Which player do you think improved the most over their time at Duke?
- Thread starter BlueDevilStop
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I'm gonna say Battier. I know he was high school player of the year (hardly the consensus though Brand and even Burgess were ranked higher by some) but he improved a LOT. He couldn't shoot much his first 2 years. I'd probably take senior Battier over anyone at Duke ever. By his senior year he was like the perfect college player. My favorite Duke player ever.
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-Justin Robinson was a real player by the time he was a SR.
-Quinn Cook made a MASSIVE leap from his JR to SR year.
-Brian Zoubek could really be the answer. Pretty worthless until he became a key guy on the 2010 title team.
-Mason Plumlee was an absolute stud his SR year.
-JJ Redick was always good but his SR year he became a legend.
-Nate James got better every single year.
I'd probably go with Zoubek.
-Quinn Cook made a MASSIVE leap from his JR to SR year.
-Brian Zoubek could really be the answer. Pretty worthless until he became a key guy on the 2010 title team.
-Mason Plumlee was an absolute stud his SR year.
-JJ Redick was always good but his SR year he became a legend.
-Nate James got better every single year.
I'd probably go with Zoubek.
Zoubek is a good choice. I thought Zoubek played really good his junior year in spurts. He would play great his first 2 to 3 minutes and then start fouling and disappear because he was tired. He was finally well conditioned his senior year and could do it for a whole game. It was painful watching him try to make low post moves his first few years. He worked hard and became a great college player. That guy was HUGE.
Zoubek dealt with injuries majority of his DUke career. Thank god he finally came through!
Chris Duhon and Nolan Smith both come to mind. I'm gonna add Marshall Plumlee just because I love him so much. 1,000 % career 3 point shooter also. OFC
1- Can’t disagree with Battier, my personal favorite, the GOAT, and one who changed his role from hustler, to defender, to best all around player, without losing any of the hustle or defense. AMAZING!
2- I like Zoubek and Lance Thomas as guys who realized their potential in a perfect role. But they never became the start. But one from that team that did was Scheyer. He was sub-par defender most of his career, but that 2010 team was HIS team. They played his style, his tempo, and his mentality. He goes from being a good shooter, to a true Duke leader/captain. Not at the level of Battier, but the same growth from role player to leader to heart and soul.
2- I like Zoubek and Lance Thomas as guys who realized their potential in a perfect role. But they never became the start. But one from that team that did was Scheyer. He was sub-par defender most of his career, but that 2010 team was HIS team. They played his style, his tempo, and his mentality. He goes from being a good shooter, to a true Duke leader/captain. Not at the level of Battier, but the same growth from role player to leader to heart and soul.
One guy who comes to mind is Jim Spanarkel, who came to Duke as a rather soft and unathletic player who was not highly recruited (by his own admission). I remember seeing him as a freshman and not being impressed. He transformed himself as an athlete, developed guard skills and made himself a first round pick.
Also Quinn Cook was a good point guard when he got to Duke but became a great shooter.
Justin Robinson was on his way to becoming a legend when the virus ended the season.
Melchionni was another guy who made himself a D I player while he was at Duke.
I'm sorry, but I can't go with Zoubek. He came to Duke highly rated. He did make himself stronger, but even his senior year he was a 20 minutes a game guy who fouled too much. He did learn to catch the ball though which for a guy that size is half the battle.
Also Quinn Cook was a good point guard when he got to Duke but became a great shooter.
Justin Robinson was on his way to becoming a legend when the virus ended the season.
Melchionni was another guy who made himself a D I player while he was at Duke.
I'm sorry, but I can't go with Zoubek. He came to Duke highly rated. He did make himself stronger, but even his senior year he was a 20 minutes a game guy who fouled too much. He did learn to catch the ball though which for a guy that size is half the battle.
From first time on campus until they left....tough question. I do like Mason Plumlee and Nolan Smith. Then I’d go guys like Carrawell, JJ, and Amile.
Chris Carrawell ! A turnover waiting to happen as a freshman. Took awkward and questionable shots as a young player. Became a solid defender and rebounder with his long arms. As a senior he really put Duke on his back. Came up huge in big games (@ UNC). He was the guy the team sort of depended on to make a play or get a basket. It was fun to see "C-Well" develop over his time at Duke. A healthy 2000 Duke team beats Florida!!!
Marshall Plumlee needs to be mentioned in this thread.. he was averaging 30 minutes per game his senior year, as a 7 footer.. not to mention, he is the best percentage 3pt shooter in college basketball history.
Those were actually the first 2 that came to mind for me. I think Goldwire will be up there too when all is said and done.
I would also throw out Shelden.
As a curveball, I'll put up Justise. He was a much better player at the end of his one year.
Good call on Goldwire. Hard to argue that. I don’t really agree on Justise. He started out hot as fire, had a slump in the middle of the season and then picked it back up. Although that is a curve!
Quin Cook is up there. Zoubs happened to be an integral part of a championship team so that helps his argument (and you can't understate his impact on the 2010 team, not to mention his free throws in the championship game). And frankly, Carlos Boozer went from a butter fingered player to a someone who did not drop the rock every time he touched it in 2001 so he is on my list too. His freshmen year, he would be posted up down low and when they would throw him the ball, he would bat at it with hard hands rather than soft hands. He improved a lot too. I am a few deep in Tito's and lemonade so forgive my terrible grammar tonight.
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Tate did up his game. One of the best llllooooonnnnnggg range shooters Duke ever . I wish some of our younger posters here would have had the chance to see a few of the pre Coach K stars play. OFC
Nolan Smith is a great choice - went from averaging 5.9 ppg in around 15 mpg a game as a freshmannto averaging 20.6 ppg and being ACC POY as a senior.
I’m going to throw Christian Laettner into the mix. Solid role player as a freshman, averaging 8.9 ppg in around 17 mpg, and we all know what he became. Even if he was more of an earlier contributor than a lot of the guys mentioned, he wasn’t immediately a superstar, and he ended up as one of the greatest college basketball players of all time. I’d consider that improvement.
Another guy I’ll mention is the guy Danny Ferry. Went from adding 5.9 ppg as a freshman to averaging 22.6 ppg and winning the Naismith award as a senior. Similar career arc to Laettner, and the guy Laettner had to wait his turn behind.
Final guy I’ll add to the discussion is Phil Henderson. Averaged 7.3 ppg and 5.9 ppg his freshman and sophomore years, and I remember him being an absolute beast as a senior. With all the great players who have come after him, it’s easy to forget how good he was.
This is a really fun topic, but it makes me miss the days when guys actually stuck around long enough to improve.
I’m going to throw Christian Laettner into the mix. Solid role player as a freshman, averaging 8.9 ppg in around 17 mpg, and we all know what he became. Even if he was more of an earlier contributor than a lot of the guys mentioned, he wasn’t immediately a superstar, and he ended up as one of the greatest college basketball players of all time. I’d consider that improvement.
Another guy I’ll mention is the guy Danny Ferry. Went from adding 5.9 ppg as a freshman to averaging 22.6 ppg and winning the Naismith award as a senior. Similar career arc to Laettner, and the guy Laettner had to wait his turn behind.
Final guy I’ll add to the discussion is Phil Henderson. Averaged 7.3 ppg and 5.9 ppg his freshman and sophomore years, and I remember him being an absolute beast as a senior. With all the great players who have come after him, it’s easy to forget how good he was.
This is a really fun topic, but it makes me miss the days when guys actually stuck around long enough to improve.
Another dark horse because he was OAD was Tatum. Thought he improved a lot as the season went along.
Interesting. I see the point.
I felt that at the beginning he was a pure athlete who got a little to Jumper-happy. I felt at the endbof the year he had developed into a defensive stopper that was much more deferential on offense. But I'm probably not remembering the start of the season well enough.
im hoping we have this same convo next year and Matthew hurt wendell Moore and joey baker are on the list
Brien Davis. Remember seeing him once fresh and soph years (at end of blowout finals loss in 90). Junior, Sr years was vital part of back to back champs.
Jack White improved a lot, although he kind of regressed after that. Still, he was a rotation guy for 2 years.
Ryan Kelly is a good pick. His freshman year he was a little-used 6 minute, 1 point a game guy on a National Championship team. He improved steadily and by his senior year he was a 13 point a game guy on one of the best teams in the country, and probably would have been second or third team All-ACC if not for a foot injury. He spent four years or so in the NBA.
Casey Sanders and Lee Melchionni are two guys that come to mind simply because we got the absolute most out of their talents
Some great answers. Off the top of my head... Quinn, Zoubs, Mason... all three guys really improved.
Good call on Boozer. One thing I remember about his last 2 years is it seems he always scored when he got it down low and always secured rebounds. He was so strong with the ball.
Here are a some more that came to mind:
Grayson Allen - started his freshman year seldom used and the forgotten man in the recruiting class, goes bonkers against Wake late in the season, and then singlehandedly brings us back to life in the title game and becomes a legend. Maybe the biggest statistical jump from one year to the next - 4.4 ppg as a FR to 21.6 ppg as a SO. No way he could keep up that rate of improvement (he would have averaged over 400 ppg as a SR!). Never got back to his SO year level, with all the talent around him and the on court issues, so he probably suffers a bit on this list.
Luke Kennard - doubled his scoring from FR to SO year, and did it on a team with Grayson Allen (Luke sort of took the leap I thought Grayson would take that year), Jayson Tatum, Anile Jefferson, and Frank Jackson.
Amile Jefferson - steady improvement over a 5-year career. Reserve role as a FR, key player on a national championship team as a JR, and then the primary low post guy his SR seasons.
Alaa Abdelnaby - similar to Zoubek and Marshall Plumlee, took a huge leap his senior year. Like his teammate Phil Henderson, another guy who doesn’t get talked about much. Could be psychological damage from the title game loss to UNLV.
Grayson Allen - started his freshman year seldom used and the forgotten man in the recruiting class, goes bonkers against Wake late in the season, and then singlehandedly brings us back to life in the title game and becomes a legend. Maybe the biggest statistical jump from one year to the next - 4.4 ppg as a FR to 21.6 ppg as a SO. No way he could keep up that rate of improvement (he would have averaged over 400 ppg as a SR!). Never got back to his SO year level, with all the talent around him and the on court issues, so he probably suffers a bit on this list.
Luke Kennard - doubled his scoring from FR to SO year, and did it on a team with Grayson Allen (Luke sort of took the leap I thought Grayson would take that year), Jayson Tatum, Anile Jefferson, and Frank Jackson.
Amile Jefferson - steady improvement over a 5-year career. Reserve role as a FR, key player on a national championship team as a JR, and then the primary low post guy his SR seasons.
Alaa Abdelnaby - similar to Zoubek and Marshall Plumlee, took a huge leap his senior year. Like his teammate Phil Henderson, another guy who doesn’t get talked about much. Could be psychological damage from the title game loss to UNLV.
I thought about Luke as well and decided against mentioning him. I thought while he improved, he was just more consistent. He was so boom or bust his freshman year. His soph he was just all boom.
Jon Smith right up there with Abdenaby. Add Kevin Strickland and someone already mentioned, Phil wicked dunk over Mourning Hendeson. Lot of guys during that period.
I'm going to research abdelnaby's stats. Good to see his name in print. My boss in 1990 was a Duke fan. He was a buffoon. He often complained about Allen Abernathy. He meant Alaa Abdelnaby. There was a game in which Abdelnaby only had one rebound. My boss said that he had only one more rebound than a dead man and claimed it as his original thought. I read the same line in a Sports Illustrated story three days later
Abdelnaby had 114 points and 52 rebounds in the 1990 NCAA tournament as a senior versus averaging only 6 minutes as a freshman.
For a lot of guys, I think a big part of the improvement was waiting their turn and getting an opportunity. Of course, they needed to put in the work and make the most of it. I remember Laettner saying he loved that you had to work your way up the system at Duke and nothing was handed to you, which is why he was so pissed when Coach K handed the keys to Bobby on day one.
A few people mentioned Boozer and Sanders, but the guy I’d go with from that recruiting class is Dunleavy. Pretty good as a FR, one of the heroes of the national championship game as a SO, and so good as a JR he had to go pro. I remember being shocked with the leap he took his JR year, even playing alongside Jason Williams, who was all-world. Might have been NPOY has he stayed for his SR season.
Shelden Williams was another guy who worked his way up the system. From my recollection, did not come in as polished offensively as Brand and Boozer before him. He and Shav had similar numbers their FR seasons. Shav battled injuries for the rest of his career and Shelden took the leap and ended up with his number in the rafters. Really improved as a low-post scorer, even in a JJ-centric offense, and we all know what he became on defense (the Landlord!).
Cherokee Parks - 5.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg, and Laettner’s whipping boy as a FR, to 19.0 ppg, 9.3 rpg, and a lottery pick as a SR. Another guy who doesn’t get mentioned a lot, since he followed the GOAT and was the main guy on the ill-fated 1994-95 team.
Several already mentioned that I would have said do I’ll go off the board and say Kevin Strickland.