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Unfortunately for a program like ours, this comes with the territory...

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IPSYCHOSIS

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It’s easy to say all that from ya couch. Thats what I take from it. The picture is bigger than he presented in all that mess as to why some of this happened the way it did. Sure Ks not perfect (closer than anybody else) and could have done some things different , but that’s as far as I’m going with that.
 
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LouisiAaron

All-Conference
Feb 15, 2017
2,305
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3
I don’t think Coach K even realized how good Zion was. He took his talents for granted. He didn’t give him the ball enough because he figured Zion would score off rebounds. Zion should’ve been used exactly like Bagley. No way he shouldn’t have led in field goal attempts
 
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pisgah101

pisgah101

Heisman
Dec 26, 2005
15,253
12,794
113
dachampishere2 said:
I don’t think Coach K even realized how good Zion was. He took his talents for granted. He didn’t give him the ball enough because he figured Zion would score off rebounds. Zion should’ve been used exactly like Bagley. No way he shouldn’t have led in field goal attempts
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Yep. He could of easily averaged 30+
 
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acc hoops

All-Conference
Mar 24, 2004
2,651
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Cannot argue with anything about this article. 1 more outside shooter would have made all of the difference. Maybe it is time for Duke to be the underdog.
 
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dukiejay

Heisman
Mar 2, 2005
11,293
16,311
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Hindsight is always 20/20. Like I've said previously, outside shooting was the one worry I had with this team. They didn't even live up to my 'worst-case' scenarios in my head. That's how bad it was.

Having said that, it's not like this group was void of shooting potential. Both Cam and Alex have reputations as shooters....they just fell short. Same with Tre and R.J....they didn't have shooting reps, but even they fell short of where we thought they would be.
 
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hart2chesson

Heisman
Oct 13, 2012
14,303
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dukiejay said:
Hindsight is always 20/20. Like I've said previously, outside shooting was the one worry I had with this team. They didn't even live up to my 'worst-case' scenarios in my head. That's how bad it was.

Having said that, it's not like this group was void of shooting potential. Both Cam and Alex have reputations as shooters....they just fell short. Same with Tre and R.J....they didn't have shooting reps, but even they fell short of where we thought they would be.
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Agree 100%.....
 
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RanDEVILman

Senior
Jan 13, 2014
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I just like how K got critiqued and is still getting critiqued. Meanwhile, Izzo (a HOF Legend in his own right) gets very little attention for falling short. Or how about Roy, they got smoked in the tourney for the second straight year. I'm not making direct comparisons necessarily because theyre all diff scenarios. But it just shows how the media jumps on a few teams and rides them. Duke, LeBron, the Patriots. And trust me, I dislike LeBron and the Pats, but they still get over scrutinized for every little and major decision. My point is (and Bruce Pearl said it too) coaches, players, refs, make mistakes in every game. That is part of it. So why do some get all the attention.
 
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duke0527

All-American
Jan 5, 2005
4,715
6,048
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The shooting was bad this year, but wasn’t the reason they lost in the tournament. They lost mainly because they didn’t play well, caused very few turnovers and committed way too many.
 
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nets on nets on nets

All-American
Jun 4, 2015
4,162
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All fair points. The shooting was supposed to be provided by Cam and AOC, and neither lived up to standards.
In Cam's defense, he was never ever identified as a "stand in the corner and make the open 3" guy. He was an off-the-dribble streaky shooter. The role we needed him to perform didn't fit his profile.
I thought AOC would give us more this year. I thought he had a chance to be a 10 ppg guy, and he just wasn't. We know the defense prevented him from getting a ton of minutes, but he still needed to be better. I'm assuming his confidence took a hit when he would go from playing 25 minutes to 0...I get that.


And yeah. Zion needed to get a lot more shots. Just me, but running plays on offense probably would have increased Zion shots.
 
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bullettoothtony

All-Conference
Mar 29, 2010
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hart2chesson said:
Its the media hits when Duke falls short. We''re such a great program and NATIONAL BRAND, you have to expect it. However I am not putting blinders on and saying things couldnt have been better. I hope this brings back even a HUNGRIER G.O.A.T. NEXT YEAR!!!!

https://www.sbnation.com/college-ba...-march-madness-michigan-state-ncaa-tournament

OFC
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Sorry but not only do I agree with almost all of it, I've been making most of those points in conversations for the past week.

The stat about Barrett in the 3 losses with Zion in the lineup... whew.
 
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Devilinside

All-Conference
Dec 30, 2010
2,214
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duke198025 said:
The shooting was bad this year, but wasn’t the reason they lost in the tournament. They lost mainly because they didn’t play well, caused very few turnovers and committed way too many.
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That very accurately sums it up, together with Izzo's defense on RJ and Zion, which turned them over numerous times each.
 
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Mac9192

Heisman
Jan 25, 2017
9,133
12,943
107
As a whole, our one and dones haven’t been what we needed them to be, and our role players have been really bad.
The role players can’t get better cause they don’t see the court, and they just aren’t improving like they should. That’s a problem in some form or another.

People complain that we don’t have shooters, and that’s true. But the better question is why don’t we, or why don’t the ones we think that can shoot play more?

Balance. We don’t have enough, and our ball movement gets stale as the year wears on.
You shoot the ball better as the ball moves better.
 
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CRAZIE4LIFE

All-Conference
Feb 16, 2011
3,748
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Ranked top 5 all year, Zion won pretty much every award possible, and upsets happen every March. Dang the over analyzing of Duke gets annoying.
 
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IPSYCHOSIS

All-Conference
Dec 22, 2016
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duke198025 said:
The shooting was bad this year, but wasn’t the reason they lost in the tournament. They lost mainly because they didn’t play well, caused very few turnovers and committed way too many.
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It played a hell of a part in us not cutting down the nets is all I know. Nobody has won it all shooting as bad as we did. I could argue it actually was the reason they lost that game even with all their turnovers....Completely different game with (ok) shooting. Mainly the spacing! Oh and 2 made FTs lol. But yea turnovers killed us!
 
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skysdad

Heisman
Mar 3, 2006
42,753
22,653
0
IPSYCHOSIS said:
It played a hell of a part in us not cutting down the nets is all I know. Nobody has won it all shooting as bad as we did. I could argue it actually was the reason they lost that game even with all their turnovers....Completely different game with (ok) shooting. Mainly the spacing! Oh and 2 made FTs lol. But yea turnovers killed us!
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Totally agree especially free throw shooting. We haven't been a good free throw shooting team for a few seasons now. As many times as we go to the free throw line we should be 80 per cent as a team every year. There were other factors but poor free throw shooting cost us big time this year especially against MSU when we need it the most. OFC
 
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LastWaltz

Redshirt
Feb 4, 2008
696
25
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Roster construction has been my biggest issue with K for quite a while and most of it is a fall out from the decision to go all in on OAD. When you don’t know what your team is going to look like year to year or understand how long you can count on certain individuals it is tough to understand where your needs will reside.
 
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LouisiAaron

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Feb 15, 2017
2,305
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CRAZIE4LIFE said:
Ranked top 5 all year, Zion won pretty much every award possible, and upsets happen every March. Dang the over analyzing of Duke gets annoying.
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this team shouldn't have had 2 near upsets and an actual upset. If we actual run plays for Zion in the post then we get easier buckets because he's a willing passer
 
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hart2chesson

Heisman
Oct 13, 2012
14,303
16,574
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RanDEVILman said:
I just like how K got critiqued and is still getting critiqued. Meanwhile, Izzo (a HOF Legend in his own right) gets very little attention for falling short. Or how about Roy, they got smoked in the tourney for the second straight year. I'm not making direct comparisons necessarily because theyre all diff scenarios. But it just shows how the media jumps on a few teams and rides them. Duke, LeBron, the Patriots. And trust me, I dislike LeBron and the Pats, but they still get over scrutinized for every little and major decision. My point is (and Bruce Pearl said it too) coaches, players, refs, make mistakes in every game. That is part of it. So why do some get all the attention.
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Very on target.....

OFC
 
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tclark6

Junior
Mar 25, 2005
661
324
0
I just wish Zion was our closer every single game...remember, RJ came in as the higher rated recruit and I think there was a sense of obligation to drawing up plays for him at the end of the game but those plays should have gone to Zion every time... honestly when you have someone who gets to the rim and finishes as efficiently as Zion you don’t need too much from three... a few threes to give us breathing room and Jack White provided that early on but was never the same after his slump and Cam just was not the shooter we thought he would be this year and it happens... I really wanted these guys to get to the final four for the awesome experience...they deserved to have that but it just didn’t happen..
 
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bullettoothtony

All-Conference
Mar 29, 2010
1,196
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RanDEVILman said:
I just like how K got critiqued and is still getting critiqued. Meanwhile, Izzo (a HOF Legend in his own right) gets very little attention for falling short. Or how about Roy, they got smoked in the tourney for the second straight year. I'm not making direct comparisons necessarily because theyre all diff scenarios. But it just shows how the media jumps on a few teams and rides them. Duke, LeBron, the Patriots. And trust me, I dislike LeBron and the Pats, but they still get over scrutinized for every little and major decision. My point is (and Bruce Pearl said it too) coaches, players, refs, make mistakes in every game. That is part of it. So why do some get all the attention.
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When you're in the GOAT conversation you're going to get more scrutiny. Comes with the territory.

I like Izzo, but comparing him to K is like comparing Drexler (also a hall-of-famer) to Jordan. Which of those guys is going to get more analysis?
 
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dukehokie

All-American
Jun 27, 2005
19,624
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tclark6 said:
I just wish Zion was our closer every single game...remember, RJ came in as the higher rated recruit and I think there was a sense of obligation to drawing up plays for him at the end of the game but those plays should have gone to Zion every time... honestly when you have someone who gets to the rim and finishes as efficiently as Zion you don’t need too much from three... a few threes to give us breathing room and Jack White provided that early on but was never the same after his slump and Cam just was not the shooter we thought he would be this year and it happens... I really wanted these guys to get to the final four for the awesome experience...they deserved to have that but it just didn’t happen..
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No chance K ran those plays in March, because RJ was the “higher rated recruit.” Zion and RJ both were routinely double and triple teamed. Go back and watch. The plays should have been run for Cam and Jav against MSU in a perfect world.

I absolutely agree with the notion that K’s adherence to the 5 out squandered this team’s potential strength. That strength was Tre attacking and finding open scorers.

This was nowhere near K’s best job. Also not his worst considering this was one of the worst shooting title contenders in NCAA history. The shooting was a problem, but not THE problem. It was a problem coupled with a problem stylistically. Getting away from the transition game ultimately doomed this squad.
 
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hart2chesson

Heisman
Oct 13, 2012
14,303
16,574
0
RanDEVILman said:
I just like how K got critiqued and is still getting critiqued. Meanwhile, Izzo (a HOF Legend in his own right) gets very little attention for falling short. Or how about Roy, they got smoked in the tourney for the second straight year. I'm not making direct comparisons necessarily because theyre all diff scenarios. But it just shows how the media jumps on a few teams and rides them. Duke, LeBron, the Patriots. /QUOTE]

Ran you're right on point. However when you're at the top of the heap so long of arguably the most premier program in college hoops that coverage is MULTIPLIED like no other program.

Again though back to your point: Roy has stunk up the joint the last two years. A thumping at hands of Texas A&M last year in Charlotte no less,and another whipping by Auburn this year. Roy had more talent and leadership both years, and was so talent rich this year he brought a potential lotto pick off the bench. Very little written about his failures, but living in NC I know he has a built in fanbase in the media....

OFC
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IPSYCHOSIS

All-Conference
Dec 22, 2016
4,095
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dukehokie said:
No chance K ran those plays in March, because RJ was the “higher rated recruit.” Zion and RJ both were routinely double and triple teamed. Go back and watch. The plays should have been run for Cam and Jav against MSU in a perfect world.

I absolutely agree with the notion that K’s adherence to the 5 out squandered this team’s potential strength. That strength was Tre attacking and finding open scorers.

This was nowhere near K’s best job. Also not his worst considering this was one of the worst shooting title contenders in NCAA history. The shooting was a problem, but not THE problem. It was a problem coupled with a problem stylistically. Getting away from the transition game ultimately doomed this squad.
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That strength was Tre attacking and finding open *shooters? I think shooting was THE problem :)
 
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hart2chesson

Heisman
Oct 13, 2012
14,303
16,574
0
dukehokie said:
No chance K ran those plays in March, because RJ was the “higher rated recruit.” Zion and RJ both were routinely double and triple teamed. Go back and watch. The plays should have been run for Cam and Jav against MSU in a perfect world.

I absolutely agree with the notion that K’s adherence to the 5 out squandered this team’s potential strength. That strength was Tre attacking and finding open scorers.

This was nowhere near K’s best job. /QUOTE]

Hokie sound analysis. Remember how WELL Tre had penetrated in the ACC TITLE GAME vs FSU??? We got away from that.... OFC
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