Wisconsin

BadgerInSpartyland

Sophomore
Mar 15, 2004
189
157
0
As stated in another thread, I come in peace. By the time tomorrow night rolls around, the #13 next to the Wisconsin might turn into something in the top 10, which is unbelievable stuff for fans of a team that was picked to finish 10th in the B1G before the season. However, I am a big aficionado of the advanced analytics, which has this game as a virtual toss-up - the human rankings are subjective, and we both know that NU is a capable team.

Any conversation about the Badgers has to start with Johnny Davis. He was just sorta ok last year as a frosh coming off the bench of a senior-laden team. We knew his role would expand because the team had to replace so many players, but NO ONE was predicting what has happened. He did make the U19 Team USA last summer that won a gold medal - he was not really the star on that team, but he played a lot, and, in retrospect, it gave him a real confidence boost. So, he's really good now. He is showing up in the mock NBA draft lotteries, so this will likely be his last year. That being said, he is not perfect - he takes a lot of the team's shots, and isn't always particularly efficient.

Reflecting that, as a team, Wisconsin is actually pretty bad at shooting, particularly from behind the arc. The Badgers aren't anything special at rebounding either. Like NU, though, they are very good at not turning the ball over (UW is #1 and NU is #4 in all of college basketball). UW is above average at holding teams below their own shooting averages, which is how they've been able to eke out a lot of games. There's a stat on t-rank called F.U.N. (fortune unexplained by numbers), and UW is ranked #1 on that - i.e., the luckiest damn team in the country. In terms of results, the two losses were at home to Providence when Johnny Davis didn't play, and @ OSU when literally the whole team had the flu. COVID hit after that, and the Badgers had a game cancelled and then struggled mightily with the likes of Nicholls St. and Illinois St. Everyone was expecting a blowout loss at Mackey in the next game, and well, it wasn't. Things are usually dicey in every game we play, but they've found a way.

As to other players, you probably know (and have strong feelings about) Brad Davison. With all the youth and new players, he's been invaluable as the proverbial coach on the floor - perhaps not so proverbial as that is his stated chosen professional aspiration. And, he's scoring at a pretty good clip, too. The next guy to talk about is F Tyler Wahl, who is really coming on with his scoring the last few games. With all the attention on Davis, he's had some openings to take it strong to the rim. Davis, Davison, and Wahl are really the big 3, and the 3 returning contributors from last year.

Chucky Hepburn is a true frosh PG and has been super steady. His stats won't wow you, but he makes few mistakes. He will need to up his offense when Davis departs, but he plays a significant role very well right now. The last starter is C Steven Crowl. He is a bit up and down with his production inside, but can hit an occasional 3. He splits time with a transfer from Cincy named Chris Vogt. Vogt is more of an inside only guy, and allows us to have 5 more fouls to give against the Purdues and Illinoises of this league. Those 6 play most of the minutes.

In the end, I think this will be about whether Wisconsin can make shots or get to the line. There's also this mental hurdle of being the hunted rather than the hunter that they haven't really had to deal with - the expectations for this season were so low, and that has changed dramatically.
 

PURPLECAT88

Senior
Feb 4, 2003
7,681
737
113
No need to harp on how much I hate Brad Davison, except to point out that my Michigan-fan wife and Iowa-fan daughter really hate him too, so he's an equal-opportunity pain-in-the-***, but I do wonder, after he's used up the 40 years of eligibility that every Wisconsin player seems to have, will he go into coaching or straight onto Social Security?
 

hoosboot

All-American
Nov 7, 2001
26,893
6,534
0
No need to harp on how much I hate Brad Davison, except to point out that my Michigan-fan wife and Iowa-fan daughter really hate him too, so he's an equal-opportunity pain-in-the-***, but I do wonder, after he's used up the 40 years of eligibility that every Wisconsin player seems to have, will he go into coaching or straight onto Social Security?
You couldn't pay the dude a bigger compliment. If I'm a player, I would be absolutely thrilled to see a post like this from opposing fans. NU needs more players that elicit this kind of reaction from opposing fans.
 

freewillie07

Sophomore
Aug 22, 2017
5,240
100
48
You couldn't pay the dude a bigger compliment. If I'm a player, I would be absolutely thrilled to see a post like this from opposing fans. NU needs more players that elicit this kind of reaction from opposing fans.

I think Audige has the potential to be that guy. He just needs to play a bit more in control on offense. He’s a strong defender and can kind of be an ***hole who gets in the other team’s head.
 

NUCat320

Senior
Dec 4, 2005
19,469
495
0
Thanks for the update. I watched Wisconsin-Marquette for about a half in December, and wrote here that they look like a Wisconsin team doing Wisconsin things and how frustrating it is that, no matter who is on that roster, they’re always well coached and play their system and just do the right thing.

It’s ancient history at this point, but John Shurna made the same exact fresh-to-soph leap, I believe due largely to bid participation in the U19 national team. He went from looking a bit confused as a low-minute starter to absolutely carrying that NU team when Coble was unexpectedly gone.

Stranger things have happened, but wins over Wisconsin surprise me more than wins over other B1G teams, because the game you play is simply a low-mistake game.
I think we’ll see <20 turnovers, and I think Audige will give Davis all he can handle defensively (that is, Davis will have a tough time getting 18 points.)
 
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GatoLouco

Sophomore
Nov 13, 2019
5,636
116
63
Thanks for posting. Great insights. It's always hard to have a strong opinion on teams other than ours. Don't watch them enough. I can have thoughts on Davidson as he's been around since people did not have a cell in high school, or Davis because he's been so incredibly good. But beyond that, it's great to read from someone paying close attention.

In any case, watched a few WI games. I honestly think, overall, at this time, NU has more individual talent. Not necessarily potential. Kind of why I don't find it surprising WI having games against IL State or Nichols where they struggle. Yet, WI is thriving and we are in a limbo. I sense there are two reasons for that:
1) Style of play - WI plays to its strengths
2) Ability to make good decisions - The little things, the defensive positioning on the help side, the avoidance of ill advised shots, not rushing shots, etc
 

BadgerInSpartyland

Sophomore
Mar 15, 2004
189
157
0
1) Style of play - WI plays to its strengths
I meant to mention something about this - Wisconsin is currently #271 in tempo. For us long time fans, that's like lightning speed compared to our normal spot somewhere in the #330s.

Also btw, the rankings came out and they're now #8. I think that's far too high, but their resume in terms of quad 1 wins does support that (even though the actual analytics metrics would not).
 

PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
Holy Cow. Purdue played at Illinois today in a MLK Day matinee.
It looks from the box score like Cockburn got dominated by Edey.

Purdue wins in 2OT.
 

Styre

Senior
Oct 14, 2004
7,732
403
83
I meant to mention something about this - Wisconsin is currently #271 in tempo. For us long time fans, that's like lightning speed compared to our normal spot somewhere in the #330s.

Also btw, the rankings came out and they're now #8. I think that's far too high, but their resume in terms of quad 1 wins does support that (even though the actual analytics metrics would not).

Yeah. Kenpom has UW down at #27, but they're #18 in the NET rankings, which is thanks in large part to their 5-1 record in Quad 1 games. In any case, they're the highest-ranked team NU has faced this year, based on results to this point... at least until we face Purdue on Sunday.
 

combes

Heisman
Jul 10, 2001
36,256
10,766
66
Holy Cow. Purdue played at Illinois today in a MLK Day matinee.
It looks from the box score like Cockburn got dominated by Edey.

Purdue wins in 2OT.
He got in foul trouble. Edey was better today. Another meeting in the future.

Great to have Curbelo back. 20 points in 26 minutes. Another ballhandler was needed.

Purdue is really good. All credit to them.
 

hdhntr1

All-Conference
Sep 5, 2006
37,270
1,090
113
As stated in another thread, I come in peace. By the time tomorrow night rolls around, the #13 next to the Wisconsin might turn into something in the top 10, which is unbelievable stuff for fans of a team that was picked to finish 10th in the B1G before the season. However, I am a big aficionado of the advanced analytics, which has this game as a virtual toss-up - the human rankings are subjective, and we both know that NU is a capable team.

Any conversation about the Badgers has to start with Johnny Davis. He was just sorta ok last year as a frosh coming off the bench of a senior-laden team. We knew his role would expand because the team had to replace so many players, but NO ONE was predicting what has happened. He did make the U19 Team USA last summer that won a gold medal - he was not really the star on that team, but he played a lot, and, in retrospect, it gave him a real confidence boost. So, he's really good now. He is showing up in the mock NBA draft lotteries, so this will likely be his last year. That being said, he is not perfect - he takes a lot of the team's shots, and isn't always particularly efficient.

Reflecting that, as a team, Wisconsin is actually pretty bad at shooting, particularly from behind the arc. The Badgers aren't anything special at rebounding either. Like NU, though, they are very good at not turning the ball over (UW is #1 and NU is #4 in all of college basketball). UW is above average at holding teams below their own shooting averages, which is how they've been able to eke out a lot of games. There's a stat on t-rank called F.U.N. (fortune unexplained by numbers), and UW is ranked #1 on that - i.e., the luckiest damn team in the country. In terms of results, the two losses were at home to Providence when Johnny Davis didn't play, and @ OSU when literally the whole team had the flu. COVID hit after that, and the Badgers had a game cancelled and then struggled mightily with the likes of Nicholls St. and Illinois St. Everyone was expecting a blowout loss at Mackey in the next game, and well, it wasn't. Things are usually dicey in every game we play, but they've found a way.

As to other players, you probably know (and have strong feelings about) Brad Davison. With all the youth and new players, he's been invaluable as the proverbial coach on the floor - perhaps not so proverbial as that is his stated chosen professional aspiration. And, he's scoring at a pretty good clip, too. The next guy to talk about is F Tyler Wahl, who is really coming on with his scoring the last few games. With all the attention on Davis, he's had some openings to take it strong to the rim. Davis, Davison, and Wahl are really the big 3, and the 3 returning contributors from last year.

Chucky Hepburn is a true frosh PG and has been super steady. His stats won't wow you, but he makes few mistakes. He will need to up his offense when Davis departs, but he plays a significant role very well right now. The last starter is C Steven Crowl. He is a bit up and down with his production inside, but can hit an occasional 3. He splits time with a transfer from Cincy named Chris Vogt. Vogt is more of an inside only guy, and allows us to have 5 more fouls to give against the Purdues and Illinoises of this league. Those 6 play most of the minutes.

In the end, I think this will be about whether Wisconsin can make shots or get to the line. There's also this mental hurdle of being the hunted rather than the hunter that they haven't really had to deal with - the expectations for this season were so low, and that has changed dramatically.
Hey, two top 10 victories in one week would be sweet
 

AdamOnFirst

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
9,708
1,349
113
As stated in another thread, I come in peace. By the time tomorrow night rolls around, the #13 next to the
Bo Ryan: you miss him, or you incredibly miss him? Seems like you haven't been able to replicate his outrageous success, which perhaps should be no surprise.

Edit: I looked this up, and this perception was only right inasmuch as Gard has managed to miss the NCAA tourney once in 6 years and finish outside the top 4 in the Big Ten twice. I'd hate Wisconsin so much if I didn't really kinda like Wisconsin and Badger fans (for reasons that include the attitude demonstrated by OP, which I find to be common in Badger land). Carry on.
 
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PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
He got in foul trouble. Edey was better today. Another meeting in the future.

Great to have Curbelo back. 20 points in 26 minutes. Another ballhandler was needed.

Purdue is really good. All credit to them.
Well, with Cockburn on the bench for half of the game, it actually bodes well for the Illini (unless it happens again). Thanks for the update / clarification.