Thoughts on Josh Forrest, et al

gamecockcat

Heisman
Oct 29, 2004
10,524
13,501
0
First, I find it incomprehensible that one of our best defenders, a two-year starter at LB in the SEC, can only do 11 reps with 225 lbs. As many on here have stated, it's really not that difficult to bench 225 if you're 240 lbs to begin with, you're a terrific athlete, you have excellent training facilities, excellent nutrition and diet assistance, professional trainers, etc. It takes discipline, work, motivation. You've just got to do the work and have goals in mind. Evidently, Josh did not do that nor does it look like the staff required it of him (and others).

Second, the above brings up some questions/observations:

1. Who is ultimately at fault here: Forrest or the coaching staff? Obviously, Josh has to take some responsibility and ownership but it sure seems like the staff either should've been riding him harder or sitting him down if he wasn't improving his strength. While the sport is not weightlifting, it only seems logical that shedding blocks, stopping ballcarriers in the hole, ripping the ball out, etc. would only become easier the stronger a player is.
2. While Forrest had good speed for a LB, I noticed throughout his career that he had trouble getting off blocks, making stops on the initial hit, etc. I'm now a little more optimistic that our run defense just might be a little better with stronger athletes manning the LB position. Could this physical weakness be one of the big reasons our team seems to be 'out-physicaled' in many games, especially SEC games? And, bear in mind, most of our players are not undersized. It's not related to weight as far as I can tell. It looks to me like it's strength and technique. Isn't that what the coaching staff is supposed to supply: motivation for strength conditioning and technique instruction?
3. It looks like there was a pretty wide discrepancy between players on the team. Those who worked hard and prepared their bodies and those who didn't. Staff has to be accountable for getting players ready to play and only playing those who have prepared properly. A bit concerned about such a wide gulf, even among players who started or played a significant number of snaps.
 

Mr Schwump

Heisman
Nov 4, 2006
29,563
23,097
18
First, I find it incomprehensible that one of our best defenders, a two-year starter at LB in the SEC, can only do 11 reps with 225 lbs. As many on here have stated, it's really not that difficult to bench 225 if you're 240 lbs to begin with, you're a terrific athlete, you have excellent training facilities, excellent nutrition and diet assistance, professional trainers, etc. It takes discipline, work, motivation. You've just got to do the work and have goals in mind. Evidently, Josh did not do that nor does it look like the staff required it of him (and others).

Second, the above brings up some questions/observations:

1. Who is ultimately at fault here: Forrest or the coaching staff? Obviously, Josh has to take some responsibility and ownership but it sure seems like the staff either should've been riding him harder or sitting him down if he wasn't improving his strength. While the sport is not weightlifting, it only seems logical that shedding blocks, stopping ballcarriers in the hole, ripping the ball out, etc. would only become easier the stronger a player is.
2. While Forrest had good speed for a LB, I noticed throughout his career that he had trouble getting off blocks, making stops on the initial hit, etc. I'm now a little more optimistic that our run defense just might be a little better with stronger athletes manning the LB position. Could this physical weakness be one of the big reasons our team seems to be 'out-physicaled' in many games, especially SEC games? And, bear in mind, most of our players are not undersized. It's not related to weight as far as I can tell. It looks to me like it's strength and technique. Isn't that what the coaching staff is supposed to supply: motivation for strength conditioning and technique instruction?
3. It looks like there was a pretty wide discrepancy between players on the team. Those who worked hard and prepared their bodies and those who didn't. Staff has to be accountable for getting players ready to play and only playing those who have prepared properly. A bit concerned about such a wide gulf, even among players who started or played a significant number of snaps.

I'm willing to give anybody the benefit of the doubt, maybe he has/had an injury that prevented him from maintaining/improving his strength. Maybe something like a shoulder injury. But otherwise, this is on him. The guy is what, 23y/o? If he doesn't know by now what he needs to get to the NFL there's not much hope for him. Truth be known, he's probably been told numerous times over the years he needs to boost his strength.

His is a good story. To go from a former walk-on WR to potential NFL career as a LB is a bizarre path to travel. I wish him luck but he's faded and now must hope he can at least get into a NFL camp....if he wants to play.
 

docholiday51

Heisman
Oct 19, 2001
22,011
26,718
0
He had a ton of tackles but many were when he shoved a runner out of bounds or wrestled him to the ground 5 or 6 yards downfield.If you think back to last season he was never a 'meet the runner in the hole and stuff him' linebacker. The concerning thing is apparently we didn't have anyone that could do it any better. On the bright side Love and Laster couldn't play last season and everyone else is a year older and hopefully stronger

I hope that Forrest makes a roster somewhere and gets a shot to play if that is what he wants to do.He has enough speed to be a good special teams player on probably all types of special teams.
 
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JABJRS

All-Conference
Aug 12, 2002
2,326
1,493
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He had a ton of tackles but many were when he shoved a runner out of bounds or wrestled him to the ground 5 or 6 yards downfield.If you think back to last season he was never a 'meet the runner in the hole and stuff him' linebacker. The concerning thing is apparently we didn't have anyone that could do it any better. On the bright side Love and Laster couldn't play last season and everyone else is a year older and hopefully stronger

I hope that Forrest makes a roster somewhere and gets a shot to play if that is what he wants to do.He has enough speed to be a good special teams player on probably all types of special teams.


I think the staff was really counting on Love getting eligible last season; Forest could then have been moved to OLB, a position he is much more suited for. Nico Firios just wasn't ready yet and then had injury problems so Josh stepped up and did the best he could (just as he did for all of his career without complaint).

Second, while Josh's lack of strength is alarming the fact of the matter is that some folks just aren't strong, per se and struggle to put on good muscle weight. Also, Josh has long arms which affects your bench press.

I'm not making excuses for him, the BP showing was not good, to put it delicately. However, he is a kid that always seemed to be giving 100% for the team when he was out there, and played out of position almost his entire career. Furthermore, he never caused trouble or let his teammates down (cough....Jason Hatcher), but rather acted as a team leader.

I hope he gets his shot in the league at OLB (rather than middle) and makes the most of it.
 

ukats22

Senior
Dec 24, 2007
1,785
706
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I think the staff was really counting on Love getting eligible last season; Forest could then have been moved to OLB, a position he is much more suited for. Nico Firios just wasn't ready yet and then had injury problems so Josh stepped up and did the best he could (just as he did for all of his career without complaint).

Second, while Josh's lack of strength is alarming the fact of the matter is that some folks just aren't strong, per se and struggle to put on good muscle weight. Also, Josh has long arms which affects your bench press.

I'm not making excuses for him, the BP showing was not good, to put it delicately. However, he is a kid that always seemed to be giving 100% for the team when he was out there, and played out of position almost his entire career. Furthermore, he never caused trouble or let his teammates down (cough....Jason Hatcher), but rather acted as a team leader.

I hope he gets his shot in the league at OLB (rather than middle) and makes the most of it.
 
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ukats22

Senior
Dec 24, 2007
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706
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I know I have mentioned this many times in the past, but the line play was not as bad as lb play over the last couple of years when speaking of defending the run. Those that would blame our poor play against the run on the dl did not know what they were looking at.

Dave
 

BlueRattie_rivals

All-Conference
Feb 6, 2014
1,052
1,943
0
He had a ton of tackles but many were when he shoved a runner out of bounds or wrestled him to the ground 5 or 6 yards downfield.If you think back to last season he was never a 'meet the runner in the hole and stuff him' linebacker. The concerning thing is apparently we didn't have anyone that could do it any better. On the bright side Love and Laster couldn't play last season and everyone else is a year older and hopefully stronger

I hope that Forrest makes a roster somewhere and gets a shot to play if that is what he wants to do.He has enough speed to be a good special teams player on probably all types of special teams.


It's important to note that he was playing out of position in the wrong style of defense. If he makes it at the next level, it'll be as a weakside linebacker in a 4-3 scheme--not an inside linebacker in a 3-4. ILBs in the 3-4 are generally 265 pound downhill run stuffers. Forrest's strength is his length, speed, and coverage ability, which are all assets when covering backs and TE's in a 4-3. If he makes it in the NFL, that's where he'll be.
 

Bigtyrone

All-American
May 21, 2002
10,510
6,168
98
Wasn't he sick (puking) the night before the combine? I think that I read that in an article someone posted.
 

docholiday51

Heisman
Oct 19, 2001
22,011
26,718
0
I agree he probably was playing out of position,he did stick around and go thru position change and switch sides of the ball.I hope he sticks somewhere at the next level but it doesn't change the fact that he struggled to give us what we needed at ILB,as some have said the LB position was more the reason we couldn't play the run all that well than was the DL last year.As a unit we have more people who should be better suited to play LB this coming season
 

K_TIME

Heisman
Jan 2, 2003
18,104
24,970
113
The only excuse is if Josh had a shoulder/arm injury...even if he had a stomach bug...you can still bench press to some degree. Josh was always a MLB that could really move and cover in pass game, but his ability vs. the run was never all that eye opening.

I've felt since mid part of last season that Love would at least be as good as Forrest next year and probably an upgrade overall. Forrest is a guy Stoops inherited but it would have been nice to see better play out of Forrest and Flannigan last year...they were not a very good interior tandem last year.
 

cardsfan53

Junior
Apr 15, 2005
5,659
225
0
Will LB in a 4-3 scheme would fit Forest better IMO. I think he will make an NFL roster because of his speed.