This is why MLB should have pitchers throw their Intentional walks

[NoSoup4U]

Make the pitcher execute the throw. Many things can happen wild pitches, inadvertent strikes, balks

WCWS tonight....All world T Tech pitcher decides that,, to throw an IBB she wants to throw all high pitches---not intentional outsides pitches

all casual 60 mph tosses right over the center of the plate

Major blunder

 

[Marshall2323]

First of all softball is a much faster game than baseball. As an athletic director who stood for decades between our softball and baseball fields, even extra inning softball games were over long before the baseball game. As a purest, I agree. However, MLB has been responsive to wide spread criticism in terms of lack of action and length of games. Hence, the pitch clock, ghost runner and limited throws to first base to hold the runner.
I doubt we'll see them going back.
PS as a long time officials contract negotiator, if you want to officiate, softball is the way to go. At least in NY most areas pay the same for baseball and softball umpires.

 

[1995PSUGrad]

I take this just the opposite. To me this is why pitchers shouldn't have to throw the pitches to intentionally walk someone. The whole idea of throwing 4 pitches way outside to the point they are unhittable, which is what the pitcher should have done, is a complete waste of time. Just tell the ump that you want to put the batter on first.

 

[NoSoup4U]

I take this just the opposite. To me this is why pitchers shouldn't have to throw the pitches to intentionally walk someone. The whole idea of throwing 4 pitches way outside to the point they are unhittable, which is what the pitcher should have done, is a complete waste of time. Just tell the ump that you want to put the batter on first.

Waste of time??? that's the crux of the argument? why play the game at all? the players are there to play the game, it is for them first and foremost and you the fan to watch -- if it takes x amount of time then it takes x amount of time. The notion that we cant pay attention long enough to enjoy the nuances of the game is exactly what's wrong with us today--- so what you spend an extra 2-3 minutes watching ...got something else better to do?? why are you even watching at all then?

Ernie Banks is rolling in his grave

 

[BeerLion]

Waste of time??? that's the crux of the argument? why play the game at all? the players are there to play the game, it is for them first and foremost and you the fan to watch -- if it takes x amount of time then it takes x amount of time. The notion that we cant pay attention long enough to enjoy the nuances of the game is exactly what's wrong with us today--- so what you spend an extra 2-3 minutes watching ...got something else better to do?? why are you even watching at all then?

Ernie Banks is rolling in his grave

Could not agree more. I remember seeing pitches lose their focus and throw that intentional ball too far out side and it goes to the screen, scoring a runner from third. If you don't want to play the game, go play some other game.

 

[CFLion]

From my Little League days many moons ago....

A player from the opposing team was crushing the ball each at bat. He's at the plate late in a close game, our coach decides to intentionally walk him. Pitcher throws a couple of outside pitches. On the third pitch, the batter steps out over the plate and crushes the ball over the fence. It was ruled a home run, so I guess he kept his feet within the box.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Ernie Banks is rolling in his grave

How many 3.5 to 4 hour 9 inning games do you think that Ernie Banks played in? Whatever the guess is, I'll take the under.

 

[Connorpozlee]

From my Little League days many moons ago....

A player from the opposing team was crushing the ball each at bat. He's at the plate late in a close game, our coach decides to intentionally walk him. Pitcher throws a couple of outside pitches. On the third pitch, the batter steps out over the plate and crushes the ball over the fence. It was ruled a home run, so I guess he kept his feet within the box.

My junior year I was playing catcher. We’re up a run, bottom of the 9th (7th? I don’t remember how many innings we played), 2 outs, they have runners in 2nd and 3rd, cleanup hitter up who had already hit a home run. I go to the mound and tell the pitcher we’re going to intentionally walk him to set up forces at all bases and not pitch to this kid. He nods, I go back behind the plate. I stand up to get the outside pitch and he throws a meatball over the middle of the plate, home run, game over. On the bus ride home I ask him why he did that and he said he didn’t know what an intentional walk is so he just threw a fastball. Amazing.

 

[LionJim]

My junior year I was playing catcher. We’re up a run, bottom of the 9th (7th? I don’t remember how many innings we played), 2 outs, they have runners in 2nd and 3rd, cleanup hitter up who had already hit a home run. I go to the mound and tell the pitcher we’re going to intentionally walk him to set up forces at all bases and not pitch to this kid. He nods, I go back behind the plate. I stand up to get the outside pitch and he throws a meatball over the middle of the plate, home run, game over. On the bus ride home I ask him why he did that and he said he didn’t know what an intentional walk is so he just threw a fastball. Amazing.

I believe this 100%.

 

[Bison13]

As a baseball coach I like the idea of making the pitchers throw the IBB pitches but not having them count against their pitch count. I really like running plays on pitchouts. Over the years I've called for a pitchout play when we thought the opposing team was going to squeeze and have been able to get the runner at third even if they weren't actually squeezing. But it takes practice to throw a good pitchout (at the outside edge of the other batters box at minimum and at 80% velo) and noone practices that anymore.

 

[Bison13]

My junior year I was playing catcher. We’re up a run, bottom of the 9th (7th? I don’t remember how many innings we played), 2 outs, they have runners in 2nd and 3rd, cleanup hitter up who had already hit a home run. I go to the mound and tell the pitcher we’re going to intentionally walk him to set up forces at all bases and not pitch to this kid. He nods, I go back behind the plate. I stand up to get the outside pitch and he throws a meatball over the middle of the plate, home run, game over. On the bus ride home I ask him why he did that and he said he didn’t know what an intentional walk is so he just threw a fastball. Amazing.

Not exactly related to not knowing what an IBB is but it involves an IBB. About 25 years ago I was playing in a regional independent league, not a 'real' independent league like the Atlantic League, or even the Pecos league but a notch below. We didnt get weekly checks like those leagues but we got a few bucks and split the team's part of the 50-50 drawings.lol

Anyhow, we are in the bottom of the 11th inning, tied 2-2, and I'm still on the hill. Leadoff hitter gets on by E6 and they bunt the runner to 2B. My manager comes out and tells me we are going to walk the guy coming up (former Blue Jays farm hand and pitch to the guy after (former Orioles farm hand) to set up a force/DP, plus I've K'd the O's guy 3 times on the night so far. I kind of laugh and tell him it's not a good idea. He asks why and I tell him I dont know if I can get that guy out again, he's had some really good swings and I'm down in velo at that point. Coach doesnt care, I throw the four IBB pitches and then snap off a nasty duece for strike 1 on the O's guy. Next pitch I try to sneak a FB by him on the inner half and he hits the farthest HR ball I have ever given up in my life. The batting cages were outside the LF fence (365)and then behind those were the storage shed for the field grooming and mowing equipment. He hit the ball over all of those by another 30 feet. Ball traveled 450+ feet in the air.

 

[1995PSUGrad]

Waste of time??? that's the crux of the argument? why play the game at all? the players are there to play the game, it is for them first and foremost and you the fan to watch -- if it takes x amount of time then it takes x amount of time. The notion that we cant pay attention long enough to enjoy the nuances of the game is exactly what's wrong with us today--- so what you spend an extra 2-3 minutes watching ...got something else better to do?? why are you even watching at all then?

Ernie Banks is rolling in his grave

MLB has been concerned about the length of games for a long time. I don't blame them; the games are long.

I don't really understand your question of "why play the game at all?" When you are trying to get people out and the other team doesn't want to get out, you have to play. But when a team wants to put the runner at first and is going to have to throw 4 pitches that are completely unhittable, yes I do think that's a waste of time. What is wrong with just sending the runner to first?

 

[1995PSUGrad]

As a baseball coach I like the idea of making the pitchers throw the IBB pitches but not having them count against their pitch count. I really like running plays on pitchouts. Over the years I've called for a pitchout play when we thought the opposing team was going to squeeze and have been able to get the runner at third even if they weren't actually squeezing. But it takes practice to throw a good pitchout (at the outside edge of the other batters box at minimum and at 80% velo) and noone practices that anymore.

I was a baseball coach albeit a long time ago. I don't understand how you can want the pitcher to have to throw the pitches but then not have them count against the pitch count. Pitch counts are there for a reason and it the pitcher actually has to throw the pitches, it seems like they should count.

To me, when you talk about running a play off of a pitchout, you are talking about something different than throwing 4 intentional balls to put the runner at first. In your scenario, you are pretending to throw a regular pitch but trick the offense players by pitching out. That's not what we are talking about.

 

[Bison13]

I was a baseball coach albeit a long time ago. I don't understand how you can want the pitcher to have to throw the pitches but then not have them count against the pitch count. Pitch counts are there for a reason and it the pitcher actually has to throw the pitches, it seems like they should count.

To me, when you talk about running a play off of a pitchout, you are talking about something different than throwing 4 intentional balls to put the runner at first. In your scenario, you are pretending to throw a regular pitch but trick the offense players by pitching out. That's not what we are talking about.

Because I want the kids to actually practice the process. Both the battery, fielders and runners should know what to do each pitch, they should be watching the ball at all times, taking their leads the right way, etc. Pitch out pitches should not be thrown at 100% anyhow. It's a good learning tool, this way the P get reps at something the rarely practice in live situations. I know many leagues just give kids the free base but there are some that still make you throw the 4 pitches and I've seen some crazy things happen on them.

Runner on 3B, we know the team has a tendency to squeeze, we have the CI charge in yelling squeeze but throw a pitchout and back pick the runner at 3B with the SS. Do the same thing with a runner on 1B and back pick to the 2B. Runners on 1st/3rd, throw a pitchout to give the C a better lane to throw to 3B, etc.

Probably got 20+ free outs on the bases using those over the years. Three in one game once.

 

[laKavosiey-st lion]

I agree, I miss 4 hour games.

 

[IrishHerb]

MLB has been concerned about the length of games for a long time. I don't blame them; the games are long.

I don't really understand your question of "why play the game at all?" When you are trying to get people out and the other team doesn't want to get out, you have to play. But when a team wants to put the runner at first and is going to have to throw 4 pitches that are completely unhittable, yes I do think that's a waste of time. What is wrong with just sending the runner to first?

I know games are long .... too long these days. But how much time would throwing 4 quick pitches outside the strike zone take vs just walking the batter with no pitches? Probably less than a minute

And by forcing the pitcher to throw those balls, all kinds of things can happen, which makes the game more exciting.

 

[Marshall2323]

Bring back the cross body block

 

[Bvillebaron]

As a baseball coach I like the idea of making the pitchers throw the IBB pitches but not having them count against their pitch count. I really like running plays on pitchouts. Over the years I've called for a pitchout play when we thought the opposing team was going to squeeze and have been able to get the runner at third even if they weren't actually squeezing. But it takes practice to throw a good pitchout (at the outside edge of the other batters box at minimum and at 80% velo) and noone practices that anymore.

Sorry but if you want the pitcher to throw 4 pitches instead of being able to simply point to first base then the pitches count. If the batter swings at a pitch way off the plate during an intentional walk and flies out does that pitch count but the first three didn’t? I like the current MLB rule; if you are going to put him on, just let him trot down there and move the game along. The fact that something odd happens once in a blue moon when you make the pitcher throw 4 pitches; doesn’t warrant changing the rule, especially in the major leagues.

 

[Bvillebaron]

As a baseball coach I like the idea of making the pitchers throw the IBB pitches but not having them count against their pitch count. I really like running plays on pitchouts. Over the years I've called for a pitchout play when we thought the opposing team was going to squeeze and have been able to get the runner at third even if they weren't actually squeezing. But it takes practice to throw a good pitchout (at the outside edge of the other batters box at minimum and at 80% velo) and noone practices that anymore.

Sorry but if you want the pitcher to throw 4 pitches instead of being able to simply point to first base then the pitches count. If the batter swings at a pitch way off the plate during an intentional walk and flies out does that pitch count but the first three didn’t? I like the current MLB rule; if you are going to put him on, just let him trot down there and move the game along. The fact that something odd happens once in a blue moon when you make the pitcher throw 4 pitches; doesn’t warrant changing the rule, especially in the major les Jen

 

[laKavosiey-st lion]

I know games are long .... too long these days. But how much time would throwing 4 quick pitches outside the strike zone take vs just walking the batter with no pitches? Probably less than a minute

And by forcing the pitcher to throw those balls, all kinds of things can happen, which makes the game more exciting.

It’s like Mazdas gram strategy. They look at EVERYTHING and build as light as possible. Glass, carpeting, pistons….
That’s why the ND weighs 2500lbs

 

[NoSoup4U]

How many 3.5 to 4 hour 9 inning games do you think that Ernie Banks played in? Whatever the guess is, I'll take the under.

I think the point was it’s a game to be enjoyed so much so that it might be worth playing two. Regardless of how manay he actually played that were extras.

 

[NoSoup4U]

I was a baseball coach albeit a long time ago. I don't understand how you can want the pitcher to have to throw the pitches but then not have them count against the pitch count. Pitch counts are there for a reason and it the pitcher actually has to throw the pitches, it seems like they should count.

To me, when you talk about running a play off of a pitchout, you are talking about something different than throwing 4 intentional balls to put the runner at first. In your scenario, you are pretending to throw a regular pitch but trick the offense players by pitching out. That's not what we are talking about.

So do you count the warm up pitches before each inning? Why don’t we count them?

 

[Erial_Lion]

I think the point was it’s a game to be enjoyed so much so that it might be worth playing two

If Ernie Banks played in an era where games stretched as long as they got before the latest rules changes, he'd likely be fine with playing one and getting ready for tomorrow. I commend MLB for finding ways to cut back on what was becoming the ridiculous length of games.

 

[NoSoup4U]

If Ernie Banks played in an era where games stretched as long as they got before the latest rules changes, he'd likely be fine with playing one and getting ready for tomorrow. I commend MLB for finding ways to cut back on what was becoming the ridiculous length of games.

Maybe blame TV for that?

 

[G3624]

Easiest thing to do is turn the television cameras off, that would speed up the game.

 

[Ludd]

If Ernie Banks played in an era where games stretched as long as they got before the latest rules changes, he'd likely be fine with playing one and getting ready for tomorrow. I commend MLB for finding ways to cut back on what was becoming the ridiculous length of games.

The problem is, like all sports, they supposedly want to shorten games, but they nibble at the edges to do it….its like saying I want to lose weight so I’m only going to eat like crap six days in a week instead of seven. If they really want to shorten the games, play seven innings instead of nine, otherwise just play the game. Same with college football, cut down on the commercials or just admit you want long games. In college basketball they need to eliminate a bunch of timeouts for each team when they get four TV timeouts per half. They say they want to shorten games, but they don’t really.

 

[Bison13]

Sorry but if you want the pitcher to throw 4 pitches instead of being able to simply point to first base then the pitches count. If the batter swings at a pitch way off the plate during an intentional walk and flies out does that pitch count but the first three didn’t? I like the current MLB rule; if you are going to put him on, just let him trot down there and move the game along. The fact that something odd happens once in a blue moon when you make the pitcher throw 4 pitches; doesn’t warrant changing the rule, especially in the major leagues.

Pitcher pitch counts aren’t rules in mlb, I’m talking about hs and below

 

[CDLionFL]

PS as a long time officials contract negotiator, if you want to officiate, softball is the way to go. At least in NY most areas pay the same for baseball and softball umpires.

There have been many times when I've worked a baseball game with a softball game starting a few minutes AFTER and we're sitting in the 4th inning while the softball game is going thru the handshake line. There has to be a way to get pitchers to speed things up like they do on the softball field.

 

[Ludd]

There have been many times when I've worked a baseball game with a softball game starting a few minutes AFTER and we're sitting in the 4th inning while the softball game is going thru the handshake line. There has to be a way to get pitchers to speed things up like they do on the softball field.

Softball only plays seven innings, so that helps a lot. Also, softball pitchers don’t have to hold runners on base, which takes up a lot of time. Softball, by its rules, is a faster game….they would have to change the game of baseball to make it anywhere near that quick.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Softball only plays seven innings, so that helps a lot. Also, softball pitchers don’t have to hold runners on base, which takes up a lot of time. Softball, by its rules, is a faster game….they would have to change the game of baseball to make it anywhere near that quick.

HS baseball games are also 7. But yes, it’s a much different pace of game. I loved umpiring good varsity softball games…and in NJ, it only paid a couple of dollars less (and yes, the norm was that you’d be walking off the field when the baseball game was in the top of the 5th or so).

 

[Marshall2323]

....There have been many times when I've worked a baseball game with a softball game starting a few minutes AFTER and we're sitting in the 4th inning while the softball game is going thru the handshake line. There has to be a way to get pitchers to speed things up like they do on the softball field.

Holding runners on....pitching changes ....bigger field of play.....just a few of the time consuming differences that won't change IMO.

 

[Shadow99]

Sorry but if you want the pitcher to throw 4 pitches instead of being able to simply point to first base then the pitches count. If the batter swings at a pitch way off the plate during an intentional walk and flies out does that pitch count but the first three didn’t? I like the current MLB rule; if you are going to put him on, just let him trot down there and move the game along. The fact that something odd happens once in a blue moon when you make the pitcher throw 4 pitches; doesn’t warrant changing the rule, especially in the major les Jen

Not necessarily udpated on Little League (LL) rules, but are intentional walks even allowed at that level or would it have to "appear" to be just pitching around a batter? I would understand if that wouldn't be acceptable in LL because it would take away someone's chance to hit.

I don't remember noticing it happening at the LLWS or anything, but the reason I ask is that the pitch counts in LL are extremely important as it pertains to pitcher availability, which of course could be the difference between a W and an L. The conversation seems to be shifting between different levels (MLB, semi-pro leagues, etc.), so wasn't sure if the "pitch count" comments were referencing Little League specifically, in which pitch counts are not just a statistic, but rather an eligibility requirement.

EDIT: Looks like Bison13 clarified that he was referencing lower levels (hs and below). I hadn't reached that point in the thread before posting lol...

 

[Erial_Lion]

Not necessarily udpated on Little League (LL) rules, but are intentional walks even allowed at that level or would it have to "appear" to be just pitching around a batter? I would understand if that wouldn't be acceptable in LL because it would take away someone's chance to hit.

I don't remember noticing it happening at the LLWS or anything, but the reason I ask is that the pitch counts in LL are extremely important as it pertains to pitcher availability, which of course could be the difference between a W and an L. The conversation seems to be shifting between different levels (MLB, semi-pro leagues, etc.), so wasn't sure if the "pitch count" comments were referencing Little League specifically, in which pitch counts are not just a statistic, but rather an eligibility requirement.

EDIT: Looks like Bison13 clarified that he was referencing lower levels (hs and below). I hadn't reached that point in the thread before posting lol...

In Little League, you're allowed to walk each player once per game by verbally requesting it. Doing it an additional time requires throwing the 4 pitches. And if you do verbally request the intentional walk, you also add 4 pitches to the pitcher's Pitch Count (or however many more pitches it would take to walk the batter if it's requesting in the middle of an at-bat).

And note that High School (Federation rules) also uses pitch counts, so it doesn't just end at Little League.

 

[Alphalion75]

I take this just the opposite. To me this is why pitchers shouldn't have to throw the pitches to intentionally walk someone. The whole idea of throwing 4 pitches way outside to the point they are unhittable, which is what the pitcher should have done, is a complete waste of time. Just tell the ump that you want to put the batter on first.

I'm a '75 PSU grad. The 20 years difference may be the reason you and I disagree on this issue.