher told me was "Do not mess with God's anointed." Riiiight.

I did some further digging into that church system that has churches worldwide and saw how the financial set up was and it was beyond messed up. Ever since then, I have huge issues with churches who teach this and pressure the congregation to give as if they are doing God's work by funding the staff's salary and so they can live better than you do. It's pretty disgusting.

I try to go when I can. I didn't go at all from the age 13-18 and then briefly went before not going back until another 7 years later. I went to church quite regularly until the summer of 2013 when I got an inside look into how the church I was going to operated. I became disgusted.

I wrote about it on here but when you get real close to the inner circles of a church and see how it is set up and how much BS goes on and how it's ran like a family business (not all, obviously), you get depressed and realize that the modern church does not resemble anything like Jesus taught.

I'll tell you the story again. My wife and I became friends with some church staffers and bonded over surfing, sports, and music. Everything was great until I got a closer look. The preacher had a ridiculous salary set up and he had one daughter and two son in-laws working there as full time positions which were joke positions. The daughter was the worship leader for like four services a week and got full-time salary. One son in-law did the audio equipment for the services and then some stuff for the website and got full time salary and the other son in-law got a job as a high school minister there.

The daughter and one son in-law had a house in SoCal that was nice, two kids that went to private school (paid for by the church) and would take BS vacations overseas. The son in-law that was a high school minister had three kids and his wife stayed at home and didn't work. He somehow made so much that he had a huge house in very nice SoCal neighborhood and literally did nothing but go to morning coffee with people and called it "witnessing" and then just talk to high school students a couple of days a week.

Well, the final straw for my disgusts with this church and so many like it that are money driven was when the pastor's daughter got to go in front of the congregation and advertise her Kickstarter campaign needing $30,000 to make two albums. This is a woman who's family already gets paid by the church and now is asking for $30,000 for two BS albums. I told the preacher I thought this was pretty unethical considering there were people with real needs and not some stuff like an album. I asked why could she not get a job to pay for it herself like any of us would? He didn't take too kindly to that.

Not only does she get $30k, she gets $32,000 and then of course, can't sell her albums but to the idiots who funded it in the first place. Then after that, they took a 12 city international trip for "recon" and it just so happened to be to cities that were major tourist attractions in beautiful cities not slums.

I later found out the insane perks and salary the pastor was given and the fact that the finances were not open to the congregation. How effed up is that?

I've seen some shameful ones. I find it to be pretty deplorable unless it's to take care of a family's medical bills or if they lost their house or something. This BS to "live my dream" absolutely not.

The most deplorable one was from Kickstarter two years ago that took place at the church that I used to attend. The pastor's daughter is in her late 30s and led the worship team. She and her husband already got full-time salaries despite doing BS work that is considered a volunteer position everywhere else. Their kids got to go to private school as well.

Anyways, she asked the church for $32,000 to fund her music career to help make her own album and then a worship album and needed money for studio time, distribution and to pay musicians apparently. Anyways, she actually got it. Obviously couldn't sell it to anyone else except the people who already funded it. I spoke my concerns about this being basically an offering despite already paying her a salary and not a need that the church should support (since there are actual widows and orphans with basic needs not being met) and I suggested shouldn't she get a job like anyone else if she wants that extra cash? The pastor freaked out and we no longer go to church there. [laughing]

As for more shameful, I've seen boob jobs being asked for on there and a gay kid from Georgia who was 20 years old, got over $90k raised because his parents kicked him out of the house after they got into a huge verbal and physical confrontation. That's multiple years of salary for people.

 

[bluelifer]

Don't f with funKY. Dude has the entire summer to prove you wrong.

 

[KingOfBBN]

I stand corrected. It is the fourth, counting this one.

Funk, thanks for the search. I had meant starting a thread on the topic but see your point.

I doubt many people casually remember that or have the same memory as you every time a topic is discussed.

Again, it's needed for the backstory to bring up the topic and justify the position. If it's bothersome to you then just ignore it. I don't think anyone else cared.

 

[funKYcat75]

Funk, thanks for the search. I had meant starting a thread on the topic but see your point.

I doubt many people casually remember that or have the same memory as you every time a topic is discussed.

Again, it's needed for the backstory to bring up the topic and justify the position. If it's bothersome to you then just ignore it. I don't think anyone else cared.

You could just stop making threads altogether and help make the world a better place.

 

[funKYcat75]

Yeah but in fairness, all you had to do was search the "Do you go to church?" thread from a year ago and you had this.

But Funk's memory is top notch. I just think it obliviously hijacks a discussion and no one else remembers every poster's topic or has been on here nearly as long or much. So you got to set the tone for the subject.

It is such an overplayed and clichéd stance. What more is there to say about it?

 

[KingOfBBN]

You could just stop making threads altogether and help make the world a better place.

How about we take up a tithe? Or the cheaper route could be you don't click a topic that doesn't interest you or just hit the ignore button?

I like you, Funk. Never had an issue with you so not sure what the issue is for ya but nonetheless, I removed the backstory out just so we can discuss the topic.

I'm going to move on now.

 

[mashburned]

You used the exact same words. It was like you copied and pasted it, but yeah...

I get it dude. I think the same things.

But, ultimately, forgiveness is the key. It's the biggest key today. It's easier to see the corruption and hypocrisy, so we need forgiveness now more than ever.

^ that's the Christian way.

I have no idea how to do that, tbh. I don't forget or forgive. I'm not comfortable with it, but I realize it. It's a communication thing. I suck.

 

[starchief]

IdaCat just emailed his boss that he won't be in today.

[laughing]

 

[starchief]

He would preach about God's favor and that just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you can't enjoy your fruits. I hate on Christianity a lot but isn't sacrifice and altruism part of the foundation?

It is the core of Biblical teaching.

 

[DSmith21]

If you don't like how a church is spending money, don't support it. If you really believe you need to tithe, then pick your own charities which are better stewards of the money.

 

[Bill Derington]

Except maybe these guys, whatever religion's variant... monks generally put their no money where their mouth is.

Many people hold to convictions, but many more people don't. it doesn't matter what line of profession. When there's alot of money at stake people tend get shadier.

I had a friend tell me once that the best place to find the devil was behind the pulpit.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

OP has an agenda. Wants to make sure he discredits all churches. As has been stated. He's done this several times.
:thumbsdown:

 

[Crushgroove]

Do people forget that the oppression of the RCC and its corruption are part of what spawned our current society? Did you expect them to change?

 

[Dig Dirkler]

I'd wager a Bennie that Heismann has been touched by a priest.

 

[UKserialkiller]

We're always looking for new members at the Church of Satan

 

[KingOfBBN]

OP has an agenda. Wants to make sure he discredits all churches. As has been stated. He's done this several times.
:thumbsdown:

Umm no. I attend church but just not one that's built like the one I mentioned. I haven't discredited all churches nor was that pointed out. It was exposing the corruption from one system and explaining the personal experience.

You should want corruption and wolves to be exposed. Also, abuse in the church is rampant and people not questioning it and worshipping the pastor/priests is one of the reasons it's allowed to continue.

 

[KingOfBBN]

I'd wager a Bennie that Heismann has been touched by a priest.

LOL. Not quite. Not Catholic and didn't attend church as a little boy, which is the ripe age apparently for pedos.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

Umm no. I attend church but just not one that's built like the one I mentioned. I haven't discredited all churches nor was that pointed out. It was exposing the corruption from one system and explaining the personal experience.

You should want corruption and wolves to be exposed. Also, abuse in the church is rampant and people not questioning it and worshipping the pastor/priests is one of the reasons it's allowed to continue.

I want people like to stop portraying churches as some gangster operation. But you obviously can't.

 

[Crushgroove]

I want people like to stop portraying churches as some gangster operation. But you obviously can't.

I never will, either. You need to remember that some of us have seen more evil from the church than anywhere else in our lives. You need to keep perspective in mind. Your experiences may vary, but there are A LOT of folks walking around that are mentally screwed due to (any) religious doctrine and its subsequent application... be that by force, guilt or any other means in their playbook.