Guess Delta State's freshman class number

615dawg

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Jun 4, 2007
7,261
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Only 690 freshmen this year, down from 845 which was disastrous last year. Time for our state to make some tough decisions before the decisions get tougher.
 

johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
15,140
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Only 690 freshmen this year, down from 845 which was disastrous last year. Time for our state to make some tough decisions before the decisions get tougher.
How in the world can you offer 4 year degrees with under 1,000 people per class. Even for a liberal arts college, that doesn't seem particularly sustainable anymore unless they have a huge endowment to offset costs.
 

DerHntr

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Sep 18, 2007
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It’s a perfect storm for the smaller state schools. Less kids born per family causing enrollment issues, skyrocketing costs to attend, ROI being extremely suspect for a significant number of degree programs, good paying jobs available for people with technical skills/certificates and no college degree, a growth in the sentiment that college isn’t necessary for success, and newest to the list is uncertainty that 4 years of investment will result in a good job when AI could take over work. Then you add in the fact that bigger schools can at least guarantee many opportunities for a lot of fun in college.

Other than wanting to live at home and having a very clearly defined path to a job after college, I can’t imagine thinking it’s a good idea to go to many of these very small schools.
 

johnson86-1

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Aug 22, 2012
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The Delta is such a mess. I wouldn't even know where to begin.
It's not fixable in today's political environment. If you were going to try, I think it would have to start with slowly shutting off welfare (probably would start with a review of basically everybody receiving disability in the delta; I assume that is still the welfare of choice but if people are somehow able to stack SNAP, TANF, Section 8, Medicaid, etc. into a permanent lifestyle, then that too). Probalby have to offer some subsidized moving vans and relocation assistance also. Offering physically able people the opportunity to live off the government indefinitely is ultimately not very compassionate. Lot of sad lives have passed in the Delta and otherwise and when we eventually run out of other people's money, it's going to be disastrous for them.

If somebody did try to fix the delta, you'd probably see a lot of otherwise "productive" business fail when there is not a ton of welfare briefly touching the recipients before ending up in the business's pockets.
 

615dawg

All-Conference
Jun 4, 2007
7,261
4,748
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So here's some more data.

Delta State only has 1,213 total students on the Cleveland campus. 932 of their students are exclusively online.

Considering actual in person students, Delta State would be a middle of the pack 7A high school. And its in better shape than Valley and MUW.

From HBCU Gameday: https://hbcugameday.com/2026/09/21/hbcu-ad-apologizes-delta-classic-disaster/



$40 to park (and it was charged to students who live in the dorm). No concessions, Jumbotron and scoreboard didn't work. PA was in and out. Your taxpayer dollars are subsidizing Valley being a D1 school.
 

OG Goat Holder

Heisman
Sep 30, 2022
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It’s a perfect storm for the smaller state schools. Less kids born per family causing enrollment issues, skyrocketing costs to attend, ROI being extremely suspect for a significant number of degree programs, good paying jobs available for people with technical skills/certificates and no college degree, a growth in the sentiment that college isn’t necessary for success, and newest to the list is uncertainty that 4 years of investment will result in a good job when AI could take over work. Then you add in the fact that bigger schools can at least guarantee many opportunities for a lot of fun in college.

Other than wanting to live at home and having a very clearly defined path to a job after college, I can’t imagine thinking it’s a good idea to go to many of these very small schools.
Sports scholarships, that's about it.

But I don't think this is a small state school issue. This is a Delta and Mississippi issue. I can list a lot of smaller public schools that are thriving. There are NAIA schools out that are bigger than DSU, if the numbers in this thread are correct.
 
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615dawg

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I dont understand this AI slop style image.

It shows a depressing as 17 statistic while also advertising a campus event. That seems really contrary.
Why would you show such a bad stat on an announcement for a campus event?
Delta State did not put it out. The community news guy that did is also making fun of the fact that they think a carnival and magician is the way to increase enrollment.

To make matters worse on the sports in, Delta State's conference, once the powerhouse of Division II is on the brink of breaking up. They are down to just three football playing schools, which is not enough to get an auto bid to the D2 playoffs. Delta State, once a D2 powerhouse with national championships and yearly playoff appearances started the season off 0-3, being outscored 147-23 before they picked up a win over Valley last week They only have two conference games and have basically had to pick up whoever they could to fill out a schedule.
 

OG Goat Holder

Heisman
Sep 30, 2022
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It's not fixable in today's political environment. If you were going to try, I think it would have to start with slowly shutting off welfare (probably would start with a review of basically everybody receiving disability in the delta; I assume that is still the welfare of choice but if people are somehow able to stack SNAP, TANF, Section 8, Medicaid, etc. into a permanent lifestyle, then that too). Probalby have to offer some subsidized moving vans and relocation assistance also. Offering physically able people the opportunity to live off the government indefinitely is ultimately not very compassionate. Lot of sad lives have passed in the Delta and otherwise and when we eventually run out of other people's money, it's going to be disastrous for them.

If somebody did try to fix the delta, you'd probably see a lot of otherwise "productive" business fail when there is not a ton of welfare briefly touching the recipients before ending up in the business's pockets.
I don't think it's the poor people in the Delta that are causing problems at DSU. It's the lack of non-poor people, and the lack of college age kids they sire.

And what do you get if you do all the things you say? There isn't any industry coming to the Delta anytime soon. Those poor folks may just gravitate to Memphis and Jackson, but it's not going to open up some glorious economic development. Might get a few data centers around Greenville or something.
 
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johnson86-1

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Aug 22, 2012
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I don't think it's the poor people in the Delta that are causing problems at DSU. It's the lack of non-poor people, and the lack of college age kids they sire.

There isn't any industry coming to the Delta anytime soon.
I wasn't referring to fixing Delta State, just the Delta. And I don't think fixing the delta would fix Delta State, as I don't think it's realistic to think that there is going to be a population influx at a time of below replacement birth rates.

There was maybe a time where cheap labor could have attracted enough manufacturing to keep the Delta functional, but if that was possible, we missed on it by paying people to not work. The Delta has lost manufacturing jobs in places where there was supposedly double digit unemployment because they couldn't get unskilled workers. That double digit unemployment doesn't even include all the people committing ss disability fraud. That's double digit percentage of people supposedly in the work force and wanting jobs. If they had not apparently had access to government money that made just not working a viable option, would the Delta have more jobs now and more functional adults? Maybe not. Even if those people had felt like they had to work to eat, I'm not sure they would have made decent enough employees for the plants to stay.

Now I don't think there's any realistic way to avoid it depopulating. There's no real advantage there significant to overcome the workforce disadvantages. They don't have any particular natural resources besides farm land and I guess timber, which doesn't require much employment anymore. It's not particularly close to any major population centers unless I guess Memphis counts. I guess they have good access to natural gas? Decent enough highway access? There is rail; not sure how good it is. I just don't know what draw it would have to get people to invest there. You stop putting public money into DSU and Valley and it probably gets worse.
 

DoggieDaddy13

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Dec 23, 2017
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It's survival of the fittest and the best financed.

When the feds left it up to states like Mississippi to completely subsidize regional institutions this was inevitable.

It's pretty amazing Delta State continues to hang on.
 
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mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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How in the world can you offer 4 year degrees with under 1,000 people per class. Even for a liberal arts college, that doesn't seem particularly sustainable anymore unless they have a huge endowment to offset costs.
My state has 26 institutions that are real 4 year colleges which offer bachelors/masters/doctorate degrees.
- Of those 26, only 3 are public. Its crazy to me that we dont have more public institutions.
- Of those 26, 18 have fewer than 2000 students.
- Of those 26, 12 have fewer than 1500 students.

I would guess than within the next 10 years, 5 of the institutions with fewer than 1500 students will close or merge.
In one city of 60,000 people(that is a standalone metro), there is a college with 1000, a college with 1350, and a college with 1700. Two of em are Catholic even...friggin merge!

Anyways, 18 institutions dont even have half the enrollment you mention as a sort of minimum, so this all seemed applicable.
There will continue to be some colleges here that not only maintain but actually thrive, despite only having around 2000 students and an endowment that isnt big.
But I have to believe 1/3 or so of the smaller colleges(under 1500) will merge or close in the coming years.
 
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ll Martain ll

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Oct 5, 2014
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The state is eventually going to have to choose their poison. Pick the campuses that closing would have the least economic impact, and just do it. It's going to suck, but it's either pain now, or chronic pain followed by pain later. Enrollment likely isn't coming back at the little schools...just get it over with.

This needs to apply to community colleges too.
 

615dawg

All-Conference
Jun 4, 2007
7,261
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My state has 26 institutions that are real 4 year colleges which offer bachelors/masters/doctorate degrees.
- Of those 26, only 3 are public. Its crazy to me that we dont have more public institutions.
- Of those 26, 18 have fewer than 2000 students.
- Of those 26, 12 have fewer than 1500 students.

I would guess than within the next 10 years, 5 of the institutions with fewer than 1500 students will close or merge.
In one city of 60,000 people(that is a standalone metro), there is a college with 1000, a college with 1350, and a college with 1700. Two of em are Catholic even...friggin merge!

Anyways, 18 institutions dont even have half the enrollment you mention as a sort of minimum, so this all seemed applicable.
There will continue to be some colleges here that not only maintain but actually thrive, despite only having around 2000 students and an endowment that isnt big.
But I have to believe 1/3 or so of the smaller colleges(under 1500) will merge or close in the coming years.
Arizona in the house!

Amazing that UA, ASU and NAU are the only public colleges in a sizable state. It would be a good model for Mississippi.

In a perfect world, we would go to UM, MSU, USM and JSU being the only true four year colleges.

Valley is closed down completely. There is no need for a four year college in Itta Bena.
Alcorn State becomes part of MSU (Land Grant Merger)
MUW becomes part of UMMC Nursing Education
Delta State becomes Mississippi Higher Education Delta Center (the Virginia model), with all four universities offering programs in Cleveland.
 
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OG Goat Holder

Heisman
Sep 30, 2022
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If they had not apparently had access to government money that made just not working a viable option, would the Delta have more jobs now and more functional adults? Maybe not. Even if those people had felt like they had to work to eat, I'm not sure they would have made decent enough employees for the plants to stay.
To answer your question, no, it would not have moved the needle. It would take a lot more than that for "plants to stay" or ever relocate there in the first place.
 

OG Goat Holder

Heisman
Sep 30, 2022
14,079
12,931
113
Arizona in the house!

Amazing that UA, ASU and NAU are the only public colleges in a sizable state. It would be a good model for Mississippi.

In a perfect world, we would go to UM, MSU, USM and JSU being the only true four year colleges.

Valley is closed down completely. There is no need for a four year college in Itta Bena.
Alcorn State becomes part of MSU (Land Grant Merger)
MUW becomes part of UMMC Nursing Education
Delta State becomes Mississippi Higher Education Delta Center (the Virginia model), with all four universities offering programs in Cleveland.
Are these colleges losing money for the state? Because until that happens, there won't ever be any movement to close them. They may be now, I don't know, just asking the question

And as for consolidation, seems that the schools would have to introduce that for it to ever happen.
 
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615dawg

All-Conference
Jun 4, 2007
7,261
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Give the W To State, We need their nursing program. Give DSU to UM. Give JSU to USM and close the rest. Of course the politics of this State will never allow any of this to happen.
Nursing at MSU has always struck a nerve with IHL. We are the only SEC school without an on-campus nursing degree option (Georgia just added in 2024). Its one of the most popular majors and to be honest, its one of the best ROI bachelors degrees. It hurts MSU not to have a Bachelors degree in Nursing (although their is a Masters program in Meridian)
 

615dawg

All-Conference
Jun 4, 2007
7,261
4,748
113
Are these colleges losing money for the state? Because until that happens, there won't ever be any movement to close them.

And as for consolidation, seems that the schools would have to introduce that for it to ever happen.
Yes. They are losing MILLIONS.

Delta State ran a $3 million deficit on a $50 million budget
MVSU runs about the same deficit on a $18 million budget (credit to Valley, they run a tight budget)
MUW had an $18 million deficit (cost their president her job) in '22 but has tightened the belt to a $1 million deficit last year.

That little podcast from the Ole Miss fan brought this to light and I hear there will be some discussions in the legislature this coming session. Whether anything comes of it remains to be seen.
 

mstateglfr

All-American
Feb 24, 2008
16,840
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Arizona in the house!

Amazing that UA, ASU and NAU are the only public colleges in a sizable state. It would be a good model for Mississippi.

In a perfect world, we would go to UM, MSU, USM and JSU being the only true four year colleges.

Valley is closed down completely. There is no need for a four year college in Itta Bena.
Alcorn State becomes part of MSU (Land Grant Merger)
MUW becomes part of UMMC Nursing Education
Delta State becomes Mississippi Higher Education Delta Center (the Virginia model), with all four universities offering programs in Cleveland.
Iowa, not Arizona, but interesting that Arizona also only has three. Did not realize that until your post. Really intereting considering that state’s population too.
 
Jun 9, 2015
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I have always said it was a travesty that there is zero agronomic footprint at Delta State. DELTA State. DSU is right up the highway from DREC, which is one of the largest university research stations in the country. Mississippi Delta State University, Mississippi State University-Delta or MSU-Cleveland all have nice rings to them.
 

DoggieDaddy13

All-Conference
Dec 23, 2017
3,902
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JSU/UMMC - Need to be the University of Mississippi Main Campus in Jackson. Create satellite campuses in Oxford, Cleveland, and Hattiesburg - designate particular degree programs for specific locations and do not 17n duplicate.

(the football team could have 4 games in Oxford, 2 in Jackson and 1 at the Rock each year.)

MSU gets the W and the Corn and has the 82 corridor to pick up Valley and Stoneville because - AG!

The real cost in higher ed is admin, facilities, and utilities and a 17n ridiculous pension program for university presidents.

And check out how much the IHL Board budget has been for the past 25 years to run the whole thing into the ground.

No vision, no leadership. But that's been a Mississippi problem for quite some time now.
 
Nov 16, 2005
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The real solution is for IHL to be dissolved and each school have their own board of trustees that has the best interest of their universities in mind but Arkansas has a better chance of winning this year's natty than that happening in my grandchildren's lifetime.
I’ve been saying that for years. The IHL has too much control and holds back the schools from doing what’s best for them.
 
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mstateglfr

All-American
Feb 24, 2008
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Delta State did not put it out. The community news guy that did is also making fun of the fact that they think a carnival and magician is the way to increase enrollment
Is this 'community news guy' the same person who stormed the Capitol on J6, held vigil for arrested J6 folk, and has been arrested himself?
Hopefully it's a different Tatum from the Delta...

The FBI affidavit against Tatum says that he "attended multiple federal trials of January 6 defendants and was included on defense witness lists for multiple trials" and that the video he confirmed he recorded shows him "repeatedly berating and taunting uniformed police officers" as the police line collapsed.
"Don't run back, just stand your ground, take a breath, take a breath, regroup," Tatum said in the video as officers were being chased. "They're scared as s--- right now."

"Yeah, run, b------! We got you motherf------ now! Woo! Woo! Woo!" Tatum said in the video.
 
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