Stop The Money Grab Dr. Jim

[lunker35]

I’ve been a season ticket holder for 16 years and missed probably five games. This is the first time I’ve seriously considered not renewing and it’s not because of the performance on the court. I’ve seen countless terrible seasons. My section 212 was completely full, the catch being myself and my family were the only people not wearing Michigan gear. I kid you not, not a single Northwestern fan/supporter in 212. I make a small donation annually that gets me the first row in that section and parking, but I’m not willing to do more. Like many of you I’ve got young kids and they’re damn expensive. I already give Northwestern thousands of dollars a year for football, basketball, baseball, and concessions. It’s time to start taking care of the people who actually show up and support the program. Enough of this money grab. Tonight during the halftime show we had a spectacular performance and the poor kid was facing the Wilson Club the entire time. He was performing to 16 people who remained in their seats, while the rest excluded themselves in their elitist club. The culture here is broken worse than this team and it’s going to start pushing loyal supporters away from the program. End rant.

 

[Sec_112]

This will be the short version of my annual rant.

Participation is a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE problem at NU. And there's a value to it. It's part of building your brand. STHs should start gaining valuable Wildcat Fund points for personally using their tickets.

I'd love to have a similar solution for students, but it's their school. If you won't show for free food and tickets, there's not much more that can be done.

 

[Username Not Available]

Students section seemed pretty filled tonight. Not SRO or anything, but they showed up.

 

[Hungry Jack]

There is nothing worse in money sports than a shiny, new, beautiful stadium—that is empty on game day.

 

[its_the_sauce]

I couldn't make it (son ill), were they selling beers??

 

[TheC]

I couldn't make it (son ill), were they selling beers??

Looked like it. The highlight of the night was when they did the pre-game close-up shot of the announcers setting up the game and a fan sitting right behind them chugged a beer for the camera. I'd love to hear that he was one of you guys!!

 

[GatoLouco]

I feel your pain even if I only made it to WR once this season and once last season. It is heart breaking to see such a pretty place empty or full by the presence of visiting supporters.

But there's not much of a solution here. Most people on this board are close to hard core NU fans. But there's not a whole lot of us. The vast majority of the NU fan base is composed of casual fans. And you can't blame a casual fan for not wanting to go see a 1-11 team on a snowy night.

So what you're left with is either an empty arena or a decent crowd composed by the massive B1G alumni living the the Chicago area.

 

[lunker35]

I feel your pain even if I only made it to WR once this season and once last season. It is heart breaking to see such a pretty place empty or full by the presence of visiting supporters.

But there's not much of a solution here. Most people on this board are close to hard core NU fans. But there's not a whole lot of us. The vast majority of the NU fan base is composed of casual fans. And you can't blame a casual fan for not wanting to go see a 1-11 team on a snowy night.

So what you're left with is either an empty arena or a decent crowd composed by the massive B1G alumni living the the Chicago area.

The solution is reward the people that show up and support the program. My section is either empty or full of supporting fans. I can’t get the lower bowl, because I’m not willing to donate even more money. I used to have much better seats and be surrounded with NU fans that show up. All I want is to sit with the people who actually do come to support the team. If that doesn’t change I’m done.

 

[GatoLouco]

The solution is reward the people that show up and support the program. My section is either empty or full of supporting fans. I can’t get the lower bowl, because I’m not willing to donate even more money. I used to have much better seats and be surrounded with NU fans that show up. All I want is to sit with the people who actually do come to support the team. If that doesn’t change I’m done.

Straight up dropping the prices will do very little. I mean, it would be fair, as the prices are so out of whack with the quality of the product we are selling, but it would just result in less revenue in a still empty or filled with visitor's supporters arena.

But... Yeah. It seems like long time STH, like you, should be, somehow, rewarded.

The fix can only come from having a better team. At this point, significantly better.

 

[CappyNU]

The problem is, to Lunker's point, Phillips made the decision to go for a cash grab in the form of the seat donations that are minimum 4 figures for access to the lower bowl. I also opted for the modest donation in order to get first row in 201. I love the seats I have, but I would sure like it more if my friends and I who've been going to games since we were students 15 years ago could've gotten lower level seats without spending thousands of dollars. Both sides of the Wilson Club section and the section behind Michigan's bench were filled with Michigan fans, not to mention the entire upper deck. But this is what Phillips wanted, and this is what the administration values, which is money over NU fans. Perhaps they'll come to their senses after 2 very poor years in an effort to get their own fans into good seats, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[GatoLouco]

The problem is, to Lunker's point, Phillips made the decision to go for a cash grab in the form of the seat donations that are minimum 4 figures for access to the lower bowl. I also opted for the modest donation in order to get first row in 201. I love the seats I have, but I would sure like it more if my friends and I who've been going to games since we were students 15 years ago could've gotten lower level seats without spending thousands of dollars. Both sides of the Wilson Club section and the section behind Michigan's bench were filled with Michigan fans, not to mention the entire upper deck. But this is what Phillips wanted, and this is what the administration values, which is money over NU fans. Perhaps they'll come to their senses after 2 very poor years in an effort to get their own fans into good seats, but I'm not holding my breath.

You are right, and, again, the money involved is totally out of whack with the quality of the team. It's unfair to you and Lunker. And there should be a strong reward for loyalty. Beyond just having priority, making it affordable.

I'm just saying that lowering the prices, most likely, won't change the empty seats or the number of fans of the visiting team. Most people buying them will continue to not show up or selling them on the many reselling marketplaces available (which is how you end up with opposing fans in the lower bowl).

The only thing that, imo, will change it is us starting winning.

 

[Sec_112]

Students section seemed pretty filled tonight. Not SRO or anything, but they showed up.

Agreed. Our group was saying the same thing.

Let's see if they do it for a second B10 game.

 

[CappyNU]

You are right, and, again, the money involved is totally out of whack with the quality of the team. It's unfair to you and Lunker. And there should be a strong reward for loyalty. Beyond just having priority, making it affordable.

I'm just saying that lowering the prices, most likely, won't change the empty seats or the number of fans of the visiting team. Most people buying them will continue to not show up or selling them on the many reselling marketplaces available (which is how you end up with opposing fans in the lower bowl).

The only thing that, imo, will change it is us starting winning.

This is true, but they can do what they've done with football season ticket holders, where they track who is selling every game on resale sites and boot them from their seats. A combination of non-insane donation prices and aggressive activity against scalpers would work to get the actual fans in the seats, but again, they want that corporate cash to happily pay whatever the cost is to get the status of the Wilson Club and prime seats and they don't care that the tickets are given/sold to opposing fans every game.

 

[willycat]

The problem is, to Lunker's point, Phillips made the decision to go for a cash grab in the form of the seat donations that are minimum 4 figures for access to the lower bowl. I also opted for the modest donation in order to get first row in 201. I love the seats I have, but I would sure like it more if my friends and I who've been going to games since we were students 15 years ago could've gotten lower level seats without spending thousands of dollars. Both sides of the Wilson Club section and the section behind Michigan's bench were filled with Michigan fans, not to mention the entire upper deck. But this is what Phillips wanted, and this is what the administration values, which is money over NU fans. Perhaps they'll come to their senses after 2 very poor years in an effort to get their own fans into good seats, but I'm not holding my breath.

Sounds a lot like the football parking pass, only with a large donation. I finally gave up my ST's last season, after having them for about 25 years and my family having tickets in the 60's and 70's.

 

[willycat]

Agreed. Our group was saying the same thing.

Let's see if they do it for a second B10 game.

Thinking that the students aren't the ones to blame. It's all of those constantly empty seats in the Wilson Section and the empty ones behind the NU bench.

 

[sprinkler2]

I’ve been a season ticket holder for 16 years and missed probably five games. This is the first time I’ve seriously considered not renewing and it’s not because of the performance on the court. I’ve seen countless terrible seasons. My section 212 was completely full, the catch being myself and my family were the only people not wearing Michigan gear. I kid you not, not a single Northwestern fan/supporter in 212. I make a small donation annually that gets me the first row in that section and parking, but I’m not willing to do more. Like many of you I’ve got young kids and they’re damn expensive. I already give Northwestern thousands of dollars a year for football, basketball, baseball, and concessions. It’s time to start taking care of the people who actually show up and support the program. Enough of this money grab. Tonight during the halftime show we had a spectacular performance and the poor kid was facing the Wilson Club the entire time. He was performing to 16 people who remained in their seats, while the rest excluded themselves in their elitist club. The culture here is broken worse than this team and it’s going to start pushing loyal supporters away from the program. End rant.

Amen brother. I am right there will you

 

[its_the_sauce]

Sounds a lot like the football parking pass, only with a large donation. I finally gave up my ST's last season, after having them for about 25 years and my family having tickets in the 60's and 70's.

To NU's credit they do allow the seat donation to count towards football parking which is great if you have ST's to both. For this reason I do kick in the $2500 for seats in 108. If not for the football parking spiff my b-ball ST's would be in the no donation required section lol.

Out of curiosity does anyone know if the Wilson Club is sold out?

 

[ParisCat_rivals]

This was the first game this season where I thought NU fans were badly outnumbered by visitors. The Illinois game will be worse. I've had football STs for 29 years, and basketball STs for about 17, and I've never resold any of my tickets. I think that will change for the Illinois game. I feel like I'm the only sucker in my section who isn't recouping the costs of his "donation" by reselling tickets. I love supporting the players, but I feel like the athletic department isn't doing anything to support me or its other loyal fans.

 

[willycat]

To NU's credit they do allow the seat donation to count towards football parking which is great if you have ST's to both. For this reason I do kick in the $2500 for seats in 108. If not for the football parking spiff my b-ball ST's would be in the no donation required section lol.

Out of curiosity does anyone know if the Wilson Club is sold out?

The real question, since the game is not worth discussing, did they or did they not sell beer last night?

 

[bringbacktherantboard]

I'm just saying that lowering the prices, most likely, won't change the empty seats or the number of fans of the visiting team. Most people buying them will continue to not show up or selling them on the many reselling marketplaces available (which is how you end up with opposing fans in the lower bowl).

What type of person makes a donation to get tickets in the lower bowl but then refuses to go to the games they donated money for and then turns around and sells their tickets to fans of the opposing team (presumably at a loss)?

 

[GatoLouco]

What type of person makes a donation to get tickets in the lower bowl but then refuses to go to the games they donated money for and then turns around and sells their tickets to fans of the opposing team (presumably at a loss)?

Against the likes of Michigan it's not necessarily at a loss. I check those prices frequently as I'm always tempted to drive 3 and 1/2 hours for a game. Against non conference opponents, yes, at a steep loss.

But I don't think it's about scalping. I'm guessing it's more like the STH buys the tickets, and does not feel motivated to go see a losing team. If we were winning, they'd use the tickets. If that's the case, it kind of seems legit to me. You end up not wanting to go, you sell them, loss or not. Even if at a loss, better $10 in your pocket than nothing.

Lastly, I do not think you can pick and choose who you sell the tickets to. You put them on vividseats, seatgeek, stubhub, gametime, tickpick, etc... And whoever buys it, buys it.

 

[bringbacktherantboard]

Against the likes of Michigan it's not necessarily at a loss. I check those prices frequently as I'm always tempted to drive 3 and 1/2 hours for a game. Against non conference opponents, yes, at a steep loss.

But I don't think it's about scalping. I'm guessing it's more like the STH buys the tickets, and does not feel motivated to go see a losing team. If we were winning, they'd use the tickets. If that's the case, it kind of seems legit to me. You end up not wanting to go, you sell them, loss or not. Even if at a loss, better $10 in your pocket than nothing.

Lastly, I do not think you can pick and choose who you sell the tickets to. You put them on vividseats, seatgeek, stubhub, gametime, tickpick, etc... And whoever buys it, buys it.

But these are the people donating to get into the lower bowl. I would think these would be the hardcore fans who support the team through thick and thin? Or are they just rich people and this is a status symbol to them?

 

[GatoLouco]

But these are the people donating to get into the lower bowl. I would think these would be the hardcore fans who support the team through thick and thin? Or are they just rich people and this is a status symbol to them?

My guess: not hard core fans at all in most case. Just rich enough or irresponsible enough that $3k is not a big deal. And then feel guilty about leaving $10 on the table if they do not sell a ticket for a game against Norfolk State.

 

[ubercat]

Many Wilson Club STH's (especially out-of-towners) do show up occasionally at games, but then donate their tickets for other games back to the university to distribute. This might help explain some of the empty seats in that section. I don't think there are many ticket "brokers" in the WC, but a few may give their game tickets to friends/ associates who wear the opponents' colors.

 

[willycat]

Against the likes of Michigan it's not necessarily at a loss. I check those prices frequently as I'm always tempted to drive 3 and 1/2 hours for a game. Against non conference opponents, yes, at a steep loss.

But I don't think it's about scalping. I'm guessing it's more like the STH buys the tickets, and does not feel motivated to go see a losing team. If we were winning, they'd use the tickets. If that's the case, it kind of seems legit to me. You end up not wanting to go, you sell them, loss or not. Even if at a loss, better $10 in your pocket than nothing.

Lastly, I do not think you can pick and choose who you sell the tickets to. You put them on vividseats, seatgeek, stubhub, gametime, tickpick, etc... And whoever buys it, buys it.

How about giving them to a neighbor, friends or local kids?

 

[CappyNU]

I'm fairly certain that Wilson Club ticket holders cannot sell their tickets on a resale site, as I've never seen one available when looking. I guarantee many of the ticket holders in the other prime seats are people who buy tickets to use on their clients or other corporate use, which is how you end up with so many opposing fans in those seats.

 

[Sec_112]

STHs, help me out on this one. There's a few assumption being made that aren't really correct.

a) Tickets for Illinois and Indiana (when they are in town) are almost always in high demand. They are not sold for anything close to a loss. Last night, I could have sold my Michigan tickets with little effort for more than double what I pay the ticket price + per-game donation.

I think you can put Purdue and MSU in the Michigan category also.

b) Most of the people outside the Wilson Seats and floor seats in the lower level are the same middle-class/upper-middle class that you find in almost any mid-level seat at sporting events in America today. There's probably some money floating around, but not a ton.

c) The lower bowl is nowhere near filled by STHs. NU has some weird-*** strategy to talk about a sold out arena as some sleezy attempt to create demand, then sell entire rows on StubHub. A MINIMUM of the last two or three rows in the lower bowl sections are always available on Stubhub or through the ticket office.

NOTE TO NU: You'd do the fan base and stadium atmosphere a favor by lowering the price of seats in the last five lower-bowl rows and getting good STHs in them. It's obvious there's not some crazy demand for those seats. If they are occupied it's usually by someone in opposing colors.

d) I can buy the attempt to keep support strong by not selling tickets or trying to recruit fans when tickets aren't used. But when it's such a poor product, why shouldn't a STH try to profit when its obvious THE INSTITUTION ITSELF depends and take advantage of the same demand from visiting fans?

And let me tell ya: If the season continues to go in this direction and Illinois is still in a battle for first place, I have no problem selling my extra tickets when I can barely find anyone interested enough to take them. If some crazy-*** Illinois fan wants to give me $200 on the low end for my extra $40 seats, I consider it a one-game bonus for my loyalty throughout this year.

Having said that, NU does keep track of tickets sold on StubHub.

e) The Wilson Club was sold out last year. I believe it was sold out again this year. You can't get those seats on Stub Hub.

f) If Wilson Club seats are donated back to the university to be dispersed, the school is doing a horrible job getting rid of them. My guess is it takes more than a casual fan to get a redisbursed Wilson seat through NU. Just bringing anybody into the club goes against the purpose of the Wilson Club.

In the end, you have 50% capacity in the Wilsons at most games ... at best.

g) Off-topic: No beer last night.

 

[CappyNU]

I meant to do this earlier in the season, but just looking at the Minny/PSU games on stubhub (Illinois has very little inventory), here's what I found available for both games in the lower level:

108 row 3, 4 tix
108 row 7, 6 tix
108 row 11, 7 tix
109 row 9, 7-11 tix
109 row 11, 4 tix
109, row 15 4 tix
115 row 1, 6 tix
115 row 2, 4 tix
115 row 7, 5-7 tix
101 row 1, 4 tix
101 row 2, 6 tix
101 row 3, 10 tix
101 row 8, 7 tix
106 row 10, 6 tix
110 row 14, 6 tix
114 row 6, 4 tix

That was filtering for 4+ tickets together on a listing only, so I'm sure there's others, and I'm sure these have been listed for more than these two games. Sure, this is only 1% of seats in the arena, but if this is year 2 of NU allowing these seats to be listed every game when they've shown a willingness to fix the problem for football, then they should be trying to fix it here if they care about their fans being happy vs getting the most money.

 

[bringbacktherantboard]

but if this is year 2 of NU allowing these seats to be listed every game when they've shown a willingness to fix the problem for football, then they should be trying to fix it here if they care about their fans being happy vs getting the most money.

But Northwestern really needs the money.

 

[Turk_rivals223269]

I’ve been a season ticket holder for 16 years and missed probably five games. This is the first time I’ve seriously considered not renewing and it’s not because of the performance on the court. I’ve seen countless terrible seasons. My section 212 was completely full, the catch being myself and my family were the only people not wearing Michigan gear. I kid you not, not a single Northwestern fan/supporter in 212. I make a small donation annually that gets me the first row in that section and parking, but I’m not willing to do more. Like many of you I’ve got young kids and they’re damn expensive. I already give Northwestern thousands of dollars a year for football, basketball, baseball, and concessions. It’s time to start taking care of the people who actually show up and support the program. Enough of this money grab. Tonight during the halftime show we had a spectacular performance and the poor kid was facing the Wilson Club the entire time. He was performing to 16 people who remained in their seats, while the rest excluded themselves in their elitist club. The culture here is broken worse than this team and it’s going to start pushing loyal supporters away from the program. End rant.

I am not sure what Mr Phillips is going to do but the lower bowl is ridiculously overpriced. I know peeps say that season tickets are higher at MSU and Michigan, but our program pretty much sucks and has always sucked. It is still fun going to the games but not at these awful prices. More power to Mr Phillips and his interactive agreement with stubhub. Nobody sold more tickets to michigan fans than Mr Phillips clan on stubhub from what I can tell. Big blocks of tickets in the lower bowl.

Nothing wrong with it but it pretty much just adulterates the fan support.

 

[Catreporter]

As a long-time season ticket holder, I'd rather have the place full, even with a lot of visiting fans, rather than half empty like it probably will be for Penn State and Minnesota. At least there is some energy in the building then.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

As a long-time season ticket holder, I'd rather have the place full, even with a lot of visiting fans, rather than half empty like it probably will be for Penn State and Minnesota. At least there is some energy in the building then.

Not me, sitting next to a horde of Michigan fans sucks. Give me the empty seat all day.

 

[lunker35]

Not me, sitting next to a horde of Michigan fans sucks. Give me the empty seat all day.

I have probably the best seats you can buy in the upper bowl. Even still my entire section had 3 Northwestern fans and I was related to all of them. The other 97 seats were all Michigan. That should never happen.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I have probably the best seats you can buy in the upper bowl. Even still my entire section had 3 Northwestern fans and I was related to all of them. The other 97 seats were all Michigan. That should never happen.

Agree, but that is the way of life for a small private school located in a major US city with a significant amount of alum from large neighboring state schools. It doesn’t help that heavy portion of the student population is not the least bit interested in sports.

If it’s not the worse thing about being a NU fan it comes in a close second to losing. Winning will bring in fans, not sure anything else will. I hate sitting with a boatload of the opposition and have come to enjoy away games more than home games.

 

[lunker35]

Agree, but that is the way of life for a small private school located in a major US city with a significant amount of alum from large neighboring state schools. It doesn’t help that heavy portion of the student population is not the least bit interested in sports.

If it’s not the worse thing about being a NU fan it comes in a close second to losing. Winning will bring in fans, not sure anything else will. I hate sitting with a boatload of the opposition and have come to enjoy away games more than home games.

Right, but the fact they have the tiered system based on how much money you’re willing to throw out keeps the true fans away from one another. That’s my point. The old WRR used to have huge opposing fans bases come in, but I always knew in my area I would be surrounded by Cats fans. Now there is not a single one in sight and I have to have a muted cheer half the time. Dr. Jim and his team did this and no one else.

 

[Sec_112]

... how much money you’re willing to throw out keeps the true fans away from one another. That’s my point. The old WRR used to have huge opposing fans bases come in, but I always knew in my area I would be surrounded by Cats fans ...

I like the scummy honesty of the college system (compared to professional teams) that flat-out says you pay XX dollars you can sit in XX section. With professional teams, it's an unspoken thing that usually depends on who you know and how much influence.

However, NU is different. You make a GREAT point about the limited fans being spread out. It's very true.

I hope someone from NU reads this and discusses filling up the lower bowl with NU fans at a reasonable price. The top of half of seats outside the Wilsons are nowhere near filled by NU fans. And something needs to make up for the lack of participation (there's that word again) by the Wilsons and students.

 

[BarefootCat]

The Wilson Club is a $6,000 annual donation, plus the cost of the seats (something like $1,400 per year per seat). You get food, wine and beer (similar to the United Center stadium club). For those who say those prices are too expensive, the demand is there.

For the Chicago Bears & Bulls, they have stadium clubs and tiered pricing, just so they can get more revenue on Gameday.

However, the reason for NU to have the Wilson Club is not to get the $6,000 per year (chump change to NU). The reason is to cater to the Trustees and other Big Wigs who can donate millions for buildings and named professorships and other things. NU gives those individuals a premium experience that they really enjoy, and they come to NU's campus much more often because of it. The entire NU Academic Institution benefits from the Wilson Club - it's been a huge success because it repeatedly engages lots of supporters. Those who go feel more attached to NU. It's also been a huge success, because it's a great place/atmosphere to wine-and-dine VIP media, politicians, recruits, coaches, researchers, professors, Deans, students, etc.

[Notice, the Wilson Club is not open for WBB, VB or Wrestling because those sports don't draw the same number of supporters.]

The crappy part is the lower bowl seats are empty for lots of games and the arena can feel dead. Not exactly sure how to fix - besides the usual truth that winning cures all - but (a) allowing other STH's to move down to sit there when empty or (b) allocating fewer actual seats to Wilson Club or (c) only selling the seats to those who show up, could all be part of the answer.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

I like the scummy honesty of the college system (compared to professional teams) that flat-out says you pay XX dollars you can sit in XX section. With professional teams, it's an unspoken thing that usually depends on who you know and how much influence.

However, NU is different. You make a GREAT point about the limited fans being spread out. It's very true.

I hope someone from NU reads this and discusses filling up the lower bowl with NU fans at a reasonable price. The top of half of seats outside the Wilsons are nowhere near filled by NU fans. And something needs to make up for the lack of participation (there's that word again) by the Wilsons and students.

The previous arena always closed down the hospitality NGN club room when the team was playing. When I went to the iowa game i noticed that the wilson club buffet and booze stays open. Few go down to their seats to watch the game.

 

[NJCat]

Few go down to their seats to watch the game.

Can you blame them?

 

[GatoLouco]

Mr Wickerpark said:

↑



Few go down to their seats to watch the game.

Can you blame them?
[/quote]
Not sure that area will change regardless of wins and losses.

I lived in KY for 3 years and watched probably 12 games in the suites at the KFC/YUM center. Don’t know the values now, but, 2 years ago, when Louisville was not even good, they were purchased for $100k a year. That did not include food, drinks, or even tickets for said boxes. Each ticket was $60. Coca Cola, Pepsi, The Lottery, entities like that purchase them.

The boxes have a “living room” with a small couch, fridge, 4 stools, a table with food, you get the idea. Then you walk down a few steps to two rows of cushioned sets. Holding probably 16-20 people. I’d say average number of people sitting, maybe 4. Average number of people in the living room area, probably 16.

These are not big fans of the game itself. A lot more interested in chatting, networking, hanging out, eating, than actually watching the game.