Women wrestling (high school)

Viennacock

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This is not a political thread...

I attended a SC high school playoff match this week. One of the matches was a male vs a female. The male destroyed the female. It was very hard to watch from a morality standpoint. This was AAAAA so it was big boy wrestling.

After watching, I understand why some boys are forfeiting matches to females. They are being put in a no-win situation.

Thoughts?
 

I4CtheFuture

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This is not a political thread...

I attended a SC high school playoff match this week. One of the matches was a male vs a female. The male destroyed the female. It was very hard to watch from a morality standpoint. This was AAAAA so it was big boy wrestling.

After watching, I understand why some boys are forfeiting matches to females. They are being put in a no-win situation.

Thoughts?
Alright, I'll bite, and keep politics out of it.

You are correct. It's not a political thread. It's an "avoidance of reality" topic. It has long been known and even scientifically proven and documented that men, boys, are simply biologically stronger, and bigger from a muscular standpoint. Broad strokes here. Of course there will be exceptions but they are generally few. It has nothing to do with mentality, sexism, ego, pride, etc.... It's simply a matter of force and physics.

If you put a bulldozer up against a match house - the bulldozer is going to win. Force / Physics.
You know how they have bullfrog races? It would be like inserting a Cheetah into that race and honestly expecting the bullfrog to have 1/2 a chance. You also know in sports how it's generally considered "bad form" to not give it your absolute best because anything less would be disrespectful to your opponent???? I believe that's where the forfeiting comes into play. The ones who forfeit KNOW without question that they will absolutely obliterate a female - (or insert a small male boy / child if it helps to take sexism out of it) - and they know they could very easily literally kill / murder that person..... and they refuse to do it because, IMHO, they were raised correctly. Not as a male or female - has nothing to do with it, but rather as a very simple lesson of Mercy / and having the mental toughness to KNOW it's mercy, and not a cop out to forfeit.

That's the long answer. The short answer is : male vs female in (almost) any physical sport is madness. Literally, delusional madness and I seriously question the mental make up of those who engage in it seriously. We're not talking about a friendly basketball game at the rec center. Just my opinion.
 
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Viennacock

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Alright, I'll bite, and keep politics out of it.

You are correct. It's not a political thread. It's an "avoidance of reality" topic. It has long been known and even scientifically proven and documented that men, boys, are simply biologically stronger, and bigger from a muscular standpoint. Broad strokes here. Of course there will be exceptions but they are generally few. It has nothing to do with mentality, sexism, ego, pride, etc.... It's simply a matter of force and physics.

If you put a bulldozer up against a match house - the bulldozer is going to win. Force / Physics.
You know how they have bullfrog races? It would be like inserting a Cheetah into that race and honestly expecting the bullfrog to have 1/2 a chance. You also know in sports how it's generally considered "bad form" to not give it your absolute best because anything less would be disrespectful to your opponent???? I believe that's where the forfeiting comes into play. The ones who forfeit KNOW without question that they will absolutely obliterate a female - (or insert a small male boy / child if it helps to take sexism out of it) - and they know they could very easily literally kill / murder that person..... and they refuse to do it because, IMHO, they were raised correctly. Not as a male or female - has nothing to do with it, but rather as a very simple lesson of Mercy / and having the mental toughness to KNOW it's mercy, and not a cop out to forfeit.

That's the long answer. The short answer is : male vs female in (almost) any physical sport is madness. Literally, delusional madness and I seriously question the mental make up of those who engage in it seriously. We're not talking about a friendly basketball game at the rec center. Just my opinion.
We agree on something! 😃
 
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Harvard Gamecock

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So no one is going to ask the obvious question ? Why is a male scheduled against a female in this case ?
 

Viennacock

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So no one is going to ask the obvious question ? Why is a male scheduled against a female in this case ?It's the playoffs. The female was their (the opposing team) best wrestler at that weight. Our team either sends someone out to wrestler her or they forfeit the match. No win situation.
It's the playoff. You send your best at each weight to wrestle. She was their best at that weight. You either wrestle her or forfeit that weight. Hence the no-win situation.

My high school has a ladies wrestling team so we have no girls wrestling with the boys. I believe the sc high school rules allow girls to wrestle on the boys team if they don't have a girls team. They had four girls on the team but only one wrestled in the match.
 

I4CtheFuture

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So no one is going to ask the obvious question ? Why is a male scheduled against a female in this case ?

OP said no politics, so fill in the blank.....

Two words: Identity ___________

It's the playoff. You send your best at each weight to wrestle. She was their best at that weight. You either wrestle her or forfeit that weight. Hence the no-win situation.

My high school has a ladies wrestling team so we have no girls wrestling with the boys. I believe the sc high school rules allow girls to wrestle on the boys team if they don't have a girls team. They had four girls on the team but only one wrestled in the match.

someone is gonna do it, may as well be me

So, logic, reason, and facts with force / physics comes into play sometimes while at other times that logic, reason, facts, is suspended and madness is inserted to protect feelings - Never mind Safety

Madness. (not bait, just pointing out the obvious)
 

will110

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It's the playoff. You send your best at each weight to wrestle. She was their best at that weight. You either wrestle her or forfeit that weight. Hence the no-win situation.

My high school has a ladies wrestling team so we have no girls wrestling with the boys. I believe the sc high school rules allow girls to wrestle on the boys team if they don't have a girls team. They had four girls on the team but only one wrestled in the match.
So this was a biological boy against a biological girl because of the lack of a girls team at a school, not a trans situation?
 

will110

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If a girl wants to wrestle, then it's not fair that she can't if there's not a girls team. But it's also absurd to have a girl on the boy's team. It's not fair to the girl or the boys who are forced to choose between wrestling a girl or forfeiting.

All around no-win situation. I don't have a good solution.
 

Piscis

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If a girl wants to wrestle, then it's not fair that she can't if there's not a girls team. But it's also absurd to have a girl on the boy's team. It's not fair to the girl or the boys who are forced to choose between wrestling a girl or forfeiting.

All around no-win situation. I don't have a good solution.
Life isn't fair. If the school doesn't have a girls wrestling team, the girl can't wrestle unless she finds a club or gym with a girls wrestling team, end of discussion.

Most high schools don't have boys volleyball or softball teams. If a boy wants to play volleyball or softball should he be allowed to be on the girls team? I say no.
 

will110

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Life isn't fair. If the school doesn't have a girls wrestling team, the girl can't wrestle unless she finds a club or gym with a girls wrestling team, end of discussion.

Most high schools don't have boys volleyball or softball teams. If a boy wants to play volleyball or softball should he be allowed to be on the girls team? I say no.
Agree with you completely. I wasn't saying because it's not fair girls should be allowed on the boys wrestling team. I was just acknowledging that it's not fair if a girl wanted to wrestle but couldn't. It's also not fair to force boys to wrestle girls.
 

FootballLVR

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If I were the male wrestler in this case, I would pin her as quickly as possible and HOPE she didn't kick my butt.
 

Evilchicken

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Why are you guys such pu$$ies? Let the girl wrestle. If she can beat the boys, so be it. If she gets hurt wrestling a boy, so be it. Her choice.
Fact is ladies, a skilled woman can beat most men in many types of skilled competition UNLESS they meet an equally skilled man, and then you get into physics and the woman likely loses. This isn’t a no-win situation, it’s a go ******* win it then situation.
 
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Viennacock

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Why are you guys such pu$$ies? Let the girl wrestle. If she can beat the boys, so be it. If she gets hurt wrestling a boy, so be it. Her choice.
Fact is ladies, a skilled woman can beat most men in many types of skilled competition UNLESS they meet an equally skilled man, and then you get into physics and the woman likely loses. This isn’t a no-win situation, it’s a go ******* win it then situation.
You were obviously raised differently than some of us. If a woman chooses to pick a fight with you, (her choice, as you would say), do you go ahead and beat the crap out of her? Of course not.

Understand that you don't agree but it is a no-win situation. The boy who thumped the girl in the wrestling match took a lot of ribbing for wrestling and beating a girl. Trust me, none of these boys want to wrestle a girl.
 
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atl-cock

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Agree with you completely. I wasn't saying because it's not fair girls should be allowed on the boys wrestling team. I was just acknowledging that it's not fair if a girl wanted to wrestle but couldn't. It's also not fair to force boys to wrestle girls.

If the SCHSL or the equivalent in another state (e.g., GHSA - Georgia High School Association) enacts legislation stating that a refusal to match up with what the opponent offers will result in a forfeit, then "fairness" is irrelevant.

Now a state organization could just as well make co-ed wrestling optional.

I think the main thing here is to offer possible solutions to adress the issues. Not everyone may get what they want, but everybody's opinions need to be respected, heard, and addressed. Same with trans types. I'm no fan of sexual reassignment, but it ain't going away. Maybe club/gym teams are the best options for girls without a girls team, and for trans without trans teams/leagues.
 
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Evilchicken

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You were obviously raised differently than some of us. If a woman chooses to pick a fight with you, (her choice, as you would say), do you go ahead and beat the crap out of her? Of course not.

Understand that you don't agree but it is a no-win situation. The boy who thumped the girl in the wrestling match took a lot of ribbing for wrestling and beating a girl. Trust me, none of these boys want to wrestle a girl.
This isn’t a “fight” it’s a sport. I’d tell my son, go whip her ***. And if you get beat, then go shake her hand.
 
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Piscis

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If the SCHSL or the equivalent in another state (e.g., GHSA - Georgia High School Association) enacts legislation stating that a refusal to match up with what the opponent offers will result in a forfeit, then "fairness" is irrelevant.

Now a state organization could just as well make co-ed wrestling optional.

I think the main thing here is to offer possible solutions to adress the issues. Not everyone may get what they want, but everybody's opinions need to be respected heard, and addressed. Same with trans types. I'm no fan of sexual reassignment, but it ain't going away. Maybe club/gym teams are the best options for girls without a girls team, and for trans with out trans teams/leagues.
At some point, someone has to stop the foolishness and set rules that apply to everyone and are fine with 99+% of the population. It is too bad if some guy pretending to be a girl or a girl pretending to be a guy or a girl who wants to play on a boys team or vice versa gets their feeling hurt because they can't play some sport. I can assure them that not being able to play some game is not going to be the worst thing that hurts their feelings in life considering their lifestyle choices.

Males are males and females are females and they are two entirely different physical beings. No amount of seeking "fairness" or "inclusion" or being concerned over an individual's feelings is going to change that. If some private entity wants to set up and fund a sports league for trans athletes or have certain sports for girls or boys that are not offered in schools, that is perfectly fine. Expecting society in general to accept and allow girls to play on boys sports teams or vice versa or allow trans athletes to compete in a sex other than the one they were born as should never be a consideration.
 

atl-cock

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At some point, someone has to stop the foolishness and set rules that apply to everyone and are fine with 99+% of the population. It is too bad if some guy pretending to be a girl or a girl pretending to be a guy or a girl who wants to play on a boys team or vice versa gets their feeling hurt because they can't play some sport. I can assure them that not being able to play some game is not going to be the worst thing that hurts their feelings in life considering their lifestyle choices.

Males are males and females are females and they are two entirely different physical beings. No amount of seeking "fairness" or "inclusion" or being concerned over an individual's feelings is going to change that. If some private entity wants to set up and fund a sports league for trans athletes or have certain sports for girls or boys that are not offered in schools, that is perfectly fine. Expecting society in general to accept and allow girls to play on boys sports teams or vice versa or allow trans athletes to compete in a sex other than the one they were born as should never be a consideration.
I agree with your response in general. But if there's a critical mass of those in the "less than 1%" category to field teams/leagues, then by all means do it, whether it's the state association or a private entity.

At the end of the day, what we're all looking for is fair competitiveness in a category.
 
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DR LOU

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I had a girl on my high school team. She was a lower weight class and beat a lot of boys. She made a lot of boys cry lol. Wreslted her everyday in practice, very tough farm girl.

I don't think people really mind a girl playing with the boys, it boys playing with the girls. Like, it's one thing for a girl to beat up on a bunch of guys, compared to a guy beating up on a bunch of girls. Just like in wrestling, you can wrestle in the weight class above yours if you want (because it's you that takes the extra risk) but you can't wrestle in the weight class below yours. (Because it would be an unfair advantage for you)
 

The Reel Ess

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So, the team with the girl had to wrestle against a boy or the team forfeited? And she wrestled and lost? They can't have someone step up from the next lower class? Or did they have to send her out because of her weight class? Is it possible this could occur in the opposite direction? Sorry for my ignorance of the sport, but we didn't have it coming up.
 

Viennacock

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So, the team with the girl had to wrestle against a boy or the team forfeited? And she wrestled and lost? They can't have someone step up from the next lower class? Or did they have to send her out because of her weight class? Is it possible this could occur in the opposite direction? Sorry for my ignorance of the sport, but we didn't have it coming up.
The team w/o the girl would have to forfeit that weight if they decided not to wrestle the girl. The boy did wrestle the girl and won. Unlike Johnny Lawrence (aka evilchicken), it made me a little bit uncomfortable to watch a boy beat up a girl.

The girl did not have to wrestle. They had a boy that could have wrestled at that weight but put the girl in the line-up. I am assuming she is their stronger wrestle at this weight.

Could not happen in the opposite direction. It is against the rules for boys to compete against girls in a girls sport.
 
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Uscg1984

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I don't know, I don't have really strong feelings about this situation. It makes me uneasy, but I'm not sure there's anything wrong with it.

But to the issue of "fairness" about a high school that doesn't have a girls wrestling team, I don't think that's a factor in my analysis. I didn't think it was fair that I couldn't make the basketball team at my large high school that had tons of basketball talent, but I could have easily made the team at my friend's tiny high school 20 miles away. I didn't think it was fair that my son couldn't make it beyond the JV golf team at his high school that randomly happened to be loaded with golf talent (a JV team that beat most of the varsity teams they competed against) when he would have made varsity at every other high school within a 75 mile radius. But it was what it was. We weren't entitled to have things the way we wanted them. In this scenario, the girl happens to be good at a sport her school doesn't offer (_girls_ wrestling). I'm not saying it's wrong to wrestle with the boys, but I don't think she's entitled to do so out of "fairness."
 
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atl-cock

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The team w/o the girl would have to forfeit that weight if they decided not to wrestle the girl. The boy did wrestle the girl and won. Unlike Johnny Lawrence (aka evilchicken), it made me a little bit uncomfortable to watch a boy beat up a girl.

The girl did not have to wrestle. They had a boy that could have wrestled at that weight but put the girl in the line-up. I am assuming she is their stronger wrestle at this weight.

Could not happen in the opposite direction. It is against the rules for boys to compete against girls in a girls sport.
Analgous to a school with an SCHSL AA enrollment wishing to compete in AAA or AAAA.
 

atl-cock

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I don't know, I don't have really strong feelings about this situation. It makes me uneasy, but I'm not sure there's anything wrong with it.

But to the issue of "fairness" about a high school that doesn't have a girls wrestling team, I don't think that's a factor in my analysis. I didn't think it was fair that I couldn't make the basketball team at my large high school that had tons of basketball talent, but I could have easily made the team at my friend's tiny high school 20 miles away. I didn't think it was fair that my son couldn't make it beyond the JV golf team at his high school that randomly happened to be loaded with golf talent (a JV team that beat most of the varsity teams they competed against) when he would have made varsity at every other high school within a 75 mile radius. But it was what it was. We weren't entitled to have things the way we wanted them. In this scenario, the girl happens to be good at a sport her school doesn't offer (_girls_ wrestling). I'm not saying it's wrong to wrestle with the boys, but I don't think she's entitled to do so out of "fairness."
I enjoy reading thoughtful responses, hence my "Like"
 

Vegas13

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This is not a political thread...

I attended a SC high school playoff match this week. One of the matches was a male vs a female. The male destroyed the female. It was very hard to watch from a morality standpoint. This was AAAAA so it was big boy wrestling.

After watching, I understand why some boys are forfeiting matches to females. They are being put in a no-win situation.

Thoughts?
They need to have female wrestling teams. We have very successful ones out here in Vegas. Flag football too.
 

Viennacock

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They need to have female wrestling teams. We have very successful ones out here in Vegas. Flag football too.
Agreed. Lazy AD's. This is a 5A team with 5 girls on their roster. They certainly have enough to start a team. More work for the AD to add a team. I am a coach, I know how this works.
 

atl-cock

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Agreed. Lazy AD's. This is a 5A team with 5 girls on their roster. They certainly have enough to start a team. More work for the AD to add a team. I am a coach, I know how this works.
Are there enough other schools of comparable enrollment in reasonable proximity (even out-of-state) with girls wrestling teams?
 

Viennacock

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Are there enough other schools of comparable enrollment in reasonable proximity (even out-of-state) with girls wrestling teams?
Yes. Our school has a ladies team and there are a good many others. Very similar to boys volleyball. Plenty of boys wanting to play, but only a few high school AD's in the midlands willing to invest the resources. The sad thing for boys volleyball, boys have nowhere to play in the fall if their high school doesn't have a team.
 
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Piscis

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Yes. Our school has a ladies team and there are a good many others. Very similar to boys volleyball. Plenty of boys wanting to play, but only a few high school AD's in the midlands willing to invest the resources. The sad thing for boys volleyball, boys have nowhere to play in the fall if their high school doesn't have a team.
I'm sure money is a factor. Public schools don't get much funding at all for sports and any team in any sport costs money. Getting booster club money (which is a finite number) for girls wrestling or boys volleyball is a tough sell. Very few booster clubs are going to take money away from football, basketball or baseball for marginal sports.
 

Viennacock

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I'm sure money is a factor. Public schools don't get much funding at all for sports and any team in any sport costs money. Getting booster club money (which is a finite number) for girls wrestling or boys volleyball is a tough sell. Very few booster clubs are going to take money away from football, basketball or baseball for marginal sports.
Agreed, but this isn't a great excuse for not having boys volleyball or girls wrestling in the upstate.

Boys volleyball cost zero dollars outside of transportation in my district. I know because I am involved in boys volleyball. The team has to fundraise for uniform money and equipment. The gate pays for refs and law enforcement.

No different than baseball, girls wrestling or any sport outside of football and basketball in our district. School gives them zero $$'s. 100% fundraising by the team / parents. The only thing they pay for outside of transportation is a coach (which is 🥜).
 

Piscis

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Agreed, but this isn't a great excuse for not having boys volleyball or girls wrestling in the upstate.

Boys volleyball cost zero dollars outside of transportation in my district. I know because I am involved in boys volleyball. The team has to fundraise for uniform money and equipment. The gate pays for refs and law enforcement.

No different than baseball, girls wrestling or any sport outside of football and basketball in our district. School gives them zero $$'s. 100% fundraising by the team / parents. The only thing they pay for outside of transportation is a coach (which is 🥜).

I'm guessing lack of interest is a big factor as well. If enough boys wanted to play volleyball statewide you would see more of it, same with girls wrestling.
 

Viennacock

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I'm guessing lack of interest is a big factor as well. If enough boys wanted to play volleyball statewide you would see more of it, same with girls wrestling.
Not true. Parents and students are begging for a team, particurally at the 5A level. Plain and simple, lazy AD's. They don't want to deal with scheduling and managing addition teams.