The Team Points Deductions Will Continue Until Morale Improves

[Wrestleknownothing]

As part of a project to recreate all the tournament scores by building up from the individual matches to the team total, it is obvious that there is a key missing component: team point deductions.

So, now I am trying to back into them by assuming that any point total differential between my method and the publicly available scores is attributable to team point deductions (I have since been able to confirm these on Track with a lot of manual labor).

Using that method I think there have been a total of 64 team points deducted in the 9 tournaments between 2016 and 2025. In three cases it looks like a team had 2 team point deductions in a single tournament.

The ill-mannered 64 are (sorry about the rough formatting):

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

While Iowa has lost the most points in these nine years (5), they could afford it.

But Chattanooga has to be my favorite. After scoring 1.5 points on the mat, they look to have given back 2 points in deductions for a net -0.5 score in 2017. They were outscored by roughly 10 teams who were not there.

 

[jtothemfp]

As part of a project to recreate all the tournament scores by building up from the individual matches to the team total, it is obvious that there is a key missing component: team point deductions.

So, now I am trying to back into them by assuming that any point total differential between my method and the publicly available scores is attributable to team point deductions (I have since been able to confirm these on Track with a lot of manual labor).

Using that method I think there have been a total of 64 team points deducted in the 9 tournaments between 2016 and 2025. In three cases it looks like a team had 2 team point deductions in a single tournament.

The ill-mannered 64 are (sorry about the rough formatting):

Thanks again for your awesome research!

The Ill-mannered 64 lol.

I wonder, tho, how many of these 64 points were given to over exuberant celebrations, like the one administered to Pennsylvania State in 2018?

That's not a homework / research request, but could be fun for the comment thread. I know from experience that I've been far more (Pfarr Moore Haught Cox?; sorry, I think of that 197 semifinal every time I write "far more...") in tune with penalty points deductions when Im attending Nationals vs watching from home.

I remember a few of those OkSt pouting points. Guerrero walking the whole length of the arena in the ear of the refs long after bout end. Dude deserved it big time.

But the mildest, unfairest one I remember seeing was my first nationals, OKC 2014, just outside your data set. This is all from memory, so can't wait to look it up to see how addled it may or may not be, but the Boise State coach got absolutely ripped off...thinking it was against Boston Uni's Nestor in the blood round? Carl Adams first AA, or BU'a first AA? Can't remember the noise wrestler or coach name, but he got a terrible stall or takedown call late & lost. Coach approached the table & was entirely calm the whole time I was watching him. But I ofc couldn't hear him. When he finally departed, to calmly head to the tunnel, they announced his deduction in the arena.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

In 2015 Eblen of Missouri was DQ'd, and they lost all his team points, retroactively.

Although this falls outside of your lookback period, how would you detect and treat these kinds of tournament DQs in your analysis, including delta between individual match points and total team points?

 

[Cali_Nittany1]

While Iowa has lost the most points in these nine years (5), they could afford it.

But Chattanooga has to be my favorite. After scoring 1.5 points on the mat, they look to have given back 2 points in deductions for a net -0.5 score in 2017. They were outscored by roughly 10 teams who were not there.

As always, great work! I would've never guessed that Iowa had the most deducations....

In addition to UTC, Campbell is interesting.

Looking at your list, it looks like Michigan is the winner of most team points scored over that time period with 0 deductions.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

In 2015 Eblen of Missouri was DQ'd, and they lost all his team points, retroactively.

Although this falls outside of your lookback period, how would you detect and treat these kinds of tournament DQs in your analysis, including delta between individual match points and total team points?

Myself and two others on intermat are building a db of every NCAA tournament match. From that I am scoring every tournament from the individual match up using 1.) the current set of rules, and 2.) the rules that existed at the time.

I have done the current set of rules from 1941 - 2025. The current rule set has been in place since 2016 (hence my choice of window for round 1 of analysis). Using that I can look at deltas between my method and the official score to find areas where I might have an error or missing data (i.e. team point deductions). Then it is a lot of manual labor to chase those down.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Thanks again for your awesome research!

The Ill-mannered 64 lol.

I wonder, tho, how many of these 64 points were given to over exuberant celebrations, like the one administered to Pennsylvania State in 2018?

That's not a homework / research request, but could be fun for the comment thread. I know from experience that I've been far more (Pfarr Moore Haught Cox?; sorry, I think of that 197 semifinal every time I write "far more...") in tune with penalty points deductions when Im attending Nationals vs watching from home.

I remember a few of those OkSt pouting points. Guerrero walking the whole length of the arena in the ear of the refs long after bout end. Dude deserved it big time.

But the mildest, unfairest one I remember seeing was my first nationals, OKC 2014, just outside your data set. This is all from memory, so can't wait to look it up to see how addled it may or may not be, but the Boise State coach got absolutely ripped off...thinking it was against Boston Uni's Nestor in the blood round? Carl Adams first AA, or BU'a first AA? Can't remember the noise wrestler or coach name, but he got a terrible stall or takedown call late & lost. Coach approached the table & was entirely calm the whole time I was watching him. But I ofc couldn't hear him. When he finally departed, to calmly head to the tunnel, they announced his deduction in the arena.

I was looking into this anyway.

Of the 64 one was an error on the Penn State Wrestling Club website. Nebraska did not have a point deduction in 2016.

The remaining 63 breakdown to 42 unsportsmanlike conducts of varying flavors, 19 control of mat, and 2 late challenges.

It is hard to separate a headgear spike/toss from an intent to injure because there is little uniformity in the entries. That said, my favorite year was 2019 when they got real verbose. North Carolina lost a point for "throwing headgear in jubilation" and North Dakota State got dinged for "official claims coach heckling from corner".

 

[creamery freak]

As part of a project to recreate all the tournament scores by building up from the individual matches to the team total, it is obvious that there is a key missing component: team point deductions.

So, now I am trying to back into them by assuming that any point total differential between my method and the publicly available scores is attributable to team point deductions (I have since been able to confirm these on Track with a lot of manual labor).

Using that method I think there have been a total of 64 team points deducted in the 9 tournaments between 2016 and 2025. In three cases it looks like a team had 2 team point deductions in a single tournament.

The ill-mannered 64 are (sorry about the rough formatting):

Our 1 point deduction in 2018 occurred after Bo pinned MyMar and threw his headgear.

Off the record, I've totally forgiven him for that!

 

[El_Jefe]

Our 1 point deduction in 2018 occurred after Bo pinned MyMar and threw his headgear.

Off the record, I've totally forgiven him for that!

And then Snyder tossed his after his final, which is the tan deduction.

That was far more egregious because Ohio State.

 

[PennState1985]

And then Snyder tossed his after his final, which is the tan deduction.

That was far more egregious because Ohio State.

They even made him plead to disorderly conduct. He sure got the shaft.

 

[AgSurfer]

Our 1 point deduction in 2018 occurred after Bo pinned MyMar and threw his headgear.

Off the record, I've totally forgiven him for that!

On the record, that was my favorite team point deduction of all time.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

In 2015 Eblen of Missouri was DQ'd, and they lost all his team points, retroactively.

Although this falls outside of your lookback period, how would you detect and treat these kinds of tournament DQs in your analysis, including delta between individual match points and total team points?

Just finished 2013-2015 and Eblen cost Missouri a third place finish. They lost his 3 points and a team point to drop them to fourth place, two points behind Edinboro. Yikes.

But the real problem I am having is that I am finding sooooo many errors on the team score pages of the PSWC website. So far 2014 is the worst year with 7 errors.