The Mike Guard Thread

[IGNORE]

I will try to watch as many games as I can but here is a little start to the importance of roster management to become a successful program:

Duke – Plenty of talent and ballhandlers. Even their forwards can handle the rock.

Gonzaga – top two MPG guys are guards – one distributes and the other drives or dishes it. Third G has favorable Asst/TO.

NC – Guard heavy roster. Some clear SGs, but all have favorable asst/turnover. 6 Gs play at least 10 minutes. Man, that’s a lot of talented guard on one roster…

Non blue-blood VA convinced five talented Gs to come play. They shoot threes, drive, and distribute – just a bunch of talented guys that can handle the rock.

Kentucky also has a host of talented guards on the same roster. They seem to be pretty defined as SGs or ball handlers that either drive or dish or distributors.

UM and MSU have a couple strong band handling options in the lineup with another capable one on the bench. The MSU guards are pretty multidimensional. And despite rumors here, they all agreed to be on the roster at the same time…

But enough of the blue-bloods, TN boasts 4 talented guards at the top of their MPG. One is a pretty clear SG. But the other three can all manage the rock – either scoring it or collecting dimes.

Alright, this is silly to exam the tops teams in this country. Clearly, college ball is about guard play and the best P5 teams will get guards to share a roster. What about the lesser seeded teams?

Looking at 8 seeds: Ole Miss has 4 guards that safeguard the ball. None are lights out 3P shooters and none wow in the asst/to ratio, they all kept that stat an integer and three score double digits. They have a fourth one coming off the bench for 10 MPG + in the same mold. Plenty of fallback options and all on the same roster of a non-blue blood program.

Syracuse – a well-established program – have two pretty similar guards managing the rock backed up by a third guy off the bench with similar stats. Plan A, B and C.

Storied Utah State runs 6 guards with 10 MPG or more. These guys include shooters, drivers, distributors – all but one have higher assists than turnovers. There are guys that have missed games and yet this powerhouse had enough backup plans to keep a QB on the floor.

VCU sports 5 guards in the rotation. All but one has kept assists above turnovers. They seem to be similar in the contributions.

Maybe later I will start looking at teams from the bottom seeds up. But it seems that there are a couple truths:

1. A non-storied program can convince more than one talented ball handling guard to share a roster with another. In fact, seems like successful programs build rosters with a few ball handing options just within the rotation without even looking at guys taking a shirt or sitting way down the bench;

2. With the exception of Duke – who I didn’t bother to look at – they have ball handling forwards, super recruits on the bench waiting their turn, forget about them – nobody I looked at tried to run a squad without legit ball handing guard options.

These teams seemingly plan their rosters to have a couple of heavy minutes guys and a sixth man type that can all manage team on the floor. I’m sorry, unless you are a Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, then depending on a true freshman as Option A or B is foolish. And counting on a kid in the program for three years that has never shown he even belongs, to be Plan A or B, is ridiculous. And allowing the plan to get to the point where you have to sell the true frosh, the nonplayer and the committee as Options A, B & C is simply mismanagement. Maybe you disagree – but we can agree it is not the signature of a great recruiter.

 

[Max_Power]

I will try to watch as many games as I can but here is a little start to the importance of roster management to become a successful program:

Duke – Plenty of talent and ballhandlers. Even their forwards can handle the rock.

Gonzaga – top two MPG guys are guards – one distributes and the other drives or dishes it. Third G has favorable Asst/TO.

NC – Guard heavy roster. Some clear SGs, but all have favorable asst/turnover. 6 Gs play at least 10 minutes. Man, that’s a lot of talented guard on one roster…

Non blue-blood VA convinced five talented Gs to come play. They shoot threes, drive, and distribute – just a bunch of talented guys that can handle the rock.

Kentucky also has a host of talented guards on the same roster. They seem to be pretty defined as SGs or ball handlers that either drive or dish or distributors.

UM and MSU have a couple strong band handling options in the lineup with another capable one on the bench. The MSU guards are pretty multidimensional. And despite rumors here, they all agreed to be on the roster at the same time…

But enough of the blue-bloods, TN boasts 4 talented guards at the top of their MPG. One is a pretty clear SG. But the other three can all manage the rock – either scoring it or collecting dimes.

Alright, this is silly to exam the tops teams in this country. Clearly, college ball is about guard play and the best P5 teams will get guards to share a roster. What about the lesser seeded teams?

Looking at 8 seeds: Ole Miss has 4 guards that safeguard the ball. None are lights out 3P shooters and none wow in the asst/to ratio, they all kept that stat an integer and three score double digits. They have a fourth one coming off the bench for 10 MPG + in the same mold. Plenty of fallback options and all on the same roster of a non-blue blood program.

Syracuse – a well-established program – have two pretty similar guards managing the rock backed up by a third guy off the bench with similar stats. Plan A, B and C.

Storied Utah State runs 6 guards with 10 MPG or more. These guys include shooters, drivers, distributors – all but one have higher assists than turnovers. There are guys that have missed games and yet this powerhouse had enough backup plans to keep a QB on the floor.

VCU sports 5 guards in the rotation. All but one has kept assists above turnovers. They seem to be similar in the contributions.

Maybe later I will start looking at teams from the bottom seeds up. But it seems that there are a couple truths:

1. A non-storied program can convince more than one talented ball handling guard to share a roster with another. In fact, seems like successful programs build rosters with a few ball handing options just within the rotation without even looking at guys taking a shirt or sitting way down the bench;

2. With the exception of Duke – who I didn’t bother to look at – they have ball handling forwards, super recruits on the bench waiting their turn, forget about them – nobody I looked at tried to run a squad without legit ball handing guard options.

These teams seemingly plan their rosters to have a couple of heavy minutes guys and a sixth man type that can all manage team on the floor. I’m sorry, unless you are a Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, then depending on a true freshman as Option A or B is foolish. And counting on a kid in the program for three years that has never shown he even belongs, to be Plan A or B, is ridiculous. And allowing the plan to get to the point where you have to sell the true frosh, the nonplayer and the committee as Options A, B & C is simply mismanagement. Maybe you disagree – but we can agree it is not the signature of a great recruiter.

Collins recruited B-Mac, Ash, Brown and Lathon to play lead guard and ended up with a star, oft-injured good kid, transfer who on paper they could have used but who (reading between the lines) did not do enough and a kid who never enrolled. That's just crazy attrition at one spot. In a perfect world, Brown would have been the point but he was not interested in defending or protecting the ball so it played against his instant offense. There is some blame to go around here between players and coaches and to pin it all on Collins when he actually recruited 3 kids to play the spot after B-Mac and none worked out for apparently entirely different reasons, is just ignoring what happened to support an agenda.

 

[IGNORE]

Collins recruited B-Mac, Ash, Brown and Lathon to play lead guard and ended up with a star, oft-injured good kid, transfer who on paper they could have used but who (reading between the lines) did not do enough and a kid who never enrolled. That's just crazy attrition at one spot. In a perfect world, Brown would have been the point but he was not interested in defending or protecting the ball so it played against his instant offense. There is some blame to go around here between players and coaches and to pin it all on Collins when he actually recruited 3 kids to play the spot after B-Mac and none worked out for apparently entirely different reasons, is just ignoring what happened to support an agenda.

Sure - if this was FB at QB and that occurred, we would start looking hard at transfers, not just the grad version. When they discovered Ash wasn't going to be a starter or when they grew 'tired' of Brown, they should have amped up. They should have had more the Lathon coming in. A great recruiter would have had Lathon and player #2 (open schollie - remember?).

 

[Max_Power]

Sure - if this was FB at QB and that occurred, we would start looking hard at transfers, not just the grad version. When they discovered Ash wasn't going to be a starter or when they grew 'tired' of Brown, they should have amped up. They should have had more the Lathon coming in. A great recruiter would have had Lathon and player #2 (open schollie - remember?).

I love the Collins can't recruit BS. Collins was recruiting kids to play at the old Welsh Ryan with a BS practice court and substandard lockerrooms. He got NU to the NCAA. Then he had to recruit kids to play a year at Allstate and practice at Bloomquist. Anthony Gaines is a hero. Collins still has no dedicated practice facility (its under construction but its not done). He was playing in one of the worst gyms until this year. NU is probably the worst historical power 5 hoops team, without any competition. So yeah, its not easy to get quality guards under those circumstances. Did he miss - certainly. Is he in a better spot to recruit today then 3 years ago - yes. But the idea that top recruits would come in droves to NU when the facilities were still woeful is just not realistic. Just look at the uptick from the new arena and new facility in the last two classes. It is clear that Collins is betting really big on the next two years, maybe even betting his job. Are their legitimate complaints to be made about the state of his program at this point - yes. Are their legitimate reasons that make this coaching situation still one of the toughest out there - certainly. Are things getting better - talk to me in November when signing day comes around.

 

[willycat]

I will try to watch as many games as I can but here is a little start to the importance of roster management to become a successful program:

Duke – Plenty of talent and ballhandlers. Even their forwards can handle the rock.

Gonzaga – top two MPG guys are guards – one distributes and the other drives or dishes it. Third G has favorable Asst/TO.

NC – Guard heavy roster. Some clear SGs, but all have favorable asst/turnover. 6 Gs play at least 10 minutes. Man, that’s a lot of talented guard on one roster…

Non blue-blood VA convinced five talented Gs to come play. They shoot threes, drive, and distribute – just a bunch of talented guys that can handle the rock.

Kentucky also has a host of talented guards on the same roster. They seem to be pretty defined as SGs or ball handlers that either drive or dish or distributors.

UM and MSU have a couple strong band handling options in the lineup with another capable one on the bench. The MSU guards are pretty multidimensional. And despite rumors here, they all agreed to be on the roster at the same time…

But enough of the blue-bloods, TN boasts 4 talented guards at the top of their MPG. One is a pretty clear SG. But the other three can all manage the rock – either scoring it or collecting dimes.

Alright, this is silly to exam the tops teams in this country. Clearly, college ball is about guard play and the best P5 teams will get guards to share a roster. What about the lesser seeded teams?

Looking at 8 seeds: Ole Miss has 4 guards that safeguard the ball. None are lights out 3P shooters and none wow in the asst/to ratio, they all kept that stat an integer and three score double digits. They have a fourth one coming off the bench for 10 MPG + in the same mold. Plenty of fallback options and all on the same roster of a non-blue blood program.

Syracuse – a well-established program – have two pretty similar guards managing the rock backed up by a third guy off the bench with similar stats. Plan A, B and C.

Storied Utah State runs 6 guards with 10 MPG or more. These guys include shooters, drivers, distributors – all but one have higher assists than turnovers. There are guys that have missed games and yet this powerhouse had enough backup plans to keep a QB on the floor.

VCU sports 5 guards in the rotation. All but one has kept assists above turnovers. They seem to be similar in the contributions.

Maybe later I will start looking at teams from the bottom seeds up. But it seems that there are a couple truths:

1. A non-storied program can convince more than one talented ball handling guard to share a roster with another. In fact, seems like successful programs build rosters with a few ball handing options just within the rotation without even looking at guys taking a shirt or sitting way down the bench;

2. With the exception of Duke – who I didn’t bother to look at – they have ball handling forwards, super recruits on the bench waiting their turn, forget about them – nobody I looked at tried to run a squad without legit ball handing guard options.

These teams seemingly plan their rosters to have a couple of heavy minutes guys and a sixth man type that can all manage team on the floor. I’m sorry, unless you are a Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, then depending on a true freshman as Option A or B is foolish. And counting on a kid in the program for three years that has never shown he even belongs, to be Plan A or B, is ridiculous. And allowing the plan to get to the point where you have to sell the true frosh, the nonplayer and the committee as Options A, B & C is simply mismanagement. Maybe you disagree – but we can agree it is not the signature of a great recruiter.

And your point is? Oh, right CC is a "terrible" coach.

 

[IGNORE]

It is clear that Collins is betting really big on the next two years, maybe even betting his job.

Man, I hope that his golden tongue comes through and lines up some real talent. Boy, I would love someone to go through the archives in two seasons and drag my old and wrong posts out - publicly shame me into retiring from the message boards. That would be a win as Laura and I could use all this extra time flying around catching Wildcat games around the country through March.

Not sure that I agree. Time will tell.

 

[IGNORE]

And your point is? Oh, right CC is a "terrible" coach.

No - I am simply amazed how wonderful things have come together. We finally went dancing - a few years ago, I think. Um, oh yeah, we have landed a few heralded recruits - pretty cool. Players no longer transfer away from the program...uh...well At least their aren't any scandals, nothing to embroil the school name in some nasty lawsuit...oh wait, forget that...but our continuing success on the Court is enough to simply make me happy...damn.

Oh well, what's it say for Cub fans when you have to say 'Wait until next two years from now!'

 

[willycat]

No - I am simply amazed how wonderful things have come together. We finally went dancing - a few years ago, I think. Um, oh yeah, we have landed a few heralded recruits - pretty cool. Players no longer transfer away from the program...uh...well At least their aren't any scandals, nothing to embroil the school name in some nasty lawsuit...oh wait, forget that...but our continuing success on the Court is enough to simply make me happy...damn.

Oh well, what's it say for Cub fans when you have to say 'Wait until next two years from now!'

Just can't imagine why you waste your time flying around to watch a bad BB team with a terrible coach?

 

[IGNORE]

Just can't imagine why you waste your time flying around to watch a bad BB team with a terrible coach?

Don’t worry your little head about it. Someday they may be competitive again and maybe you will understand the joy of traveling to visit foreign arenas to take in new places while cheering for a team worthy of respect far and wide.

Meanwhile, enjoy the marshmallows, keep those keys handy and simply repeat ‘That’s alright, that’s ok...’

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Just can't imagine why you waste your time flying around to watch a bad BB team with a terrible coach?

Bob be angry...or something. Lol

 

[IGNORE]

Bob be angry...or something. Lol

Or something I suppose. Don’t you worry your little heads about it. I don’t think you will ever understand.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I will try to watch as many games as I can but here is a little start to the importance of roster management to become a successful program:

Duke – Plenty of talent and ballhandlers. Even their forwards can handle the rock.

Gonzaga – top two MPG guys are guards – one distributes and the other drives or dishes it. Third G has favorable Asst/TO.

NC – Guard heavy roster. Some clear SGs, but all have favorable asst/turnover. 6 Gs play at least 10 minutes. Man, that’s a lot of talented guard on one roster…

Non blue-blood VA convinced five talented Gs to come play. They shoot threes, drive, and distribute – just a bunch of talented guys that can handle the rock.

Kentucky also has a host of talented guards on the same roster. They seem to be pretty defined as SGs or ball handlers that either drive or dish or distributors.

UM and MSU have a couple strong band handling options in the lineup with another capable one on the bench. The MSU guards are pretty multidimensional. And despite rumors here, they all agreed to be on the roster at the same time…

But enough of the blue-bloods, TN boasts 4 talented guards at the top of their MPG. One is a pretty clear SG. But the other three can all manage the rock – either scoring it or collecting dimes.

Alright, this is silly to exam the tops teams in this country. Clearly, college ball is about guard play and the best P5 teams will get guards to share a roster. What about the lesser seeded teams?

Looking at 8 seeds: Ole Miss has 4 guards that safeguard the ball. None are lights out 3P shooters and none wow in the asst/to ratio, they all kept that stat an integer and three score double digits. They have a fourth one coming off the bench for 10 MPG + in the same mold. Plenty of fallback options and all on the same roster of a non-blue blood program.

Syracuse – a well-established program – have two pretty similar guards managing the rock backed up by a third guy off the bench with similar stats. Plan A, B and C.

Storied Utah State runs 6 guards with 10 MPG or more. These guys include shooters, drivers, distributors – all but one have higher assists than turnovers. There are guys that have missed games and yet this powerhouse had enough backup plans to keep a QB on the floor.

VCU sports 5 guards in the rotation. All but one has kept assists above turnovers. They seem to be similar in the contributions.

Maybe later I will start looking at teams from the bottom seeds up. But it seems that there are a couple truths:

1. A non-storied program can convince more than one talented ball handling guard to share a roster with another. In fact, seems like successful programs build rosters with a few ball handing options just within the rotation without even looking at guys taking a shirt or sitting way down the bench;

2. With the exception of Duke – who I didn’t bother to look at – they have ball handling forwards, super recruits on the bench waiting their turn, forget about them – nobody I looked at tried to run a squad without legit ball handing guard options.

These teams seemingly plan their rosters to have a couple of heavy minutes guys and a sixth man type that can all manage team on the floor. I’m sorry, unless you are a Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, then depending on a true freshman as Option A or B is foolish. And counting on a kid in the program for three years that has never shown he even belongs, to be Plan A or B, is ridiculous. And allowing the plan to get to the point where you have to sell the true frosh, the nonplayer and the committee as Options A, B & C is simply mismanagement. Maybe you disagree – but we can agree it is not the signature of a great recruiter.

Did someone close the 300+ post thread on this topic?

 

[IGNORE]

Did someone close the 300+ post thread on this topic?

Wanted a fresh start.

 

[hoosboot]

Collins recruited B-Mac, Ash, Brown and Lathon to play lead guard and ended up with a star, oft-injured good kid, transfer who on paper they could have used but who (reading between the lines) did not do enough and a kid who never enrolled. That's just crazy attrition at one spot. In a perfect world, Brown would have been the point but he was not interested in defending or protecting the ball so it played against his instant offense. There is some blame to go around here between players and coaches and to pin it all on Collins when he actually recruited 3 kids to play the spot after B-Mac and none worked out for apparently entirely different reasons, is just ignoring what happened to support an agenda.

I want nothing more than for the basketball program to be successful, but this isn't a very compelling defense of the coaching and recruiting staff. Recruiting only four guards meant to initiate offense in six years and only having one turn out to be capable of doing so at Northwestern is a criticism, not a defense. The coaching staff has done a lot of great things, but i don't see how someone could suggest that roster management (particularly around guard play) has been a strong suit so far.

 

[IGNORE]

I want nothing more than for the basketball program to be successful, but this isn't a very compelling defense of the coaching and recruiting staff. Recruiting only four guards meant to initiate offense in six years and only having one turn out to be capable of doing so at Northwestern is a criticism, not a defense. The coaching staff has done a lot of great things, but i don't see how someone could suggest that roster management (particularly around guard play) has been a strong suit so far.

I think someone said no guard of value would come to NU while the great BMac resisted the NBA and stayed at NU.

 

[TheC]

Its a non-argument to me. Of course you need to recruit multiple impact guards including multiple point guards if you want to be successful. This is still a guard-driven game. Even the mighty B-Mac wasn't so talented that some good younger PG couldn't have come in and taken minutes from him. I have no idea why Collins, a former guard himself, has had so much trouble in this area, but hopefully he's learned a thing or two from his mistakes.

 

[Max_Power]

I want nothing more than for the basketball program to be successful, but this isn't a very compelling defense of the coaching and recruiting staff. Recruiting only four guards meant to initiate offense in six years and only having one turn out to be capable of doing so at Northwestern is a criticism, not a defense. The coaching staff has done a lot of great things, but i don't see how someone could suggest that roster management (particularly around guard play) has been a strong suit so far.

Never said it was and I think Collins would be first in line to admit his mistakes. That said, it is not easy to recruit top high school guards to play at the old WR and then Allstate and then to practice at Bloomquist. You get what you pay for and NU invested almost nothing in facilities for decades. Hard to ask a kid to come to NU over another Power 5 school with top notch facilities.

 

[go cats go_rivals310290]

That said, it is not easy to recruit top high school guards to play at the old WR and then Allstate and then to practice at Bloomquist.

Why is it any harder to recruit 4-star guards to NU's facilities than it is to recruit 4-star wings and forwards? We have had decent success landing 4-star wings/forwards: Falzon, Rap, Nance, Kopp, Beran...

 

[go cats go_rivals310290]

Why is it any harder to recruit 4-star guards to NU's facilities than it is to recruit 4-star wings and forwards? We have had decent success landing 4-star wings/forwards: Falzon, Rap, Nance, Kopp, Beran...

Meanwhile, I don't think Collins has had any 4-star guards enroll.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

Why is it any harder to recruit 4-star guards to NU's facilities than it is to recruit 4-star wings and forwards? We have had decent success landing 4-star wings/forwards: Falzon, Rap, Nance, Kopp, Beran...

i would say because 2-3 wings play vs. 1 ball handler

you got bmac vic and lindsey and no one of substance to follow any of them outside of falzon who got hurt and then gaines jumped on board

then lindsey left and turner jumped in

with wings the 3rd guy can back up both the others for 25 mpg for each

with a ballhandler its 30 and 10

sure you can get another ballhandler - but he would playing a wing spot and one of those other guys wouldn't be around

 

[Max_Power]

Why is it any harder to recruit 4-star guards to NU's facilities than it is to recruit 4-star wings and forwards? We have had decent success landing 4-star wings/forwards: Falzon, Rap, Nance, Kopp, Beran...

Nance and Kopp came in with the new building. Beran is coming on board with the new building and practice facility.

 

[hoosboot]

Nance and Kopp came in with the new building. Beran is coming on board with the new building and practice facility.

So, are you saying that we didn't have any new facilities for 4-star guards? Only ones that 4-star wings/forwards are allowed to use? I'm not sure your post answers what go cats go was asking.

I suspect the staff is working hard on roster management and has learned some important lessons that will hopefully make the next few recruiting classes even better than the last few.