Tengwall podcast:

[PSUFTG]

There are always things that can be debated in the margins - but this is absolutely the best sand most thorough synopsis of any of the "talking heads" to date:
Why The Firing Of James Franklin Was Not An Impulsive Decision

 

[84lion]

Never wise to go over the boss' head.

 

[TheBigUglies]

That kind of makes sense. Franklin wanted to be loyal to the player that were loyal to Penn State. Some good examples thru the years. However, Kraft wants to win now and loyalty is out the window. Franklin wanted to keep the Penn State way(sort of like JoePa) but Kraft wants to win now and could care less about the Penn State way. Also, Franklin(or his reps) should have never went over Krafts head when Kraft said no which sounds like it was the beginning of the end. That being said, how truly loyal was Franklin being not putting the kids who were loyal to him in a position to win? Lets give someone playing time even though they are not the best player at that position and overall would not make the team successful? I don't know I am sure there is more to the story. What a shiite show. Nothing to do but move on to the next game. If you're not winning you're learning.

 

[NoSoup4U]

What I find curious is if you look at how JF jumped everywhere job to job you almost got a sense either never satisfied or just checked boxes without really learning anything

I get coaches move around, do what they need to move up the ladder, but this seems his mentality in everything==> just move onto the next thing without digesting what has transpired or learning from the experience.

The audacity to ask for an extension without really doing much of anything except treading water, as it where, speaks to that he doesn't analyze what has occurred and applies that knowledge to what's coming next, its just about==> what's next 1-0 anyone?? how about 3-3 anyone!!

the performance over the body was good enough to tread water, but start poking the bear that what you are getting is not good enough without realizing that you need to produce once in while. (probably how he hoodwinked Dandy Sandy), His misaligned goals obfuscated the reality that it was the "put up or shut up" phase he was in professionally.

 

[PSUFTG]

That kind of makes sense. Franklin wanted to be loyal to the player that were loyal to Penn State. Some good examples thru the years. However, Kraft wants to win now and loyalty is out the window. Franklin wanted to keep the Penn State way(sort of like JoePa) but Kraft wants to win now and could care less about the Penn State way. Also, Franklin(or his reps) should have never went over Krafts head when Kraft said no which sounds like it was the beginning of the end. That being said, how truly loyal was Franklin being not putting the kids who were loyal to him in a position to win? Lets give someone playing time even though they are not the best player at that position and overall would not make the team successful? I don't know I am sure there is more to the story. What a shiite show. Nothing to do but move on to the next game. If you're not winning you're learning.

Some reasoned interpretations.

Just one add on:

There is very little about the manner in which HCJF managed the football program that would be congruent to the operation under JVP. But that's a discussion for another day.

 

[PSUFTG]

What I find curious is if you look at how JF jumped everywhere job to job you almost got a sense either never satisfied or just checked boxes without really learning anything

I get coaches move around, do what they need to move up the ladder, but this seems his mentality in everything==> just move onto the next thing without digesting what has transpired or learning from the experience.

The audacity to ask for an extension without really doing much of anything except treading water, as it where, speaks to that he doesn't analyze what has occurred and applies that knowledge to what's coming next, its just about==> what's next 1-0 anyone?? how about 3-3 anyone!!

the performance over the body was good enough to tread water, but start poking the bear that what you are getting is not good enough without realizing that you need to produce once in while. (probably how he hoodwinked Dandy Sandy), His misaligned goals obfuscated the reality that it was the "put up or shut up" phase he was in professionally.

The analogy that I always found helpful (and illustrative):

Over the years, the positives HCJF achieved (and there were positives) allowed him to build a bit of a dam. That dam allowed the headwaters of "not positive things" (and there were those too) to be contained - and prevented a flood.

But those waters, in recent years, definitely continued to build behind the dam - and the dam was under a lot of stress and beginning to crack. Since spring 2025, the cracks were really starting to be stressed, and the pressure building from more and more water behind the dam.

When it broke, it REALLY broke. And it was all over - aside from picking the specific time and date for the flood. (The fact that it came this soon and this dramatically? I don't know if anyone anticipated that. I surely did not. Honestly, it shocked the *** out of me))

 

[Catch1lion]

Definitely need a GM to balance the roster and salaries in this day and age.

 

[m.knox]

That being said, how truly loyal was Franklin being not putting the kids who were loyal to him in a position to win?

First thing that entered my mind as well. Are you really going to (potentially) lose ballgames to support someone's NFL aspirations? When they aren't contributing at a high level?

Well, we'll see in about 53 hours because it will be plainly obvious by who is getting the snaps.

 

[84lion]

There is very little about the manner in which HCJF managed the football program that would be congruent to the operation under JVP. But that's a discussion for another day.

I wonder sometimes how a guy like Paterno would handle all of the changes we've seen (even since Franklin took the reins). NIL, portal, playoffs...my suspicion is that Paterno would have retired had all that transpired under his watch. Even Saban quit Alabama, he'd had enough.

Ultimately, I think Franklin was a nice guy, good ambassador for the university, which was needed after the Sandusky mess. Franklin thrived under that, with the management that hired him and that he worked for, and managed to build an impressive "body of work." In this day and age, though, that's obviously not enough if your AD has it in his head that "we're winning a NC this year." Franklin just couldn't make it happen...and I think Kraft knew that.

 

[donaldfair71]

I wonder sometimes how a guy like Paterno would handle all of the changes we've seen (even since Franklin took the reins). NIL, portal, playoffs...my suspicion is that Paterno would have retired had all that transpired under his watch. Even Saban quit Alabama, he'd had enough.

Ultimately, I think Franklin was a nice guy, good ambassador for the university, which was needed after the Sandusky mess. Franklin thrived under that, with the management that hired him and that he worked for, and managed to build an impressive "body of work." In this day and age, though, that's obviously not enough if your AD has it in his head that "we're winning a NC this year." Franklin just couldn't make it happen...and I think Kraft knew that.

You’ve seen how Joe would handle it. He’d have done what Bob Knight did, Jay Wright, like you said, Saban did. “Game ain’t in me no more”.

 

[PSUFTG]

I wonder sometimes how a guy like Paterno would handle all of the changes we've seen (even since Franklin took the reins). NIL, portal, playoffs...my suspicion is that Paterno would have retired had all that transpired under his watch. Even Saban quit Alabama, he'd had enough.

Ultimately, I think Franklin was a nice guy, good ambassador for the university, which was needed after the Sandusky mess. Franklin thrived under that, with the management that hired him and that he worked for, and managed to build an impressive "body of work." In this day and age, though, that's obviously not enough if your AD has it in his head that "we're winning a NC this year." Franklin just couldn't make it happen...and I think Kraft knew that.

I expect Franklin will be out of work for exactly how many days he chooses to be - and no more. That probably sums things up (that is meant as a positive)

 

[donaldfair71]

First thing that entered my mind as well. Are you really going to (potentially) lose ballgames to support someone's NFL aspirations? When they aren't contributing at a high level?

Well, we'll see in about 53 hours because it will be plainly obvious by who is getting the snaps.

His loyalty as the football coach at Penn State is to win as many games as possible within the rules.
Loyal to anything that gets in the way of doing so isn’t doing what he’s hired to do.

 

[Ram20]

I wonder sometimes how a guy like Paterno would handle all of the changes we've seen (even since Franklin took the reins). NIL, portal, playoffs...my suspicion is that Paterno would have retired had all that transpired under his watch. Even Saban quit Alabama, he'd had enough.

Ultimately, I think Franklin was a nice guy, good ambassador for the university, which was needed after the Sandusky mess. Franklin thrived under that, with the management that hired him and that he worked for, and managed to build an impressive "body of work." In this day and age, though, that's obviously not enough if your AD has it in his head that "we're winning a NC this year." Franklin just couldn't make it happen...and I think Kraft knew that.

Yeah, good post. A lot of the other stuff just seems superfluous, politics, "the life and times" of super arrogant and successful men operating in a high pressure situation with real money at stake. After Oregon, even the most ardent defenders of Franklin knew he was never going to win big games, just not a good enough football coach in the pure sense. Many of them retreated to "so what, 10, 11 win seasons is good enough" considering or "It could be worse." Which is fine, I guess, if not totally emasculating. Kraft certainly knew, empirically, Franklin was never getting over the hump. Maybe some of these little behind the scenes quibbles about loyalty to certain players helped form that philosophy that Franklin didn't have the killer instinct to win the whole enchilada. If your Boss wants to be the best and knows you aren't it.....a separation is looming.....maybe it's that simple.

 

[BiochemPSU]

That kind of makes sense. Franklin wanted to be loyal to the player that were loyal to Penn State. Some good examples thru the years. However, Kraft wants to win now and loyalty is out the window. Franklin wanted to keep the Penn State way(sort of like JoePa) but Kraft wants to win now and could care less about the Penn State way. Also, Franklin(or his reps) should have never went over Krafts head when Kraft said no which sounds like it was the beginning of the end. That being said, how truly loyal was Franklin being not putting the kids who were loyal to him in a position to win? Lets give someone playing time even though they are not the best player at that position and overall would not make the team successful? I don't know I am sure there is more to the story. What a shiite show. Nothing to do but move on to the next game. If you're not winning you're learning.

I don't think it is really about loyalty. It's about how in this new era a coach puts the team together every after year, and how it impacts the level of control and marketing he has over his recruited players from year to year. Franklin doesn't want to pay transfer guys more than his recruited guys because that will cause people to leave or cause chaos in the locker room, and he doesn't want the recruited guys to have their NFL draft stock fall because the transfer guys will play over them and expose them as not as good. I sympathize with that predicament, but Franklin bet on the wrong horse. When your recruited guys failed, you ultimately had to pay the price for their failure. And that's the beauty of the portal and where today's coaches need to be honest with recruits: "I'll take care of your son, but you need to understand that this is a business, not a school. I'm asking you to come play for my minor league football team. If I can find someone better than you, that's the end of your run here. The portal is right over there and by the way, supposedly, you are here for a free degree; make sure you get that before you portal yourself right out of college."

 

[MtNittany]

Can CJF go to lets say Arkansas for $1M/year and have PSU pay the other $7M/year or are there safeguards in place to not allow that?

 

[Catch1lion]

I expect Franklin will be out of work for exactly how many days he chooses to be - and no more. That probably sums things up (that is meant as a positive)

Already set up for a College Gameday interview this Saturday. Damage control, marketing ? Stay tuned.


Penn State fired James Franklin on Oct. 12. On Oct. 16, ESPN announced that the the former leader of the Lions, who spent 11.5 season at the helm of the program, will join its ‘College Gameday’ program this Saturday for what it is billing as “an exclusive interview, his first since being relieved of his head coaching duties on October 12.”

The network did not say when Franklin’s interview would air. But, it will take place on set in Athens, Ga. The ‘College GameDay’ crew will broadcast their show live from Myers Quad before No. 5 Ole Miss takes on the No. 9 Bulldogs.

 

[PSUFTG]

Can CJF go to lets say Arkansas for $1M/year and have PSU pay the other $7M/year
NO

or are there safeguards in place to not allow that?
YES (so long as PSU is not so fiduciarily negligent as to not enforce them)

 

[ApexLion]

Can CJF go to lets say Arkansas for $1M/year and have PSU pay the other $7M/year or are there safeguards in place to not allow that?

Theoretically yes but his agent isn't taking a $1M deal from a power conference school.

 

[Texas Lion]

Is this possible:

1. James back channels for a new deal in the summer and gets caught.
2. He then knows at that time he and Kraft can no longer coexist.
3. He can resign and leave a ton of money on the table.
4. He then decides to go for it and suffers that Oregon defeat.
5. Following the Oregon game he wants out and he wants out now. Therefore we get no energy James (Covid James).
6. Forces Krafts hand to fire him.
7. James gets out of Penn State, doesn't look like he quit, and still gets his money.

 

[BobPSU92]

Theoretically yes but his agent isn't taking a $1M deal from a power conference school.

$1 MM buys half the state of arkansas. Maybe Franklin should ask for $500k.

 

[Moogy]

The accusation that Franklin went over Kraft's head (I would assume, without telling him he was going to do so) would be troublesome, obviously. That would fracture a relationship.

Tengwall bobbles the whole "loyalty" accusation, along with the accusation that Franklin wasn't willing to spend. He's talking about Franklin not wanting to spend to bring in young talent. But he spent to bring in older guys at receiver. Then Tengwall speculates that Franklin was loyal to these guys? Guys he allegedly didn't want? Or did he really want these guys? Wouldn't he have loyalty to the younger guys who had been on the roster for longer? Seems like he's just spitballing there, and doesn't have any real info, and can't really nail down the logic and premises of his argument.

 

[ApexLion]

$1 MM buys half the state of arkansas. Maybe Franklin should ask for $500k.

I saw one of the biggest homes I've ever seen in North Little Rock on the river. Looked like a British castle. The haves and the have nots over there.

 

[NoSoup4U]

I saw one of the biggest homes I've ever seen in North Little Rock on the river. Looked like a British castle. The haves and the have nots over there.

It is after all Walton family country

 

[PSUSignore]

Can CJF go to lets say Arkansas for $1M/year and have PSU pay the other $7M/year or are there safeguards in place to not allow that?

I've read that these offset clauses typically include some language about the next job needing to have pay commensurate for the role, or something like that. So a program would have to pay him at least in the ballpark of what would be expected for that role, per past history and current job market factors. Otherwise schools would offer him $1 and let PSU pay the $7.9M.

As for the specifics in Franklin's contract, we can only guess.

 

[WestSideLion]

Theoretically yes but his agent isn't taking a $1M deal from a power conference school.

The average Power 4 head coach makes $6.2 million per season. No way can he take an SEC or B1G HC job at $1 million a year.

 

[Sharkies]

Is this possible:

1. James back channels for a new deal in the summer and gets caught.
2. He then knows at that time he and Kraft can no longer coexist.
3. He can resign and leave a ton of money on the table.
4. He then decides to go for it and suffers that Oregon defeat.
5. Following the Oregon game he wants out and he wants out now. Therefore we get no energy James (Covid James).
6. Forces Krafts hand to fire him.
7. James gets out of Penn State, doesn't look like he quit, and still gets his money.

I think this is very possible.

 

[Headlock]

My take-away from Tengwall is the opposing philosophies. In my words, CJF wanted the contract extension because he told Kraft we have the best team ever...good enough to win the natty. Kraft said, show me first and then we can talk contract. CJF thought he could leverage the boss with all players returning and Kraft wanted tangible evidence. CJF wasn't chancing the contract on winning and Kraft was. The rest is both guys following their respective philosophies with CJF being naive to think he could out-maneuver the boss.

 

[WestSideLion]

My take-away from Tengwall is the opposing philosophies. In my words, CJF wanted the contract extension because he told Kraft we have the best team ever...good enough to win the natty. Kraft said, show me first and then we can talk contract. CJF thought he could leverage the boss with all players returning and Kraft wanted tangible evidence. CJF wasn't chancing the contract on winning and Kraft was. The rest is both guys following their respective philosophies with CJF being naive to think he could out-maneuver the boss.

If you go behind the boss’ back, then you 1) better be damned sure you can get away with it or 2) be prepared for retaliation at the first possible moment.