What's the problem with the iowa run game ?

[the24fan]

Opposing defenses still don't fear the passing game. They won't find success running against good teams til that changes.

this is the only and correct answer.
I will add we have all seen this movie so many times. KF teams get better as we head toward October and November. Michigan and ISU have decent DL play. So have to give some credit to the defense too. They'll be fine.....little more time to gel as a OL

 

[BunchofAholes]

I am still hopeful McNeal can be that Wadley type, he just needs some more action...although Jackson may have just leap frogged him...

I looked at the RB depth and thought someone would transfer before this Fall. With Jackson's emergence and the top 5 all back next year something's got to give.

Moulton
McNeil
Phillips
X Williams
Jackson

Brevin Doll is burried, I wouldn't be surprised to see him transfer.

 

[HawksRule73]

Dotzler is having a tough time right now in the run game. In our zone scheme, the run game is only as strong as your weakest link and right now, that's Dotzler.

I don't think the staff has fully taken the training wheels off Hank in regards to allowing alot of pre-snap checks. MG was great at that and often times got us in the correct run play based on how the defense was aligned. Hopefully that comes more natural to Hank as the season progresses.

 

[WeBeHerkin]

Still have some routes short of the sticks when we need to be throwing past the sticks.

 

[WeBeHerkin]

Dotzler is having a tough time right now in the run game. In our zone scheme, the run game is only as strong as your weakest link and right now, that's Dotzler.

I don't think the staff has fully taken the training wheels off Hank in regards to allowing alot of pre-snap checks. MG was great at that and often times got us in the correct run play based on how the defense was aligned. Hopefully that comes more natural to Hank as the season progresses.

They stacked against us. Mostly man coverage.

 

[squeezebox_1]

Still have some routes short of the sticks when we need to be throwing past the sticks.

and holy **** is it frustrating.

 

[The Big Z]

We have played 2 stout defensive lines with a loaded box behind them. Dead serious, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Iowa have success on the ground this weekend. Patience.

The Michigan d line is stout. Iowa State is not. Utah ran for 205 yards and passed for 206 yards against them on Saturday. They're an ok Big 12 defense.

 

[squeezebox_1]

The Utes just ran for over 200 on ISU.

Iowa state had to sell out to protect against the pass, Devin Dampier is an elite qb with some crazy RPO and read option abilities. If teams had to account for Brown the way they do against Dampier, I bet our run game would put up better numbers.

 

[squeezebox_1]

This is something that we have to be able to audible out of, practically 9 in the box on this, we need a quick hitter, on this. Of course this was an inside hand off.

 

[The Big Z]

This is something that we have to be able to audible out of, practically 9 in the box on this, we need a quick hitter, on this. Of course this was an inside hand off.
View attachment 1459261

That's crazy. 8 guys within 4 yards of the line of scrimmage and 2 more 6 yards back. And some of you guys are calling out our running backs for having no wiggle. Talk about playing in a phone booth.

 

[BlIIlken2]

The Michigan d line is stout. Iowa State is not. Utah ran for 205 yards and passed for 206 yards against them on Saturday. They're an ok Big 12 defense.

Every given Saturday with different schemes and matchups brings different results. ISU was clearly planning the game all offseason and their DL, regardless of skill, showed up to play. Let me say the Iowa state game was not indicative of our O line play. Mich just was much better. I will reserve judgement for the next few weeks. We should have better success (I hope) against OSU.

 

[The Big Z]

Every given Saturday with different schemes and matchups brings different results. ISU was clearly planning the game all offseason and their DL, regardless of skill, showed up to play. Let me say the Iowa state game was not indicative of our O line play. Mich just was much better. I will reserve judgement for the next few weeks. We should have better success (I hope) against OSU.

Every given Saturday with different schemes and matchups brings different results. ISU was clearly planning the game all offseason and their DL, regardless of skill, showed up to play. Let me say the Iowa state game was not indicative of our O line play. Mich just was much better. I will reserve judgement for the next few weeks. We should have better success (I hope) against OSU.

I'm sorry but why do we think ISU was planning for this game all offseason? It's honestly not hard to plan for what we do. We've been doing what we do forever. The Iowa game while it means something to them is not near as important as a conference game. And whether they showed up to play shouldn't mean anything. We have better players and were a double digit favorite playing at home. Their D line just got ran over by Utah at Ames. I'm tired of the excuses for how poorly we play against Iowa State.

 

[DukeSlater]

non existent run games against the two p5 teams we've played
i wouldn't be concerned if we were even slightly below average instead of abysmal
that's despite the general thinking that both OL and RB room are top notch.

No creativity. Poor play selection. Not good blocking. Not even throwing the ball DOWN the field to force the defense to loosen up. I honestly have no idea what Lester was doing with his play calling vs. ISU and Michigan. He says the whole play book is WIDE open now, for the first time at Iowa. Yet he's only used about one page. Why? Again, I have no idea.

But throwing the ball on first down and second down at 10,15, 30 yards down the field would help A LOT.

The other missing ingredient: Misdirection. The Shanahan offense is filled with tons of misdirection, but Lester hasn't used more than two such plays vs. ISU and Michigan. Use it. It works.

So, to summarize, throw the ball down the field on early downs, and run lots and lots and lots of misdirection. Football ain't as hard as some people pretend it is.

 

[DukeSlater]

loaded boxes are mostly the issue, but I will say, Moulton doesn't present a ton of funk, he is an incredible down hill runner, as was evidence by absolutely mowing over an LB on Saturday, but we don't have a Wadley type of back.

McNeil may have some Wadley in him, but he hasn't had many chances. But all the RBs are capable IF Lester throws on early downs and uses misdirection in the running game to help out his O-line.

 

[DukeSlater]

Well you're right in that the OSU defense hasn't been anything like last year's OSU defense and they had their struggles last week against a good Illinois offense. I could also point to the struggles that Iowa had running against an ISU defense that was manhandled by Utah at home last week. Iowa achieved 3.2 yards per rush against an Iowa State D that is allowing 4.2 yards per rush. OSU is allowing only 3.5 yards per rush.

In short, don't expect Iowa to light it up on the ground this weekend.

Remember what people were saying before #3 OSU came to town in 2017? Almost everyone expected Iowa to get blown out along the lines of 55-3. I did, so I sold my tickets. But you know what happened:

IOWA -- 55
THE Ohio State -- 24

It was one of the worst losses in OSU history and, I believe, the single most lopsided loss in the storied coaching career of one Urban Meyer. FWIW. Oh, and I am NOT selling my tickets for this one.

 

[Ken58]

I'm sorry but why do we think ISU was planning for this game all offseason? It's honestly not hard to plan for what we do. We've been doing what we do forever. The Iowa game while it means something to them is not near as important as a conference game. And whether they showed up to play shouldn't mean anything. We have better players and were a double digit favorite playing at home. Their D line just got ran over by Utah at Ames. I'm tired of the excuses for how poorly we play against Iowa State.

Rivalry game and when introduced at Winter BB game thug Rogers yells eff iowa. Think about it!

 

[iahawkeyes17]

Oline isn't very good. Look big but too slow and soft.

Maybe those who know more but I was wondering same thing. We know Lauck and Pieper are legit. Are they not doing as well as expected and are the other 3 below avg?

 

[HawksRule73]

Again, we are playing with a QB who had to split reps all camp with another QB. He's only been getting full time 1 reps for a few weeks. It's obvious that they haven't given him trust/permission to change plays yet to be able to get out of run/pass plays that look dead in the water at pre-snap. My guess is they are trying to get to the bye week without completely oversaturating Hank's brain.

 

[HawksRule73]

Maybe those who know more but I was wondering same thing. We know Lauck and Pieper are legit. Are they not doing as well as expected and are the other 3 below avg?

Line isn't slow and soft. Hawk4Ever is a closet Nebraska fan.

Regarding the line, right now Dotzler isn't playing well in the run game and I'm guessing he'd be the first to admit it. The zone running game is only as good as it's weakest link. Hopefully his play picks up.

 

[UIAlumFireFighter]

I'm sorry but why do we think ISU was planning for this game all offseason? It's honestly not hard to plan for what we do. We've been doing what we do forever. The Iowa game while it means something to them is not near as important as a conference game. And whether they showed up to play shouldn't mean anything. We have better players and were a double digit favorite playing at home. Their D line just got ran over by Utah at Ames. I'm tired of the excuses for how poorly we play against Iowa State.

It's just excuses.

So many Iowa fans do this all too often: If Iowa struggles, it's because the other team was just THAT good even after said team has been beaten up by other teams...

 

[iahawkeyes17]

I looked at the RB depth and thought someone would transfer before this Fall. With Jackson's emergence and the top 5 all back next year something's got to give.

Moulton
McNeil
Phillips
X Williams
Jackson

Brevin Doll is burried, I wouldn't be surprised to see him transfer.

Doll also lost his kick return job to Jackson now too. It’s amazing that UNI didn’t even offer him. Maybe lazy to assume it but could be a good place for Doll to go and get some playing time. Uni had a big win over #3 Ill St Saturday who beat NIU week after we played them.

 

[eyesofhawk]

This is something that we have to be able to audible out of, practically 9 in the box on this, we need a quick hitter, on this. Of course this was an inside hand off.
View attachment 1459261

Where do you get this crap? Seriously curious where you got that still.

You are absolutely hilarious. Of course this was an inside handoff.

And of course it was an 8 yard gain for a FIRST DOWN. Should have audibled out, huh?

Really, Michigan had 6 in the box.

The extra players were "aligned" tightly because that's where Iowa put them. It's called a condensed set. It's the most cutting-edge offense currently sweeping across the NFL, for those looking for "modernized football". It allows receivers to get leverage in the passifier game.

#3, #10, and #0 are all Dbacks with man coverage responsibility vs Diaz, James, and RVZ.

#25 is a safety that is in the process of creeping to 6 yards off the LOS, that can man-up on Meyer. And he doesn't play the run that aggressively at the snap, and ends up meeting Moulton at 3 yards into the hole and gets run over.

Furthermore, the play design essentially created just 5 in the box from Michigan, as ANF correctly predicted that #8 (wide DE) would essentially stand in place to execute his assignment for QB vs zone read.

So it actually ended up being a really smart play to run.

This is one of the ways in which the 8 in box narrative gets way overplayed. You guys keep trying though.

I'll be back later to illustrate the main thing happening in the run game

 

[BlIIlken2]

It's just excuses.

So many Iowa fans do this all too often: If Iowa struggles, it's because the other team was just THAT good even after said team has been beaten up by other teams...

No it is not an excuse. We return good depth from the best o line in the country last year. We played a week 2 heated rival (as much as people dismiss them, a p4 school is a p4 school and they don't like experience) and a team with arguably one of the best defenses, for sure on the d line, in the country. Too many Iowa fans freak out in September and act like they've never seen a KF coached team. If our run game is still non existent through Minny I will gladly say kudos, you're right. Otherwise I will gladly reserve judgement and not freak out like some of you. 4-0...relax. The pass protection has been solid and the running game will be there.

 

[squeezebox_1]

Where do you get this crap? Seriously curious where you got that still.

You are absolutely hilarious. Of course this was an inside handoff.

And of course it was an 8 yard gain for a FIRST DOWN. Should have audibled out, huh?

Really, Michigan had 6 in the box.

The extra players were "aligned" tightly because that's where Iowa put them. It's called a condensed set. It's the most cutting-edge offense currently sweeping across the NFL, for those looking for "modernized football". It allows receivers to get leverage in the passifier game.

#3, #10, and #0 are all Dbacks with man coverage responsibility vs Diaz, James, and RVZ.

#25 is a safety that is in the process of creeping to 6 yards off the LOS, that can man-up on Meyer. And he doesn't play the run that aggressively at the snap, and ends up meeting Moulton at 3 yards into the hole and gets run over.

Furthermore, the play design essentially created just 5 in the box from Michigan, as ANF correctly predicted that #8 (wide DE) would essentially stand in place to execute his assignment for QB vs zone read.

So it actually ended up being a really smart play to run.

This is one of the ways in which the 8 in box narrative gets way overplayed. You guys keep trying though.

I'll be back later to illustrate the main thing happening in the run game

it turned out to be a nice run based on an absolute monster hit that Moulton laid on an LB, please remind me where that hit was made, oh yeah it would have been a 2 yard gain were it not for a great hit by Moulton. I swear it's too easy with how dense you are

 

[squeezebox_1]

Where do you get this crap? Seriously curious where you got that still.

You are absolutely hilarious. Of course this was an inside handoff.

And of course it was an 8 yard gain for a FIRST DOWN. Should have audibled out, huh?

Really, Michigan had 6 in the box.

The extra players were "aligned" tightly because that's where Iowa put them. It's called a condensed set. It's the most cutting-edge offense currently sweeping across the NFL, for those looking for "modernized football". It allows receivers to get leverage in the passifier game.

#3, #10, and #0 are all Dbacks with man coverage responsibility vs Diaz, James, and RVZ.

#25 is a safety that is in the process of creeping to 6 yards off the LOS, that can man-up on Meyer. And he doesn't play the run that aggressively at the snap, and ends up meeting Moulton at 3 yards into the hole and gets run over.

Furthermore, the play design essentially created just 5 in the box from Michigan, as ANF correctly predicted that #8 (wide DE) would essentially stand in place to execute his assignment for QB vs zone read.

So it actually ended up being a really smart play to run.

This is one of the ways in which the 8 in box narrative gets way overplayed. You guys keep trying though.

I'll be back later to illustrate the main thing happening in the run game

while you are at it, why don't you let us know how the next play went

 

[uihawk82]

This is something that we have to be able to audible out of, practically 9 in the box on this, we need a quick hitter, on this. Of course this was an inside hand off.
View attachment 1459261

I see 10 pretty much in the box and they all take a gap and stuff it. One of them is tracking Diaz but even a slant pass to the outside.

 

[eyesofhawk]

it turned out to be a nice run based on an absolute monster hit that Moulton laid on an LB, please remind me where that hit was made, oh yeah it would have been a 2 yard gain were it not for a great hit by Moulton. I swear it's too easy with how dense you are

View attachment 1459659

3 yards into the hole. Not 2.

3 yards is exactly what run plays are drawn up to get. From there, it's the back's job to win his 1 v 1 in the hole by making his guy miss and/or falling forward.

This play is an exact example of that. The lineman all pick up their blocks and create the hole. And the safety takes an honest approach and fits the run 3 yards into the hole.

The play went exactly how both teams would have anticipated it on paper, up until the play in the hole. Welcome to football.

If an offense could block a run for 3 yards every time, there'd never be a reason not to run.

Here, Iowa executed a well-designed play.

And again, in no way was this play an example of running into loaded boxes, which is a pretty weak narrative to begin with

 

[UIAlumFireFighter]

No it is not an excuse. We return good depth from the best o line in the country last year. We played a week 2 heated rival (as much as people dismiss them, a p4 school is a p4 school and they don't like experience) and a team with arguably one of the best defenses, for sure on the d line, in the country. Too many Iowa fans freak out in September and act like they've never seen a KF coached team. If our run game is still non existent through Minny I will gladly say kudos, you're right. Otherwise I will gladly reserve judgement and not freak out like some of you. 4-0...relax. The pass protection has been solid and the running game will be there.

Nobody, absolutely nobody, is "freaking out." We are analyzing our performance(s). Believe it or not, statistics DO tell a pretty accurate story more often than not.

Iowa State currently has the 44th best Run Defense, giving up an average of 114 yards / game.

I'm not dismissing ISU in any way but when you (Iowa) fall on the wrong side of an average, you need to take a hard look at why things went the way they went. And the way things went was a crappy 91 yards. SE MO State running back room went for 111 against ISU the week before. Southeast. Missouri. State.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

this michigan defense was great. so , too, will OSU be.

 

[Grayhair1981]

This is so true and KF is so tight and conservative, usually, against ISU (the exception is when Iowa is just so much better like 2009, 2010, 2015 and 2016 where Iowa blew them out)

2015 wasn't a blow out. Beathards legs won that game

 

[Grayhair1981]

it turned out to be a nice run based on an absolute monster hit that Moulton laid on an LB, please remind me where that hit was made, oh yeah it would have been a 2 yard gain were it not for a great hit by Moulton. I swear it's too easy with how dense you are

View attachment 1459659

Makes me throw up in my mouth but the troll is right here. Michigan played straight up with Iowa's formation. They disregarded the QB since Iowa doesn't run true read options. Michigan wasn't "selling out" on this play.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Makes me throw up in my mouth but the troll is right here. Michigan played straight up with Iowa's formation. They disregarded the QB since Iowa doesn't run true read options. Michigan wasn't "selling out" on this play.

Correct. Not selling out.

But the point about subtracting #8 from the play was that Brown actually did carry out a read option fake.

Given the read option look Iowa presented, it was #8's assignment to take away Brown keeping to the edge. If handed off, #8 treats it as someone else's assignment, and essentially just ends up standing there.

ANF talked about the exact thing in their podcast.

Did you see something different, or did I not understand you correctly?

 

[eyesofhawk]

it is bewildering watching those up the gut runs, over and over and over.

1. Not sure what's bewildering about the most fundamental play in football.

2. And always enjoy when people freak out about running up the middle, then fail to realize that the succefull play to the edge probably wouldn't have happened without the the pounds at the middle.

And fail to realize, when wearing a team down in the 2nd half, that the first half pounds up the middle made that possible.

3. Michigan had two NFL DE's that used wide alignment, and you want to run wide?

4. There's usually not a lot of mileage to get running outside vs speedy defenses anyway.

5. And what do you mean by over and over and over? Because Iowa barely used consecutive run plays of any kind vs Michigan or ISU

 

[uihawk82]

2015 wasn't a blow out. Beathards legs won that game

Well ISU didnt to crap the whole 2nd half and Iowa was marching all over them. Canzeri fumbled at about the ISU 10 yard line about mid 4th qtr so the score could have been bigger

 

[Grayhair1981]

Correct. Not selling out.

But the point about subtracting #8 from the play was that Brown actually did carry out a read option fake.

Given the read option look Iowa presented, it was #8's assignment to take away Brown keeping to the edge. If handed off, #8 treats it as someone else's assignment, and essentially just ends up standing there.

ANF talked about the exact thing in their podcast.

Did you see something different, or did I not understand you correctly?

No one responded to Brown's action. They know he is not keeping it. That Is IS what the read option is designed to do. Iowa doesn't do it because they are Iowa. It is like the Steelers doing the tush push with Rodgers 5 yards behind the action. It is one guy the defense doesn't have to account for. 11 vs 10

 

[Grayhair1981]

Well ISU didnt to crap the whole 2nd half and Iowa was marching all over them. Canzeri fumbled at about the ISU 10 yard line about mid 4th qtr so the score could have been bigger

Iowa took the lead with 2:14 left in the game. They then picked the Clowns off and scored again on a short field Not a blowout. The game was absolutely in doubt in the 4th quarter.

 

[eyesofhawk]

No one responded to Brown's action. They know he is not keeping it. That Is IS what the read option is designed to do. Iowa doesn't do it because they are Iowa. It is like the Steelers doing the tush push with Rodgers 5 yards behind the action. It is one guy the defense doesn't have to account for. 11 vs 10

#8 was there in case Brown would have kept it. That's the whole point.

Vs that look, #8 accounts for Brown keeping it, whether he keeps it or not. So handing it off essentially subtracts #8 from the play.

There are different ways to defend the read option. And this type of assignment football is how Michigan goes about it

 

[Grayhair1981]

Illinois ran the ball on OSU for two reasons:
1) they had to respect the pass
2) they had to account for the QB running.
Iowa will rush for < 75 yds against OSU unless they hit passes of more than 10 yards early.

 

[eyesofhawk]

It's tough with the tv angle but it looked like on a few called runs towards the right Moulton forced the cutback to the left instead of staying play side where there was more room.

I'm curious on what the @The ANF Podcast sees when they break down the game

It's possible you're speaking of a different look. But the ANF guys actually advocated for some cutbacks vs the wide alignment of the Michigan's DE's

 

[Gonzo_Bloor]

ISU loaded the box with 8-9 guys, Michigan has one of the better Ds in the conference. Add to that zero threat of a downfield pass game from Iowa's offense, and there you have it. Our OL and RBs aren't the problem. You can have the best 5 OL in the country but they're not going to be able to block 8-9 guys. Unless the offense can bring more of a passing threat our run game will continue to struggle against conference opponents IMO.