Vassar Transfers to Tennessee Tech
- Thread starter pschatz25
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I hope he does well there. Good for him that he got the NU degree.
I don't get how he has 2 years of eligibility though. I thought the rule was, 5 years to complete 4 seasons of competition. He used 4 at NU with 1 year of competition, so shouldn't he just have 1 remaining year of eligibility?
NCAA.org lists the following terms for a waiver:
Waiver: An action that sets aside an NCAA rule because a specific, extraordinary circumstance prevents you from meeting the rule. An NCAA school may file a waiver on your behalf; you cannot file a waiver for yourself. The school does not administer the waiver, the conference office or NCAA does.
It would seem like Vassar’s situation was “specific” and “extraordinary,” but a school would have had to go through the process to file a waiver for him.
Good for Johnnie. Glad he landed on his feet and got his degree.
In retrospect, we probably shouldn't have run him out of the program. If he had redshirt, at least he would have been a serviceable PG today and it's not like we used his scholarship slot any of those years.
Because nobody has ever refuted that CCC verbally abused Vassar and wanted him off the team.
"Look at this site this is the list of guys that are transferring this year. Don't wait to long and a guy that your better than gets a place you wanted to go." (sic), of course
It’s hard to get mad at a kid who you recruit as a student athlete using the system to actually be a student. Sure, he used the system, but think of the opportunity he would have been blowing if he didn’t.
I'm on board with no one should be run out of the program. I don't know that he was, I don't know that he wasn't. I am appreciative of the fact that the university got it right, despite athletics.
In regards to "would have been a serviceable PG"....no. Unfortunately for NU and Vasser, he's not a point guard, can't learn to be a point guard, will never be a point guard. He would have been a good practice player on the defensive end of the court because of his speed. But the film doesn't lie on the point guard topic. Tino is miles ahead in that regard.
Most importantly, I know some guys in Evanston who have worked with the young man. All say he is of excellent character, does not dwell on nor discuss what happened and only wants to find his professional fit. So I'm delighted he earned his NU degree.
It may be worth re-reading the Vice story on Vassar from late March:
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/53x5pq/did-northwestern-basketball-run-off-johnnie-vassar
At the time it was published, I remember thinking it was a hack job by someone who hated Collins. I don't feel that way now. While the story is light on what happened in the three months Vassar was on the team before the fateful Nebraska game, it makes a persuasive case that we tried very hard to run him off a scholarship in an unseemly way. And some of the things are just wrong, like Kipper Nichols texting Vassar about life at NU when there weren't any open scholarships. Whatever happened before Collins tried to push him out, he deserved to be treated better. I hope he does well at his next stop.
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/53x5pq/did-northwestern-basketball-run-off-johnnie-vassar
At the time it was published, I remember thinking it was a hack job by someone who hated Collins. I don't feel that way now. While the story is light on what happened in the three months Vassar was on the team before the fateful Nebraska game, it makes a persuasive case that we tried very hard to run him off a scholarship in an unseemly way. And some of the things are just wrong, like Kipper Nichols texting Vassar about life at NU when there weren't any open scholarships. Whatever happened before Collins tried to push him out, he deserved to be treated better. I hope he does well at his next stop.
It was written by someone who hated Collins, tho, and contains allegations that you would have to suspend all sense of reason to believe....
Ah, the old ad hominem fallacy.
About the only thing in the whole story that would force me to suspend all my senses and reason is the idea that Vassar would misspell his own name.
Are you a friend of Kevin' Trahan? Only ask since he logical fallacies, as documented at the time this article was origunally discussed in the pages, are rather easy to spot.
I skimmed through the article and at some point came to the conclusion that it has whatever one is looking for. If you read it with the bias that Collins is corrupt, as a group of NU fans/followers/students persist in doing, the article is a condemnation of staff. I don't have that bias and did not see this as damning towards the staff.
The time card issue to me is the most important fact because they were almost certainly falsified. Happens every day in many workplaces, but it's important. Two possibilities, the worker had a friend(s) submit time cards or someone in athletic administration/operations did this to screw the kid. The latter is much more serious and as I wrote a couple years ago needed to be investigated. I presume it was and the results of that are not public. It's a fireable offense.
The workplace stuff and the time card issue does not touch coaching staff. He was effectively gone from the team, now in the hands of the athletic department (phillips et al). So I think condemnation of Collins for this aspect of it is just wrong.
The criticism of recruiting Kipper Nichols is wrong as well. Perhaps unpleasant, but reality in D1 basketball.
Similarly, the entirety of the criticism about how Collins coached, the words and expressions he used, is wrong. On the intensity spectrum it is not in the red zone. It's about similar to what I heard, saw observed first-hand playing organized sports.
For me, the root problem is that Collins and staff recruited a kid to play point guard who is not capable of playing point guard in the Big Ten. In doing so, they tied themselves in knots for four years.
The fact that the kid has a strong advocate in a loving mom who looked out for him.....that perhaps the cleanest program was blemished over this.....that a shifty lawyer used the young man to pursue riches while publicly shitting on NU....all pretty much pales next to this was an epic recruiting miss. All that came after is payback for not doing this part of the job correctly.
I agree with your post except for one minor quibble. With respect to the time card, there was always a third possibility that folks tended to overlook: That a supervisor filled out the names on the cards for all employees, and then placed them next to the time clock for use by the employees. It has been a long time since I "punched the clock" at a job, but I believe that is how it was done where I worked. That would provide an innocuous explanation for the misspelling. I don't know that this is what happened, but it seems safe to assume the whole issue was investigated.
Other than that, I am on board with your post.
That is absolutely correct. I never wrote my name on my time card. It was waiting for me next to the clock at the start of the work week and collected at the end.
NU guarantees athletic scholarships for four years and can't pull them if the player doesn't perform. There is a lot of evidence that they tried many different ways to push Vassar out even though he didn't want to leave. You can love Collins (as I do) and still acknowledge that we did not treat Vassar well.
Right. I appreciate @Medill90 ’s thoughts, but he misses this crucial fact.
NU made a commitment and, within months, was pressuring Vassar to do the backing out of it for them.
NU did not act with integrity in this situation. It’s not Vassar’s fault that he was offered a roster spot at a competition level (B1G) and perhaps at a position (PG/LG) for which he was not qualified.
Vassar did not use NU. He simply didn’t let himself be used.
320 and JournCat
I don't disagree one iota with the assertion that the staff wanted Vasser gone, and I agree that the four year commitment has to be honored. I do not believe that entitles the player to suit up, practice and attend games if the staff decides he's not a fit.
Both sides have constructed a narrative around Vasser issuing a "thank you...goodbye" statement. I don't know the truth, but it instills doubt in my mind.
I have posted before that NU got it right. I have posted that the chain of command is that basketball reports up to athletics and athletics reports up to the administration. While obnoxious, I don't see the coaches' behavior as unacceptable or crossing any lines. Some may honestly disagree with me on this and I accept that.
I do have questions about the athletic department, how his job was handled and specifically how he may have been denied opportunity.
I posted some time ago about a woman swimmer my family knows who attends Iowa on scholarship. She was concerned about getting injured due to the training regimen and declined parts of the training. The coach wanted her off the team. Her concern wasn't swimming, it was academics. She went to the AD who told her, "you've got nothing to worry about....you're here till you graduate even if you don't swim."
I do not have a problem with the possibility that Collins repeatedly approached the athletic department and asserted that loss of the roster spot inhibited the team and he wanted it back. IT IS THE JOB OF THE ATHLETIC DIRECTOR, ASSISTANT AD'S AND OTHER RELEVANT STAFF TO PUSH BACK AND SAY, "THIS IS THE BED YOU MADE, NOW SLEEP IN IT."
The problem was not Collins and staff, based on all that was reported. They were fine, if a bit type-A.
Of concern to me is that without a strong advocate Vasser likely would have left the university soon after his freshman year, unaware that he had other choices. This should not have floated up to administration, it should have been dealt with fairly within the athletic department.
My problem is not with coaching staff and not with NU administration. My problem is with the athletic department.
The cause of the problem, though, was epically ****** recruiting in that they gave a four year scholly to someone who fit nowhere it their scheme.
I don't disagree one iota with the assertion that the staff wanted Vasser gone, and I agree that the four year commitment has to be honored. I do not believe that entitles the player to suit up, practice and attend games if the staff decides he's not a fit.
Both sides have constructed a narrative around Vasser issuing a "thank you...goodbye" statement. I don't know the truth, but it instills doubt in my mind.
I have posted before that NU got it right. I have posted that the chain of command is that basketball reports up to athletics and athletics reports up to the administration. While obnoxious, I don't see the coaches' behavior as unacceptable or crossing any lines. Some may honestly disagree with me on this and I accept that.
I do have questions about the athletic department, how his job was handled and specifically how he may have been denied opportunity.
I posted some time ago about a woman swimmer my family knows who attends Iowa on scholarship. She was concerned about getting injured due to the training regimen and declined parts of the training. The coach wanted her off the team. Her concern wasn't swimming, it was academics. She went to the AD who told her, "you've got nothing to worry about....you're here till you graduate even if you don't swim."
I do not have a problem with the possibility that Collins repeatedly approached the athletic department and asserted that loss of the roster spot inhibited the team and he wanted it back. IT IS THE JOB OF THE ATHLETIC DIRECTOR, ASSISTANT AD'S AND OTHER RELEVANT STAFF TO PUSH BACK AND SAY, "THIS IS THE BED YOU MADE, NOW SLEEP IN IT."
The problem was not Collins and staff, based on all that was reported. They were fine, if a bit type-A.
Of concern to me is that without a strong advocate Vasser likely would have left the university soon after his freshman year, unaware that he had other choices. This should not have floated up to administration, it should have been dealt with fairly within the athletic department.
My problem is not with coaching staff and not with NU administration. My problem is with the athletic department.
The cause of the problem, though, was epically ****** recruiting in that they gave a four year scholly to someone who fit nowhere it their scheme.
Like some out here, I'm not one to cheer wildly for NU educational goals and it's overall "mission." However, I think the distinction should be made that NU as an institution DID act with integrity in this situation. Its checks and balances worked well. The school could have very easily litigated the kid to going away.
Did the athletic department act with integrity? NO WAY ... on so many levels.
But as someone said above, I have no doubt there were problems on both sides of this equation. Everybody keeps wanting to ignore how many high schools did the kid attended. That's a HUGE personality red flag.
If the kid is allowed a second year at Tenn Tech, anybody want to bet whether he makes it through two full seasons?
Johnnie Vassar talk
... we need that first summer commitment.Honoring his scholarship is what they committed to. Honoring his scholarship is not integrity — it’s literally abiding by the contract they made with him. (When the Mets pay Bobby Bonilla every July, it’s not because they’re good people. It’s because they have to.)
The lack of integrity comes in efforts to push him out. You may believe or not believe the accounts, but Vassar’s actions - that he stayed - strongly indicate that transfer talk was at the athletic department’s initiation, and not at his own.
He was a *terrible* offer. Ajou level. Soltau level. But damn those were cool dunks. You’re right - the athletic department should have told CCC to shut up and deal with it.
The lack of integrity comes in efforts to push him out. You may believe or not believe the accounts, but Vassar’s actions - that he stayed - strongly indicate that transfer talk was at the athletic department’s initiation, and not at his own.
He was a *terrible* offer. Ajou level. Soltau level. But damn those were cool dunks. You’re right - the athletic department should have told CCC to shut up and deal with it.
This has inspired me to tell my story. I came to NU on a rare swimming schollie as a diver. I had a Olympic coach leading into NU (guy who brought Bruce Kimball to his Olympic glory before the subsequent drunken downfall) and his teaching clearly was the primary reason I qualified for a B!G schollie (I also had MAC school offers and a small, partial from ND). NU had a young, new diving coach and she had some unconventional thoughts. I followed blindly for the first year and ended up hurt - back issues.
By end of season, I was not buying in any more. Not only was I not improving, but I had gone through several injuries and a few battles over the importance of academics. She convinced the swim coach that I was a slacker and then they moved to pull my ride. I met with the AD at the time, explained my side and was told a simple meeting with him and the coaches would resolve everything. Shortly before summer session, and without any such meeting, I received my notice to yank my schollie.
I appealed - and during that appeal, all three people - my coach, the swim coach and AD lied, straight up. Fortunately, I had prepared well, exhibits with med records, training room records (one thing that I successfully showed some lies, academic records and course syllabus for my classes, etc.). I won - kept my schollie and related athletic preferences, but was told that I was no longer welcome on the team.
I was quite frustrated but would not have been medically cleared for most of the next season anyway and filled the void by running a charity event through my fraternity (the only time I think NU has held a Fight Night
But the experience left a mistrust of the athletic department and why I do not donate money. I believe in the NU appeal system - I think they do it right and probably got it right in the Vassar case. I have known FB players, LAX players, soccer players at NU that had run-ins of a similar nature to mine.You can stick your head in the sand and believe NU **** don't stink - the world is full of naive people. I like the CCC hire. I consider myself a NU fan. But I tend to believe Vassar and his mom. I find the evidence of the text messages, the retention of documents, the existence of repeated phone calls, among the more persuasive. But a big part for me, the success in the NU appeal.
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What on earth has your statement have to do with the post from me that you quoted?
You called him a "terrible recruit," genius. I'll leave you to conclude where that leaves the talent evaluation acumen of this board's posters.
@cometclear I imagine it’s in long-since-departed archives, but I likely didn’t contribute to any VASSAR COMMITS thread.
I was definitely not excited about him, due to:
- Commitment in the second signing period
- lack of quality offers (that’s the barometer I most frequently rely on)
- the fact that he hadn’t really been considered a high-major prospect since his freshman year
- the four high school thing
- his size
I did enjoy the idea of a sub six footer who could dunk.
That said, I respect that he stuck it out at NU, and I hope he wins two OVC tourneys (I looked it up, but it was my first guess).
I was definitely not excited about him, due to:
- Commitment in the second signing period
- lack of quality offers (that’s the barometer I most frequently rely on)
- the fact that he hadn’t really been considered a high-major prospect since his freshman year
- the four high school thing
- his size
I did enjoy the idea of a sub six footer who could dunk.
That said, I respect that he stuck it out at NU, and I hope he wins two OVC tourneys (I looked it up, but it was my first guess).
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