Stoops buyout vs. other SEC coaches

LeonThe Camel

Senior
May 3, 2016
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http://kentuckysportsradio.com/football-2/comparing-mark-stoops-buyout-to-the-rest-of-the-sec/

6th highest buyout of SEC coaches.

Also, if he leaves UK for another program before his contract is up he owes UK nothing. Only other SEC coach with that deal is Saban.
At the moment, Stoops buyout is second in the history of college football. The only buyout paid that is higher is ND and Weiss at $18 million.

So the cheap way if you want him to go, is to use your boosters to convince another school to hire him at some grossly exaggerated amount $5 million a year for a few years.

If that school were willing to pay $1.5 million for a coach on their own, we kick in the remainder, and ...... poof. JK.
 

mdlUK.1

Heisman
Dec 23, 2002
29,712
57,543
0
I'm not a Barnhart basher like a lot of folks on here but this has to be the worst negotiated contract in history! UK gets nothing if stoops has success and leaves? WHY WOULD WE AGREE TI THAT?? WHY?
 

JasonS.

All-American
Oct 10, 2001
41,813
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I'm not a Barnhart basher like a lot of folks on here but this has to be the worst negotiated contract in history! UK gets nothing if stoops has success and leaves? WHY WOULD WE AGREE TI THAT?? WHY?

That's Barnhart's philosophy for whatever reason. Calipari's contract is the same way ... retention bonuses in lieu of a buyout.
 
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oboroCATfan

All-Conference
Sep 17, 2003
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That's Barnhart's philosophy for whatever reason. Calipari's contract is the same way ... retention bonuses in lieu of a buyout.

But Cal is a winner, Stoops is not even close to that. They look completely foolish that this is his contract.
 

JHB4UK

Heisman
May 29, 2001
31,836
11,258
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At the time the contract was signed the biggest outrage people had was the zero buyout on Stoops side. folks assumed he was winning & would only win more & only inevitable a bigger program would come calling - and UK would lose him for nothing.
 
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EdNygma

Freshman
Mar 2, 2008
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2-10 his first year and then starts off year 2 going 5-1 to get this sweetheart extension with guaranteed pay. Since the time those contract discussions began (it was signed by all parties on 10/29/14) Stoops has gone 5-15 (0-6 to finish out year 2, 5-7 year 3 and 0-2 to start year 4). Barnhart is a real visionary and sitting fat, dumb and happy on his own extended contract through 2022.
 
Sep 13, 2003
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Once again, the UK Football Program and it's fans are the big losers in this whole contract fiasco.

Why does Mitch ALWAYS look out for himself and the coach, instead of the program and the fans?

Therein lies the whole problem.
 
Jan 29, 2003
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By the way, although I've not been overly impressed through the years with Mark Story, I thought this was good:

"Just after the extension was announced, I wrote that UK’s move reflected the irrational marketplace in which big-time college coaching contracts get done.

I also asked the following question: Was Barnhart more apt to be viciously second-guessed if:

A.) He extended Stoops’ contract prematurely, the coach failed, and the university got stuck with a massive buyout payment?

B.) He didn’t extend the coach, only to watch a successful Stoops bolt for a better deal at a more traditional football school?

At the time, I said “B” was the bigger risk for Barnhart.

Two games into Stoops’ fourth season, “A” seems the scenario UK is more likely to face."


Now, don't misunderstand me - this was a failed move by Barnhart, it's come back to bite him and UK in the azz, and there should be consequences for that. Point blank period. But at the time, UK was 5-3 in Stoops second year, we had a top 20 recruiting class for likely the first time in history, there were lists popping up of the hottest names/most likely to get better jobs and Stoops was on those lists (just like now, only different lists!). As Story says, he thought at the time the bigger risk to Barnhart was losing Stoops to a bigger program after failing to extend him. For those of you who think of Barnhart as a timid bean counter, this was a big, bold move on his part. Only in hindsight does it look particularly stupid.

Like I said, it failed, not defending him, that's the chance he took.......
 

kyhusker2

Freshman
Aug 2, 2011
1,325
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2-10 his first year and then starts off year 2 going 5-1 to get this sweetheart extension with guaranteed pay. Since the time those contract discussions began (it was signed by all parties on 10/29/14) Stoops has gone 5-15 (0-6 to finish out year 2, 5-7 year 3 and 0-2 to start year 4). Barnhart is a real visionary and sitting fat, dumb and happy on his own extended contract through 2022.

It wasn't just his record that led to the extension, it was also recruiting. Basketball fans and administrators have been conditioned to believe that recruiting well will lead to immediate success. It doesn't work that way in football. It's possible that Barnhart didn't appreciate that fact at the time the extension was negotiated.
 
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rjr

Sophomore
Oct 14, 2003
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2-10 his first year and then starts off year 2 going 5-1 to get this sweetheart extension with guaranteed pay. Since the time those contract discussions began (it was signed by all parties on 10/29/14) Stoops has gone 5-15 (0-6 to finish out year 2, 5-7 year 3 and 0-2 to start year 4). Barnhart is a real visionary and sitting fat, dumb and happy on his own extended contract through 2022.

Its really incompetence. First, he should never have been given an extension. Second, yes he started 5-1, but three of those games were against cupcakes: UT Martin, Ohio, ULM, and the other two were against bad and fading SEC teams: Vandy, USC. So, in other words, Mitch had to know- HAD TO KNOW- that Stoops would lose some games going forward against the likes of LSU, Georgia, Tenn, etc. Why not wait until the end of the season to enter into the extension when you might get a better deal when you have some leverage (after some losses)???

Thirdly, to be the only school this side of Alabama to agree that your coach can walk without a buyout is just plain ignorance. Honestly, what are we paying Barnhart for if not to negotiate contracts effectively? This is simply unacceptable. The President should also have questioned his AD about this contract. The Board of Trustees should ask the President why this sweetheart contract was permitted.

Finally, KSR should get credit for researching this article.
 

tmuck

All-Conference
Oct 2, 2009
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jnewc2_rivals30628

All-Conference
Nov 22, 2006
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In all seriousness we have to get rid of Barnhart and soon. Seems like a nice guy but my goodness what a train wreck. Our fans are the ones that end up getting hurt by his buffoonery
 

LeonThe Camel

Senior
May 3, 2016
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It goes back to revisionist history. At the time we all thought Stoops was going to succeed. We were giddy.

Now the clock has turned 2 years past that date and we are upset.
 

jauk11

Heisman
Dec 6, 2006
60,631
18,638
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SMH

If Barnhart offered Stoops a different type of deal than Cal received, the football fans would be yelling foul.



Right, their proven track record is about the same.

Gotta go, my nose is growing, pushing me away from my computer.
 

Grumpyolddawg

Heisman
Jun 11, 2001
28,436
37,217
113
By the way, although I've not been overly impressed through the years with Mark Story, I thought this was good:

"Just after the extension was announced, I wrote that UK’s move reflected the irrational marketplace in which big-time college coaching contracts get done.

I also asked the following question: Was Barnhart more apt to be viciously second-guessed if:

A.) He extended Stoops’ contract prematurely, the coach failed, and the university got stuck with a massive buyout payment?

B.) He didn’t extend the coach, only to watch a successful Stoops bolt for a better deal at a more traditional football school?

At the time, I said “B” was the bigger risk for Barnhart.

Two games into Stoops’ fourth season, “A” seems the scenario UK is more likely to face."


Now, don't misunderstand me - this was a failed move by Barnhart, it's come back to bite him and UK in the azz, and there should be consequences for that. Point blank period. But at the time, UK was 5-3 in Stoops second year, we had a top 20 recruiting class for likely the first time in history, there were lists popping up of the hottest names/most likely to get better jobs and Stoops was on those lists (just like now, only different lists!). As Story says, he thought at the time the bigger risk to Barnhart was losing Stoops to a bigger program after failing to extend him. For those of you who think of Barnhart as a timid bean counter, this was a big, bold move on his part. Only in hindsight does it look particularly stupid.

Like I said, it failed, not defending him, that's the chance he took.......

I remember when the extension was signed. Stoops had UK's recruiting at or very near top 10, had been number 1 for awhile in the summer, started the season out great. I can't remember which week the extension was signed, but the big worry on the board was a traditional power was going to come in and steal him away, not everyone but many wanted to tie Stoops with a longterm contract, and were relieved when he signed the extension. No everyone but many, then the season went bad and the feelings about the extension started to change. The AD gambled he had made a good hire, and quite honestly at the time the extension was signed it looked like he did.

UK football fans are in the same boat UGA basketball fans are in, struggle to get funds to do things needed for the program because the people contributing the most are not fans of the other sport. Therefore, being able to recruit at a level to compete becomes almost impossible. Every kid on our BB team was the best or very near the best on their HS team, but are no more than average at best SEC players and the product we put on the court shows that. I think Foxx is a good X and 0 coach, but just doesn't have the talent to compete with the better teams. I know many UK fans feel their talent level is on par with most SEC teams, at a couple of positions it is, but at others its towards the bottom.

The USM game was going to be a tough game, and it was, UK came out on the short end, it could have easily come out in UK's favor but when its goingi to be a close game a single play can determine the outcome. UK didn't show up for the UF game for some reason, hard to explain it any other way.

I don't have an opinion what UK needs to do regarding Stoops, but changing OC's every year isn't a good thing. A staff needs time to develope just like a player does.
 
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STUCKNBIG10

All-Conference
Aug 30, 2006
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I remember when the extension was signed. Stoops had UK's recruiting at or very near top 10, had been number 1 for awhile in the summer, started the season out great. I can't remember which week the extension was signed, but the big worry on the board was a traditional power was going to come in and steal him away, not everyone but many wanted to tie Stoops with a longterm contract, and were relieved when he signed the extension. No everyone but many, then the season went bad and the feelings about the extension started to change. The AD gambled he had made a good hire, and quite honestly at the time the extension was signed it looked like he did.

UK football fans are in the same boat UGA basketball fans are in, struggle to get funds to do things needed for the program because the people contributing the most are not fans of the other sport. Therefore, being able to recruit at a level to compete becomes almost impossible. Every kid on our BB team was the best or very near the best on their HS team, but are no more than average at best SEC players and the product we put on the court shows that. I think Foxx is a good X and 0 coach, but just doesn't have the talent to compete with the better teams. I know many UK fans feel their talent level is on par with most SEC teams, at a couple of positions it is, but at others its towards the bottom.

The USM game was going to be a tough game, and it was, UK came out on the short end, it could have easily come out in UK's favor but when its goingi to be a close game a single play can determine the outcome. UK didn't show up for the UF game for some reason, hard to explain it any other way.

I don't have an opinion what UK needs to do regarding Stoops, but changing OC's every year isn't a good thing. A staff needs time to develope just like a player does.

Completely disagree on a few things here:

UK fans care much more about football than UGA fans do about basketball. Your basketball arena is a ghost town except when UK comes to town (and then it's 1/3 blue).

We do agree that Mitch gambled, but it's looking like he lost. In that sense, he has to pay the consequences. Every gambler knows that a win can be a huge payoff but a loss can have dire consequences. Mitch went all-in and he's losing, so he deserves to go with Stoops.
 
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PokerCat67

Freshman
Dec 4, 2007
135
55
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Once again, the UK Football Program and it's fans are the big losers in this whole contract fiasco.

Why does Mitch ALWAYS look out for himself and the coach, instead of the program and the fans?

Therein lies the whole problem.

We need to make UK Football great again! UK fans first! Incompetent leaders make horrible deals!
 
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Grumpyolddawg

Heisman
Jun 11, 2001
28,436
37,217
113
Completely disagree on a few things here:

UK fans care much more about football than UGA fans do about basketball. Your basketball arena is a ghost town except when UK comes to town (and then it's 1/3 blue).

We do agree that Mitch gambled, but it's looking like he lost. In that sense, he has to pay the consequences. Every gambler knows that a win can be a huge payoff but a loss can have dire consequences. Mitch went all-in and he's losing, so he deserves to go with Stoops.

Because we are always playing uphill, not a week ago people were posting thre would be 20k empty seats at CWS this weekend, that may or may not be true, but it was posted here. But that wasn't my point, BB just isn't that important to the people that matter, and the AD at UK appears the same way. Look at the hires, goes out and hires a big named bb coach and then goes and hires a coordinator who has had mixed results during his career for FB.
 

*Bleedingblue*

Heisman
Mar 5, 2009
39,638
30,508
113
Because we are always playing uphill, not a week ago people were posting thre would be 20k empty seats at CWS this weekend, that may or may not be true, but it was posted here. But that wasn't my point, BB just isn't that important to the people that matter, and the AD at UK appears the same way. Look at the hires, goes out and hires a big named bb coach and then goes and hires a coordinator who has had mixed results during his career for FB.

Its more or less a protest. We did it against joker to show our disapproval. For many years we had one of the higher attendance figures in the country all the while having one of the poorest looking teams taking the field.

I wonder how Georgia, Bama, Florida etc fans would react if they had year after year after year of piss poor results. My guess would be they wouldnt show up much like they dont show up for their piss poor bb programs.
People like a winner and want to see and root for a winner. Lots of ky fans root for ND, Bama, Ohio St etc in football. Lots of people down here in tn and over in Miss root for ky in basketball because we are winners and people want to be associated with a winner, they want to see themselves as one a reflection of sorts.
 

Grumpyolddawg

Heisman
Jun 11, 2001
28,436
37,217
113
Its more or less a protest. We did it against joker to show our disapproval. For many years we had one of the higher attendance figures in the country all the while having one of the poorest looking teams taking the field.

I wonder how Georgia, Bama, Florida etc fans would react if they had year after year after year of piss poor results. My guess would be they wouldnt show up much like they dont show up for their piss poor bb programs.
People like a winner and want to see and root for a winner. Lots of ky fans root for ND, Bama, Ohio St etc in football. Lots of people down here in tn and over in Miss root for ky in basketball because we are winners and people want to be associated with a winner, they want to see themselves as one a reflection of sorts.

During the Goff years we put some pretty bad teams on the field but the stands stayed pretty full. Football is more of a social gathering than BB I think, with the all day tailgating and people use it more of a way to stay in touch with friends and their youth than BB. That's just a personal opinion, to many its an event and not a contest. We have tons of people who don't even enter the stadium, never have tickets, but come to tailgate with friends and watch on the a big TV and have done it since satellite on an RV has been available. Maybe UK gets that for BB, but weather kind of puts a drawback on that. Before Holtz went to USC, they were on a 20+ game losing streak, but every home game was a sellout. If UGA started a BB season 10-0 with a couple of big wins, people would show up to watch them play. For years the hardest ticket at UGA other than FB was gymnastics. That has changed with the coach retiring but they sold out the place every meet.
 

STUCKNBIG10

All-Conference
Aug 30, 2006
7,302
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Because we are always playing uphill, not a week ago people were posting thre would be 20k empty seats at CWS this weekend, that may or may not be true, but it was posted here. But that wasn't my point, BB just isn't that important to the people that matter, and the AD at UK appears the same way. Look at the hires, goes out and hires a big named bb coach and then goes and hires a coordinator who has had mixed results during his career for FB.

Mark Stoops did not have mixed results as a coordinator. In his most recent stop, he created one of the top defensive units in the country (and it wasn't that way when he arrived). UGA hired a top-notch coordinator as its head coach, just as UK did.
 

olblue

All-Conference
Aug 17, 2011
3,129
1,383
113
Completely disagree on a few things here:

UK fans care much more about football than UGA fans do about basketball. Your basketball arena is a ghost town except when UK comes to town (and then it's 1/3 blue).

We do agree that Mitch gambled, but it's looking like he lost. In that sense, he has to pay the consequences. Every gambler knows that a win can be a huge payoff but a loss can have dire consequences. Mitch went all-in and he's losing, so he deserves to go with Stoops.

http://www.courier-journal.com/stor.../09/uk-extends-contract-ad-barnhart/86892212/
 

GOCARDS6

Junior
Aug 11, 2016
469
301
0
I am as Anti cal as it comes from a fan/rivals perspective but there is no denying what he has done and has certainly earned the perks of his contract. I didn't know what kind of deal stoops was given until recently and all I can say is WOW wish I would get a deal like that. I know hind sight is 20/20 but geeze. You could literally let the fans coach and split the money and not have as much to worry about haha
 

downw/ball-lineD

All-Conference
Jan 2, 2003
7,879
3,573
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Reminds me of "gov't/public institutions" decisions in general. Real easy to make dumb decisions when your spending other people's money! Gus, I, in a way, appreciate what you are saying as well. I have to remind myself that this argument is very much a hindsight is 20/20 argument. I feel you are correct in that regard. However, it doesn't make me feel any better about where UKFB currently stands. Whether 20/20 hindsight or not, that contract---in no way---served UK's interest. UK literally got nothing from the deal! Whether or not one criticizes the deal now or then (and you are correct---it should have been criticized then), I don't know that it matters. (I concede it looks worse now than it does then). Mitch is bound to serve UK's interest, not a current or respective coach.

With the benefit of hindsight or not, the contract, then or now, makes no sense for UK! None.