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The spin on Vernon Carey wearing no.1

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hart2chesson

Heisman
Oct 13, 2012
14,303
16,574
0
BluePhil said:
He is an idiot. Duke has standards. Zion was great - he was exciting to watch - but unless he gets that degree he is undeserving of the number being retired.
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Totally agree ON he doesnt deserve number retired unless "he gets that degree." I won't agree Matt is "an idiot." I consider him well-informed and entertaining. Definitely respect your thoughts. OFC
 
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hart2chesson

Heisman
Oct 13, 2012
14,303
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jwill133 said:
"Two years ago, some Duke basketball fans — mostly those who yell at kids for stepping on their lawn — expressed outrage when Marvin Bagley III asked to wear No. 35 as a Blue Devil."

Quote of the year?
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And some of us OFC'ers AND OTHERS will forever feel that way my friend.... However varying opinions make the world AND MESSAGE BOARDS go around.....OFC
 
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mo.st.dukie

Junior
Jan 20, 2007
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It's interesting to think that it wasn't that long ago that K wouldn't let a player wear #1 because of some strange idea that it somehow put that player above the rest of the team. I like, as a fan, tracing the lineage of a jersey number and thinking of all the great players that have worn it. For instance, Matthew Hurt is choosing an iconic Duke jersey number as well that is attached to memories of some fantastic senior leaders. Cassius Stanley will wear the jersey number attached to such greats as Luol Deng, Nolan Smith, and Quinn Cook.

Zion was amazing, as was Jabari and Kyrie who also wore #1, but to have that jersey retired the player needs to have a 3 or 4 year career.
 
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Liftee

All-American
Mar 6, 2011
3,199
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I'm not sure what Matt Giles' point is. Duke should retire everyone's number who has a great season? What better way to honor Zion than to want to wear the same number he wore?

I still can't get used to newcomers wearing Kyle Singler's #12. We all have our pet peeves.

And until Jim Spanarkel has his number retired, I don't want anyone to have their number retired.
 
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Ioliva

All-Conference
Jul 30, 2009
41,395
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mo.st.dukie said:
It's interesting to think that it wasn't that long ago that K wouldn't let a player wear #1 because of some strange idea that it somehow put that player above the rest of the team.
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Why is it that everyone’s cool with k changing his standards on letting #1 be worn after so many years, yet it’s absurd that Williamson or brands jersey be retired? Yeah, Zion didn’t make a final 4. It wasn’t because of his play. He did everything he could to take us there. He took us to the elite 8 despite terrible coaching and adjustments imo and when you factor in his amazing accomplishments, I think that’s more than worthy. I just don’t get how we can pick and choose what standards are okay to change. Definitely think K should change this one.
 
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jimlsumner

All-Conference
Oct 30, 2003
3,735
1,474
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For the record, K has complete control over who wears what number.

He does not have complete control over whose number is retired. There are other stake-holders.

And there are a finite number of available numbers.

And forever is a long time.
 
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OldasdirtDevil

Heisman
Nov 16, 2009
19,469
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I've run out of words to describe the awesomeness of Zion. That said, Duke has tradition, and standards of excellence with an obligation to all former Duke players who were held to these rigorous levels of merit.
It wouldn't be fair to them imo to relax the rules of entry to the hallowed ground of jersey retirement.

I do think, as DJ has mentioned before, that someday something will be done to honor Zion, and that would be pretty cool.

OFC
 
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timo0402

Heisman
Feb 24, 2009
13,868
13,709
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OldasdirtDevil said:
I've run out of words to describe the awesomeness of Zion. That said, Duke has tradition, and standards of excellence with an obligation to all former Duke players who were held to these rigorous levels of merit.
It wouldn't be fair to them imo to relax the rules of entry to the hallowed ground of jersey retirement.

I do think, as DJ has mentioned before, that someday something will be done to honor Zion, and that would be pretty cool.

OFC
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ODD, we actually did a cool segment on this OTPC with Kenny Dennard. Have a listen if you have some time. Interesting points of view all around.
 
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Mpm277

All-Conference
Nov 23, 2010
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BluePhil said:
He is an idiot. Duke has standards. Zion was great - he was exciting to watch - but unless he gets that degree he is undeserving of the number being retired.
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I'm definitely not saying that Zion should have his number retired, but I absolutely disagree that getting your degree has *anything* to do with it.
 
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OldasdirtDevil

Heisman
Nov 16, 2009
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timo0402 said:
ODD, we actually did a cool segment on this OTPC with Kenny Dennard. Have a listen if you have some time. Interesting points of view all around.
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It's funny you mentioned the podcast, Timo, 'cause I was thinking last night that I need to catch up on them. I think I'm 2 (or maybe 3 behind). A lot of things been going on, but I believe I'm going to have time to get to them by the end of the week. Always good to hear different opinions.

OFC
 
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timo0402

Heisman
Feb 24, 2009
13,868
13,709
57
OldasdirtDevil said:
It's funny you mentioned the podcast, Timo, 'cause I was thinking last night that I need to catch up on them. I think I'm 2 (or maybe 3 behind). A lot of things been going on, but I believe I'm going to have time to get to them by the end of the week. Always good to hear different opinions.

OFC
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Completely! Hope you’re doing well buddy.
 
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nets on nets on nets

All-American
Jun 4, 2015
4,162
5,515
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Given the current criteria. No Duke player will ever get their number retired again until changes are made to the system.

Frankly, retired numbers are corny anyway. I think Zion deserves a statue outside Cameron.
 
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jimlsumner

All-Conference
Oct 30, 2003
3,735
1,474
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christophero said:
Maybe it's hypocritical but I think if you win a title it could offset not graduating.
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Jahlil Okafor was ACC POY, first-team All-America and the best player on an NCAA title team and no one is talking about retiring his jersey.

Duke is an academic institution of some distinction and requiring a degree as a pre-requisite to an honor of that nature seems quite reasonable to me.
 
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Mac9192

Heisman
Jan 25, 2017
9,135
12,947
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jwill133 said:
Given the current criteria. No Duke player will ever get their number retired again until changes are made to the system.

Frankly, retired numbers are corny anyway. I think Zion deserves a statue outside Cameron.
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You are probably right, that retired jerseys may not happen due to the landscape of today's game. But to say that retired numbers are corny is bordering on ignorance.
No matter what you believe, the nba was pretty good before Lebron, just as Duke was pretty good before Elton Brand.

I wouldn't argue with a statue of Zion.
 
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hart2chesson

Heisman
Oct 13, 2012
14,303
16,574
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jimlsumner said:
Jahlil Okafor was ACC POY, first-team All-America and the best player on an NCAA title team and no one is talking about retiring his jersey.

Duke is an academic institution of some distinction and requiring a degree as a pre-requisite to an honor of that nature seems quite reasonable to me.
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I agree with this line of reasoning....OFC
 
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hart2chesson

Heisman
Oct 13, 2012
14,303
16,574
0
Mac9192 said:
You are probably right, that retired jerseys may not happen due to the landscape of today's game. But to say that retired numbers are corny is bordering on ignorance.
No matter what you believe, the nba was pretty good before Lebron, just as Duke was pretty good before Elton Brand.

I wouldn't argue with a statue of Zion.
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HAHA, THEN THERE'S BEEN A WHOLE LOT OF "CORNYNESS" GOING ON IN GYMS ACROSS THE COUNTRY A LOT OF YEARS. YEAH ITS DEFINITELY NOT BEEN "CORNY." HOWEVER I HEAR OTHERS POINTS AND THOSE OF OTHERS- WE'LL FIND A WAY TO HONOR ZION I AM SURE. OFC
 
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dukehokie

All-American
Jun 27, 2005
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hart2chesson said:
HAHA, THEN THERE'S BEEN A WHOLE LOT OF "CORNYNESS" GOING ON IN GYMS ACROSS THE COUNTRY A LOT OF YEARS. YEAH ITS DEFINITELY NOT BEEN "CORNY." HOWEVER I HEAR OTHERS POINTS AND THOSE OF OTHERS- WE'LL FIND A WAY TO HONOR ZION I AM SURE. OFC
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My guess is he will have a place in the Duke Basketball Museum. That’s probably about it.

Not saying that’s a bad thing, but I personally think he deserves more. Kids will be talking about Zion for years. In terms of Duke recruiting, it would fall short to have a singular display of one of the greatest players we’ve seen at Duke tucked behind Jahlil Okafor’s shoe size.
 
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christophero

Heisman
May 2, 2017
16,649
20,013
113
It's an interesting debate. If Tre is an All American and wins a title does he get consideration? Because he is not better than Zion but in staying 2 years and winning a title he would have contributed more to Duke. But i agree you should graduate as well. But that may mean we never see another jersey retired.
 
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hart2chesson

Heisman
Oct 13, 2012
14,303
16,574
0
christophero said:
It's an interesting debate. If Tre is an All American and wins a title does he get consideration? Because he is not better than Zion but in staying 2 years and winning a title he would have contributed more to Duke. But i agree you should graduate as well. But that may mean we never see another jersey retired.
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Chris I think you have a valid point.If Tre cops both those honors, I am sure a segment of fans weigh in with a similar chorus. OFC
 
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BeerPoisoning

Senior
Feb 17, 2019
1,260
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Kyle Singler
#4 all-time points
#7 all-time rebounds
#1 total minutes played
#1 consecutive games played
National Champion
Final Four MVP
2nd team All-American
3X ACC tournament champ
2X 1st team All-ACC

If Duke isn’t willing to bend the rules for a guy who gave his soul to our school for 4 years because he wasn’t a 1st team All-American then I don’t believe Zion’s 1-year of individual success deserves the honor. (Of course I’m not intending any disrespect to Z)
 
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timo0402

Heisman
Feb 24, 2009
13,868
13,709
57
Winning a title has really nothing to do with the consideration although i guess it doesn’t hurt. You are required to graduate and i believe need some sort of national award or record, duke record, ACC record or the like. On top of that the the kicker is graduating. Which i think is pretty cool and should remain the standard. If Zion does comeback and graduate then, what do you do.

Find out what Kenny Dennard and the 5ptPlay team said on this very subject....OTPC


https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/5-point-play-podcast/id1450960226?i=1000436016973
 
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