I somehow managed to be oblivious to this case until Labor Day weekend had passed, but suffice it to say, that it received a considerable amount of attention before I read about it. I read a summary about what happened and initially thought that this was a situation that should result in a firing of at least one police officer, a substantial settlement in civil court, and a letter of commendation for the nurse in question. I watched the video later, and the video was absolutely horrifying. After watching the video, a firing is not even the issue. This was actually much, much worse than the media reports. A termination, and lawsuit, is ridiculously insufficient, and, what's more, Officer Payne is not the only officer deserving of a criminal investigation and possible incarceration, if convicted.
However, the reason I post this thread is not to vent. There's one thing about this case that news reports are completely inconsistent about. Either way, the officer needs to pay the price, but, in one instance, it's even more outrageous than the other. The question is, and I hope that someone has credible information to settle this is, is this a situation where the nurse refused to permit the officer to enact his own blood draw? Or is it a situation, where the officer is directing the nurse to do it herself, and she declined to do so? Does anyone know? Either way, it doesn't change the fact that this was horrible (if anyone doubts me, I urge that person to google the video) and it doesn't change the fact that the referral to the Feds for a civil rights investigation is completely appropriate. But I was hoping someone would know. If it's a situation that the officer is ordering the nurse to do the illegal blood draw, as opposed to just ordering her to stand out of the way, it is even worse than I thought.
EDIT- on youtube, I was able to watch the full body cam, and it does clear up a couple of things, but does raise another question.
One, Payne was not demanding that the nurse the draw the blood herself. He was clearly with the intent to do it himself, which he was apparently qualified to do. That the nurse did not object to the draw on the grounds (at least not on the video) that a hospital staff member, and not Payne, should draw the blood, suggests that there was nothing inherently wrong with Payne drawing blood at the hospital under other circumstances. It appears that Payne based his arrest on the fact that the nurse refused to tell him where the patient was, and refused to allow him to do the draw, not that she did anything to physically try to stop him, nor did she indicate that it was her intention to do so.
Next, Payne clearly knew that the victim wasn't the suspect. He specifically told the nurse that his intent was to "protect" the victim by taking the test. There may be reason to be skeptical of that, but he never would have even bothered to say that if he wasn't aware that the patient was, in fact, not the suspect.
Also, during the pre-arrest portion of the video, he is a bit more humanized than he is in the arrest portion of it. One gets the feeling that his preference is not make this arrest, but that he is going to do what he has to do. That's not really a justification. But it does make him look a little bit less awful than the short segment of the video. With that said, it's bothersome that he completely loses his cool, not over something the nurse says to him, but when her supervisor tells him that he is wrong, and that "he is making a big mistake". He loses his cool completely and takes his anger out on the nurse. Even if this was a lawful arrest, and I fail to see how it could possibly be, the way he handled it was ridiculous, unprofessional, and very concerning if that's his usual way of doing business.
Finally, another question comes up. It appears that the police were pacified once it was determined that blood had already been drawn by the hospital. The nurse was soon released after that. I'm absolutely not blaming the victim here, but, unless she was prohibited from doing so by hospital policy or ethical grounds (confidentiality), it's odd that she just didn't tell him that the blood was already drawn- but maybe she did tell him that, prior to the video. It's also odd that officer wouldn't have also known this. If he knew, but disregarded it because he knew that he would never be able to get a warrant for it, that's not good. However, he may not have known.
However, the reason I post this thread is not to vent. There's one thing about this case that news reports are completely inconsistent about. Either way, the officer needs to pay the price, but, in one instance, it's even more outrageous than the other. The question is, and I hope that someone has credible information to settle this is, is this a situation where the nurse refused to permit the officer to enact his own blood draw? Or is it a situation, where the officer is directing the nurse to do it herself, and she declined to do so? Does anyone know? Either way, it doesn't change the fact that this was horrible (if anyone doubts me, I urge that person to google the video) and it doesn't change the fact that the referral to the Feds for a civil rights investigation is completely appropriate. But I was hoping someone would know. If it's a situation that the officer is ordering the nurse to do the illegal blood draw, as opposed to just ordering her to stand out of the way, it is even worse than I thought.
EDIT- on youtube, I was able to watch the full body cam, and it does clear up a couple of things, but does raise another question.
One, Payne was not demanding that the nurse the draw the blood herself. He was clearly with the intent to do it himself, which he was apparently qualified to do. That the nurse did not object to the draw on the grounds (at least not on the video) that a hospital staff member, and not Payne, should draw the blood, suggests that there was nothing inherently wrong with Payne drawing blood at the hospital under other circumstances. It appears that Payne based his arrest on the fact that the nurse refused to tell him where the patient was, and refused to allow him to do the draw, not that she did anything to physically try to stop him, nor did she indicate that it was her intention to do so.
Next, Payne clearly knew that the victim wasn't the suspect. He specifically told the nurse that his intent was to "protect" the victim by taking the test. There may be reason to be skeptical of that, but he never would have even bothered to say that if he wasn't aware that the patient was, in fact, not the suspect.
Also, during the pre-arrest portion of the video, he is a bit more humanized than he is in the arrest portion of it. One gets the feeling that his preference is not make this arrest, but that he is going to do what he has to do. That's not really a justification. But it does make him look a little bit less awful than the short segment of the video. With that said, it's bothersome that he completely loses his cool, not over something the nurse says to him, but when her supervisor tells him that he is wrong, and that "he is making a big mistake". He loses his cool completely and takes his anger out on the nurse. Even if this was a lawful arrest, and I fail to see how it could possibly be, the way he handled it was ridiculous, unprofessional, and very concerning if that's his usual way of doing business.
Finally, another question comes up. It appears that the police were pacified once it was determined that blood had already been drawn by the hospital. The nurse was soon released after that. I'm absolutely not blaming the victim here, but, unless she was prohibited from doing so by hospital policy or ethical grounds (confidentiality), it's odd that she just didn't tell him that the blood was already drawn- but maybe she did tell him that, prior to the video. It's also odd that officer wouldn't have also known this. If he knew, but disregarded it because he knew that he would never be able to get a warrant for it, that's not good. However, he may not have known.
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