The NCAA tournament was great

[TheC]

.... and I'm so happy we made it. But... it created a glimmer of false hope that makes the current situation that much more disappointing. For that one year, we had guys who could handle the ball. We had guys who could knock down 3 pointers. We had guys who played above the rim. We looked like a normal college basketball team. We even had loud, excited crowds. It made me think that maybe the team I love the most could actually become a real college basketball program.

But now I think I have to accept the reality that this isn't going to happen. We're back to being a perennial bottom of the conference team that may be scrappy, but just simply doesn't have the skill or athleticism to seriously challenge the rest of the conference consistently. I guess its ok. That's the way its been for most of my adult life. Its just a little painful, because for one shining moment, it looked like maybe we could be like everybody else.

 

[Username Not Available]

I like the new kids and this team. Next year looks even better. We’ll probably always be a couple of injuries away from collapse tho.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

(spoken)
A man has dreams of walking with giants
To carve his niche in the edifice of time
(sung)
Before the mortar of his zeal
Has a chance to congeal
(spoken)
The cup is dashed from his lips
The flame is snuffed aborning
He's brought to wreck and ruin in his prime

 

[Styre]

Next year looks even better.

It would be pretty hard to look worse.

 

[Username Not Available]

It would be pretty hard to look worse.

What was the team’s injury status for 99-00?

 

[Medill90]

This team looks very talented to me. We need help at guard and a college-ready guard is coming in.

Kopp has played great all year. Beran looks solid. Young is terriffic...double double today against a future pro...and there doesn't look to be a ceiling for Buie.

Nance is gifted...needs to keep getting stronger. Jones needs time with BJ, too bad he couldn't redshirt.

NU this year lost three fifth year seniors who transferred out....their best player in Gaines....their other best player in AJ....and they are super competitive. And getting better.

I'm ok with this. The season is a Mulligan but fun to watch.

 

[TheC]

This team looks very talented to me. We need help at guard and a college-ready guard is coming in.

Kopp has played great all year. Beran looks solid. Young is terriffic...double double today against a future pro...and there doesn't look to be a ceiling for Buie.

Nance is gifted...needs to keep getting stronger. Jones needs time with BJ, too bad he couldn't redshirt.

NU this year lost three fifth year seniors who transferred out....their best player in Gaines....their other best player in AJ....and they are super competitive. And getting better.

I'm ok with this. The season is a Mulligan but fun to watch.

I love your optimism, but I watch sophomores like Daniel Oturu and Marcus Carr and then I watch our sophomores and you begin to realize, we're not even close.

 

[GatoLouco]

No school invests in facilities as much as NU did without having ambition.

No school pays a coach at a top 25 level without having ambition.

That’s why I expect more from this program.

We can focus on the positives, that’s all good. Pat Spencer today made the board members here who concluded he was not a B1G player after the Purdue game look like fools. But he is not the future.

Truth is we played a team whose best 3 players are sophomores. We were short handed, they use a 7 man rotation, by need, in pretty much every game. And we were clearly outmatched. We did not just lose. We were out of the game at the 10 minute mark.

Something ain’t right. Actually, a lot ain’t right.

 

[JournCat]

I love your optimism, but I watch sophomores like Daniel Oturu and Marcus Carr and then I watch our sophomores and you begin to realize, we're not even close.

The best players in recent NU memory going back to Shurna showed signs of stardom their sophomore years. Nance at least is still so undersized that a jump might come next year. But it’s hard to expect that much more from Kopp or Greer.

 

[Medill90]

I know nothing about basketball because I'm pretty excited by how Kopp's playing

 

[Jeffrey Cat]

The best players in recent NU memory going back to Shurna showed signs of stardom their sophomore years. Nance at least is still so undersized that a jump might come next year. But it’s hard to expect that much more from Kopp or Greer.

Frankly, I think Greer played damned well.

 

[Fitz51]

.... and I'm so happy we made it. But... it created a glimmer of false hope that makes the current situation that much more disappointing. For that one year, we had guys who could handle the ball. We had guys who could knock down 3 pointers. We had guys who played above the rim. We looked like a normal college basketball team. We even had loud, excited crowds. It made me think that maybe the team I love the most could actually become a real college basketball program.

But now I think I have to accept the reality that this isn't going to happen. We're back to being a perennial bottom of the conference team that may be scrappy, but just simply doesn't have the skill or athleticism to seriously challenge the rest of the conference consistently. I guess its ok. That's the way its been for most of my adult life. Its just a little painful, because for one shining moment, it looked like maybe we could be like everybody else.

Yeah, that was a fun season. Now, we’re Northwestern again.

 

[ThatadultfromHolland]

The best players in recent NU memory going back to Shurna showed signs of stardom their sophomore years. Nance at least is still so undersized that a jump might come next year. But it’s hard to expect that much more from Kopp or Greer.

Kopp can score and will score more. Will be a great 2nd or 3rd option scoring behind buie and nance. Will have nights where he is the leading scorer. He will continue to improve.

 

[NUCat320]

Kopp can score and will score more. Will be a great 2nd or 3rd option scoring behind buie and nance. Will have nights where he is the leading scorer. He will continue to improve.

Nance hasn’t yet looked like a 1st or 2nd option.

 

[GatoLouco]

Yesterday Nance started well
1) Quick 6 points
2) Body language of "I'm here to play"

Then he disappears. Why?
1) Poor coaching not forcing the flow of offense to go to him. No instructions to him or the PG to move in that direction
2) No seasoned point guard who will talk to him, call plays for him, move the ball to find him
3) Nance's lack of assertiveness, never demanding the ball. And just generally wanting to play small, away from the basket. Where smaller players find it easy to limit his touches and ability to shoot

Quickly the body language, that seemed promising in the beginning of the game, turned into wondering if it is not a sign he's considering transferring.

Probably reading too much into it. He developed in the summer. Got stronger. But he's not developing within a season that is more and more looking it will be extra brutal.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

.... and I'm so happy we made it. But... it created a glimmer of false hope that makes the current situation that much more disappointing. For that one year, we had guys who could handle the ball. We had guys who could knock down 3 pointers. We had guys who played above the rim. We looked like a normal college basketball team. We even had loud, excited crowds. It made me think that maybe the team I love the most could actually become a real college basketball program.

But now I think I have to accept the reality that this isn't going to happen. We're back to being a perennial bottom of the conference team that may be scrappy, but just simply doesn't have the skill or athleticism to seriously challenge the rest of the conference consistently. I guess its ok. That's the way its been for most of my adult life. Its just a little painful, because for one shining moment, it looked like maybe we could be like everybody else.

It is worse now. With Carmody we had hopes of maybe goin to the NIT.
Now our championship is to just win one big ten game.

 

[Medill90]

I love your optimism, but I watch sophomores like Daniel Oturu and Marcus Carr and then I watch our sophomores and you begin to realize, we're not even close.

Understand completely.

But I'll take a 10 pt loss on the road with a guy who suited up for lacrosse last year as the only upperclassman playing.

 

[GatoLouco]

Understand completely.

But I'll take a 10 pt loss on the road with a guy who suited up for lacrosse last year as the only upperclassman playing.

I wish I could be as optimistic as you are. The final score does not look that bad. What looked bad was being out of the game at the 10 minute mark.

Their best 3 players are all sophomores
Carr
Oturu
Kalscheur

Their 2 other starters are a senior and a freshman
Demir - Senior role player
Williams - though Willis is the natural starter

The two other players they used are a junior and a sophomore
Willis - junior
Omersa - Sophomore

That's it, that's the players they use. They are an injury or two away from disaster.

Minny did not even play all that well. It wasn't one of those games where things were going well for them. Where shots were falling easily.

Their best shooter got in foul trouble. Oturu was quiet in the 1st half, greatly due to the use of zone. Carr was clearly more worried about getting others involved. If you watched them against Purdue (I did, live), Carr was forced to carry an enormous load on offense. Due to Purdue being very aggressive on the passing lanes, and often finding no one who could get the ball, let along open for shooting.

And, despite our guys showing a lot of effort, can't complain about lack of hustle, despite being taller, we were clearly inferior to them.

I'd take the loss, if we did not look like a mid major playing a P5 team.

Minny, despite being young, is a tournament contender. We are far from it. Too bad for Pitino they can't afford more than one injury, and it can't be Oturu or Carr. And that Oturu will likely leave at the end of the season.

 

[bringbacktherantboard]

Boo hoo

 

[jensberg]

Yesterday Nance started well
1) Quick 6 points
2) Body language of "I'm here to play"

Then he disappears. Why?
1) Poor coaching not forcing the flow of offense to go to him. No instructions to him or the PG to move in that direction
2) No seasoned point guard who will talk to him, call plays for him, move the ball to find him
3) Nance's lack of assertiveness, never demanding the ball. And just generally wanting to play small, away from the basket. Where smaller players find it easy to limit his touches and ability to shoot

Quickly the body language, that seemed promising in the beginning of the game, turned into wondering if it is not a sign he's considering transferring.

Probably reading too much into it. He developed in the summer. Got stronger. But he's not developing within a season that is more and more looking it will be extra brutal.

#3. Plus his ball handling skills are marginal and shot is flat.

 

[Hungry Jack]

.... and I'm so happy we made it. But... it created a glimmer of false hope that makes the current situation that much more disappointing. For that one year, we had guys who could handle the ball. We had guys who could knock down 3 pointers. We had guys who played above the rim. We looked like a normal college basketball team. We even had loud, excited crowds. It made me think that maybe the team I love the most could actually become a real college basketball program.

But now I think I have to accept the reality that this isn't going to happen. We're back to being a perennial bottom of the conference team that may be scrappy, but just simply doesn't have the skill or athleticism to seriously challenge the rest of the conference consistently. I guess its ok. That's the way its been for most of my adult life. Its just a little painful, because for one shining moment, it looked like maybe we could be like everybody else.

This reads like a requiem.

 

[Medill90]

#3. Plus his ball handling skills are marginal and shot is flat.

he forced shots yesterday....tried to dribble into a shot....shot too soon....shot off balance.

My argument is that he has the most talent by far.....if he touches the ball all the time he won't feel compelled to press....Spencer yesterday was looking to create shots for Spencer first, and then others...that took Nance completely out of his game. Spencer had 6 more field goal attempts than Nance. It's the PG's role to direct the offense such that opportunities are created. That is not a two dimensional concept. It's not simply, "is there a guy open to receive the pass and shoot....if not, I'll create a shot." The PG needs to be thinking about passes and motion that lead to a pass and an opening that results in an open shot or a bunny.

I'd like to see Nance direct the offense more...I think that's his mentality...same with Kopp who seems to really understand what Collins wants on both ends of the floor.

 

[Sec_112]

1) I'm as disappointed as everybody that this season has become the too-often NU trainwreck. But I don't completely buy the idea of hopelessness after yesterday's game.

Don't get me wrong: things aren't exactly looking stunning. But to compare this group to the worst in NU history is pretty over the top - especially if we're using yesterday's game as the barometer many are using.

The Gopher sophomores weren't exactly dominating NU. Most of that game is within six or seven points - and without a single three-point attempt in the first half. I think Buie alone makes up that difference with his scoring.

And that doesn't consider the difference between Spencer and Buie distributing and moving the ball.

But then again, the Pitino program is not exactly my personal goal.

2) On the bad side, consider that four of the available seven players on defense are Spencer, Greer, Beran and Jones. That's not good at all.

Beran and Jones are playing like freshmen on defense and can be better in the future (It would be hard to be worse). They can be strong defenders and helpful.

3) I also agree that Nance isn't playing like a first or second option on offense. Or as people keep saying, "gifted." Anybody else notice he was on the bench for that final run? And I'm not sure he doesn't belong there - maybe for a "different view."

That's EASILY my biggest long-term concern.

4) But I also get the feeling a minor part of the Nance issue is related to how Spencer distributes the ball as the lead guard.

I know any criticism of Spencer is pretty unfair. He wouldn't be in this position with a good team. And I'm sure someone wants to show me Spencer's 22 points. But to not get Kopp - at least - several three-point attempts in the first half says something. Spencer needs to think about the team more and kick out the ball before he's taking another off-balance drive to the basket.

I know Spencer is doing okay for being put in a pretty bad spot. But this thing will not become acceptable if he doesn't improve his pick-up-game ballhandling and similar shot selection.

EDIT: Sorry to repeat the focus of Medill's post above on Spencer. I just saw it.

 

[Medill90]

1)I know any criticism of Spencer is pretty unfair. He wouldn't be in this position with a good team. And I'm sure someone wants to show me Spencer's 22 points. But to not get Kopp - at least - several three-point attempts in the first half says something. Spencer needs to think about the team more and kick out the ball before he's taking another off-balance drive to the basket.

I know Spencer is doing okay for being put in a pretty bad spot. But this thing will not become acceptable if he doesn't improve his pick-up-game ballhandling and similar shot selection.

EDIT: Sorry to repeat the focus of Medill's post above on Spencer. I just saw it.

There's no other way to characterize what Spencer continues to do other than it is absolutely amazing.

My comments are meant to be constructive.

I think Spencer is much more of 2 than a 1. With his background coming in to be a 2 is really tough. 1 is close to impossible.

 

[JournCat]

I think Spencer would pass more if the other guys could get open. And defenses know to key in on Kopp, especially with Buie out. Miller can't regularly catch and dribble past guys overplaying him, and even if we ran five screens in a possesion, teams can usually switch because the remaining guys aren't threats. I could be totally wrong on offensive strategy here, but what else is there to be done?

 

[TheC]

I think Spencer would pass more if the other guys could get open. And defenses know to key in on Kopp, especially with Buie out. Miller can't regularly catch and dribble past guys overplaying him, and even if we ran five screens in a possesion, teams can usually switch because the remaining guys aren't threats. I could be totally wrong on offensive strategy here, but what else is there to be done?

I agree with this. Either Miller has to make players pay for getting in his grill all the time, or else we need other guys who can consistently hit the three. The reason players in general get open looks at three is usually because their man has sagged off to play help defense. NU actually does have a couple guards this year who can demand help defense to rotate over to them between Boo and Spencer. However, opposing teams know Kopp is the only shooter you have to worry about it, so the guy guarding him is likely told never to leave him. His job is to stick on Kopp and let the other 3 defenders fall into the lane to help stop the penetration.

 

[bringbacktherantboard]

Yeah, that was a fun season. Now, we’re Northwestern again.

"Just Northwestern"

 

[peatymeanis]

My argument is that he has the most talent by far...

Huh? If he didn't have the NBA pedigree would people still be saying he has the most talent? He definitely hasn't shown it. He's just a tall, average athlete with poor basketball instincts and no real discernible skills on the court.

 

[Katatonic]

The best players in recent NU memory going back to Shurna showed signs of stardom their sophomore years. Nance at least is still so undersized that a jump might come next year. But it’s hard to expect that much more from Kopp or Greer.

Shurna, Coble, Law and Swop were all undersized and yet they were able to score and/or rebound against bigger/thicker competition.

 

[Medill90]

Shurna, Coble, Law and Swop were all undersized and yet they were able to score and/or rebound against bigger/thicker competition.

Nance is averaging 6.7 rebounds per game this, his first full season.

Coble and Shurna were career 5 rebounds/game guys.

Nance is better rebounder than either Coble or Shurna who at 6 8 - 6 9 and 215 were not undersized.

 

[CappyNU]

Nance is averaging 6.7 rebounds per game this, his first full season.

Coble and Shurna were career 5 rebounds/game guys.

Nance is better rebounder than either Coble or Shurna who at 6 8 - 6 9 and 215 were not undersized.

Yeah, Nance is easily the best rebounder of everyone listed above, but his problem is that he a) doesn't take enough shots, b) keeps chucking up flat 3's at a 29% clip and c) doesn't use his size to get inside and get to the line where he's 15-17 this year.

All Soph stats:
Coble 18.5% DReb, 28.6 Shot%, 17.8 FTRate
Shurna 15.8% DReb, 28.8 Shot%, 29.2 FTRate
Swop 19.3% DReb, 16.9 Shot%, 39.5 FTRate
Law 15.4% DReb, 21.8 Shot%, 33.4 FTRate
Nance 22.5% DReb, 22.8 Shot%, 14.5 FTRate

 

[Medill90]

Yeah, Nance is easily the best rebounder of everyone listed above, but his problem is that he a) doesn't take enough shots, b) keeps chucking up flat 3's at a 29% clip and c) doesn't use his size to get inside and get to the line where he's 15-17 this year.

All Soph stats:
Coble 18.5% DReb, 28.6 Shot%, 17.8 FTRate
Shurna 15.8% DReb, 28.8 Shot%, 29.2 FTRate
Swop 19.3% DReb, 16.9 Shot%, 39.5 FTRate
Law 15.4% DReb, 21.8 Shot%, 33.4 FTRate
Nance 22.5% DReb, 22.8 Shot%, 14.5 FTRate

Shon Morris had a really great point Sunday night in regards to Kopp's shooting. Minny covered Kopp with a blanket most of the game but, as Shon said, Kopp didn't force it and take bad shots. So, when the opening finally came, Kopp was mentally ready and his shooting put NU back into the game.

Nance gets frustrated and that leads to impatience and poor shots. His offensive game breaks down.

My argument is that the play level of our lead guards is a contributing factor.

The offense's motion and sets are designed to create opportunities. I see with Kopp, Nance and Turner when they are in a commitment to the offense. And Greer. But it takes five guys and the new guys aren't there. The timing doesn't look good to me. The picks. The handoffs. Rarely is it smooth.

So it doesn't create open shots the way it did a couple years ago. And so the lead guard reverts to taking the offense into his own hands. Driving into a tight/crowded lane or jacking up a shot.

And then NU fans look at the boxscore, see that the lead guard scored 20+ and think everyone but him is the problem.

Watch Greer when he's in. How hard he moves without the ball. How vocal he is with the ball, getting guys who aren't going to get the pass to move to create space, be in position to rub a defensive player off, all that. Greer actually sees some open lanes to the basket like B Mac did.

I have two worries.

One is that guys like Nance and Kopp are going to get really frustrated. The other is that when this group is supposed to be really good...next year and the year after...guard play isn't going to be where it's supposed to be.

 

[DaCat]

Kopp is deadly in catch-and-shoot situations. But not so much when he puts the ball on the floor and tries to dribble and shoot. That's an area where he definitely needs to improve.

 

[docrugby1]

he forced shots yesterday....tried to dribble into a shot....shot too soon....shot off balance.

My argument is that he has the most talent by far.....if he touches the ball all the time he won't feel compelled to press....Spencer yesterday was looking to create shots for Spencer first, and then others...that took Nance completely out of his game. Spencer had 6 more field goal attempts than Nance. It's the PG's role to direct the offense such that opportunities are created. That is not a two dimensional concept. It's not simply, "is there a guy open to receive the pass and shoot....if not, I'll create a shot." The PG needs to be thinking about passes and motion that lead to a pass and an opening that results in an open shot or a bunny.

I'd like to see Nance direct the offense more...I think that's his mentality...same with Kopp who seems to really understand what Collins wants on both ends of the floor.

You criticize Spencer for not directing the offense-the question should be what offense ? Talent is not NU's biggest problem

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

You criticize Spencer for not directing the offense-the question should be what offense ? Talent is not NU's biggest problem

Really? What B1G ten teams this year have less talent than NU?

 

[Fitz51]

Really? What B1G ten teams this year have less talent than NU?

Plenty.

Oh, wait. You mean at basketball.