Thoughts/insight from an outside perspective

[ticket2ride04]

Hi fellas, I have refrained from posting recently since jumping back into the fray, but wanted to come here with a thought and maybe a question or two.

I am not here to beat the 'K needs to play more guys' drum, as he is coaching the way he has always done. And the record speaks for itself. From what little I have seen of Duke, Allen and especially Ingram are prime time players. Ingram will be a great pro and is much better than I imagined.

There has been griping that K needs to play Jeter and Obi, but it sounds like they aren't ready to contribute. And it looks like K earnestly belived/believes they can win deep into the tourney. My question is as follows, how far will Duke need to fall, before says to heck with competing, lets start playing these guys for future development?

I remember these tough years at UNC after the 2005 and 2009 exodus. The best thing we did is just let the young guys play through adversity. It stinks, but I would gladly take a couple down years for a Championship here and there.

 

[Dattier]

K won't punt. We already have 4 guys in the current rotation who will be back next year and some instant impact recruits coming in. Any PT Jeter earns will be through practice plus fruitful short, strategic stints in games. Next year's PT will depend some on offseason development. Aside from the odd match-up need, Obi won't be getting any significant burn this year, and has a lot to do to get in shape and make any on-court contribution next season.

If we get Amile Jefferson back and some things fall into place, we could make a run at a FF. Perhaps K has a secret asterisk similarly qualifying his confidence. And maybe it's a coaching tactic. In 2010, he made a point of refusing to call a veteran, alarmingly unathletic team "great" until they won the title. I think that kept them hungry. This year's team is way younger and less certain, and he's talking them up, praising their effort, shrugging off the losses. They probably need that.

 

[ticket2ride04]

K won't punt. We already have 4 guys in the current rotation who will be back next year and some instant impact recruits coming in. Any PT Jeter earns will be through practice plus fruitful short, strategic stints in games. Next year's PT will depend some on offseason development. Aside from the odd match-up need, Obi won't be getting any significant burn this year, and has a lot to do to get in shape and make any on-court contribution next season.

If we get Amile Jefferson back and some things fall into place, we could make a run at a FF. Perhaps K has a secret asterisk similarly qualifying his confidence. And maybe it's a coaching tactic. In 2010, he made a point of refusing to call a veteran, alarmingly unathletic team "great" until they won the title. I think that kept them hungry. This year's team is way younger and less certain, and he's talking them up, praising their effort, shrugging off the losses. They probably need that.

Good analysis. I have never known K to punt and you are spot on about the big recruits coming in next year.

It would be awesome to crawl inside the mind of some of these coaches to find out what they really think

 

[Dattier]

It would be awesome to crawl inside the mind of some of these coaches to find out what they really think

You'd only have to crawl on Roy Williams' sleeve.

 

[ticket2ride04]

You'd only have to crawl on Roy Williams' sleeve.

Touché

 

[Jake1985]

Sometimes with development comes sacrifice. K will not play players just to develop them for the future because he holds value in the current team and wants to do what's in their best interest especially the Sr's.

 

[DukeDenver]

K won't punt. We already have 4 guys in the current rotation who will be back next year and some instant impact recruits coming in.

Is Grayson for sure coming back? If you ask me, DI is being overly optimistic about next year too.

Even if Grayson is back, look at our rotation:

DT ---- Frank
Grayson ---- Matt
Luke ---- [Luke/Tatum]
Tatum ---- DeLaurier ---- Obi
Giles ---- Chase ---- Vrank

There is a bunch of inexperience in our front court again. Giles and Tatum may end up being enough (we all hope so at least), but you really never know. If Grayson decides to try for the first round, that leaves us with 4 total guards and one freshman wing, kind of like this year. For us to improve, we'd need Tatum and Giles to be more valuable than a senior Amile/Plum, and we'd need better decision making and defense by DT/Matt/Luke with maybe a solid contribution from Frank.

Having said all that, Grayson likely returns and Tatum and Giles are beasts by January 2017, but we've got to go out and earn it. No matter the outcome, Duke basketball in the OAD era sure is exciting.

 

[JCColsCane]

I don't believe Duke can fall far enough that "K" would give up on the season just to develop players. The players right now that are busting their guts every game, have too much hard work invested, for anyone to give up on them.
With all but one loss coming down to a possession or two, this team is too close to just give up on. Yes, it could get worse, but when all you know is the "how to" and "desire to" win, there is no way you will ever give up.
Would I like to see Chase and Sean playing, I'd be a fool to say I wouldn't, but then there is this thing called "reality" that sets in. As I said before, Chase is totally overwhelmed right now, and I think we missed a little on Obi.
I will go out on a limb here (please don't blast me) and say that I still think Chase will make a difference this year, somewhere along the line he is going to come into a game and things are going to click for him, which is all he needs, just a few minutes for things to go right, and maybe his confidence takes off (like I always say, never, ever, give up).
Go Duke!!


JC-OFC

 

[dukiejay]

Is Grayson for sure coming back? If you ask me, DI is being overly optimistic about next year too.

Even if Grayson is back, look at our rotation:

DT ---- Frank
Grayson ---- Matt
Luke ---- [Luke/Tatum]
Tatum ---- DeLaurier ---- Obi
Giles ---- Chase ---- Vrank

There is a bunch of inexperience in our front court again. Giles and Tatum may end up being enough (we all hope so at least), but you really never know. If Grayson decides to try for the first round, that leaves us with 4 total guards and one freshman wing, kind of like this year. For us to improve, we'd need Tatum and Giles to be more valuable than a senior Amile/Plum, and we'd need better decision making and defense by DT/Matt/Luke with maybe a solid contribution from Frank.

Having said all that, Grayson likely returns and Tatum and Giles are beasts by January 2017, but we've got to go out and earn it. No matter the outcome, Duke basketball in the OAD era sure is exciting.

I'm still up in the air on Grayson. Some people I trust seem to think he's likely gone.

Tatum and Giles (if healthy) are the type of players who not only can make instant impacts, they're All-American type players as freshman. I know that's a lot of praise....but they're special. And I think with Matt, Luke and Derryck returning, along with the addition of Frank, that's got the potential to be one of the best backcourts in the country without Grayson.

 

[Dattier]

Huh. I haven't heard much buzz about the possibility of Grayson leaving.

 

[Dattier]

I will go out on a limb here (please don't blast me) and say that I still think Chase will make a difference this year, somewhere along the line he is going to come into a game and things are going to click for him, which is all he needs, just a few minutes for things to go right, and maybe his confidence takes off (like I always say, never, ever, give up).
Go Duke!!


JC-OFC

I also think Chase could suddenly have a breakthrough and contribute this year, but not in the same way I thought Elliot Williams or Grayson might. Beyond the mental stuff, Chase is really thin and he's not very strong. It takes bigs longer to get it sometimes.

In the bold, while I won't blast you for that, either, it looks as if you're saying it's a matter of K giving him minutes, when it's really a matter of him earning minutes, then performing well enough to earn more.

 

[Anon1728003274]

As far as Grayson goes, and this is MERELY speculative, he's really SHOWCASED this year along w/BI as part of our offense...Hes having a terrific year! I just feel like its 50/50 whether he returns....I hate to lose him, because I think we're a solid final four pick next year if GA returns!

 

[Dattier]

As far as Grayson goes, and this is MERELY speculative, he's really SHOWCASED this year along w/BI as part of our offense...Hes having a terrific year! I just feel like its 50/50 whether he returns....I hate to lose him, because I think we're a solid final four pick next year if GA returns!

I don't see his draft stock being something he can't pass up after this season. He isn't ready to be a PG, and other than impressive athleticism, there isn't a specific thing that stands out and helps him fit a niche, like JJ's shooting. He'd be counting on someone falling in love w/ him for the total package. I think he has room to grow and improve his draft stock.

As for the possibility of someone falling in love w/ him... how crazy is a D Wade comparison?

 

[DukeDenver]

Grayson needs a mid range game and better on-ball defense before he's comparable to D Wade. For next year, a bunch rides on Giles and Tatum. We go as far as those two allow.

 

[denverexpat]

Where does the inside presence come from next year? Amile and Marshall are gone - Jeter will be pretty much untested
If Thon or Maker dont commit then that makes the inside very inexperienced. Could be another tough year for rebounding and post play. Any reassuring thoughts on next years big man situation?

 

[Dattier]

Where does the inside presence come from next year? Amile and Marshall are gone - Jeter will be pretty much untested
If Thon or Maker dont commit then that makes the inside very inexperienced. Could be another tough year for rebounding and post play. Any reassuring thoughts on next years big man situation?

I hear Thon and Maker are a package deal.

 

[dukiejay]

Where does the inside presence come from next year? Amile and Marshall are gone - Jeter will be pretty much untested
If Thon or Maker dont commit then that makes the inside very inexperienced. Could be another tough year for rebounding and post play. Any reassuring thoughts on next years big man situation?

You're assuming everything stays as it is now. The staff isn't going to give up on Jeter and Obi because they're not ready this season.

 

[Anon1728003274]

You're assuming everything stays as it is now. The staff isn't going to give up on Jeter and Obi because they're not ready this season.

And Vrankovic as well I assume?? Sometimes the biggest strides are made offseason in pick up games and the weight room!

 

[dukiejay]

I think Vrank was brought in for more down the road. We could see big strides from him next season, though, too.

 

[HeLooks2MuchLikeDave]

I hear Thon and Maker are a package deal.

Hopefully Marques and Bolden are a package deal too

 

[JCColsCane]

[QUOTE) Dattier
In the bold, while I won't blast you for that, either, it looks as if you're saying it's a matter of K giving him minutes, when it's really a matter of him earning minutes, then performing well enough to earn more.[/QUOTE]

No, I don't believe K is going to give him minutes, he will have to earn them or the team will be put in a spot where K has to use him. It's going to be up to Chase to hopefully play up to his potential for a few minutes, and earn more playing time, which is what we need badly!
Go Duke!!


JC-OFC

 

[QC Dukie]

The package deal of Brandon and Ingram has worked out really well for us .

OFC