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Why have baseball in Cincy

crashtestdummy_rivals61973

crashtestdummy_rivals61973

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Mar 27, 2009
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used to be a great baseball town and fans. I understand the small market excuse, but really. why can't the reds be competitive. last year fans were given hope. looks like back to the same. finding it hard to appreciate the organization, when the organization will not appreciate the fans.
 
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J_Dee

All-Conference
Mar 21, 2008
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Although I haven't played close attention to current baseball since the late '90s, I grew up watching the Reds and I read and watch a lot about baseball history. The 1990 season's my favorite pro sports memory (I was in middle school in '90 and practically horded Reds baseball cards) and I really, really, reeeeally wish that Cincy would return to that level of greatness.

Also, I miss Riverfront. :(

 
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UKwizard

UKwizard

Heisman
Dec 11, 2002
21,077
13,444
113
Riverfront was an eyesore that housed the peak of the Reds glory and all of the Bengals glory so I get why some miss it but man.
 
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vhcat70

Heisman
Feb 5, 2003
57,418
38,482
0
crashtestdummy said:
used to be a great baseball town and fans. I understand the small market excuse, but really. why can't the reds be competitive. last year fans were given hope. looks like back to the same. finding it hard to appreciate the organization, when the organization will not appreciate the fans.
Click to expand...
Reminds me of UK hoops these days.
 
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crashtestdummy_rivals61973

crashtestdummy_rivals61973

All-Conference
Mar 27, 2009
3,628
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can't say I miss Riverfront. the newer stadium is pretty nice. been a fan since I was a kid. (late 70's) I used to drive 3 1/2 hours 10 times a year for games in Cincy. have not seen a game there in 3-4 years now.
say what you will about Marge Schott. the woman put some talented teams on the field.
 
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B

Boogie Fan

Junior
Jun 6, 2010
653
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Joey Rupption said:
GABP is essentially a huge, family friendly, seasonal gastropub that happens to have a professional baseball game occurring inside.
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100% true perfect description of it, live about 15 minutes from the park, go to a couple of games a year and barely watch the game. Just find one of the bars and hang with my friends.
 
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joeyrupption

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Jun 5, 2007
8,686
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catfanbrad said:
100% true perfect description of it, live about 15 minutes from the park, go to a couple of games a year and barely watch the game. Just find one of the bars and hang with my friends.
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I worked as a “Sport” architect for a few years and touched some MLB stadiums, CBB and hockey arenas.

It always comes down to the logistics of “pumpin’ beer!”
 
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blubo

blubo

Heisman
Oct 14, 2014
22,205
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Too expensive for average joe. back in the 70s i would go to 2-3 games a week sometimes as a working newlywed dad and it was still affordable. nowadays it’s so expensive i could maybe afford once a week, if i was interested.
 
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JamesIII

JamesIII

All-Conference
Oct 21, 2003
3,323
3,391
62
Cincinnati was way too slow in finally implementing analytics into their organization from top to bottom and their "rebuild" from 2012 onward has been very disappointing. If the Reds want to contend, they need to follow the recipe that the A's and Rays have. I believe for who they got for Cueto, Frazier, and Chapman only 1 prospect remains in the organization.
 
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drew_ukfan_rivals

Heisman
Aug 6, 2008
16,458
33,986
0
crashtestdummy said:
sometimes it appears to be, with all the ex- reds talent that that Cincy develops, then moves across the infield to the visitors dugout!
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Who are you referring to here?
Chapman, Gregorius, Grandal? Maybe some minor leaguers like Downs or Josiah Gray but let’s see how they turn out first. There’s really not that many ex-Reds killing it in the mlb right now. Especially those that they developed

Far less than most teams. Truth is, Reds bigger issue is developing talent, not retaining it
 
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Burly

All-American
Sep 3, 2002
16,854
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If Ray’s or Athletics can win no reason Reds cannot - just got to get right GM & Manager
 
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Jeff Drummond

Jeff Drummond

Hall of Famer
Staff member
Nov 25, 2002
86,467
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Analytics aren't the answer IMO. I don't totally dismiss them, but the Reds need a GM and manager that not only embrace data but also understand how to manage and motivate people. Dusty Baker had the second part of that equation down; the first part, not so much.
 
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*CatinIL*

Heisman
Jan 2, 2003
24,647
40,224
0
I pity you Reds fans. I bailed on them November 1978...and yet you continue to plow along. Bless your hearts.
 
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A

anon_q409idbs5m40a

Guest
Jeff Drummond said:
Analytics aren't the answer IMO. I don't totally dismiss them, but the Reds need a GM and manager that not only embrace data but also understand how to manage and motivate people. Dusty Baker had the second part of that equation down; the first part, not so much.
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The Reds have a history of being the last to do anything right in the front office. I remember when the Crosleys owned the team until the early '60's and all they cared about was selling a player once his stock was high. Probably the most frugal organization overall in the history of baseball. They had a decent hitting team in the late '60's but pitching was suspect. After they got Sparky Anderson quite a few changes were made which resulted in the consecutive World Series Championships.
 
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blubo

blubo

Heisman
Oct 14, 2014
22,205
84,660
78
drew_ukfan said:
Who are you referring to here?
Chapman, Gregorius, Grandal? Maybe some minor leaguers like Downs or Josiah Gray but let’s see how they turn out first. There’s really not that many ex-Reds killing it in the mlb right now. Especially those that they developed

Far less than most teams. Truth is, Reds bigger issue is developing talent, not retaining it
Click to expand...
They had a great farm system back in the 60s/70s, even 50s—why they had such good teams—usually contenders.
 
crashtestdummy_rivals61973

crashtestdummy_rivals61973

All-Conference
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Sucks the fans/taxpayers paid for GABP. and are rewarded with poor results year after year. yup, it's a cool place to have some drinks. what they charge for those drinks they should be able to resign a decent player or two. at they very least a free lap dance!
 
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ukalum01

ukalum01

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Apr 29, 2002
18,066
3,227
93
Huge Reds fan... but GABP is the worst of the "new" stadiums I've been to. It somehow managed to keep all of the soullessness of Riverfront without retaining any of the charm. Should've been a 28-32k intimate park on the river... instead there are 42k+ seats and, even with the benefit of modern architecture, a lot of them are bad.
 
crashtestdummy_rivals61973

crashtestdummy_rivals61973

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drew_ukfan said:
So are most teams. We got rid of an overpaid closer (save is the stupidest stat in baseball) and The rumors of trading Gray, Castillo, Suarez haven’t materialized

Writers trying to make headlines
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the reds dump payroll every year except for last years partial season!
 
J

jameslee32

Heisman
Mar 26, 2009
33,643
22,325
0
ukalum01 said:
Huge Reds fan... but GABP is the worst of the "new" stadiums I've been to. It somehow managed to keep all of the soullessness of Riverfront without retaining any of the charm. Should've been a 28-32k intimate park on the river... instead there are 42k+ seats and, even with the benefit of modern architecture, a lot of them are bad.
Click to expand...
 
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drew_ukfan_rivals

Heisman
Aug 6, 2008
16,458
33,986
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crashtestdummy said:
the reds dump payroll every year except for last years partial season!
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Simply isn’t true, something people who don’t follow closely enough or know enough say about the Reds.

Let me ask you this, when’s the last time they traded their best player to shed payroll? Or when’s the last time they traded key players when their window for winning was open?

Cueto, Chapman, Frazier, Bruce, Leake, etc needed to be dealt. They blew their opportunity in 2012 and tried to hang on a bit longer but it was time to rebuild especially after 2014.

They did a good job on most of the trades (Chapman was a disaster)

Leake for Duvall - positive
Chapman for Rookie Davis, Tony Renda, etc - failure
Frazier for Peraza, Schebler - decent
Latos for Disco - positive
Big Pasta for Suarez - positive
Bruce for Herrera - not good

Just off the top of my head.
 
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crashtestdummy_rivals61973

crashtestdummy_rivals61973

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drew_ukfan said:
Simply isn’t true, something people who don’t follow closely enough or know enough say about the Reds.

Let me ask you this, when’s the last time they traded their best player to shed payroll? Or when’s the last time they traded key players when their window for winning was open?

Cueto, Chapman, Frazier, Bruce, Leake, etc needed to be dealt. They blew their opportunity in 2012 and tried to hang on a bit longer but it was time to rebuild especially after 2014.

They did a good job on most of the trades (Chapman was a disaster)

Leake for Duvall - positive
Chapman for Rookie Davis, Tony Renda, etc - failure
Frazier for Peraza, Schebler - decent
Latos for Disco - positive
Big Pasta for Suarez - positive
Bruce for Herrera - not good

Just off the top of my head.
Click to expand...
lets just say for the sake of argument that you are correct (because your answer is an opinion)
did they not dump payroll in those trades, which was my point.
let me ask you this, where have the trades gotten Cincy? answer 8 winning seasons in the last 30 .years. how can you defend that? why would you even try?
 
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drew_ukfan_rivals

Heisman
Aug 6, 2008
16,458
33,986
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crashtestdummy said:
lets just say for the sake of argument that you are correct (because your answer is an opinion)
did they not dump payroll in those trades, which was my point.
let me ask you this, where have the trades gotten Cincy? answer 8 winning seasons in the last 30 .years. how can you defend that? why would you even try?
Click to expand...

Sure they dumped payroll but as I said, not during their window of contention. The 2010-2013 teams had their chance and blew it (especially 2012) so after that, it was fine to dump payroll and try to get some prospects.

Imo the main problem the Reds have had since 2000 (when I started watching) is they have never had a clear direction in the organization. They should’ve went all in and got a better Left fielder in 2012 instead of sending Ryan Ludwick out, that’s all that team needed imo but the reds screwed it up. Then when they went into rebuild mode, which was the right call, they still gave stupid contracts to Homer Bailey and Brandon Phillips. They should’ve burnt it all to the ground and started from scratch, exactly like the Astros (but don’t cheat) They always have one foot wanting to compete and the other wanting to rebuild and save prospects. They need a clear direction. Ownership and front office sucks but I still think they do try to retain their talent during their primes, they just don’t develop tons of talent to retain
 
crashtestdummy_rivals61973

crashtestdummy_rivals61973

All-Conference
Mar 27, 2009
3,628
3,829
113
Leake for Duvall - positive
Chapman for Rookie Davis, Tony Renda, etc - failure
Frazier for Peraza, Schebler - decent
Latos for Disco - positive
Big Pasta for Suarez - positive
Bruce for Herrera - not good

look at your own examples of trades. proven major league talent for potential...payroll dumped. that's all I have been saying. money was saved in those trades. (excluding last year) when have they went out and spent money on real free agent talent?
my point is the reds front office have made a poor attempt at fielding a winner through the years.
not to be an *******, but I still can't see the point you are trying to get across.
 
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