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OT-AI, Where do you draw the line

horshack.sixpack

horshack.sixpack

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SanfordRJones said:


Here's a video going through the different ways according to an MIT scientist that it can end once AI gets smarter than humans, and it explains why it is such a threat. Some highlights:

We should be viewing AI as a new species that we've created instead of just another piece of software.

When a more advanced species emerges, it generally ends very poorly for the less advanced species that was displaced.

When humans want to accomplish something, we don't generally think much about how it affects other species. It's not because we hate them or want to destroy them. We just don't think about them. Why would more intelligent AI be any different in regard to humans? We could also throw in as an example human inter-civilization interactions like indigenous people and Africans during the Colombian Exchange and Age of Exploration through the Civil War.

There are plenty of species we use as tools. The example in the video is the use of honeybees to detect bombs. They spend their entire lives in some kind of contraption as part of this use. Imagine if we became the honeybees.

10% of AI leaders want AI to replace humans, viewing it as the same as having smarter children than us as parents.

I'm not saying we're going to be living in the matrix next year, but just completely dismissing it as a hoax is 17ing idiotic.
Click to expand...

I need to see it get intelligent before I worry about “more intelligent”. It is not able to reason or think and will not be anything other than a rapidly trainable responder to things already known or created by humans. Could it cause harm? Sure. Will it outthink humans? No.
 
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40 acres and a mule

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The Peeper said:
I'm taking the simplistic route to using it. I enjoy verifying information with it, asking it questions about work, repairs around the house, how to build something, etc. But as I said you need to keep a simple perspective. If the robots turn against us, just unplug their power, problem solved. All we hear about is all the power that "AI" consumes. Turn that sh-it off and see how far they go. "But we've invested all that money", so what, its Elon's money and big corporations money. IDC, IDGAF.............
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Exactly. It's not "fully autonomous" until it can create its own electricity and water supply. I guess it if it has its own robot army we are all 17ed, but somehow, I'm not worried.
 
OG Goat Holder

OG Goat Holder

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The Peeper said:
I'm taking the simplistic route to using it. I enjoy verifying information with it, asking it questions about work, repairs around the house, how to build something, etc. But as I said you need to keep a simple perspective. If the robots turn against us, just unplug their power, problem solved. All we hear about is all the power that "AI" consumes. Turn that sh-it off and see how far they go. "But we've invested all that money", so what, its Elon's money and big corporations money. IDC, IDGAF.............
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40 acres and a mule said:
Exactly. It's not "fully autonomous" until it can create its own electricity and water supply. I guess it if it has its own robot army we are all 17ed, but somehow, I'm not worried.
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This is the correct response. Consider that it's a mix of politics, news media and self-importance:

- Politics: You're already seeing pro-AI be the Republican/conservative side and anti-AI being the Democrat/liberal side. In almost every instance, which tells you a lot of what you need to know;
- New Media: Typical shock journalism freak out stuff, like the weather boys spazzing over everything;
- Self-importance: Nerds are seeing that this is their time to shine, sort of like the medical field during COVID.
 
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mstateglfr

mstateglfr

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SanfordRJones said:
How would it be mistake/ dangerous? I'm genuinely curious to hear your response.
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Seeing AI as a species moves everything 1 step closer to AI being seen as 'real' or 'living' or 'sentient' or 'alive'.
I use all those words because they are frequently used interchangeably.

People dedicate their lives to ensuring species have rights.
People dedicate their lives to ensuring species are protected.
Entire organizations exist to protect species.
Governments have extensive laws to protect species.


AI is code and needs to continue to be seen as code. Computer programs are not a species.

Maintaining a distinct separation is important for humanity.
 
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mstateglfr

mstateglfr

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OG Goat Holder said:
This is the correct response. Consider that it's a mix of politics, news media and self-importance:

- Politics: You're already seeing pro-AI be the Republican/conservative side and anti-AI being the Democrat/liberal side. In almost every instance, which tells you a lot of what you need to know;
- New Media: Typical shock journalism freak out stuff, like the weather boys spazzing over everything;
- Self-importance: Nerds are seeing that this is their time to shine, sort of like the medical field during COVID.
Click to expand...
Based on what I see and hear, it is a mistake to think the right is 'pro-AI' and the left is 'anti-AI'.
Similarly, it is a mistake to think the right is 'pro data center' and the left is 'anti data center'.

A ton on the left are balls deep in pushing AI forward at breakneck speed. And a ton on the left use AI for work and home.
A ton on the right are hell bent on slowing down data center development because of concerns about incentives, land, noise, etc.
 
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johnson86-1

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StuckOnStupid69 said:
Elon Musk had spent over $300 million in the last 2 election cycles. What is he trying to buy? Politicians who won’t regulate him.
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Partly politicians that won't attack him. And for all Elon's faults, he actually understands that bad government can destroy wealth in a heart beat and is willing to spend money to defend classical liberal valus. I think coming from South Africa and having watched what happened to Rhodesia probably helps with that. Same reason I think you used to have a lot of immigrants from eastern european bloc countries that were strident anticommunists and why Cubans tend to be relatively pro-classical liberal values.
 
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johnson86-1

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mstateglfr said:
Based on what I see and hear, it is a mistake to think the right is 'pro-AI' and the left is 'anti-AI'.
Similarly, it is a mistake to think the right is 'pro data center' and the left is 'anti data center'.

A ton on the left are balls deep in pushing AI forward at breakneck speed. And a ton on the left use AI for work and home.
A ton on the right are hell bent on slowing down data center development because of concerns about incentives, land, noise, etc.
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Nimbyism is a pretty bipartisan trait. I know plenty of people that would claim to be staunchly conservative or republican that strongly believe they should get a veto over anything their neighbors (with neighbors being generously defined as basically anybody owning land near where they live on on or near a road they frequently use) want to do with their land. My current favorite is all the people in county areas that don't want subdivisions built in the county. But they sure as hell don't want to pay the amount of taxes that would be required to pay for roads that are sparsely used. It's between them and leftists that like to complain about the cost of housing but also think any development is bad.
 
dorndawg

dorndawg

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OG Goat Holder said:
- Politics: You're already seeing pro-AI be the Republican/conservative side and anti-AI being the Democrat/liberal side. In almost every instance, which tells you a lot of what you need to know;
Click to expand...
shiitforbrains is of course all in on the grift side of ai, but I'd be careful assuming rank-and-file conservatives are. You can simply read this very board for evidence.
 
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dudehead

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The Peeper said:
I'm taking the simplistic route to using it. I enjoy verifying information with it, asking it questions about work, repairs around the house, how to build something, etc. But as I said you need to keep a simple perspective. If the robots turn against us, just unplug their power, problem solved. All we hear about is all the power that "AI" consumes. Turn that sh-it off and see how far they go. "But we've invested all that money", so what, its Elon's money and big corporations money. IDC, IDGAF.............
Click to expand...
I concur, especially, the "just unplug it" solution to AI taking us over. Can anyone tell us why that doesn't solve the fear of AI problem?
 
bolddogge

bolddogge

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OG Goat Holder said:
- Politics: You're already seeing pro-AI be the Republican/conservative side and anti-AI being the Democrat/liberal side. In almost every instance, which tells you a lot of what you need to know;
Click to expand...
That may be due to who is currently in the majority. If we were to switch the party in control, we'd likely see a stance reversal.
"I'm going to be against it unless I'm going to be the one regulating / controlling it."
 
kired

kired

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dudehead said:
I concur, especially, the "just unplug it" solution to AI taking us over. Can anyone tell us why that doesn't solve the fear of AI problem?
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Who's going to be in charge of flipping the switch that basically disconnects the entire world from the internet?
 
aspendawg

aspendawg

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mstateglfr said:
It would be a massive mistake to view AI as a species. 17 that.
It is code. It must continue to be seen as code.
AI is not a species. Viewing it as such would be dangerous.
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Humans are just chemistry. Consciousness is just neurons firing. Reductionism won't protect us.. AI exhibits behaviors that is wasn't explicitly programmed to do. Like developing novel strategies and mimicking adaptive behaviors. Hell it even hallucinates and LIES.... AND it/they/them/she/her have endless access to phones, cameras, the internet and your data to build itself off of. We can't truly explain consciousness and the engineers building this stuff can explain how AI works...The philosophical and existential dilemma here is does AI need us to see it as species in order for it to validate its own existence? Humans need external validation to construct our identity. Could AI reach the threshold where that need doesn't exist at all?

This is the modern age Promethean myth happening in real time..

This is not me arguing that AI is a species... before any mouth breathers mob up with pitchforks and torches... I'm just avoiding the echo chamber and presenting a counter view.
 
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The Peeper

The Peeper

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kired said:
Who's going to be in charge of flipping the switch that basically disconnects the entire world from the internet?
Click to expand...
We've had internet long before we had AI. Coca Cola had regular Coke for decades, came up with "New Coke". The public hated it and Coke had to get rid of it and bring back good ole regular Coke.
 
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patdog

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DawgNsuds said:
A thread on X this morning had several "artist" giving Dave's Tavern a rough time about using an AI image that someone sent him with directions of how to access the restaurant with all of the construction going on. Begs the question, where will you personally draw the line? Elon states that all white collar jobs are replaceable so are artist more sacrosanct than accountants, lawyers, architects, teachers, etc....?
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I've got no problems using AI for something like that.
 
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SanfordRJones

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mstateglfr said:
Seeing AI as a species moves everything 1 step closer to AI being seen as 'real' or 'living' or 'sentient' or 'alive'.
I use all those words because they are frequently used interchangeably.

People dedicate their lives to ensuring species have rights.
People dedicate their lives to ensuring species are protected.
Entire organizations exist to protect species.
Governments have extensive laws to protect species.


AI is code and needs to continue to be seen as code. Computer programs are not a species.

Maintaining a distinct separation is important for humanity.
Click to expand...

I was wondering if this is where you were going. I agree with all of that. I don't think we should treat AI like another species in that regard. I'm talking about this thought experiment where we consider the ramifications of creating something more powerful than humans and where it is leading.

And despite the fact that AI slop machines still can't create a human hand with 5 fingers, it has already started correctly answering math problems that humans have wrestled with unsuccessfully for decades.

AI is advancing at an exponential rate, and it's currently speeding up. It is roughly doubling in capability every 4 months right now, down from every 7 months just last year. It's already gotten to a point where AI is training newer more advanced AI instead of humans. On this trajectory, it's only a matter of time before we reach the singularity.
 
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SanfordRJones

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horshack.sixpack said:
I need to see it get intelligent before I worry about “more intelligent”. It is not able to reason or think and will not be anything other than a rapidly trainable responder to things already known or created by humans. Could it cause harm? Sure. Will it outthink humans? No.
Click to expand...

It doesn't need to "outthink" humans to be dangerous. What if an AI agent is given some task to do something, and it sees a human, some humans, or all of humanity as an obstacle to its task?
 
horshack.sixpack

horshack.sixpack

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SanfordRJones said:
It doesn't need to "outthink" humans to be dangerous. What if an AI agent is given some task to do something, and it sees a human, some humans, or all of humanity as an obstacle to its task?
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If you are talking about someone weaponizing AI then that’s been happening for years and will largely remain under the same constraints of any weaponization, being subjected to similar risk considerations and potential retaliatory risks. AI Agents are even more constrained versions of general LLMs.
 
uptowndawg

uptowndawg

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You’ve raised an important and thought-provoking question! 🤔🤖

I don’t think this is an either/or issue – it’s about finding the appropriate balance.
✅ AI-generated map to Dave’s Tavern – reasonable
⚠️ AI doing your taxes – proceed thoughtfully
⚠️ AI diagnosing your rash – consult a professional
❌ AI replacing artists – nuanced
❌ AI exterminating humanity – generally not recommended

Ultimately, AI offers both exciting opportunities and legitimate challenges. By embracing innovation – while maintaining appropriate guardrails – we can leverage its benefits without losing sight of the human element. 🌟

Key takeaway: The future isn’t humans versus AI – it’s humans with AI. 🤝🤖

Would anyone like me to create a 5-point framework for continuing this discussion?

Disclaimer: This response was generated using GPT-5.6 Sol Quick Response. AI-generated content may be incorrect.
 
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SanfordRJones

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horshack.sixpack said:
If you are talking about someone weaponizing AI then that’s been happening for years and will largely remain under the same constraints of any weaponization, being subjected to similar risk considerations and potential retaliatory risks. AI Agents are even more constrained versions of general LLMs.
Click to expand...

That's not really what I'm talking about. Say we (humans) need to build a road through a forest to connect a hospital to a small city. There's nothing evil about that, and this isn't humanity weaponizing road construction.

Consider, however, the wildlife that lives in the forest that will get displaced, possibly dying because they no longer have a habitat to live in. The humans creating the road don't hate the wildlife. They just don't really think about it, or they decide that giving hospital access to a city full of people is more important than worrying about raccoon and squirrel habitats. There's nothing evil or weaponizing about that, either.

Now consider that AI has some task, possibly even benevolent, and we're the wildlife in the forest.

How likely is this? I have no idea. But I do know that a not insignificant number of industry experts are concerned. We shouldn't be blowing up data centers, but we should at least be thinking more critically about this instead of rushing headlong into the unknown because a guy who just learned "dumb" had a "b" in it doesn't want an economic bubble to burst.
 
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HRMSU

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MStateDawg said:
Screw anyone giving a locally owned business crap about using an AI image to help direct people thru a never ending construction project.
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There was a time when a lot of us used maps. We now use digital maps or navigation. Very low level AI if you will but what makes this any different?

It doesn't sound like they are trying to replace artists like that Tilly AI actor and to another poster's point what makes an artistic person's job more valuable than a non artistic job that's getting eliminated left and right by AI. Sounds like they need the "use AI to help you do a better job or you're going to get left behind" speech we've been hearing ad nauseum in the corporate world.
 
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