When do bands peak?

[TruBluCatFan]

@cawoodsct and I were having beers a couple weeks ago and got to discussing music.

Seems like a lot of bands release their best music early in their careers and spend the rest of their careers hanging on and trying to replicate that one or two great albums they made when still trying to make it.

Some examples we came up with

GNR- Appetite for Destruction. Never came close to matching the success or musical quality of their debut album.

U2. Everything after Joshua Tree, had some great music after that but does post Joshua Tree match before? Don’t think so.

Pearl Jam. I still think 10 is their best stuff ever.

I know it’s all subjective but what does the Paddock think.

Any bands you got to add? Any disagreements with my choices?

 

[Kooky Kats]

They peak during their heroin phase.

TMFS.

 

[TruBluCatFan]

They peak during their heroin phase.

TMFS.

Definitely true with GNR. Highly recommend Slash’s autobiography if you haven’t read it.

 

[Tskware]

Springsteen is another example, peaked with Born in the USA, but last 25 years has really never come close to Born to Run, The River Darkness on the Edge of Town, etc. (with the exception of The Rising, which has some really great stuff, but that was released in 2002 or so)

Beyond that not sure you can limit this just to rock bands, lots of artists, movie directors, and famous authors did some of their most memorable work in their 20s and 30s, then never matched the artistic peak again.

P.S. I love U2, but think Achtung Baby and Rattle and Hum has some great material on it, "One" is maybe the best U2 song ever, my favorite anyway.

 

[cole854]

Talking to cawood about music was your first mistake. He can't escape (no pun intended) from his Journey fan club days. His musical depth is whatever he can find on his fav 80's station.

Most of it is genre related, imo.

GNR and other similar style bands will be limited in their capacity to write successfully for many years. They don't have the depth. However, they are still a major attraction due to their early success and focus on that. The exception is Metallica, given their longevity and matching success with their most recent releases.

U2's songwriting got better as they developed, despite not having as many "hits" commercially. Bono's style allows him to evolve.

I wouldn't say "hanging on" is fair to most....some, yes. But most of the old timers are still what people want to see/hear.

 

[KRJ1975]

When they release their best album.

 

[TruBluCatFan]

Talking to cawood about music was your first mistake. He can't escape (no pun intended) from his Journey fan club days. His musical depth is whatever he can find on his fav 80's station.

Most of it is genre related, imo.

GNR and other similar style bands will be limited in their capacity to write successfully for many years. They don't have the depth. However, they are still a major attraction due to their early success and focus on that. The exception is Metallica, given their longevity and matching success with their most recent releases.

U2's songwriting got better as they developed, despite not having as many "hits" commercially. Bono's style allows him to evolve.

I wouldn't say "hanging on" is fair to most....some, yes. But most of the old timers are still what people want to see/hear.

Well, if recall correctly, you were invited to join us for beers and blew us off.

 

[cole854]

Springsteen is another example, peaked with Born in the USA, but last 25 years has really never come close to Born to Run, The River Darkness on the Edge of Town, etc. (with the exception of The Rising, which has some really great stuff, but that was released in 2002 or so)

Magic in 2007 and Wrecking Ball in 2012 were both as good as anything he has ever done. They didn't have the commercial success w/ the airplay, but they, along with Tunnel of Love in 1987 were some of his best works. So, no...he didn't peak with BitUSA, and his songwriting on that track wasn't nearly as good as later albums. It did, however, play to what he wanted to convey at that time, which just happened to be more of a pop culture.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

@cawoodsct and I were having beers a couple weeks ago and got to discussing music.

Seems like a lot of bands release their best music early in their careers and spend the rest of their careers hanging on and trying to replicate that one or two great albums they made when still trying to make it.

Some examples we came up with

GNR- Appetite for Destruction. Never came close to matching the success or musical quality of their debut album.

U2. Everything after Joshua Tree, had some great music after that but does post Joshua Tree match before? Don’t think so.

Pearl Jam. I still think 10 is their best stuff ever.

I know it’s all subjective but what does the Paddock think.

Any bands you got to add? Any disagreements with my choices?

I think in some cases it is true that a band's early work is better than their later work, however, in many cases a band will have several strong albums before running out of good material. I think U2 is more an example of that than a band that peaks early. The Joshua Tree was their 6th album, so I don't think it qualifies as peaking early. Their early work is very good as well. Boy and War are especially good albums.

 

[Kooky Kats]

Stones
Beatles
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Billie Holliday
Jazz in general
Clapton, heroin-good booze-bad
Nirvana
Sublime

When blues gets real.

 

[DSmith21]

Most bands peak early because they can't evolve well enough. They just keep making the same sounding music which doesn't live up to the original (think Boston). Bands that do evolve like the Stones can last much longer but eventually peak but don't necessarily fall off a cliff. It's more of a slow decline. The Stones' best music was from the early 70's but "Tattoo You" was still pretty good stuff in the 80's.

 

[Ron Mehico]

Usually 2nd or 3rd album in their early or mid 20s when they’re still cool and “new” and their lives are crazy and care free and full of energy.

 

[UKGrad93]

Bands usually start off small/unknown
Then get famous/breakthrough
Later, they are has beens
Usually peak early to the middle

 

[funKYcat75]

Whenever I stop listening to them is usually when bands start a steady decline. I, and I alone, am the purveyor and standard-setter of popular music.

 

[Dore95]

Many bands peak with their first album because they literally spent years writing/honing those songs. Then, they really have a hard time following it up.

The great artists take a few years to reach their peak. Even the great bands/artists only have about a 10-15 year period of true artistic relevance. Most peaking somewhere during the middle of that period of time.

 

[Tskware]

I also loved REM, and DIre Straits, thought both of them had long and consistent careers, but knew when they had reached the point where they had said all they had to say and gracefully retired (or shook hands and went their separate ways). In fact, the original drummer for REM retired long before the rest of them, bought a farm in Georgia I think and was perfectly happy doing so. As a coda to their career, REM recorded "We All Go Back to Where We Belong", which is a really great tune

 

[KRJ1975]

Springsteen is another example, peaked with Born in the USA, but last 25 years has really never come close to Born to Run, The River Darkness on the Edge of Town, etc. (with the exception of The Rising, which has some really great stuff, but that was released in 2002 or so)

Beyond that not sure you can limit this just to rock bands, lots of artists, movie directors, and famous authors did some of their most memorable work in their 20s and 30s, then never matched the artistic peak again.

P.S. I love U2, but think Achtung Baby and Rattle and Hum has some great material on it, "One" is maybe the best U2 song ever, my favorite anyway.

Achtung Baby is fantastic, agreed.

 

[-Mav-]

Fact: Springsteen never peaked because he has eternally sucked.

 

[Kaizer Sosay]

Many bands peak with their first album because they literally spent years writing/honing those songs. Then, they really have a hard time following it up.

The great artists take a few years to reach their peak. Even the great bands/artists only have about a 10-15 year period of true artistic relevance. Most peaking somewhere during the middle of that period of time.

That ^^^^^^ pretty much sums it up...especially that first paragraph. 'Tis why so many suffer a sophomore slump on that 2nd album. Most never fully recover from it. For the ones that do recover at varying degrees...please refer to paragraph #2 above.

 

[TriangleUKCat]

Smashing Pumpkins with Siamese Dream. Definitely a case study of a band trying to evolve too quickly with follow-ups and it really just never getting back. Melloncollie still had its moments but I still go back to Siamese frequently. The older I get, the more I like it.

 

[funKYcat75]

Many bands peak with their first album because they literally spent years writing/honing those songs. Then, they really have a hard time following it up.

And record companies try to catch lightning in a bottle and rush them back in the studio too soon. Unless you’re recording bubblegum pop, it’s hard to come up with the emotions necessary for good music when you’re diving into money like Scrooge McDuck.

 

[Glenn's Take]

Fact: Springsteen never peaked because he has eternally sucked.

This is pretty much my point with Springsteen. You mention him to a non true Springsteen fan and they think the Born in the USA album. If you asked most real Springsteen fans to rank his albums and everything earlier would be better than that. Hell, Bobby Jean was the best song on it and it wasn't even released as a single. He still has some very good music on his later albums. I liked Tougher Than the Rest and Brilliant Disguise off Tunnel of Love more than anything on Born in the USA.

I saw them in Nashville the last time they played there. It was the next to last show of that tour and Clarence died a few months later so I saw one of his last performances.

 

[cawoodsct]

Smashing Pumpkins with Siamese Dream. Definitely a case study of a band trying to evolve too quickly with follow-ups and it really just never getting back. Melloncollie still had its moments but I still go back to Siamese frequently. The older I get, the more I like it.

Gish is awesome, SD is awesome, Pisces Iscariot is awesome, Mellon Collie is awesome, I think Adore is awesome but a fall off after that.

Kind of goes to the threads point. Why are so many bands early albums awesome when they probably develop more as musicians yet we like later albums less often. Of course there are exceptions but why does that seem to be the case in most bands when they continue to grow as musicians?

 

[cawoodsct]

This is pretty much my point with Springsteen. You mention him to a non true Springsteen fan and they think the Born in the USA album. If you asked most real Springsteen fans to rank his albums and everything earlier would be better than that. Hell, Bobby Jean was the best song on it and it wasn't even released as a single. He still has some very good music on his later albums. I liked Tougher Than the Rest and Brilliant Disguise off Tunnel of Love more than anything on Born in the USA.

I saw them in Nashville the last time they played there. It was the next to last show of that tour and Clarence died a few months later so I saw one of his last performances.

Glenn, you haven’t posted in this thread yet. What do you mean by “this is pretty much my point?”

Is Glenn,cole/UKO?

 

[Kaizer Sosay]

I saw them in Nashville the last time they played there. It was the next to last show of that tour and Clarence died a few months later so I saw one of his last performances.

Melancholic take, glen{N}n.

~~~ also ~~~

I would absolutely loooove to hear what @-Mav- 's take is about when The Boss peaked.

 

[Glenn's Take]

Glenn, you haven’t posted in this thread yet. What do you mean by “this is pretty much my point?”

Is Glenn,cole/UKO?

I had responded to this thread in my mind and that's all that really matters isn't it? I do think my points are valid though. Non Springsteen people think of Born in the USA and
Springsteen people don't even consider that album.

 

[dgtatu01]

I think when they have a huge hit, they keep trying to match that to make money, but the key to making money is really just putting on great shows. Anyway, some bands just keep cranking out great music. The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, then MTV came out and made people try to make hit songs, then MTV died and bands started making great songs again. The Black Keys have 7 or 8 album's and they are all good. They just released a song 2 weeks ago that rocks too. Jack White, Queens Of The Stone Age, they are all still making great music.

 

[P19978]

You have all your life to write your first album.

You have less than one year to write your second.

 

[-Mav-]

I would absolutely loooove to hear what @-Mav- 's take is about when The Boss peaked.

See post #18 for details.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Pearl Jam crushed it with Vs. They *crushed* it.

 

[MegaBlue05]

It's usually within the first four albums, probably debut album for most bands. Early-mid 20s.

I'm a GNR fanboi and thought the Illusions were just a step down from Appetite. I do see where going from It's So Easy to Estranged is quite a shift in direction.

Just to throw a few out there:

Alice In Chains peaked with Dirt. Glorious album.

Metallica peaked creatively with their first four albums and commercially with Black. Downhill from there. The new stuff isn't bad at all, but it's not 83-88.

Eminem peaked at The Eminem Show (album 3)

Red Hot Chili Peppers peaked at Blood Sugar Sex Magik despite sustained success through the 90s.

 

[WildcatFan1982]

This is pretty much my point with Springsteen. You mention him to a non true Springsteen fan and they think the Born in the USA album. If you asked most real Springsteen fans to rank his albums and everything earlier would be better than that. Hell, Bobby Jean was the best song on it and it wasn't even released as a single. He still has some very good music on his later albums. I liked Tougher Than the Rest and Brilliant Disguise off Tunnel of Love more than anything on Born in the USA.

Yeah on the tour I went to he alternating every night between "Born in the USA" and "Thunder Road". We got Thunder Road at Rupp. Walking out the arena there were people PISSED he didn't play "Born in the USA". Damn near every song on the set is better, and Thunder Road is WAYYYYYY better

 

[oldsports_]

Linkin Park peaked when Chester checked out.

 

[HymanKaplan_rivals48997]

Usually 2nd or 3rd album in their early or mid 20s when they’re still cool and “new” and their lives are crazy and care free and full of energy.

Thread

 

[TortElvisII]

Springsteen was likely the Zodiac.

 

[specialkd24_rivals116121]

As someone said above, bands spend forever writing the first album, so it is full of great material that has been worked on for years.

I also think when a band first becomes popular their fan base is a certain age (usually on the younger side - say 20-30). As the band gets older, they try new things, but that fan base wants the same type of stuff they got when they were 20. They hate any new material and only want to listen to the old stuff.

 

[dgtatu01]

As someone said above, bands spend forever writing the first album, so it is full of great material that has been worked on for years.

I also think when a band first becomes popular their fan base is a certain age (usually on the younger side - say 20-30). As the band gets older, they try new things, but that fan base wants the same type of stuff they got when they were 20. They hate any new material and only want to listen to the old stuff.

This is a big thing, the artists are probably getting better and better at playing and writing music, but we want the same thing we first loved while they, being creative types want to do new things. GnR is a good example, I was 12 when Use Your Illusion 1 & 2 came out and I loved then. Those albums led me to listen to go back and listen to Appetite For Destruction which was kind of right before I got into music. I like them all, but the artistry is quite high on Use Your Illusion whereas Appetite For Destruction is very much an album full of songs to play live. That's what they were known for so it makes sense.

 

[BlueVelvetFog]

When I say they do.

 

[chroix]

Young and poor gives you a lot more interesting material than old and rich.

 

[BlueVelvetFog]

Right before the bass player or drummer writes a song .