The Official Unbiased Top Ten week 7

[80sRambler]

IC is a 3A team and currently is undefeated playing a CCL schedule against larger schools. Loyola is definitely back, but I feel they are getting an inflated ranking due to playing in the CCL despite the fact that they currently haven't beat a team with a winning record, so why doesn't IC get ranked using the same theory?

 

[80sRambler]

We get SI @ LA in week 7 and LA @ IC week 8. Assuming IC plays their starters, we might achieve some clarity.

 

[4Afan]

Interesting.

You think IC should get extra points for being small and playing larger CCL schools, but at the same time think I am giving Loyola extra points for playing CCL schools? Loyola beat Rice who is one of the assumptions I have due to being the 7A champ AND what they returned. What is the impressive win for IC or Iggy at this point? And I think my rankings overtly do not give the CCL extra credit I feel other polls do ie Montini, Providence, Rita, St Francis

I looked at LT, their best win is WWS which is solid. What are you seeing that says they should be top 10?

Brook and Oswego both returned a ton from playoff runs in the highest class. I have to assume a certain level of good there. The H-F loss takes some luster off that for Brook, Oswego did what it was supposed to do, but were removed with the Brook loss. And I'm pretty sure I lowered them after not beating NV the way I figured they should have.

Massey and Rivals rankings (and pretty much any algorithm) are awful

It's week 7, at this point you can't keep talking about returning starters and what brook and oswego did last year.

IC has a win over Iggy and Iggy has wins over Fenwick and Rita. LT beat WWS and Hinadale Central and have been beating lesser teams how they should be. For me it's consistency throughout the year combined with SOS or who they beat, where I feel like you are putting too much emphasis on individual games week to week, good teams can lay an egg any given week and still be a very good team. One example is Batavia, Rivals has them at #8 and Michael O'Brien still has them at #6 even with 2 losses.

I agree everyone has their opinions on the computer rankings, but they're accurate enough that certain states use them for seeding their post seasons. To add another, MaxPreps has Oswego at 19 and Bolingbrook at 50. As far as other humans go MOB has Bolingbrook at 14 and Oswego at 15.

 

[DirtySixThirty]

We get SI @ LA in week 7 and LA @ IC week 8. Assuming IC plays their starters, we might achieve some clarity.

Loyola's strength of schedule is a menace! If they get through this regular season undefeated, I don't understand how they're not #1 on everyone's list.

 

[Cross Bones]

It's week 7, at this point you can't keep talking about returning starters and what brook and oswego did last year.

IC has a win over Iggy and Iggy has wins over Fenwick and Rita. LT beat WWS and Hinadale Central and have been beating lesser teams how they should be. For me it's consistency throughout the year combined with SOS or who they beat, where I feel like you are putting too much emphasis on individual games week to week, good teams can lay an egg any given week and still be a very good team. One example is Batavia, Rivals has them at #8 and Michael O'Brien still has them at #6 even with 2 losses.

I agree everyone has their opinions on the computer rankings, but they're accurate enough that certain states use them for seeding their post seasons. To add another, MaxPreps has Oswego at 19 and Bolingbrook at 50. As far as other humans go MOB has Bolingbrook at 14 and Oswego at 15.

Again, the returnees and last season's results are a starting point. Using what you are suggesting I would have to assume ESL's and Plainfield Central's week 1 wins are equivalent, and Plainfield C should have been top 10.

You think that I am putting too much emphasis on one game, but only cite one IC game--the win over Iggy. Iggy has a win over Fenwick, again one game. Fenwick was 6A champs sure, but how much of that team returned to make me think it was similar to the championship team? I think you are giving 3-3 Rita extra credit here for being CCL.
Consistently beating bad teams the way you should means nothing to me, actually less than nothing. I don't consider it at all. Why should Iggy get points for beating Viator the same way Leo beat Viator? Or why should Brook get points for blowing out Plainfield C?

The states using these awful algorithms for their playoffs are dumb. Thats how you end up with teams with identical records in the same conference where one team beat the other and wins the conference but is 30 spots behind the team it beat. You're providing the evidence of why the algorithms dont work.

The human polls you're referencing are better than the algorithms, but not better than The Official Unbiased Top Ten. They're neither official nor unbiased. That's why you keep seeing them have to skyrocket teams like Sandburg and Naz after they beat teams they refuse to drop, confusing the masses, while I said back in week 2 that Sandburg was a normal Sandburg team, and dropped Naz after the IC loss.

 

[4Afan]

Again, the returnees and last season's results are a starting point. Using what you are suggesting I would have to assume ESL's and Plainfield Central's week 1 wins are equivalent, and Plainfield C should have been top 10.

You think that I am putting too much emphasis on one game, but only cite one IC game--the win over Iggy. Iggy has a win over Fenwick, again one game. Fenwick was 6A champs sure, but how much of that team returned to make me think it was similar to the championship team? I think you are giving 3-3 Rita extra credit here for being CCL.
Consistently beating bad teams the way you should means nothing to me, actually less than nothing. I don't consider it at all. Why should Iggy get points for beating Viator the same way Leo beat Viator? Or why should Brook get points for blowing out Plainfield C?

The states using these awful algorithms for their playoffs are dumb. Thats how you end up with teams with identical records in the same conference where one team beat the other and wins the conference but is 30 spots behind the team it beat. You're providing the evidence of why the algorithms dont work.

The human polls you're referencing are better than the algorithms, but not better than The Official Unbiased Top Ten. They're neither official nor unbiased. That's why you keep seeing them have to skyrocket teams like Sandburg and Naz after they beat teams they refuse to drop, confusing the masses, while I said back in week 2 that Sandburg was a normal Sandburg team, and dropped Naz after the IC loss.

Like I said, returning starters and what they did last year is fine for weeks 1 and 2 but by week 7 there's enough data that there's no need to keep referencing last year.

You asked for specific IC and Iggy games. It's their total body of work and consistency on the season that has them ranked in the top 10.

Multiple states use MaxPreps for seeding and Arizona uses them to determine who's in their open class. California uses CalPreps for the playoffs. Rivals and Massey are used for national rankings. So like them or not they're respected around the country.

 

[chitown-irish]

Sandburg would have one loss if they had bolingbrooks schedule. Bolingbrook would have at least 3 losses if they had sandburgs. All schedules , wins, and losses are not equal.

 

[Cross Bones]

Like I said, returning starters and what they did last year is fine for weeks 1 and 2 but by week 7 there's enough data that there's no need to keep referencing last year.

You asked for specific IC and Iggy games. It's their total body of work and consistency on the season that has them ranked in the top 10.

Multiple states use MaxPreps for seeding and Arizona uses them to determine who's in their open class. California uses CalPreps for the playoffs. Rivals and Massey are used for national rankings. So like them or not they're respected around the country.

Your data doesn't mean anything without the historical context. Why is Iggy's 5-1 better than Oswego's 5-1 to you? I don't see what you see in IC's total body of work. What about the 28-12 win over StL is better than Oswego's win over Geneva?

Sandburg would have one loss if they had bolingbrooks schedule. Bolingbrook would have at least 3 losses if they had sandburgs. All schedules , wins, and losses are not equal.

Luckily we have a documented history of playing Sandburg and the teams on Sandburg's schedule. When Bolingbrook went to the SWP I likened it to joining a conference with no LWE, but 1 HF and 4 Sandburgs. Seems to have played out exactly that way. And certainly more difficult every week than anyone Providence played in its playoff run to the 5A title game.

 

[ODERTY1]

No harm meant but is Boilingbrook a over talked about average ball club. Sm i the only one that feels this way?

 

[Cross Bones]

No harm meant but is Boilingbrook a over talked about average ball club. I'm the only one that feels this way

Could be. But they get to prove it every season instead of being hyped up then losing to Cary Grove who struggles with Huntley. Did you ever get to point out where I had Loyola over ESL? Im still confused about your prior post.

 

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

Everyone's a critic...

Lets see someone step out and make their own top 10. Im sure it will be interesting...

 

[Cross Bones]

Everyone's a critic...

Lets see someone step out and make their own top 10. Im sure it will be interesting...

I love the critics. Helps to refine the thought process and possibly see what may have been missed. Discussion is what we're here for.

 

[chitown-irish]

Your data doesn't mean anything without the historical context. Why is Iggy's 5-1 better than Oswego's 5-1 to you? I don't see what you see in IC's total body of work. What about the 28-12 win over StL is better than Oswego's win over Geneva?

Luckily we have a documented history of playing Sandburg and the teams on Sandburg's schedule. When Bolingbrook went to the SWP I likened it to joining a conference with no LWE, but 1 HF and 4 Sandburgs. Seems to have played out exactly that way. And certainly more difficult every week than anyone Providence played in its playoff run to the 5A title game.

What are you talking about the past for if bolingbrook had sandburgs current schedule they would be 3-3 losses to east and hf. And they split with montini and lwc. Im not saying sandburg is better then the brook. Just that they are not top 10. Also your obsession with providence is weird. Probably because they are 2-1 against the brook.

 

[ODERTY1]

Could be. But they get to prove it every season instead of being hyped up then losing to Cary Grove who struggles with Huntley. Did you ever get to point out where I had Loyola over ESL? Im still confused about your prior post.

Another poster had LA over ESL. Next.. Bolingbrook haven't beaten anyone in yrs. Next cg would have beaten bolingbrook. Im simply saying for yrs, all the way back in 2003 when we played them its always some hype for no reason

 

[ODERTY1]

For clarity... this conversation wasn't esl vs bolingbrook. It was a simple football fan observation. I just hear bolingbrook.. the brook... and they never are very good. Do just have a big fan base?

 

[Cross Bones]

What are you talking about the past for if bolingbrook had sandburgs current schedule they would be 3-3 losses to east and hf. And they split with montini and lwc. Im not saying sandburg is better then the brook. Just that they are not top 10. Also your obsession with providence is weird. Probably because they are 2-1 against the brook.

4-2 at worst. 20-25% chance of win against LWE, 50% against H-F. Beating LWC and Montini.

Another poster had LA over ESL. Next.. Bolingbrook haven't beaten anyone in yrs. Next cg would have beaten bolingbrook. Im simply saying for yrs, all the way back in 2003 when we played them its always some hype for no reason

So why did you address your LA/ESL comment to me

Depends on the definition of anyone. Im not sure who you've been talking to, but if someone was hyping them up in 2002 (thats when they played ESL) then that person wasnt paying attention. Look at it like this the years ESL struggles against teams like NV and Bradley and CG and Fenwick are years you woulda been booted in 8A quite early. And someone would be here in TOUTT thread asking why people are talking about ESL. But that doesnt mean they werent good, it means they went up against teams that could compete with them physically.

 

[ODERTY1]

I didn't

 

[pjjp]

I love the critics. Helps to refine the thought process and possibly see what may have been missed. Discussion is what we're here for.

Your rankings definitely generate interest and discussion. Kudos for that.

 

[chitown-irish]

4-2 at worst. 20-25% chance of win against LWE, 50% against H-F. Beating LWC and Montini.

So why did you address your LA/ESL comment to me

Depends on the definition of anyone. Im not sure who you've been talking to, but if someone was hyping them up in 2002 (thats when they played ESL) then that person wasnt paying attention. Look at it like this the years ESL struggles against teams like NV and Bradley and CG and Fenwick are years you woulda been booted in 8A quite early. And someone would be here in TOUTT thread asking why people are talking about ESL. But that doesnt mean they werent good, it means they went up against teams that could compete with them physically.

Zero chance against hf or lwe. Hf already played you and won 31-0. Your delusional.

 

[Cross Bones]

Zero chance against hf or lwe. Hf already played you and won 31-0. Your delusional.

not how probability works junior.

 

[chitown-irish]

not how probability works junior.

Your real good at hypocritical match ups. But you have trouble understanding facts the fact is they played hf and lost 31-0. The probability of lwe winning by more then that is pretty good.

 

[Cross Bones]

Your rankings definitely generate interest and discussion. Kudos for that.

People want to argue about who's better at the end of the day. I'm here for it. Edgy, Mike, and The Souc dont have time to argue with knuckleheads like us lol

 

[Cross Bones]

Your real good at hypocritical match ups. But you have trouble understanding facts the fact is they played hf and lost 31-0. The probability of lwe winning by more then that is pretty good.

Second time you mistook your for you're. You went to school with that other guy didn't you? Anyways that's still not how probability works. Did your math teachers fail as bad as your English teachers?

 

[80sRambler]

Your real good at hypocritical match ups. But you have trouble understanding facts the fact is they played hf and lost 31-0. The probability of lwe winning by more then that is pretty good.

What's a hypocritical matchup?

 

[DirtySixThirty]

Your real good at hypocritical match ups. But you have trouble understanding facts the fact is they played hf and lost 31-0. The probability of lwe winning by more then that is pretty good.

Writing standards on the internet are not very high, but I'd be embarrassed if I posted this.

 

[Cross Bones]

I agree everyone has their opinions on the computer rankings, but they're accurate enough that certain states use them for seeding their post seasons. To add another, MaxPreps has Oswego at 19 and Bolingbrook at 50. As far as other humans go MOB has Bolingbrook at 14 and Oswego at 15.

The new MOB rankings are very similar to TOUTT including exactly where Brook and Oswego are. I suppose mine has them 1 spot up because of my inclusion of ESL. He has IC and MS while I have Prospect (he dropped Prospect to account for moving Brook, Oswego, and Geneva up).

Good job MOB if you read this.

 

[chitown-irish]

Writing standards on the internet are not very high, but I'd be embarrassed if I posted this.

Not embarrassed at all. I could care less what the grammar police think of my writing capabilities. This is a message board.

 

[DirtySixThirty]

Not embarrassed at all. I could care less what the grammar police think of my writing capabilities. This is a message board.

So what's a hypocritical matchup?

 

[chitown-irish]

So what's a hypocritical matchup?

Hypothetical its called a typo

 

[jha618]

MC is still

View attachment 1457789

All ccl teams aren't created equal

 

[jha618]

Could be. But they get to prove it every season instead of being hyped up then losing to Cary Grove who struggles with Huntley. Did you ever get to point out where I had Loyola over ESL? Im still confused about your prior post.

Gotta be a different level of hate to bring up a game from 3 years ago to try and make a point.

 

[Cross Bones]

Gotta be a different level of hate to bring up a game from 3 years ago to try and make a point.

Nope. Just tapped his knuckles with the ruler.

 

[Still Missing34]

IC and Iggy or possibly LT replace Brook and Oswego. Those are definitely homer picks.

IC is a 3A team and currently is undefeated playing a CCL schedule against larger schools. Loyola is definitely back, but I feel they are getting an inflated ranking due to playing in the CCL despite the fact that they currently haven't beat a team with a winning record, so why doesn't IC get ranked using the same theory?

Teams should he ranked on their entire body of work throughout the entire season, but I feel like you have Brook and Oswego ranked based on one specific game, wins against Oswego and Geneva respectfully. FWIW neither Rivals or Massey has Oswego in their top 15 and Bolingbrook isn't in the top 20.

Is this where we get to pick and choose which Massey information we follow?

 

[Cross Bones]

Is this where we get to pick and choose which Massey information we follow?

Not sure how people take those algorithms seriously. On Maxpreps we have

48. Edwardsville (2-4)
49. St. Chuck E (3-3)
50. Richmond-Burton (6-0)
51. Maine South (5-1)
52. Bolingbrook (5-1)
53. Calhoun/Brussels (6-0)

hell, MP has Morris @ 31 and Massey has them @ 13

If the algorithm is providing this output the only thing we can do is throw it away.