The "End" of the Twins vs Ulis/Booker Talk

[Allan Brewer]

Ulis and Booker, for all their skill and enthusiasm, are the two prime beneficiaries of Aaron and Andrew's return to college this year

The Twins have greatly compressed the learning curve for the two younger players, giving them a HUGE advantage in learning this offense, dealing with the distractions of being a Kentucky ball player and understanding what it takes to win at this level

Enough of this Ulis and Booker need to start crap

Their success is a direct results of what Aaron and Andrew bring to the table

Without it the two freshmen would not be anywhere as successful on the court or off of it

Tyler and Devon are STANDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS

 

[kentuckyrld]

It may be a long time before Kentucky fans understand just how good a player Andrew Harrison actually is. He is not flashy but he is efficient and he is a leader. This team would be nowhere nearly as good without him. When it comes to crunch time in a big tournament game I want him handling the ball and directing traffic. He has been there and has proven his worth. Nothing even need be said about Aaron Harrison. Anyone who doubts his ability simply hasn't watched him play over the last two years. I would hate to think where this year's team (and last year) would be without him.

 

[TNCatfanforever]

Aaron is a great shooter, Andrew can run the team. He is not flashy and probably not an NBA guy but both of them are the reason teams struggle to score in us. Their strength and length.

 

[throatpoker]

Yes, very insightful press conference by frank martin, wasn't it?

 

[DDS62]

Andrew is a good to average point guard with exceptional height. I wouldn't want to think what this team would be without him either. But who here would want to think what it would be without Booker or Ulis, two of our offensive threats? This team is not preforming like the dominate team it was at the beginning of the season. We are preforming like a defensive powerhouse that is covering for a limited offense. Poy kept the middle open for the bigs.

 

[Kampus Korner_rivals164031]

I agree with your point that this message board should lay off of its criticism of the Harrison twins. It is surely not their fault that their performance does not match up to the expectations created by so called recruiting wizards. Likewise, I'm sure that the Harrison's significantly helped the two freshman guards learn how to play in Coach Cal's system and compete in the college game. However, it is also obvious that both Booker and Ulis have major talent that would have allowed them to excel with or without such assistance. Finally, of course, it is merely wishful thinking to believe that the discussion about which guards should be receiving more playing time will cease particularly if Ulis and Booker keep up their outstanding play. Still, criticizing our own players should be off limits on this particular message board which is often examined by anti UK sportswriters and other UK haters who take great delight in "stirring the pot" by pointing to the rants of UK fans which can give UK and/or Coach Cal a bad image. We certainly don't need to be feeding the haters.

 

[J.C.D.M.]

Originally posted by throatpoker:
Yes, very insightful press conference by frank martin, wasn't it?

Actually it's been brought up, mentioned and discussed before the Martin press conference, but, yes, it was very insightful.

 

[throatpoker]

Originally posted by J.C.D.M.:

Originally posted by throatpoker:
Yes, very insightful press conference by frank martin, wasn't it?

Actually it's been brought up, mentioned and discussed before the Martin press conference, but, yes, it was very insightful. Of course it has, but the op posts as if it's something profound, "the end". It didn't stop with the previous 100 discussions around the same point, why would it now?

 

[Raptureme]

Originally posted by TNCatfanforever:
Aaron is a great shooter, Andrew can run the team. He is not flashy and probably not an NBA guy but both of them are the reason teams struggle to score in us. Their strength and length.

Not sure I'd categorize Aaron as a 'great' shooter......Career at UK says 41% overall shooting and 34% from '3'

OK I guess but not great

 

[Kampus Korner_rivals164031]

Obviously, the discussion about which guards should play more will not abate so long as the statistics reflected in this article continue.

Guard Controversy

 

[KyFaninNC]

Originally posted by Kampus Korner:
Obviously, the discussion about which guards should play more will not abate so long as the statistics reflected in this article continue.

Clearly the stats confirm that Booker and Ulis are better and the offense is better with them. But, I am of the opinion,if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Nothing wrong with the minutes each are getting now. Clearly the twins bring something that Ulis and Booker don't. So, I have no issue with the way things are now.

If the twins have a bad game,we have Ulis,Booker and Dom to put in, if Ulis and Booker have a bad game,we have the twins. I doubt all 5 of those guys will have a bad game at the same time. Kind of a nice problem to have.

Clearly Andrew is not living up to expectations. But the hating and bashing serves no purpose. On the flip side, legit criticism of his play is fair,and to bash/hate on a poster that has criticism of any player,as long as it is respectful serves no purpose,either.

 

[Rhavic]

Ya know, sometimes I wonder what this fan base won't complain about. We have by far the deepest team in terms of talent? "Cal uh startin' da wrong players! Far Cal!"
Poor us, we have a point guard who led us to the national title game as a freshman running the show ever-so-slightly more-so than our current freshman point guard, who has been nothing but happy about his current role on this team.

We loved the game that Andrew had against Alabama, why? Because the other players in the group were hitting their shots. Aaron didn't put up 15 shots in that game, but instead, put up 4 and hit 2. Andrew makes a good pass into the lane, and the bigs move the ball around well in the post, makes Andrew look much better. It's a team effort. When our offense all comes together like it will, because it always does (despite it staying high in the rankings all season in terms of efficiency), I promise you all, Andrew will look like a totally different point guard just because our offense is moving the ball around well and making shots.
Andrew's draft stock will rely entirely on how the people around him play. He has the size, he has the skillset, he has shown that he can facilitate the ball well, he plays good defense. He just needs to play a little more aggressively, and the people around him need to keep the ball moving, and move well without the ball.
It'll all come together for him though, still a lot of basketball to be played.

 

[.S&C.]

^^Give me one poster, ONE, who ever said "far cal!" It's the dumbest statement ever made on this board. Stop trying to make the fanbase look bad with your hyperbole just adding on useless junk that isn't said doesn't help.

What's really funny is seeinf all the posters that get bent out of shape over, what, a handful (maybe) of posters bashing (some of it isn't even bashing) andrew.

I think lots of people are getting irritated at 1 or 2 posters then tend to blow it out of proportion like its a huge block of posters. It's not.

There's a thread somewhere from yesterday with at least 50 replies giving Andrew Props. There were maybe 1 or 2 posters bashing him in the entire thread. Yet, of course, like money, the "STOP BASHING ANDREW" crowd came running. Proclaiming this "fanbase" is a mirror image of a couple post

This post was edited on 1/25 12:06 PM by .S&C.

 

[CB3UK]

I'm damn sure glad Andrew plays for Kentucky and not against.

 

[WildMoon]

if you were to take twins out.

there's a good chance we would have lost 2 games just in SEC so far. I'm excluding one texas AM game.

That's why people should quiet.

Also, it's not just about PRESSURE. I'm laughed that it's only because Ulis/Booker get's to play pressure free. Which is true, but they also hide the fact that their weakness is less shown.

We would ben 3 loss team at least by now without twins.

 

[WCBcats]

Okay if you wanna play that game, where is this team without booker and Ulis? I venture to say 3-5 losses

 

[TnKat]

Originally posted by Samwise Ganjee:
Ulis and Booker, for all their skill and enthusiasm, are the two prime beneficiaries of Aaron and Andrew's return to college this year

The Twins have greatly compressed the learning curve for the two younger players, giving them a HUGE advantage in learning this offense, dealing with the distractions of being a Kentucky ball player and understanding what it takes to win at this level

Enough of this Ulis and Booker need to start crap

Their success is a direct results of what Aaron and Andrew bring to the table

Without it the two freshmen would not be anywhere as successful on the court or off of it

Tyler and Devon are STANDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS

 

[TnKat]

Originally posted by Samwise Ganjee:
Ulis and Booker, for all their skill and enthusiasm, are the two prime beneficiaries of Aaron and Andrew's return to college this year

The Twins have greatly compressed the learning curve for the two younger players, giving them a HUGE advantage in learning this offense, dealing with the distractions of being a Kentucky ball player and understanding what it takes to win at this level

Enough of this Ulis and Booker need to start crap

Their success is a direct results of what Aaron and Andrew bring to the table

Without it the two freshmen would not be anywhere as successful on the court or off of it

Tyler and Devon are STANDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS

Amen brother! I'll bet Tyler and Devon agree.

 

[WildMoon]

Originally posted by WCBcats:
Okay if you wanna play that game, where is this team without booker and Ulis? I venture to say 3-5 losses

completely different point.

In fact, my point is both set of guards are important to be 19 - 0...

also, i disagree with 3 - 5 losses...i doubt it. maybe 2-3, similar to Booker/Ulis

 

[5iveStarRecruit]

OP is basically saying everything Frank Martin said in his postgame interview.

 

[WhiteCityCat1]

Originally posted by Samwise Ganjee:
Ulis and Booker, for all their skill and enthusiasm, are the two prime beneficiaries of Aaron and Andrew's return to college this year

The Twins have greatly compressed the learning curve for the two younger players, giving them a HUGE advantage in learning this offense, dealing with the distractions of being a Kentucky ball player and understanding what it takes to win at this level

Enough of this Ulis and Booker need to start crap

Their success is a direct results of what Aaron and Andrew bring to the table

Without it the two freshmen would not be anywhere as successful on the court or off of it

Tyler and Devon are STANDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS

I still wish there was a like button on here.

 

[Sithlyone]

We have the greatest fan base in the nation, unfortunately we also have some stupid ones as well.

Why do we have to eat our own? Can't we be happy that both players are great?

I guarantee you that if Cal replaced Andrew with Tyler these same morons would be here two games later complaining about it. Why? Because Andrew has paved the way for Tyler, has taken the bulk of pressure of having to perform at a high level each and every game. Whereas Tyler has gotten to come in and just play his role. Which mind you, Tyler's mistakes have been limited because his minutes have been limited. Cal pulled him during the game (sorry can't remember which opponent it was) where they were just running over him and past him. His size is a limitation. So Cal minimized the disadvantage that Tyler had by not exposing him to it... When has he done that for Andrew? He makes Andrew play through his mistakes and issues most of the time, thus we see them more and we harp on them more.

Neither one of these kids are perfect yet we over-analyze Andrew for his mistakes and we over-hype Tyler for his achievements while not giving any credit to Andrew for helping Tyler along.

 

[Blue Decade]

Originally posted by Sithlyone:
We have the greatest fan base in the nation, unfortunately we also have some stupid ones as well.

Why do we have to eat our own? Can't we be happy that both players are great?

I guarantee you that if Cal replaced Andrew with Tyler these same morons would be here two games later complaining about it. Why? Because Andrew has paved the way for Tyler, has taken the bulk of pressure of having to perform at a high level each and every game. Whereas Tyler has gotten to come in and just play his role. Which mind you, Tyler's mistakes have been limited because his minutes have been limited. Cal pulled him during the game (sorry can't remember which opponent it was) where they were just running over him and past him. His size is a limitation. So Cal minimized the disadvantage that Tyler had by not exposing him to it... When has he done that for Andrew? He makes Andrew play through his mistakes and issues most of the time, thus we see them more and we harp on them more.

Neither one of these kids are perfect yet we over-analyze Andrew for his mistakes and we over-hype Tyler for his achievements while not giving any credit to Andrew for helping Tyler along.

+1

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

Offensive Efficiency numbers

Ulis 129.1
Booker 136.7

Andrew 101.0
Aaron 113.3


I also believe that Ulis and Booker play better defense.

For everyone complaining about the offense, playing Booker and Ulis more just makes sense.

Why can't we have an intelligent conversation on the subject? No one has to "bash" the Harrisons. They are obviously a huge part of the team and have already won us a ton of games.

But I don't understand why the conversation cannot be had about playing Booker and Ulis more mins.

 

[shaudyshaud1]

Well obviously if Andrew Harrison got hurt or something then we wouldn't be as good since it would hurt our depth.

Replace him with any average PG in college basketball then there is another story. Happy he is playing for Kentucky.

 

[TankedCat]

I'm not sure why everyone has to go to extremes in a discussion.

I understand there are some fans that wish for Ulis to start or to get the lion share of the minutes.

But for the most part, I think 99% of the people that talk about a players game understand the caveat that we are undefeated and the talent we have is amazing.

We are however, Kentucky fans - and this is what we do - we eat , live and breathe Kentucky basketball and that means we talk about the games, we talk about what can be improved, we talk about what we like and don't like.

What I've said here before is that when it comes to the Harrisons, I believe Cal sees some of the same things the fans do, and what he says publicly is for ours and their benefit, but what he says privately is for the teams benefit - and I bet the two messages aren't the same.

Cal's first priority I believe is to keep this train running and that isn't a game by game basis, its a recruiting year by recruiting year basis, and he's made a commitment to the Harrisons, but also to any future points guards/shooting guards (and however unlikely , twins or package deals that come here).

Ulis was projected to be a multi-year guy for UK. The twins were not. Of course its not that it isn't merited, they contribute to the team and will continue to do so, especially in tight game situations. But I think you can make a case they get more rope than anyone else.

So whether anyone believes my theory or not, without the benefit of having to spell it out in complete terms, I think Cal is doing a magnificent job and a balancing act of keeping the team first while also making sure that his recruiting dynamo doesn't hit any snags down the road. And he's doing it while keeping the fans and media on a leash by pre-empting the discussion with his "clutter" definition.



This post was edited on 1/25 3:05 PM by TankedCat

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

Aaron has played really well this season, especially on defense. Hes really solid. Just doesn't bring the wow factor that Booker does. But he has a really nice mid range pull up.

Andrew started strong. He's in a rut. He stopped attacking. During the tournament run, he had very few non productive dribbles - everything was attack mode. Now he often dribbles in place, dribbles out, penetrates without really attacking, or over penetrates.

He needs to constantly put stress on the defense. Then be willing to take the mid range jumper/floater he used perfectly in the past.

 

[Hoskins91_rivals]

I don't get why it's a big deal to state the fact that they are being outplayed. If their egos are that fragile, they were never going to make it anyway.

 

[Hoskins91_rivals]

Originally posted by DDS62:
Andrew is a good to average point guard with exceptional height. I wouldn't want to think what this team would be without him either. But who here would want to think what it would be without Booker or Ulis, two of our offensive threats? This team is not preforming like the dominate team it was at the beginning of the season. We are preforming like a defensive powerhouse that is covering for a limited offense. Poy kept the middle open for the bigs.

The offense was never very impressive to begin with. Our blowouts were a result of shutting the other team down. POY definitely had nothing to do with it, since he's one of the more limited offensive players on the team. If anything the offense has gotten better because Poythress is gone.

 

[wall2rondo]

One of the main reasons our freshman have played so,good is because of the people in front of them. They didn't have to,wear all,the weight of,coming in and being the man. They have been able to,shine and learn from those before them. If we would have won last year and the twins and WCS left. They would,have had a harder learning curve. It's been very beneficial platooning and not playing 30 minutes a game

 

[zoid1]

Were 19-0 ranked #1 in the nation. UK has FOUR top notch guards. Thats all that needs to be said.

 

[ILiveBlue]

Great thread. Glad we have the twins.

 

[Orange Soda King]

I agree. Our guard depth and talent greatly benefits Ulis and Booker, and that helps them shine a lot. There isn't nearly as much pressure on them, since they're playing alongside two elite guards , and the platoon experiment seems to be working pretty well. Also, the Harrison brothers have experience they can impart on the freshman guards.

That being said, Booker and Ulis are LEGIT. I see Booker's NBA stock has risen, but I hope he stays. They're be an awesome duo as sophomores, and we will have a new stud PG and SG in Briscoe and Matthews, as well as a junior Hawkins.

 

[Dream Team 13]

They took us to the championship game. It does No one any good with the Harrison back next season. Cal wants them to make it at draft time. They should be given the opportunity to work their way out of this rut.

 

[yabbadabbadoo_rivals213851]

Originally posted by zoid1:
Were 19-0 ranked #1 in the nation. UK has FOUR top notch guards. Thats all that needs to be said.

This is correct. One of the primary reasons we are what we are is that we have all 4. Minus 1 or 2 and we wouldn't be anywhere close to the same team IMO.