To put it in perspective
- Thread starter tuck66
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UK fans, football and basketball, border on too impatient, too impressible and too ignorant of whichever sport they follow the most. Not just you, but you, me and most of this board.
Stoop's first class was shared with Joker and the pantry was empty from previous years. This will be his true third year for recruiting and not one redshirt senior to be seen from his recruiting classes yet.
If that doesn't give you some pause then what will? Has anyone checked on Vandy's wunderkind now at Penn. How is he doing without the upper classmen redshirts he was gifted by previous Vandy coaches and their red shirting policies?
Should Stoop's be let go, this or next year, then the coach following will be another "flash in the pan" wunderkind. He will inherit Stoop's mature redshirted recruits. Then the truly ignorant will say "we told you so. It was Stoop's poor coaching that held us back. We had the talent all along".
Personally, I'm waiting for next and the following year to see a "leap" forward into the upper division of the SEC. Meanwhile I'll just stay the course, with the rest, and trust that recruiting quality remains high.
Stoop's first class was shared with Joker and the pantry was empty from previous years. This will be his true third year for recruiting and not one redshirt senior to be seen from his recruiting classes yet.
If that doesn't give you some pause then what will? Has anyone checked on Vandy's wunderkind now at Penn. How is he doing without the upper classmen redshirts he was gifted by previous Vandy coaches and their red shirting policies?
Should Stoop's be let go, this or next year, then the coach following will be another "flash in the pan" wunderkind. He will inherit Stoop's mature redshirted recruits. Then the truly ignorant will say "we told you so. It was Stoop's poor coaching that held us back. We had the talent all along".
Personally, I'm waiting for next and the following year to see a "leap" forward into the upper division of the SEC. Meanwhile I'll just stay the course, with the rest, and trust that recruiting quality remains high.
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I think MB should give MS a four year extension and 500k a year raise. Problem solved and the UK program will be saved!! :smiley::scream:[roll]
Last I checked Stoops did beat Muskrat head to head. In fact he has beaten him many times.
Many times? They have only went against each other 3 times and Stoops has the 1 win.
Yes...but don'[t let facts get in the way.
- I'm not sold on Stoops but I for dang sure don't want Muskrat at UK....his job at UF was plenty enough for me to wait on him to redeem himself at another job before I'd give him UK job.
- UK did beat USC straight up...so I don't get what is so miraculous of a job Muskrat is doing vs. Stoops.
- USC has out recruited UK every year but 1 in the last 4 years...so I'm pretty sure USC has equal or more talent than UK. It's not like he took over Vandy or some dumpster fire program
- USC has only done 1 thing UK hasn't...beat UT. Other than that their season if very much the same....barely beat Vandy, hung on vs. Mizzou (a team UK throttled), UF handled them pretty easily last week, Lost to MSU and was handled by UGA.
USC season basically mirrors UK...if we're dissapointed in our season to a degree...why would we be so impressed with USC's?
Thanks for providing an example of what I was talking about. Couldn't have done better if I had wanted.
I live in Columbia, SC. Have season ticks for SCAR FB. I am a cats fan first! But I know as much about SCAR FB as I do UK FB. Spurrier wanted his name to do his recruiting for him here at SC, especially in the later years as at his age he didn't want to have to do all the travel and legwork. That said, that is why he resigned.....He knew that it was going to be bad in 2015 and he had no depth / talent beyond. Will Muschamp VERY much inherited a dumpster fire like Stoops did. Thus my point......very young team much like UK. So why is his record going to be on par or better than UK's 11 months into his tenure.....Food for thought.
SEC East is far worse now than Stoops first year in 2013. Credit, though, for beating UT.
Duly noted. But yes they did beat a better UT team. UK has got to shed this MENTAL disadvantage they give themselves for these teams.....FLA, UT, UGA etc. etc.
Yes..four years in and Stoops has got this...you are right I'm an idiot! Like I said , MB should give him another long term extension and a fat raise... Problem solved ..WOW how could I be so blind.
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2013: 2 wins
2014: 5 wins
2015 5 wins
2016: 5 wins with a likely 6th win on Saturday....
Could we have won more? Sure. Could we have lost more? Sure.
But, with my simple mind, our wins are increasing year-by-year with a bowl likely this year.
It might not be fast enough improvement for some, but considering we are 5-5 with a backup QB (for the most part) who is struggling through the air.....
If someone told me after 10 games, we'd be 5-5 with:
1. Losing Hatcher
2. Losing Meant
3. Losing Tubman (who we would have counted on this year probably)
4. Having to use our backup QB
5. Losing West
6. 7 sophomores on D
8. Playing Austin Peay for our 6th win
I think most of us would have been happy with going to a bowl.
Improvements still must be made, no doubt. however, I like to focus on what's going on that's good instead of dwell on the negative.
2014: 5 wins
2015 5 wins
2016: 5 wins with a likely 6th win on Saturday....
Could we have won more? Sure. Could we have lost more? Sure.
But, with my simple mind, our wins are increasing year-by-year with a bowl likely this year.
It might not be fast enough improvement for some, but considering we are 5-5 with a backup QB (for the most part) who is struggling through the air.....
If someone told me after 10 games, we'd be 5-5 with:
1. Losing Hatcher
2. Losing Meant
3. Losing Tubman (who we would have counted on this year probably)
4. Having to use our backup QB
5. Losing West
6. 7 sophomores on D
8. Playing Austin Peay for our 6th win
I think most of us would have been happy with going to a bowl.
Improvements still must be made, no doubt. however, I like to focus on what's going on that's good instead of dwell on the negative.
Likely a better record?
So you either expect UK to lose to Austin Peay or SC to beat Clemson.
They will LIKELY end up with the same overall record and will have a worse conference record. Congratulations, they didn't lose to a bad East Carolina!
I don't recall where I heard this but I heard a discussion the other day where they were talking about coaches and expectations. They brought up Bruce Pearl who's been pretty successful everywhere he's been. Well, he has 2 seasons behind him at Auburn now and he's 26-40 (11-20 last year)...and this is college basketball where it is much, much easier to build a program. So is Pearl a bad coach or is it much harder to turn around a program with no history or tradition of winning than winning at programs that have a good traditions?
Who has a more difficult job...Muschamp or Stoops?
We saw what happened at Florida when Muschamp took over.
Pretty much agree but UK went 4-for-5 in their swing games this year. Many will disagree, but I'll take that over 2-for-5 with a win or the big three.
I would say that SC caught UT at the right time. Hurd was a cancer on the team and for all purposes quit during that SC game. Add Kamara and Sutton were both still out.
Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good.
Spoke with a UT guy in my office this morning. He was very complimentary of UK's offense. Couldn't believe the success we had running the ball.
He also talked about how much healthier the Vols were this weekend. They have had a number of starters out for the past few weeks - some as many as eight weeks.
He also talked about how much healthier the Vols were this weekend. They have had a number of starters out for the past few weeks - some as many as eight weeks.
Not sure what your point is about franklin.
Penn st is 8 - 2 and tied with mich and osu (who they've beaten) for 1st place.
If they win out they're big 10 champs.
I was pretty low after the Florida loss. But after seeing what Gran can do with an offense, and Stoops can do with a defense; I think he deserves more time.
With good qb play, we really could have one of the best offenses in the entire nation. Plus we'll be a bit deeper and more talented on D next year.
With good qb play, we really could have one of the best offenses in the entire nation. Plus we'll be a bit deeper and more talented on D next year.
How about you go compare USC jrs last 4 years of recruiting before Muschamp took over to the previous 4 years recruiting before Stoops took over. Then it becomes pretty obvious why Muschamp is doing better in year 1 than stoops
You say he has no depth or talent but look at the rankings of the previous 5 recruiting classed for USC: 2015 - 19, 2014 - 17, 2013 - 16, 2012 - 19, 2011 - 19. Avg. Ranking: 18th.
Now when compared to the previous 5 classes at UK before Stoops took over: 2012 - 67, 2011 - 66, 2010 - 53, 2009 - 43, 2008 - 57. Avg. Ranking: 57th
These are only rivals rankings and I know class rankings aren't completely accurate, but there is a glaring difference in the talent Stoops had available to the talent Muschamp has available...on paper.
And the SEC east is way down from where it was in 2013. And Muschamp has previous head coaching experience in the SEC
I'm not sold on Stoops. He has made his share of mistakes. But he is improving.
I'm just saying it's not really fair to compare Stoops first year with Muschamps
And if you watched the UGA game, did you see how much bigger their athletes were at almost all positions?
UK is still catching up with recruiting compared to the rest of the SEC....
We have made progress, but it is what it is....
UKFBFan78, totally agree! I was just looking at these stats and then you saw you posted them. There is no comparison, Muschamp inherited a team that was much better off talent-wise than the one Stoops did. At this point I don't see a whole lot of difference between Stoops and Muschamp as coaches. I like our improvement this year since games 1-3 but one could argue that maybe we should not have ever been that bad to begin with. Stoops should get year 5 but he needs to produce next year, 5-7 or worse won't cut it for me. If I'm being totally honest, 6-6 and another crappy bowl won't cut it for me either.
For me, this team needs to go 7-5 or better next year. That will be difficult given the way the schedule shakes out unless there is a lot of improvement on the defensive side of the ball and an accurate QB emerges. If neither of those things happens I just don't see how anyone could predict anything other than another mediocre season next year.
I don't follow SC but I have long thought of them as UK's true SEC "peer opponent" (many similarities over the years). That said, both teams are headed to what appears to be 6-6 overall records. However, UK is 4-4 in the SEC and SC is 3-5 in the SEC. The main difference here appears to be UK's wins over SC and MSU (both in Lexington) and SC losses to UK and MSU (both on the road).
Assuming a win and a loss in their last 2 games, CMS has met what what most considered the "minimal expectations" for this season. As I look back I still believe the key to UK's "success" so far was the win over SC. Had the Cats lost that one they would have come out of Tuscaloosa with practically unsalvageable 1-4 record. The Cats appear to be headed for a 3-3 mark over the second half of the season and a 1-3 mark over the last 4 games
I have no idea what was a rational expectation for SC. They started the year 2-4 and appear to be on track for a 4-2 second half finish including 2-2 over the last 4 games. I'm not sure what SC fans "expected" from Muschamp but that is a good turnaround from the first half of the season. Given the fact it is his first year at SC (and he was taking over a depleted roster, returning 9 starters from a 3-9 team), you can certainly cut him some slack for a slow start.
Sagarin SOS for both teams is almost equal (SC a bit stronger) maybe because SC had to play 3 of 4 winnable SEC games on the road. OTOH, UK got to play 3 of 4 winnable SEC games in CWS. I think that means something in determining overall records.
FWIW, I'm still on the fence about both coaches but it does appear Muschamp has done a fairly credible job in his first year at SC. All, of course, JMO.
Peace
Assuming a win and a loss in their last 2 games, CMS has met what what most considered the "minimal expectations" for this season. As I look back I still believe the key to UK's "success" so far was the win over SC. Had the Cats lost that one they would have come out of Tuscaloosa with practically unsalvageable 1-4 record. The Cats appear to be headed for a 3-3 mark over the second half of the season and a 1-3 mark over the last 4 games
I have no idea what was a rational expectation for SC. They started the year 2-4 and appear to be on track for a 4-2 second half finish including 2-2 over the last 4 games. I'm not sure what SC fans "expected" from Muschamp but that is a good turnaround from the first half of the season. Given the fact it is his first year at SC (and he was taking over a depleted roster, returning 9 starters from a 3-9 team), you can certainly cut him some slack for a slow start.
Sagarin SOS for both teams is almost equal (SC a bit stronger) maybe because SC had to play 3 of 4 winnable SEC games on the road. OTOH, UK got to play 3 of 4 winnable SEC games in CWS. I think that means something in determining overall records.
FWIW, I'm still on the fence about both coaches but it does appear Muschamp has done a fairly credible job in his first year at SC. All, of course, JMO.
Peace
It really goes to show you just how important quarterback play is. Muschamp was doing crappy before pulling the redshirt off of his freshman quarterback. Now he's found a guy who seems to have nerves of steel back there and it has helped to turn their season around. Similarly, UK lost their quarterback, but they've leaned heavily on the run game and their quarterback has somewhat helped that. However, the limitations of that quarterback have also limited the UK offense to some degree. If Stoops can find the right guy at quarterback then he can look really good, especially with a down SEC East. We'll see how that goes next year with several new faces and the possibility of a healthy Barker, and with how Johnson develops as a passer.
Lets see how quarterback and wide receivers development works out before we start lauding praise on Stoops.
I will bet that if we offered him $10,000,000 a year with a long guaranteed contract we could get the coach that was a failure at Florida.
You know we have a lot more going for us than Florida does.
But I will bet you several coaches would have turned that down when Stoops took the job. Money isn't everything.
You know we have a lot more going for us than Florida does.
But I will bet you several coaches would have turned that down when Stoops took the job. Money isn't everything.
We will catch up with SC in the near future. I know they have owned us the last 3 years but...