Playoff un-expansion

[Quags22]

Playing devil's advocate here...

Rather than expanding the amount of teams per class, why not just add additional classifications? If you're adding teams just add to the classes.

Personally, I dont like the idea of a playoff bye.

If you're letting in 384, just have 12 playoff brackets of 32 teams or go back to 6 classes of 64. Seed 1-32 or 1-64.

Break up the 384, and if you toss em into 12 classes, break up the 64 largest qualifiers in each classification (We will call it 6A and 6B for this exercise) and the largest 32 qualifiers go into 6A, next 32 into 6B, and so on down the line.

Still can seed 1-32.

Can move the regular season back a week.

No playoff byes.

Would need additional state championship site though.

If we have 6 classes of 64, that means you got a top seed playing a two-win team in the opener. That's bad enough in the regular season.

 

[Alexander33]

Given the population disparity, the southern half of the state produces a reasonable number of state champions. In recent years both East St. Louis and Rochester have won four state championships. Belleville Althoff, Decatur St. Teresa and Arcola have each won one championship. That is a total of 11 championships.

Then, if one includes teams that are slightly in the northern half of the state geographically speaking but played in a southern bracket, you can add another five championships. This would include titles won by Peoria, Sacred Heart-Griffin, Williamsville, Monticello and Camp Point Central. Heck, even Joliet Catholic won a 5A title playing in the southern bracket. That is a total of 17 state championships won by teams coming out of a southern bracket.

 

[4Afan]

Given the population disparity, the southern half of the state produces a reasonable number of state champions. In recent years both East St. Louis and Rochester have won four state championships. Belleville Althoff, Decatur St. Teresa and Arcola have each won one championship. That is a total of 11 championships.

Then, if one includes teams that are slightly in the northern half of the state geographically speaking but played in a southern bracket, you can add another five championships. This would include titles won by Peoria, Sacred Heart-Griffin, Williamsville, Monticello and Camp Point Central. Heck, even Joliet Catholic won a 5A title playing in the southern bracket. That is a total of 17 state championships won by teams coming out of a southern bracket.

Part of that is because the southern part of the state is guaranteed a spot in the title game in classes 1A-6A. For all of the titles you mentioned you have to ask yourself if they would still have 17 championships if the brackets were seeded 1-32.

 

[cigaros]

Part of that is because the southern part of the state is guaranteed a spot in the title game in classes 1A-6A. For all of the titles you mentioned you have to ask yourself if they would still have 17 championships if the brackets were seeded 1-32.

Thats as silly assumption. The same could be asked of the North. Rochester beats KMac multiple times during the playoffs and yet Mac appears in the North from season to season. SHG meets up with Morris on 3 occasions in the playoffs and yet Morris is usually in the North. Coal City has a bad habit of getting a clock put on them when they were in the South. While the record over the past 10 seasons is 43-17 in favor of the North in title games 1A-6A, your argument could be used to show the North doesnt have that record if their bracket must play a South path to the title. 3 schools alone have won 9 of those titles and gone 9-6 during that period. The odds are slim a North team plows thru the 4A or 6A bracket on the regular. Most of us in the Southern bracket would prefer a Northern schedule in which we get an easy CPS 1st round game.

 

[4Afan]

Thats as silly assumption. The same could be asked of the North. Rochester beats KMac multiple times during the playoffs and yet Mac appears in the North from season to season. SHG meets up with Morris on 3 occasions in the playoffs and yet Morris is usually in the North. Coal City has a bad habit of getting a clock put on them when they were in the South. While the record over the past 10 seasons is 43-17 in favor of the North in title games 1A-6A, your argument could be used to show the North doesnt have that record if their bracket must play a South path to the title. 3 schools alone have won 9 of those titles and gone 9-6 during that period. The odds are slim a North team plows thru the 4A or 6A bracket on the regular. Most of us in the Southern bracket would prefer a Northern schedule in which we get an easy CPS 1st round game.

Agree. I was just responding to the message about titles from the south.

And most people in the North would prefer the southern path and avoid the suburban teams.

 

[Still Missing34]

If we have 6 classes of 64, that means you got a top seed playing a two-win team in the opener. That's bad enough in the regular season.

Not necessarily, there are going to be play-in games similar to basketball. The winners of those games will play the higher seeds. Sure, a 2-win team may win the play-in game, but there are no guarantees.

 

[cigaros]

Agree. I was just responding to the message about titles from the south.

And most people in the North would prefer the southern path and avoid the suburban teams.

Peoria Notre Dame, SHG, Rochester, & ESL would dominate any of the CPS schools in any class which dominate the Northern bracket list of opponents. Maroa (2A) and Williamsville (3A) would likely beat any CPS school up to 6A any class as well. Though I am not nearly as confident. The reality is this... there are very few surprises year in and year out as to who will be in the quarters and semis. Every year it's how will Loyola, ESL, MC, LWE, JCA, Rochester, Lena, Byron, Wilmington, Glenbard fare? And every season it is no surprise when we see them playing deep into November. The difference being the number of publics vs private schools tends to be disproportionate to the North. This is not an argument for separate playoffs. That's a stupid idea. Seeding 1-32 is the only truly fair way to go in all classes. And this board knows well that we are two public school fans here who rather enjoy watching our successful programs beat private schools during the regular season and in the playoffs annually. Personally, I'd love to see a Rochelle, Dixon, Sterling, Marengo, Geneseo, Marmion, Woodstock, Hillcrest, Streator, or Harvard (all suburban regulars). But I cannot profess the same confidence the North would have against Breese, Centralia, Carterville, Highland, SHG, Cahokia, Mt. Zion, & PND. Sometimes Herrin when their line is decent.

Update- I just ran the probabilities of Maroa (2A) vs the CPS schools from which the North beats up on in early rounds. Maroa goes 72-5 when matched against ANY CPS school regardless of class. The losses coming against, Kenwood (7A), Whitney Young (8A), King & Simeon (6A), and Morgan Park (5A). None of those losses are by more than 1 score. Rochester goes 76-1, with a 4 point loss to Morgan Park as their only blemish. I think the South would love the 1st and 2nd round matchups the North gets every season. It's kind of like how the SEC plays any slew of directional schools or satellite campuses during their preseason, with a sprinkle of a Ferris State or Grand Valley State here and there.

 

[4Afan]

Peoria Notre Dame, SHG, Rochester, & ESL would dominate any of the CPS schools in any class which dominate the Northern bracket list of opponents. Maroa (2A) and Williamsville (3A) would likely beat any CPS school up to 6A any class as well. Though I am not nearly as confident. The reality is this... there are very few surprises year in and year out as to who will be in the quarters and semis. Every year it's how will Loyola, ESL, MC, LWE, JCA, Rochester, Lena, Byron, Wilmington, Glenbard fare? And every season it is no surprise when we see them playing deep into November. The difference being the number of publics vs private schools tends to be disproportionate to the North. This is not an argument for separate playoffs. That's a stupid idea. Seeding 1-32 is the only truly fair way to go in all classes. And this board knows well that we are two public school fans here who rather enjoy watching our successful programs beat private schools during the regular season and in the playoffs annually. Personally, I'd love to see a Rochelle, Dixon, Sterling, Marengo, Geneseo, Marmion, Woodstock, Hillcrest, Streator, or Harvard (all suburban regulars). But I cannot profess the same confidence the North would have against Breese, Centralia, Carterville, Highland, SHG, Cahokia, Mt. Zion, & PND. Sometimes Herrin when their line is decent.

Update- I just ran the probabilities of Maroa (2A) vs the CPS schools from which the North beats up on in early rounds. Maroa goes 72-5 when matched against ANY CPS school regardless of class. The losses coming against, Kenwood (7A), Whitney Young (8A), King & Simeon (6A), and Morgan Park (5A). None of those losses are by more than 1 score. Rochester goes 76-1, with a 4 point loss to Morgan Park as their only blemish. I think the South would love the 1st and 2nd round matchups the North gets every season. It's kind of like how the SEC plays any slew of directional schools or satellite campuses during their preseason, with a sprinkle of a Ferris State or Grand Valley State here and there.

I like how you classify the north based on what would amount to 1 potential first round game against a CPS team. Mind you there was only 2 CPS schools in the bracket in 4A last year.

In years past Morris has typically been a north/south bubble team, depending on which class they fall into, last year they were 4A north, but 2 years ago they were 5A south. When playing in the south they beat Triad by 30 in round 1 and Highland by 16 in round 2. 5A north that year had Naz, Franny, Prairie Ridge, and Sycamore. Yes, it's nice to draw a CPS team in round 1, but top to bottom the north more times than not has the tougher round to the championship game.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

Rochelle, Dixon, Sterling, Marengo, Geneseo, Marmion, Woodstock, Hillcrest, Streator, or Harvard
Really stretching on some of those schools being "suburban regulars".

 

[cigaros]

Rochelle, Dixon, Sterling, Marengo, Geneseo, Marmion, Woodstock, Hillcrest, Streator, or Harvard
Really stretching on some of those schools being "suburban regulars".

Fact check me on whether those are regulars in the playoffs
Of the past 10 seasons, the teams I named were in the playoffs:
Rochelle- 9
Dixon- 9
Sterling- 10
Marengo- 8
Geneseo- 7
Marmion- 6
Woodstock North- 6
Hilllcrest- 9
Streator- 1 YOU GOT ME1
Harvard- their name was in my head due to their success prior to 2014.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

Fact check me on whether those are regulars in the playoffs

I bolded the part that is a stretch. I am not speaking about if those schools are playoff regulars. But you know this.

 

[cigaros]

I like how you classify the north based on what would amount to 1 potential first round game against a CPS team. Mind you there was only 2 CPS schools in the bracket in 4A last year.

In years past Morris has typically been a north/south bubble team, depending on which class they fall into, last year they were 4A north, but 2 years ago they were 5A south. When playing in the south they beat Triad by 30 in round 1 and Highland by 16 in round 2. 5A north that year had Naz, Franny, Prairie Ridge, and Sycamore. Yes, it's nice to draw a CPS team in round 1, but top to bottom the north more times than not has the tougher round to the championship game.

I stated a 2A school would dominate if they had the early round games the North has. The premise was 1A-6A is "an automatic bid to the title game for the South" as you stated.

But then again, there is a 4A school down in the South which has a 9-1 record in title games against the North since 2010. And only 2 of those 9 wins were within 1 score. It's a nonsensical point. Now, if you made the assertion the semifinal matchups were tougher, I could see some truth. I'll dive in and see. But the statement of it being an automatic bid is absurd as it lacks in truth.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

I stated a 2A school would dominate if they had the early round games the North has. The premise was 1A-6A is "an automatic bid to the title game for the South" as you stated.

But then again, there is a 4A school down in the South which has a 9-1 record in title games against the North since 2010. And only 2 of those 9 wins were within 1 score. It's a nonsensical point. Now, if you made the assertion the semifinal matchups were tougher, I could see some truth. I'll dive in and see. But the statement of it being an automatic bid is absurd as it lacks in truth.

It is also fluid in the 5A landscape year to year with success factor. 5A went from an absolute bloodbath up north to a much different landscape when two schools got bumped to 6A. Same happed in 4A with Providence and Francis getting bumped but those where because of multiplier waiver not success factor.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

Fact check me on whether those are regulars in the playoffs
Of the past 10 seasons, the teams I named were in the playoffs:
Rochelle- 9
Dixon- 9
Sterling- 10
Marengo- 8
Geneseo- 7
Marmion- 6
Woodstock North- 6
Hilllcrest- 9
Streator- 1 YOU GOT ME1
Harvard- their name was in my head due to their success prior to 2014.

You swung and missed.

 

[Alexander33]

The northern brackets have the best and the worst of the extremes. The best are the teams from the Chicago Catholic League (CCL). The worst are the teams from the Chicago Public League (CPL). In recent years the CCL is playing football at an entirely different level than the rest of the state. The 16 teams that play in the best four divisions of the CCL have won 19 state championships over the last five seasons. Inasmuch as they do not compete for the 2A and 1A championships, that means they have won 19 of the 30 championships for which they did compete. That is a success rate of 63% (by only 16 teams). Any serious championship contender will want to avoid those teams in the playoffs for as long as possible, which means they would prefer playing in a southern bracket when possible.

Of the remaining 11 championships, 7 were won by a northern team and 4 were won by a southern team. So, after excluding the CCL teams, the southern teams seem to be winning a reasonable number of championships (though still fewer than the northern teams).

The same thing is true for classes 1A and 2A. Of the available 10 championships, 7 were won by northern teams and 3 by southern teams.

The far southern portion of the state has not done too well of late. The last time a team from that part of the state won a football title, it was a 3A championship won by Harrisburg in 2000 (26 years ago). That was the last year in which six class levels were used. Over the last five seasons two teams from that part of the state did at least make it to a championship game. Mount Carmel (the city) made it to the 3A championship game in 2023 and Nashville made it to the 2A championship game in 2021. Neither team faired very well in their title game appearance.

In the end, I suppose it is a matter of personal preference as to whether or not a person likes the use of northern and southern brackets. I recognize I am in the distinct minority, but I enjoy the regional flavor it brings to the championship games. And, because all the title games are televised, I get to see teams that I otherwise would not have an opportunity to see.

 

[Wassup13_rivals219252]

This is a large debate for an easy solution.

6 classes @ 32 teams each.

Anyone who wants more teams, does not like to travel, wants their kids to get more game film or whatever your issue is can opt to the NIT Tournament (secondary playoff system).

Problem Solved.

 

[CSLfan]

This is a large debate for an easy solution.

6 classes @ 32 teams each.

Anyone who wants more teams, does not like to travel, wants their kids to get more game film or whatever your issue is can opt to the NIT Tournament (secondary playoff system).

Problem Solved.

But what problem? What problem did expanding the playoffs create? Outside of the fact that some feel it waters down the regular season and makes 5 wins feel less important or it rewards mediocrity, etc. What new problem did we create?

 

[4Afan]

I stated a 2A school would dominate if they had the early round games the North has. The premise was 1A-6A is "an automatic bid to the title game for the South" as you stated.

But then again, there is a 4A school down in the South which has a 9-1 record in title games against the North since 2010. And only 2 of those 9 wins were within 1 score. It's a nonsensical point. Now, if you made the assertion the semifinal matchups were tougher, I could see some truth. I'll dive in and see. But the statement of it being an automatic bid is absurd as it lacks in truth.

Why do we care what a 2A school would do against a CPS school? Yes, those are typically easy wins but top to bottom the north is typically more difficult. As I said previously there was only 2 CPS teams in 4A last year.

We know Rochester is Rochester and no one is disputing that. The question is whether Rochester or any other southern school would have the same success if the classes were seeded 1-32. Would Rochester have 9 titles if they regularly had to go through some combination of Montini, JCA, Morris, Geneseo, Sycamore, or St. Francis before even reaching the title game?

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

That's a story as old as time. It's not going to happen.

However, maybe they can create their own Southern Illinois Version of the Prep Bowl.

Imo replace can with should and we're on the right train tracks again.

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

Given the population disparity, the southern half of the state produces a reasonable number of state champions. In recent years both East St. Louis and Rochester have won four state championships. Belleville Althoff, Decatur St. Teresa and Arcola have each won one championship. That is a total of 11 championships.

Then, if one includes teams that are slightly in the northern half of the state geographically speaking but played in a southern bracket, you can add another five championships. This would include titles won by Peoria, Sacred Heart-Griffin, Williamsville, Monticello and Camp Point Central. Heck, even Joliet Catholic won a 5A title playing in the southern bracket. That is a total of 17 state championships won by teams coming out of a southern bracket.

None of those are south or outside the metro east though... that was my point... The days of DuQuoin, Marion, Mt. Carmel the Snake Pit Town, Harrisburg, Effingham, Mt. Vernon, and on and on being relevant to the rest of the state in football are gone.

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

Why do we care what a 2A school would do against a CPS school? Yes, those are typically easy wins but top to bottom the north is typically more difficult. As I said previously there was only 2 CPS teams in 4A last year.

We know Rochester is Rochester and no one is disputing that. The question is whether Rochester or any other southern school would have the same success if the classes were seeded 1-32. Would Rochester have 9 titles if they regularly had to go through some combination of Montini, JCA, Morris, Geneseo, Sycamore, or St. Francis before even reaching the title game?

Idk, but most years during the original dynasty for Rochester the brackets didn't include any of those programs and when they did, they weren't making it to state to play Rochester, so who knows. You could be right, but we've seen Rockets go 5A, win it, and they've beaten a CCL, and they've had to go thru SHG in the South, and they're 9-1 against the north in title games... pretty good sample size to say they'd "probably" still have plenty of titles in 4A... just my opinion though.

Since the dynasty began, all games for Rochester in playoffs, I'll leave off 2009, which I would personally call the true start to the dynasty. That team was real good, but Metamora was gooder that time...

2010 (And so it begins... "if only we hadn't fumbled" -QND probably, And just like that, Metamora became Nevamora, 1 seed, Title #1)
Freeburg 49-7
Effingham 53-2
QND 23-21
Metamora 50-17
Alleman 24-7

North QF's - Mendota, Sandwich, Richmond-Burton, Alleman

2011 (The " Game... 5 seed, Title #2)
QND 56-35
Manteno 42-28
Bishop McNamara 55-21
Charleston 41-13
Richmond-Burton 42-39

North QF's - Richmond-Burton, Evergreen Park, Stillman Valley, Sandwich

2012 (Ain't no stopping us now... Luther Vandross IYKYK, 2 seed, Title #3)
Mahomet-Seymour 43-0
Charleston 42-14
PND 46-21
Harrisburg 49-22
Alleman 43-18

North QF's - Chicago Brooks, Evergreen Park, Alleman, Coal City

2013 (The South's Catholics ain't no match... 2 seed, Title #4)
Taylorville 42-7
Breese Mater Dei 50-21
Althoff 50-21
Alleman 46-21
Geneseo 16-8

North QF's - Phillips, Geneseo, Harvard, Rockford Lutheran

2014 (Phillips 66 Gas and some matches... 3 seed, Title #5)
Mt. Zion 65-35
QND 35-14
BCC 56-21
Herrin 28-9
The Chicago Mon-Star's Phillips 49-28

North QF's - Rockford Lutheran, Phillips, Coal City, Manteno

2015 (And to Earth, we fell... 4 seed, Lost in Quarterfinals)
Alton Marquette 52-7
Murphysboro 47-20
Althoff 42-46
Phillips spanked Althoff 51-7 for the title

North QF's - Phillips, Geneseo, Marengo, Rockford Lutheran

2016 (A return to our Dynastic roots... 5 seed, Title #6)
Bethalto Civic Memorial 52-7
Mt. Zion 63-21
Althoff 48-47
Canton 49-21
Johnsburg 38-14

North QF's - Herscher, Phillips, Johnsburg, Genoa-Kingston

2017 ("I gotta drain the weasel man. Morris Chestnut lookin' boy... 1 seed, Title #7)
Fairbury Prairie Central 42-6
Althoff 41-23
Herrin 56-14
Highland 31-14
Morris 24-21

North QF's - Rochelle, Morris, Chicago Raby, Dixon

2018 (No scientific explanation... 4 seed, Lost in Semi's)
Breese Central 53-27
Pontiac 47-28
Taylorville 64-26
Bishop McNamara 42-52

North QF's - IC Catholic, Marengo, Coal City, Richmond-Burton

2019 ("The gang goes to 5A and beats a CCL" ope, scuse me, 2 seed, Title #8)
LaSalle-Peru 68-26
Highland 42-7
SHG 49-35
Mascoutah 56-34
Chicago St. Rita 42-28

North QF's - Coal City, St. Francis, Richmond-Burton, IC Catholic

2020 (Vid)

2021 (Back to 4A, The Academy is... not playing Rochester for a title, 1 seed, Lost in Semi's)
Cahokia 48-0
Paris 55-20
Freeburg 57-28
SHG 42-49
JCA spanky-doodles the Rats 56-27 for title.

North QF's - JCA, Genoa-Kingston, Richmond-Burton, Phillips

2022 (A Deja Vu is usually a glitch in the Matrix, 4 seed, Lost in Semi's)
Effingham 45-14
Breese Central 42-0
Carterville 41-28
SHG 42-56
The Rats beat the New Lenox Catholics 44-20 for the title

North QF's - Richmond-Burton, Prov, Rochelle, St. Francis

2023 (The return to glory... 1 seed, Title #9)
Lincoln 59-14
Coal City 45-3
Breese Central 49-13
Murphysboro 42-14
Burbank St. Laurence 59-38

North QF's - Sandwich, West Chi Wheaton, IC Catholic, St. Laurence

2024 (We don't talk about it... 4 seed, Lost on opening night)
PND 58-59
Chicago DePaul defeats Mt. Zion 40-6 for the title.

North QF's - DePaul, St. Laurence, Coal City, Dixon

2025 (Revenge, and a Double Chocolate Espresso Montini for the lady (cheering on The Rats)... 3 seed, Lost in Title - 1st time btw that happened)
Taylorville 56-7
Waterloo 55-21
SHG 41-35
Breese Central 43-42
Montini 33-47

North QF's - Montini, Coal City, Morris, Geneseo

Ahh, the memories...

 

[Cross Bones]

@Roamin' Catholic its the Luther Vandross for me

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

@Roamin' Catholic its the Luther Vandross for me

I'll post it here for those who haven't heard this CLASSIC

 

[Quags22]

Not necessarily, there are going to be play-in games similar to basketball. The winners of those games will play the higher seeds. Sure, a 2-win team may win the play-in game, but there are no guarantees.

Do you understand how a 64-team bracket works? There are no byes

 

[Scrapper33]

The 3-6 coaches wont feel like a success. I doubt they put a lot into film and practice that week.

I think this is the states version of working to separate private vs public. You’ll see some privates at 3/6 beat some 7/2 teams first round. That will open a ton of reasonable complaints.

 

[4Afan]

I think this is the states version of working to separate private vs public. You’ll see some privates at 3/6 beat some 7/2 teams first round. That will open a ton of reasonable complaints.

The "state" (IHSA) had nothing to do with this. It was proposed and voted on by all the schools.

 

[Still Missing34]

Do you understand how a 64-team bracket works? There are no byes

Clearly, I misread or misunderstood at the time, but you be you.

 

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

Inclusion hasn't gotten us a better product in this specific situation, has it?

The inclusive option was laid out, in districts, and the schools shot it down faster than a duck on opening day.

To your point though... how long until the elite in the state get fed up and just create their own playoffs and champions? That seems to be what some people want anyways... CCL + ESL and maybe a handful of others... Morris, Rochester, SHG come to mind. The whole goal for many voting in this scenario just want private schools gone... well their goes the quality of the state's tournament with it...

Well... many believe ESL to be a "private" because they have all of ESL and the surrounding area to pick from... They are a beast for a reason... I would like to see them in 8A because they can compete every year!

 

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

Given the population disparity, the southern half of the state produces a reasonable number of state champions. In recent years both East St. Louis and Rochester have won four state championships. Belleville Althoff, Decatur St. Teresa and Arcola have each won one championship. That is a total of 11 championships.

Then, if one includes teams that are slightly in the northern half of the state geographically speaking but played in a southern bracket, you can add another five championships. This would include titles won by Peoria, Sacred Heart-Griffin, Williamsville, Monticello and Camp Point Central. Heck, even Joliet Catholic won a 5A title playing in the southern bracket. That is a total of 17 state championships won by teams coming out of a southern bracket.

Youre throwing in years of history with that. Arcola was a power 20+ years ago...

 

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

Part of that is because the southern part of the state is guaranteed a spot in the title game in classes 1A-6A. For all of the titles you mentioned you have to ask yourself if they would still have 17 championships if the brackets were seeded 1-32.

One has to wonder why the IHSA doesn't seed 1-32 for every class. Is it too much common sense to do it or just inept leadership lacking foresight???

 

[Patrick Devitt]

One has to wonder why the IHSA doesn't seed 1-32 for every class. Is it too much common sense to do it or just inept leadership lacking foresight???

I thought it was due to travel concerns and fuel costs? They made the switch for 7A/8A as most of those schools are near Chicagoland, whereas in 1-32 in 2A you could realistically have teams like Eastland-Pearl City playing Sparta or Durand-Pecatonica playing Johnston City. Those would be some very long road trips. I get why they do it, but I dont agree with splitting north and south.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

One has to wonder why the IHSA doesn't seed 1-32 for every class. Is it too much common sense to do it or just inept leadership lacking foresight???

The IHSA is not concerned with the best two teams playing in the championship game.

 

[4Afan]

The IHSA is not concerned with the best two teams playing in the championship game.

Yep, they've said they want equal representation between the north and south in the finals.

 

[4Afan]

I thought it was due to travel concerns and fuel costs? They made the switch for 7A/8A as most of those schools are near Chicagoland, whereas in 1-32 in 2A you could realistically have teams like Eastland-Pearl City playing Sparta or Durand-Pecatonica playing Johnston City. Those would be some very long road trips. I get why they do it, but I dont agree with splitting north and south.

That's what they say and want you to believe but it loses steam when a team like Morris goes south and has had to travel to Triad or a couple years ago when Highland had to make the drive up to Morris.

 

[cigaros]

Idk, but most years during the original dynasty for Rochester the brackets didn't include any of those programs and when they did, they weren't making it to state to play Rochester, so who knows. You could be right, but we've seen Rockets go 5A, win it, and they've beaten a CCL, and they've had to go thru SHG in the South, and they're 9-1 against the north in title games... pretty good sample size to say they'd "probably" still have plenty of titles in 4A... just my opinion though.

Since the dynasty began, all games for Rochester in playoffs, I'll leave off 2009, which I would personally call the true start to the dynasty. That team was real good, but Metamora was gooder that time...

2010 (And so it begins... "if only we hadn't fumbled" -QND probably, And just like that, Metamora became Nevamora, 1 seed, Title #1)
Freeburg 49-7
Effingham 53-2
QND 23-21
Metamora 50-17
Alleman 24-7

North QF's - Mendota, Sandwich, Richmond-Burton, Alleman

2011 (The " Game... 5 seed, Title #2)
QND 56-35
Manteno 42-28
Bishop McNamara 55-21
Charleston 41-13
Richmond-Burton 42-39

North QF's - Richmond-Burton, Evergreen Park, Stillman Valley, Sandwich

2012 (Ain't no stopping us now... Luther Vandross IYKYK, 2 seed, Title #3)
Mahomet-Seymour 43-0
Charleston 42-14
PND 46-21
Harrisburg 49-22
Alleman 43-18

North QF's - Chicago Brooks, Evergreen Park, Alleman, Coal City

2013 (The South's Catholics ain't no match... 2 seed, Title #4)
Taylorville 42-7
Breese Mater Dei 50-21
Althoff 50-21
Alleman 46-21
Geneseo 16-8

North QF's - Phillips, Geneseo, Harvard, Rockford Lutheran

2014 (Phillips 66 Gas and some matches... 3 seed, Title #5)
Mt. Zion 65-35
QND 35-14
BCC 56-21
Herrin 28-9
The Chicago Mon-Star's Phillips 49-28

North QF's - Rockford Lutheran, Phillips, Coal City, Manteno

2015 (And to Earth, we fell... 4 seed, Lost in Quarterfinals)
Alton Marquette 52-7
Murphysboro 47-20
Althoff 42-46
Phillips spanked Althoff 51-7 for the title

North QF's - Phillips, Geneseo, Marengo, Rockford Lutheran

2016 (A return to our Dynastic roots... 5 seed, Title #6)
Bethalto Civic Memorial 52-7
Mt. Zion 63-21
Althoff 48-47
Canton 49-21
Johnsburg 38-14

North QF's - Herscher, Phillips, Johnsburg, Genoa-Kingston

2017 ("I gotta drain the weasel man. Morris Chestnut lookin' boy... 1 seed, Title #7)
Fairbury Prairie Central 42-6
Althoff 41-23
Herrin 56-14
Highland 31-14
Morris 24-21

North QF's - Rochelle, Morris, Chicago Raby, Dixon

2018 (No scientific explanation... 4 seed, Lost in Semi's)
Breese Central 53-27
Pontiac 47-28
Taylorville 64-26
Bishop McNamara 42-52

North QF's - IC Catholic, Marengo, Coal City, Richmond-Burton

2019 ("The gang goes to 5A and beats a CCL" ope, scuse me, 2 seed, Title #8)
LaSalle-Peru 68-26
Highland 42-7
SHG 49-35
Mascoutah 56-34
Chicago St. Rita 42-28

North QF's - Coal City, St. Francis, Richmond-Burton, IC Catholic

2020 (Vid)

2021 (Back to 4A, The Academy is... not playing Rochester for a title, 1 seed, Lost in Semi's)
Cahokia 48-0
Paris 55-20
Freeburg 57-28
SHG 42-49
JCA spanky-doodles the Rats 56-27 for title.

North QF's - JCA, Genoa-Kingston, Richmond-Burton, Phillips

2022 (A Deja Vu is usually a glitch in the Matrix, 4 seed, Lost in Semi's)
Effingham 45-14
Breese Central 42-0
Carterville 41-28
SHG 42-56
The Rats beat the New Lenox Catholics 44-20 for the title

North QF's - Richmond-Burton, Prov, Rochelle, St. Francis

2023 (The return to glory... 1 seed, Title #9)
Lincoln 59-14
Coal City 45-3
Breese Central 49-13
Murphysboro 42-14
Burbank St. Laurence 59-38

North QF's - Sandwich, West Chi Wheaton, IC Catholic, St. Laurence

2024 (We don't talk about it... 4 seed, Lost on opening night)
PND 58-59
Chicago DePaul defeats Mt. Zion 40-6 for the title.

North QF's - DePaul, St. Laurence, Coal City, Dixon

2025 (Revenge, and a Double Chocolate Espresso Montini for the lady (cheering on The Rats)... 3 seed, Lost in Title - 1st time btw that happened)
Taylorville 56-7
Waterloo 55-21
SHG 41-35
Breese Central 43-42
Montini 33-47

North QF's - Montini, Coal City, Morris, Geneseo

Ahh, the memories...

Very good breakdown and witty additions...

 

[cigaros]

One has to wonder why the IHSA doesn't seed 1-32 for every class. Is it too much common sense to do it or just inept leadership lacking foresight???

Common sense seems to be kryptonite for many in this state. The people from the Northern bracket will proclaim to be the truly elite programs deserving of only the utmost respect because they're "Chicago", though most are too scared to actually live in the city. And then they will proclaim it's too far to travel past Joliet for an early round game.

Then the Southern bracket people will say they don't want to go to Chicago and risk their vehicles or buses getting vandalized when they park in the "Wild 100's" for a 1st round matchup against an overrated CPS squad.

The reality is this.... most fanbases are lazy. That's why we are here discussing topics with equally passionate fans from other fanbases. #11 Freeburg should host #22 Chicago North Lawndale Charter. #6 Chicago Clark should host Bethalto Civic Memorial. It would resolve an immense amount of misunderstanding from how good the typical Northern bracket seedings can be after the 1st two rounds as well as how good the South truly is when they play the same squads. The reality is this.... which section of the state has better talent is completely subjective until the classes are seeded as true 1-32. ESL got out of the 6A bracket for good reasons. They don't get better by meeting Chatham every year in the playoffs. And I have yet to hear of moment in which teams from the North were asking for matchups against downstate powerhouses. In 4A, Leo doesn't leave Chicagoland, Montini scheduled Hoopeston rather than an actual competitive non-con and still doesn't leave the collar counties, Marmion scheduled a single team outside of their vicinity...and lost, Those are just the playoff eligible CCL squads in that class. And this does not discount the CCL. But it definitely draws attention to the fact they aren't actually in favor of a true 1-32, otherwise they would be utilizing all of their supposed power and influence to make it happen. I mean, if the Chicagoland fanbases and programs are truly superior, wouldn't they want to prove it during the season and into the playoffs before they get their 1st round CPS practice game? The same can be said for the South. It's boring playing Freeburg, Breese, Taylorville, Effingham, etc every year. I would love to see Rochester visit Dixon, Dyett, Evergreen Park, or whatever other typical 2nd round losing squad the Northern bracket powers beat up on an annual basis on their way to a quarterfinal berth. And the North could have the same luxury of seeing what the typical 2nd round matchups are. Or, going 1-32 may actually clean up some of this subjective nonsense the two brackets spew at each other as they profess one area's talent is better than the other without actually matching up. It's like two dogs barking at each other thru a fence and they never go to the open gate.

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

Very good breakdown and witty additions...

Ha, thanks. I mean, I don't think we're there yet, DL still going strong... but when it comes time for the movie... I've got some song choices I think are must's for certain scenes... And no, I'm not talking about Ciara's"Goodies" while doing a butt cookie race.

 

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

Common sense seems to be kryptonite for many in this state. The people from the Northern bracket will proclaim to be the truly elite programs deserving of only the utmost respect because they're "Chicago", though most are too scared to actually live in the city. And then they will proclaim it's too far to travel past Joliet for an early round game.

Then the Southern bracket people will say they don't want to go to Chicago and risk their vehicles or buses getting vandalized when they park in the "Wild 100's" for a 1st round matchup against an overrated CPS squad.

The reality is this.... most fanbases are lazy. That's why we are here discussing topics with equally passionate fans from other fanbases. #11 Freeburg should host #22 Chicago North Lawndale Charter. #6 Chicago Clark should host Bethalto Civic Memorial. It would resolve an immense amount of misunderstanding from how good the typical Northern bracket seedings can be after the 1st two rounds as well as how good the South truly is when they play the same squads. The reality is this.... which section of the state has better talent is completely subjective until the classes are seeded as true 1-32. ESL got out of the 6A bracket for good reasons. They don't get better by meeting Chatham every year in the playoffs. And I have yet to hear of moment in which teams from the North were asking for matchups against downstate powerhouses. In 4A, Leo doesn't leave Chicagoland, Montini scheduled Hoopeston rather than an actual competitive non-con and still doesn't leave the collar counties, Marmion scheduled a single team outside of their vicinity...and lost, Those are just the playoff eligible CCL squads in that class. And this does not discount the CCL. But it definitely draws attention to the fact they aren't actually in favor of a true 1-32, otherwise they would be utilizing all of their supposed power and influence to make it happen. I mean, if the Chicagoland fanbases and programs are truly superior, wouldn't they want to prove it during the season and into the playoffs before they get their 1st round CPS practice game? The same can be said for the South. It's boring playing Freeburg, Breese, Taylorville, Effingham, etc every year. I would love to see Rochester visit Dixon, Dyett, Evergreen Park, or whatever other typical 2nd round losing squad the Northern bracket powers beat up on an annual basis on their way to a quarterfinal berth. And the North could have the same luxury of seeing what the typical 2nd round matchups are. Or, going 1-32 may actually clean up some of this subjective nonsense the two brackets spew at each other as they profess one area's talent is better than the other without actually matching up. It's like two dogs barking at each other thru a fence and they never go to the open gate.

What we have just waters out the really good teams before the Quarters... THAT is criminal... But Crime and Illinois Government goes hand-in-hand...

 

[AwGabJazz]

There seems to be some disagreement on teams that will get into playoffs. I have heard that all 3 - 6 teams will get into the playoffs by some, and then others say it is case by case and not all 3- 6 teams will get in and it is based on strength of schedule. Does anyone know facts on this? Before it was always all 5-4 teams got it and some 4-5 teams. If anyone knows for sure either way please reply, thank you in advance

 

[STIX815]

There seems to be some disagreement on teams that will get into playoffs. I have heard that all 3 - 6 teams will get into the playoffs by some, and then others say it is case by case and not all 3- 6 teams will get in and it is based on strength of schedule. Does anyone know facts on this? Before it was always all 5-4 teams got it and some 4-5 teams. If anyone knows for sure either way please reply, thank you in advance

ALL 3-6 teams will get in. If you listen to or read Steve Soucie's predications, we are going to need a bunch of 2 win teams in the field as well. I hope we get rid of this system after the year is over.