There Will Be Consequences

[Wrestleknownothing]

My latest post on the most consequential matches in the history of the NCAA tournament just dropped.

Read it here:

There Will Be Consequences | Wrestling.Guru

Let’s acknowledge the obvious first. Every match matters. Teams that win titles win a lot of matches and each win is a part of the tapestry of a title. It i ...

wrestling.guru

 

[PSUbluTX]

My latest post on the most consequential matches in the history of the NCAA tournament just dropped.

Read it here:

There Will Be Consequences | Wrestling.Guru

Let’s acknowledge the obvious first. Every match matters. Teams that win titles win a lot of matches and each win is a part of the tapestry of a title. It i ...

wrestling.guru

Love it! Very interesting and fun read. I had to do a triple-take read on that Kinseth vs Zuspann example. The final tie breaker criteria in 1978 was really the referee's "opinion as to which wrestler was the superior wrestler"? Holy smokes!

Can you imagine Angel Rivera or some of the other current refs of questionable judgment deciding a winner based on his opinion of who looked better? Gotta think that would result in bedlam in any match of consequence today. Can't even imagine the potential reaction by TnT if their guy was on the losing end.

 

[AgSurfer]

Let's not forget about the consequences of Matt Ramos getting an upset pin over Spencer Lee. This match and the subsequent maternal reaction led to countless jokes, memes and other humor at the expense of Hawk fans.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

My latest post on the most consequential matches in the history of the NCAA tournament just dropped.

Read it here:

There Will Be Consequences | Wrestling.Guru

Let’s acknowledge the obvious first. Every match matters. Teams that win titles win a lot of matches and each win is a part of the tapestry of a title. It i ...

wrestling.guru

Might want to fix typo "to win tit all" in Roderick match

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

PSU 2014 title over Oklahoma State, who finished 3rd. DT over Caldwell in the finals.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Might want to fix typo "to win tit all" in Roderick match

Tell that to 1952 Oklahoma State runner up (to UNI) Tom Titsworth.

But, yeah, already done.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

PSU 2014 title over Oklahoma State, who finished 3rd. DT over Caldwell in the finals.

The gap (13 points) was too big to change the team outcome.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

The gap (13 points) was too big to change the team outcome.

Only after Nelson lost to Gwiz in the 285 finals, true?

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Only after Nelson lost to Gwiz in the 285 finals, true?

But that was a Minnesota/NC St match, not Minn/PSU. Or OSU/PSU.

All my examples are head-to-head between first and second place teams (and one third place) where a flip of that one match would flip the title.

In 2014 there was only one head-to-head match between a PSU wrestler and a Minn wrestler (Ruth majored Steinhaus), but it happened in the quarters so you would have to theorize too many other things happening after to say it had a direct consequence on the team outcome.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Let's not forget about the consequences of Matt Ramos getting an upset pin over Spencer Lee. This match and the subsequent maternal reaction led to countless jokes, memes and other humor at the expense of Hawk fans.

Hmmm. Most meme worthy matches is an interesting category.

Bo "That's What We DO" Nickal's 2018 184 final fits in this category too.

What else ya got?

 

[BriantheLion]

My latest post on the most consequential matches in the history of the NCAA tournament just dropped.

Read it here:

There Will Be Consequences | Wrestling.Guru

Let’s acknowledge the obvious first. Every match matters. Teams that win titles win a lot of matches and each win is a part of the tapestry of a title. It i ...

wrestling.guru

Wait… so Dave Arendt was ALSO an undefeated four time champion?

I thought that had only been accomplished by Cael!

What detail am I missing???

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Wait… so Dave Arendt was ALSO an undefeated four time champion?

I thought that had only been accomplished by Cael!

What detail am I missing???

No freshman eligibility prior to 1969, so Arndt is only a three time champion.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

I will now share my shame with you BEFORE I update the blog.

I forgot one.

In 1965 Iowa State came from way behind to pip Oklahoma State by a point by winning three head-to-head matches, two in third place matches and won in the final.

EDIT: On second thought I am not updating as there were at least five other matches that had to break the right way for ISU to win - and they did. ISU was down 22 points after Friday night, OSU had 5 in the finals, to ISU's 2, and somehow ISU won.

 

[Misalorales]

Hmmm. Most meme worthy matches is an interesting category.

Bo "That's What We DO" Nickal's 2018 184 final fits in this category too.

What else ya got?

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

View attachment 1166766

That poor guy has to live with that picture on the internet for the rest of his life.

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

@Wrestleknownothing, you do great work ... I appreciate you.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

But that was a Minnesota/NC St match, not Minn/PSU. Or OSU/PSU.

All my examples are head-to-head between first and second place teams (and one third place) where a flip of that one match would flip the title.

In 2014 there was only one head-to-head match between a PSU wrestler and a Minn wrestler (Taylor majored Stienhaus), but it happened in the quarters so you would have to theorize too many other things happening after to say it had a direct consequence on the team outcome.

In other words, write your own damn article!

Has any unseeded wrestler had as significant of an impact as Kyle Conel did on determining the NCAA team champion? You can title that article "Paupers Turned Princely Kingmakers" (or singular if Kyle is the onliest one).

Thanks for digging into the historical data to create interesting content.

 

[Misalorales]

That poor guy has to live with that picture on the internet for the rest of his life.

I laugh anytime I see it.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

I will now share my shame with you BEFORE I update the blog.

I forgot one.

In 1965 Iowa State came from way behind to pip Oklahoma State by a point by winning three head-to-head matches, two in third place matches and won in the final.

EDIT: On second thought I am not updating as there were at least five other matches that had to break the right way for ISU to win - and they did. ISU was down 22 points after Friday night, OSU had 5 in the finals, to ISU's 2, and somehow ISU won.

Yeah, that sounds like a different article all together "Longshot Squeakers."

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

In other words, write your own damn article!

Has any unseeded wrestler had as significant of an impact as Kyle Conel did on determining the NCAA team champion? You can title that article "Paupers Turned Princely Kingmakers" (or singular if Kyle is the onliest one).

Thanks for digging into the historical data to create interesting content.

No one loves talking about me more than me, so no problem at all.

 

[BriantheLion]

No freshman eligibility prior to 1969, so Arndt is only a three time champion.

I see… my bad, x2…

… I knew that freshmen weren’t eligible before the seventies, but didn’t think of it today…

… and I misread his picking up where he left off (before the war) BY winning his third… as picking up where he left off AFTER winning his third!(before the war).

 

[Goggles Paisano]

View attachment 1166766

The only thing that would make this more memorable would be some talcum powder and gas!

 

[Reiterate]

I

Let's not forget about the consequences of Matt Ramos getting an upset pin over Spencer Lee. This match and the subsequent maternal reaction led to countless jokes, memes and other humor at the expense of Hawk fans.

Must have missed that, what happened?

 

[Goggles Paisano]

I

Must have missed that, what happened?

I don't believe you.

 

[BWFight]

I

Must have missed that, what happened?

Aptly named poster

 

[mh-larch]

My latest post on the most consequential matches in the history of the NCAA tournament just dropped.

Read it here:

There Will Be Consequences | Wrestling.Guru

Let’s acknowledge the obvious first. Every match matters. Teams that win titles win a lot of matches and each win is a part of the tapestry of a title. It i ...

wrestling.guru

Your content is always excellent, but this was the best!!! Really great stuff, thanks so much. That had to take a ton of time, analysis, and research.

 

[o_BruceK-PSU83]

But that was a Minnesota/NC St match, not Minn/PSU. Or OSU/PSU.

All my examples are head-to-head between first and second place teams (and one third place) where a flip of that one match would flip the title.

In 2014 there was only one head-to-head match between a PSU wrestler and a Minn wrestler (Taylor majored Stienhaus), but it happened in the quarters so you would have to theorize too many other things happening after to say it had a direct consequence on the team outcome.

IIRC, Taylor was at 165, Steinhaus at 184.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

IIRC, Taylor was at 165, Steinhaus at 184.

Your recall is better than my reading. It was Ruth who beat Steinhaus, not Taylor. Good catch.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Your content is always excellent, but this was the best!!! Really great stuff, thanks so much. That had to take a ton of time, analysis, and research.

You are very kind.

 

[AgSurfer]

I don't believe you.

Anyone who follows college wrestling and doesn’t know about that incident is a true rarity indeed. That’s like a pro football fan from the late sixties who doesn’t know why the TV movie Heidi is significant.

 

[BriantheLion]

No freshman eligibility prior to 1969, so Arndt is only a three time champion.

Come to think of it, do you know, or are you able to find, how many other 3(of 3 chances) undefeated champions there were before freshmen were eligible, and thus might have had a chance of matching Cael with a fourth?

I got Dan Hodge…

 

[AgSurfer]

Come to think of it, do you know, or are you able to find, how many other 3(of 3 chances) undefeated champions there were before freshmen were eligible, and thus might have had a chance of matching Cael with a fourth?

I got Dan Hodge…

Former Penn State coach Bill Koll was another. Most people don’t know that Penn State actually had/has 2 undefeated coaches. How many other schools can make that claim?

 

[BriantheLion]

Former Penn State coach Bill Koll was another. Most people don’t know that Penn State actually had/has 2 undefeated coaches. How many other schools can make that claim?

When I was in high school, a couple of teammates and I went to a Saturday morning clinic… taught by Bill… and his assistant coach Rich Lorenzo… at the Penn State York Campus…

…Bill was an old (to us…~50 at the time) but tough looking guy!

…and Rich was a strapping young man in his mid twenties!)

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Come to think of it, do you know, or are you able to find, how many other 3(of 3 chances) undefeated champions there were before freshmen were eligible, and thus might have had a chance of matching Cael with a fourth?

I got Dan Hodge…

There were nine in total.



Though it is important to look at that win column. You think guys don't wrestle enough today? In the day they didn't have to toe the line very often.

 

[BriantheLion]

There were nine in total.



Though it is important to look at that win column. You think guys don't wrestle enough today? In the day they didn't have to toe the line very often.

Wow…only 6-8 matches/season for three of them…

Cael averaged 40 matches per season!

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Wow…only 6-8 matches/season for three of them…

Cael averaged 40 matches per season!

Travel was crazy expensive and slow in the 40's.

 

[BriantheLion]

Travel was crazy expensive and slow in the 40's.

I understand it was a BIG advantage to host(or be near the host) for the national tournament!

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

There were nine in total.



Though it is important to look at that win column. You think guys don't wrestle enough today? In the day they didn't have to toe the line very often.

I would have loved to watch Uetake wrestle. He actually won Olympic gold for Japan his sophomore year at Oklahoma State. He also won Olympic gold in 1968. OSU coach Myron Roderick said Uetake was "the best wrestler he ever saw or coached". "I don't know how good he was," said his collegiate coach, Myron Roderick. "because I never saw him challenged."

Here is his 1964 NCAA Finals match:


And here is a video on his wrestling career:

Two-Time Olympic Champion Wrestler Yojiro Uetake Part 2: Born in Japan, Made in America

He chats with me with a casual ease, talking about his life growing up in his home town of Oura, Gunma, while overlooking the training of high school wrestlers. Suddenly, his eyes sharpen, he shout…

theolympians.co

 

[WPIALBrwnPSU]

The referees in their White Uniforms look as if the just got out of the Bellevue Hospital padded van for a pickup.

 

[AgSurfer]

I would have loved to watch Uetake wrestle. He actually won Olympic gold for Japan his sophomore year at Oklahoma State. He also won Olympic gold in 1968. OSU coach Myron Roderick said Uetake was "the best wrestler he ever saw or coached". "I don't know how good he was," said his collegiate coach, Myron Roderick. "because I never saw him challenged."

Here is his 1964 NCAA Finals match:


And here is a video on his wrestling career:

Two-Time Olympic Champion Wrestler Yojiro Uetake Part 2: Born in Japan, Made in America

He chats with me with a casual ease, talking about his life growing up in his home town of Oura, Gunma, while overlooking the training of high school wrestlers. Suddenly, his eyes sharpen, he shout…

theolympians.co

Darrell Keller told me a funny story about how Uetake would use negative psychology on his brother, Dwayne. Uetake would badger him and tell him he was never going to be a national champion because he wasn't good enough. That got Dwayne steamed and motivated him to work harder and go into his matches determined to win. He ended up being a 3X national finalist and 2X NCAA champion, so I guess Uetake knew what he was doing.