Talent ranking

torque-cat

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Dec 11, 2018
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Again I'd say that our overall talent is far ahead of what we have seen with NU in the past. I don't think CC uses his talent as creatively as BC and his stars are certainly no better than BCs, but he certainly has better top to bottom talent. When a guy like Nance or Beran can comfortably come off the bench instead of be a focal point that is saying something.

Here is my player ranking based on 1 extremely limited game (plus some information from last year)

1. Kopp: He has a lot of limitations but he is big, strong, good athlete and his 3 pt shot will keep us in some big ten games.

2. Audige: Maybe a mini-Geno Carlisle? Better athlete, not as pure a scorer but a good offensive player and good defensive player I think. Plays with confidence, which we need.

3. Beran: This is mostly a talent ranking as he hasn't shown it in productivity. But he's got the most physical and basketball talent on the team in my view. Most likely to get a Free agent look in the NBA a la Vic Law. Not quite as athletic but taller and prettier shot.

4. Buie: Didn't show that much yesterday, but he did have a couple nice classic finishes at the rim that only he can do on this team. Nice handle, showed some playmaking ability, plays with confidence. If he can get hot 30% of games rather than 10% of games, he'll be a beast.

5. Young: Not pretty but flat out effective in the post. Good footwork, fundamentals, puts the ball in the basket, doesn't make big mistakes.

6. Nance: Most physical talent other than Beran, but still doesn't seem to know what to do with it. Nice player to give us a stretch 5 option and once in a while he starts feeling it and makes plays. If he had confidence of Buie or Audige he'd be a beast.

7. Greer: I have always thought the kid is much better than people give him credit for. He gets the white kid bias in my view (and I'm not white). He plays hard, moves his feet very well on defense, stays in front of guys as well as anyone on the team, and showed good passing ability. I've heard he's an amazing worker and team guy. His body language always stays upbeat no matter what is happening and if he's on the bench. This stuff matters.

8. Berry: Limited athletically, but his 3 pt shot looks sweet. He may be our Duncan Robinson if things go well forcing teams to really defend Kopp and him aggressively and opening up options for Audige, Buie, Young, Beran etc..

9. Gaines: Athleticism and toughness are there and good defense. Just so limited on offense that teams don't guard him on the outside. On a team with limited offense it's challenging to put him out there. He will very likely move up this list but I don't like teams playing us 5 on 4 on defense and just letting him sit in the corner. But wouldn't be a shocker that he reaches top 5 in big ten season 'cause he's a tough, athletic player that we will need.

10. Nicholson: Looks like a taller, longer version of Ryan Young. Which is not at all a bad thing. His sweet pass to the cutter makes me think of him could go the direction of the the high IQ Euro big man mold. Albeit Michigan is not quite Europe.
 

7th Cir. Cat

Redshirt
Jul 25, 2006
2,171
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[QUOTE="torque-cat, post: 788134, member: 30794"

8. Berry: Limited athletically, but his 3 pt shot looks sweet. He may be our Duncan Robinson if things go well forcing teams to really defend Kopp and him aggressively and opening up options for Audige, Buie, Young, Beran etc..

[/QUOTE]

Bro . .. Did you just say that Ty Berry may be our Duncan Robinson? Duncan Robinson averaged 15 points a game last season IN THE NBA FOR A TEAM THAT WENT TO THE NBA FINALS!! We haven't had anyone on NU that did something like that in 100 years!!!
 

clarificationcat

Sophomore
Jan 25, 2005
3,301
183
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[QUOTE="torque-cat, post: 788134, member: 30794"

8. Berry: Limited athletically, but his 3 pt shot looks sweet. He may be our Duncan Robinson if things go well forcing teams to really defend Kopp and him aggressively and opening up options for Audige, Buie, Young, Beran etc..

Bro . .. Did you just say that Ty Berry may be our Duncan Robinson? Duncan Robinson averaged 15 points a game last season IN THE NBA FOR A TEAM THAT WENT TO THE NBA FINALS!! We haven't had anyone on NU that did something like that in 100 years!!!
[/QUOTE]

Berry looks like he has a great stroke and that will definitely earn him minutes.

If Berry were only 5 inches taller...
 

No Chores

Senior
Jul 2, 2006
6,708
495
83
Again I'd say that our overall talent is far ahead of what we have seen with NU in the past. I don't think CC uses his talent as creatively as BC and his stars are certainly no better than BCs, but he certainly has better top to bottom talent. When a guy like Nance or Beran can comfortably come off the bench instead of be a focal point that is saying something.

Here is my player ranking based on 1 extremely limited game (plus some information from last year)

1. Kopp: He has a lot of limitations but he is big, strong, good athlete and his 3 pt shot will keep us in some big ten games.

2. Audige: Maybe a mini-Geno Carlisle? Better athlete, not as pure a scorer but a good offensive player and good defensive player I think. Plays with confidence, which we need.

3. Beran: This is mostly a talent ranking as he hasn't shown it in productivity. But he's got the most physical and basketball talent on the team in my view. Most likely to get a Free agent look in the NBA a la Vic Law. Not quite as athletic but taller and prettier shot.

4. Buie: Didn't show that much yesterday, but he did have a couple nice classic finishes at the rim that only he can do on this team. Nice handle, showed some playmaking ability, plays with confidence. If he can get hot 30% of games rather than 10% of games, he'll be a beast.

5. Young: Not pretty but flat out effective in the post. Good footwork, fundamentals, puts the ball in the basket, doesn't make big mistakes.

6. Nance: Most physical talent other than Beran, but still doesn't seem to know what to do with it. Nice player to give us a stretch 5 option and once in a while he starts feeling it and makes plays. If he had confidence of Buie or Audige he'd be a beast.

7. Greer: I have always thought the kid is much better than people give him credit for. He gets the white kid bias in my view (and I'm not white). He plays hard, moves his feet very well on defense, stays in front of guys as well as anyone on the team, and showed good passing ability. I've heard he's an amazing worker and team guy. His body language always stays upbeat no matter what is happening and if he's on the bench. This stuff matters.

8. Berry: Limited athletically, but his 3 pt shot looks sweet. He may be our Duncan Robinson if things go well forcing teams to really defend Kopp and him aggressively and opening up options for Audige, Buie, Young, Beran etc..

9. Gaines: Athleticism and toughness are there and good defense. Just so limited on offense that teams don't guard him on the outside. On a team with limited offense it's challenging to put him out there. He will very likely move up this list but I don't like teams playing us 5 on 4 on defense and just letting him sit in the corner. But wouldn't be a shocker that he reaches top 5 in big ten season 'cause he's a tough, athletic player that we will need.

10. Nicholson: Looks like a taller, longer version of Ryan Young. Which is not at all a bad thing. His sweet pass to the cutter makes me think of him could go the direction of the the high IQ Euro big man mold. Albeit Michigan is not quite Europe.
Really like every aspect of this evaluation. Nice job.
 

torque-cat

Redshirt
Dec 11, 2018
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[QUOTE="torque-cat, post: 788134, member: 30794"

8. Berry: Limited athletically, but his 3 pt shot looks sweet. He may be our Duncan Robinson if things go well forcing teams to really defend Kopp and him aggressively and opening up options for Audige, Buie, Young, Beran etc..

Bro . .. Did you just say that Ty Berry may be our Duncan Robinson? Duncan Robinson averaged 15 points a game last season IN THE NBA FOR A TEAM THAT WENT TO THE NBA FINALS!! We haven't had anyone on NU that did something like that in 100 years!!!
[/QUOTE]

Bro' do you get that he could be "our" Duncan Robinson, not actually Duncan Robinson. A guy who is a 3 point specialist that requires constant attention from the defense even if he's limited in other phases. That sounds like what Robinson is in the NBA and what Berry could be for us.
 

Titanium999

Redshirt
Jan 16, 2014
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I'm shocked at how good Greer looked. I thought he wouldn't play much at all this year! Now he looks to earn 15 plus minutes a game. I think Kopp is our best player by far! Future Pro!
 

torque-cat

Redshirt
Dec 11, 2018
1,234
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As compared to Airplane Mode? Sure. But he’s a fine athlete. Give it time.

I'm sure he'll be fine. I think he'll be a nice shooter for us and hopefully contribute in other ways. Just reporting it as I'm seeing it now.
 

7th Cir. Cat

Redshirt
Jul 25, 2006
2,171
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Bro . .. Did you just say that Ty Berry may be our Duncan Robinson? Duncan Robinson averaged 15 points a game last season IN THE NBA FOR A TEAM THAT WENT TO THE NBA FINALS!! We haven't had anyone on NU that did something like that in 100 years!!!

Bro' do you get that he could be "our" Duncan Robinson, not actually Duncan Robinson. A guy who is a 3 point specialist that requires constant attention from the defense even if he's limited in other phases. That sounds like what Robinson is in the NBA and what Berry could be for us.
[/QUOTE]

This seems like a real stretch and I don’t see the comparison. First of all, DR is like 6’7. What is Berry, 6’1, 6’2?

Do you follow the NBA? Did you see the finals game against Lakers where DR dropped 25 points in the Heat win? We don’t have anyone on the roster who projects to do anything remotely like that.
 

torque-cat

Redshirt
Dec 11, 2018
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Bro' do you get that he could be "our" Duncan Robinson, not actually Duncan Robinson. A guy who is a 3 point specialist that requires constant attention from the defense even if he's limited in other phases. That sounds like what Robinson is in the NBA and what Berry could be for us.

This seems like a real stretch and I don’t see the comparison. First of all, DR is like 6’7. What is Berry, 6’1, 6’2?

Do you follow the NBA? Did you see the finals game against Lakers where DR dropped 25 points in the Heat win? We don’t have anyone on the roster who projects to do anything remotely like that.
[/QUOTE]

😘
 
May 29, 2001
2,860
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“Albeit Michigan is not quite Europe.”

Money quote!

True, but the program Nicholson came out of, Clarkston, historically has been one of the very best in the state with respect to teaching fundamentals at early ages. In HS he was adept at inside-out play and finding the shooter (who recently committed to Purdue). I didn't see him shoot from outside in HS but I think that could develop over time. I was shocked he didn't attract more recruiting attention in the state, but he wasn't the only overlooked big man in the state last year.
 

willycat

Junior
Jan 11, 2005
21,448
318
0
True, but the program Nicholson came out of, Clarkston, historically has been one of the very best in the state with respect to teaching fundamentals at early ages. In HS he was adept at inside-out play and finding the shooter (who recently committed to Purdue). I didn't see him shoot from outside in HS but I think that could develop over time. I was shocked he didn't attract more recruiting attention in the state, but he wasn't the only overlooked big man in the state last year.
Hope he develops quickly as I think we have seen all Young has to offer and it won't help a lot vs. top teams.
 

torque-cat

Redshirt
Dec 11, 2018
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Hope he develops quickly as I think we have seen all Young has to offer and it won't help a lot vs. top teams.

I thought Young was surprisingly effective playing against arguably the best line-up of big men that any conference has had in many years. He is not a superstar but just flat out effective. Nicholson doesn't show dramatically greater talent--perhaps taller and longer--so don't think he's a savior. If one of them could develop a 40% 3 pt shot that could be a game-changer though.
 

Sec_112

Sophomore
Jun 17, 2001
6,599
195
63
Based on UAPB, I'd put Buie in my top three, and arguably number one. He was seeing the floor incredibly well. He got to the basket and had some great assists that I don't think the average lead guard makes.

But yes, a couple poor decisions also.

I was also pretty disappointed in Gaines' game. But it's only one game.

The question for me is who are your five in the final minutes of a tight game. Boo and Kopp are automatic for me. Hopefully Audige plays like that against Michigan State also.

It will be a battle between Nance, Beran and Young for the last two spots
 

torque-cat

Redshirt
Dec 11, 2018
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Based on UAPB, I'd put Buie in my top three, and arguably number one. He was seeing the floor incredibly well. He got to the basket and had some great assists that I don't think the average lead guard makes.

But yes, a couple poor decisions also.

I was also pretty disappointed in Gaines' game. But it's only one game.

The question for me is who are your five in the final minutes of a tight game. Boo and Kopp are automatic for me. Hopefully Audige plays like that against Michigan State also.

It will be a battle between Nance, Beran and Young for the last two spots

Based on limited info our closing line up is Buie, Audige, Kopp, Beran and Young. Nance if he is playing well but Young is much more reliable. Berry if he’s hot or we need 3 pt shooting but not sure who he’d replace. Beran and Kopp can hit the 3 and offer more size, versatility and experience.
 

NUThump

Redshirt
May 29, 2001
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Based on limited info our closing line up is Buie, Audige, Kopp, Beran and Young. Nance if he is playing well but Young is much more reliable. Berry if he’s hot or we need 3 pt shooting but not sure who he’d replace. Beran and Kopp can hit the 3 and offer more size, versatility and experience.
I would swap Beran for Nance in that closing 5. Nance is better on the defensive side, which gives him the nod in my mind.
 

torque-cat

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Dec 11, 2018
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I think Nance fouls too much and I don't see a huge difference on defense. But Beran can hit the 3 pt shot and plays with more confidence. At the end of the game you need guys to be able to put the ball in the basket, something we have too often lacked causing us to lose close games.
 
Sep 9, 2015
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I think Nance fouls too much and I don't see a huge difference on defense. But Beran can hit the 3 pt shot and plays with more confidence. At the end of the game you need guys to be able to put the ball in the basket, something we have too often lacked causing us to lose close games.
Nance is easily the best “big guy” defender on the team. It’s not close. He’s so long.
 

Sec_112

Sophomore
Jun 17, 2001
6,599
195
63
I entered the season wondering if Nance is pretty strictly a defense and rebounding guy. Maybe a few buckets here and there.

The BTN announcers reported the coaches are still expecting big things out of him. I wondering if that's just not him. We'll see.

Anyhow, at this point, even his "floor" offers a nice contribution. Let's hope he gets to the ballpark of his top-60 ceiling.
 

torque-cat

Redshirt
Dec 11, 2018
1,234
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Nance can hit the 3 too you know. Stroke looked good the other night.

Yes he can, but last year he hit 29.7% from 3 and Beran hit 40% from 3. So for now he is not a good shooter from 3 until he proves otherwise.
 

SimpsonElmwood

Sophomore
Nov 20, 2004
1,820
141
63
This year’s team shoots so much better than last year’s. When Young is on the floor, he will have more room to operate underneath compared to a year ago. Audige and Berry add a lot and both Nance and Beran look better. Beran looks like he’s made a quantum leap.

As tough as it will be, I’m looking forward to the B1G season.
 

techtim72

Senior
May 10, 2010
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"8. Berry: Limited athletically, but his 3 pt shot looks sweet. He may be our Duncan Robinson if things go well forcing teams to really defend Kopp and him aggressively and opening up options for Audige, Buie, Young, Beran etc.."

Why do you think Berry is limited athletically?
 

docrugby1

Senior
Jun 16, 2010
6,821
434
58
NU's talent level is higher than any team in recent memory but after watching a lot of college games in the last 10 days, NU is going to have to develop an offense that will generate good shots against good defenses. As tall as NU is ,they do not play big or physical and will have to rely on mid-range and 3 point shooting. Audige seems to have a scorers mentality, as does Buie unfortunately but Kopp , Beran and Nance need a dynamic playmaker to draw double teams , creating space for open shots. There does not seem to be any change in NU's half court offense ,which has been disappointing for years. This team with McIntosh would be really good, possibly Buie or Berry can develop into that type of guard. NU simply needs some easy baskets in the half court I am not sure man to man will hold up in the front court with more dynamic players

The B1G teams appear to be very good . NU may be a lot better than last year but the competition in the league will be brutal

I did not see CSU and these comments are based on UAP
 

SDakaGordie

Sophomore
Dec 29, 2016
2,359
161
53
NU's talent level is higher than any team in recent memory but after watching a lot of college games in the last 10 days, NU is going to have to develop an offense that will generate good shots against good defenses. As tall as NU is ,they do not play big or physical and will have to rely on mid-range and 3 point shooting. Audige seems to have a scorers mentality, as does Buie unfortunately but Kopp , Beran and Nance need a dynamic playmaker to draw double teams , creating space for open shots. There does not seem to be any change in NU's half court offense ,which has been disappointing for years. This team with McIntosh would be really good, possibly Buie or Berry can develop into that type of guard. NU simply needs some easy baskets in the half court I am not sure man to man will hold up in the front court with more dynamic players

The B1G teams appear to be very good . NU may be a lot better than last year but the competition in the league will be brutal

I did not see CSU and these comments are based on UAP
I think this hits the mark. It’s all about the guard play creating opportunities for others. BMac had so much better vision and more consistent long range shooting than does Buie. Spencer had great vision, but just wasn’t as consistent a long-range scoring threat to make defenses honest. I really like Collins’ guard recruits coming in next year, so I am personally giving him the benefit of the doubt until then.